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waisyarzi
04-02-2003, 09:31 PM
Yep, sorry about my last post. It was really unorganized and everything but anyway. I will pick up one or two of the points from it:

Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person, organisation or government against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for Ideological or political reasons. - The dictionary

So is bush guilty of terrorism according to the dictionary? Yep, he is a terrorist. Hopefully there is a poster in Iraq that says President George Walker Bush wanted dead or alive. Reward $15mil

There is another point I want to talk about. According to the UN laws a country that attacks another country without being provoked should have sanctions on it. Is anyone making sanctions against the US? No. What is the point of the UN when even its members dont respect their laws.

Now the US is meant to bring worldwide peace as Bush said. However the US is the most millitaristicaly active country in the world. LOL!

There was an internation investigation into the Bin Ladin video, which confirmed that the video was made a long time before sept 11. It was when america withdrew their troops from Kuwait! The media totally ignored it (or were they forced to do so?)

The Echleon snooping system. Yep its real. Do some research on google on it and you will see its real. Confirmed by an european report. If you dont know what it is I recommend you find out!

I believe the war against lets say Iraq have been planned for a decade or so. I did a bit of research on modern wars and there was a bit that said: There is a need for something major to happen that will change the oppinion of the human mind to have revenge. September 11th was a perfect opportunity for the war on 'terror' to start. After something bad happenes to humans they want revenge. The only way to have revenge in this situation is to have a war and kill thousands of innocents like the americans did. 7000 taliban executed and their excuse was that they were making air holes in the trucks and no they werent shooting the top of the containers. They were shooting the middle.

So take this as a new post and a mod plz delete my last one cause I admit that was particulary shit!

Bender
04-02-2003, 10:26 PM
I can't delete it, because other people already replied on it.

I closed it however, and left a link to this topic. :)

zapjb
04-02-2003, 11:08 PM
It's basically democracies or republics vs royalities & dictatorships. England is not a true royality, they're more like a republic. The royalities & the dictators lie to their poor, poverty stricken & in some cases starving people. The kings & dictators blame the social inequities in their own countries on the USA & the west. They have to blame their countries problems on the west. Otherwise their problems are within. Not good if you're a dictator or a king. If their people knew the truth, which is that their leaders are greedy selfish pigs. They would overthrow or revolt against the dictators & kings. The pigs live in palaces. And unlike the west one has to be related or connected to the regime to prosper. Hard work in these countries does not payoff. If the west would get off the oil tit of the mideast, they could let it rot. And it would.

namzuf9
04-02-2003, 11:24 PM
"As popular war advances, peace is closer"
War is always going to be a fact of life. Due to the arrogant nature of humanity the're will always be someone claiming what they are doing is for the good of the world. Ask saddam, ask Hilter, ask bush or indeed, ask Tony Blair.
War will continue no matter what anyone says or does.
War is humanitys way.
No two countries will ever agree on anything, neither will two different religions. It is life- deal with it.
Nothing will ever change, so pick a side and hope you're right.
Facts and figure are always affected by perspective-it is the human way. Who is to say what is right or wrong? One man's poison is anothers pleasure.
This is the way that life has been lived since the dawn of time. Stop the protesting and enjoy life before a war hits you and the joy of life is removed. And remember; a war is not always on an international level. Look around you; do you see anyone fighting? Do you see anyone dying? I do; daily. Read a newspaper-it happens everyday.

@Bender, btw did you notice that the robot in your avatar is performing a traditional nazi salute?

Spindulik
04-03-2003, 12:51 AM
Definition of TERRORISM (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=terrorism)

Definition of TERROR (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=terror)

I am quite sure that Saddam and his Elite army are innocent victims. A regime that has treated their people with great care and respect. A leader who has several palaces, with golden toilets while children suffer and die. While the people pretend to adore Saddam, only in fear of anything else. A Saddam who wanted to clean out the Kurds, like Hitler wanted to diminish the Jews.


Bush has not terrorized Iraq. Saddam has. If you reply, "bombing is terrorism". The answer is no. If you say, "The Elite Regime threatens civillians, by forcing women and children as human shields. Tell men to go on a suicide mission, or I will kill your family." Then I say THAT is terrorism.

Bender
04-03-2003, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by namzuf9@3 April 2003 - 00:24
@Bender, btw did you notice that the robot in your avatar is performing a traditional nazi salute?
I was waiting for somebody to say that. :D

Crack_Man made this avatar from Robotbastard, a nice film that you can download at http://www.robotbastard.com/.

It looks a bit like a Nazi salute, but having seen the film I'm sure the makers didn't mean that, and I don't either.
By the way, when Robotbastard salutes, he says: "My body for the cause" instead of "Sieg heil" or "Heil Hitler", which speaks for him. :lol:
I hope you're not offended by it. :)

Dogbert
04-03-2003, 01:41 AM
:blink: A Note To Whom It Should Concern...

Some folks priorities are all screwed up. The leadership, if that is what you call it, of Iraq are the true satans of the land. Check the facts and find out how their own people faired under that government (dictatorship). If it's so wonderful why are the Iraq people fleeing? Can the U. S. and others fix what needs to be fixed? Think about it. What if the U. S. did not get involved..... perhaps the following copied document is really meaningful. Just read it and then think about it.....

I propose the following 10 point noninterference plan which should make the world happy!

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines and leave them on their own.
They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself, don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's "BACK HOME, BABY!"

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise.
This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides' most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if any anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

Spindulik
04-03-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@3 April 2003 - 02:41
:blink: A Note To Whom It Should Concern...

    Some folks priorities are all screwed up.  The leadership, if that is what you call it, of Iraq are the true satans of the land.  Check the facts and find out how their own people faired under that government (dictatorship).  If it's so wonderful why are the Iraq people fleeing?  Can the U. S. and others fix what needs to be fixed?  Think about it.  What if the U. S. did not get involved..... perhaps the following copied document is really meaningful.  Just read it and then think about it.....

I propose the following 10 point noninterference plan which should make the world happy!

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present.  You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them 'good old boys'.  We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines and leave them on their own.
They don't want us there.  We would station troops at our borders.  No more sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave.  We'll give them a free trip home.  After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are.  France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit.  No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in.  If you don't like it there, change it yourself, don't hide here.  Asylum would not ever be available to anyone.

5) No "students" over age 21.  The older ones are the bombers.  If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's "BACK HOME, BABY!"

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise.
This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil.  If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere".  They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need.  Besides' most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army.  The people who need it most get very little, if any anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place.  We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here.  Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school.  That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
Wow Dogert! That was intense, and TRUE. A lot of people are free loading on America. You may also add that %80 of the crap we buy in our stores are made in other countries. Even the stores are owned in other countries. I can't even find a decent pair of heavy duty American made work boots, for heavy construction jobsites anymore. You know, a lot of people come to America's schools and leave. I know one family who came to America, opened a downtown restaurant for a few years, made a ton of money and left the country, without paying a penny in taxes! How's that for you? I pay over $17,000 (after deductions) a year in taxes, and I don't make a whole lot for myself either, enough to buy a new car every year. Then these people rip us off.

My German brother-in-law married my sister, so he can stay in this country. How about that?

A lot of American Iraqis, the ones who fled during the "late Saddam's regime", can tell you the horrors of the life over there. I welcome these people to the USA. They deserve free life. You should hear their stories.

MagicNakor
04-03-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by namzuf9@3 April 2003 - 00:24
@Bender, btw did you notice that the robot in your avatar is performing a traditional nazi salute?
Or the salute of the Roman army. :D

:ninja:

Dogbert
04-03-2003, 03:03 AM
:blink: Thanks for the note Spindulik.

The USA isn't perfect by any accounts. As a native born American my point of view will show through. Early on I thought that oil was the basis for the war. Research shows what a tyrant the Iraq government really is. What would happen if U. S. were to have taken no action against this demon? How long until other freedom loving countries would come under attack. I am so thankful to live in these United States. Even in it's imperfect condition. Somewhere, someone has to take a stand against evil. It is only fitting that we support our troops who are in harms way. I do not agree with our president on many issues. However, there is always a however, I do support him in this war. He is NOT the terrorist.

In times of trouble what nation provides help? Famine. Flood. Disease. Disasters. Home. Food. Compassion. Love. Care.

Pictures of American and British troops carrying injured Iraq children to be provided with first aid care is the kind of picture that tells the whole world what kind of people we are. No other words need to be said. Just a picture of compassionate people liberating fellow man.

Best Wishes to All for peaceful world.

zapjb
04-03-2003, 03:37 AM
Nobody got my point. Royalties & dictatorships are the problem. And the bad news is Saddam & the Iraqi regime are only 1% of the problem. For every penny that Saddam gives to support terrorists, the royalties of the region give (oil money) at least a dollar. For every terrorist that gets training & or idealogy in Iraq at least a 100 terrorists are given aid & comfort in surrounding royalties. And the possible solutions to the problem as I see it are: 1)democracies throughout the region [I hope the US is attempting this now] 2)genocide [not acceptable] & 3)giving up oil & finding alternative fuels [not gonna happen given the greed factor].

j2k4
04-03-2003, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@3 April 2003 - 02:41
:blink: A Note To Whom It Should Concern...

Some folks priorities are all screwed up. The leadership, if that is what you call it, of Iraq are the true satans of the land. Check the facts and find out how their own people faired under that government (dictatorship). If it's so wonderful why are the Iraq people fleeing? Can the U. S. and others fix what needs to be fixed? Think about it. What if the U. S. did not get involved..... perhaps the following copied document is really meaningful. Just read it and then think about it.....

I propose the following 10 point noninterference plan which should make the world happy!

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines and leave them on their own.
They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself, don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's "BACK HOME, BABY!"

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise.
This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides' most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if any anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
I propose immediate enactment!!!

Can you imagine what the reaction would be if Bush said this in a joking manner, ala Reagan's "The bombing starts in five minutes....." statement?
One of two responses: Total cacaphony or total silence.

kAb
04-03-2003, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@2 April 2003 - 17:41
:blink: A Note To Whom It Should Concern...

Some folks priorities are all screwed up. The leadership, if that is what you call it, of Iraq are the true satans of the land. Check the facts and find out how their own people faired under that government (dictatorship). If it's so wonderful why are the Iraq people fleeing? Can the U. S. and others fix what needs to be fixed? Think about it. What if the U. S. did not get involved..... perhaps the following copied document is really meaningful. Just read it and then think about it.....

I propose the following 10 point noninterference plan which should make the world happy!

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines and leave them on their own.
They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself, don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's "BACK HOME, BABY!"

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise.
This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides' most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if any anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
i couldn't tell if that was highly sarcastic or highly intelligent :huh:

j2k4
04-03-2003, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by kAb@3 April 2003 - 06:34
i couldn't tell if that was highly sarcastic or highly intelligent :huh:
It was both; a terrific example of demonstrating absurdity through the rapier-like use of same-one of the most salient I've seen.

namzuf9
04-03-2003, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Bender@3 April 2003 - 01:24
I hope you're not offended by it. :)
You could'nt if you tried :D

Z
04-03-2003, 06:14 AM
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious. which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?

waisyarzi
04-03-2003, 03:38 PM
:blink: A Note To Whom It Should Concern...

Some folks priorities are all screwed up. The leadership, if that is what you call it, of Iraq are the true satans of the land. Check the facts and find out how their own people faired under that government (dictatorship). If it's so wonderful why are the Iraq people fleeing? Can the U. S. and others fix what needs to be fixed? Think about it. What if the U. S. did not get involved..... perhaps the following copied document is really meaningful. Just read it and then think about it.....

I propose the following 10 point noninterference plan which should make the world happy!

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines and leave them on their own.
They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself, don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's "BACK HOME, BABY!"

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise.
This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides' most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if any anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

This is incredibly stupid! What my point is that the US should not militarily interfere with other countries. As one of the richest countries in the world it is their responsibility to help out the poorer ones or they will be seen as some incredibly greedy pigs. The point about illigal alins lol well that was more than stupid. You mean you can kill millions of non american ppl all over the world and then not let anyone come to your country? And why is it that america can kill ppl, test their weapons bla bla bla against other much poorer countries but when only 5k ppl die in america it seems the end of the world? There would be no bombings if america hadnt been interfering themselves. Take USSR agains Afghanistan for example. Russia was advancing on afghanistan to inforce communism there and what did the stupid americans do? They gave the afghans weapons. Around a million afghans and 15,000 russians died because of those weapons. Bin Ladin supported the mujahideen in afghanistan but afterwards america went on the interfere with iraq and kuwait and by invading kuwait they did something to bin ladin i cant really remmember. After this bin ladin was enraged and he made al qaeda. So you see americans bring everything to themselves. By having war with iraq i am sure they will make another stupid mistake and lots of americans will die because of it. The UN inspections only needed 1 month longer but could they wait? Noooo. Now then why is bush like this? I believe he wants to be put in history as a hero for america by destroying all the terrorist cells but this will never happen. The more muslims they kill the more will go on the path of terrorism. Being muslim myself I see this all over my community. Lots of ppl are considering becoming part of al qaeda because americans wont leave us alone. Also as an afghan I want to say that afghans are not grateful to americans at all. We are now ruled by the nothern allience a group of rapists nad pirates. I dont see any reconstruction at all. Also america thank you for your money support. Out of all the countries you have killed most of us and given us the least so thank you fucking america.

ruhroh
04-03-2003, 03:49 PM
This is incredibly stupid! What my point is that the US should not militarily interfere with other countries. As one of the richest countries in the world it is their responsibility to help out the poorer ones or they will be seen as some incredibly greedy pigs. The point about illigal alins lol well that was more than stupid. You mean you can kill millions of non american ppl all over the world and then not let anyone come to your country? And why is it that america can kill ppl, test their weapons bla bla bla against other much poorer countries but when only 5k ppl die in america it seems the end of the world? There would be no bombings if america hadnt been interfering themselves. Take USSR agains Afghanistan for example. Russia was advancing on afghanistan to inforce communism there and what did the stupid americans do? They gave the afghans weapons. Around a million afghans and 15,000 russians died because of those weapons. Bin Ladin supported the mujahideen in afghanistan but afterwards america went on the interfere with iraq and kuwait and by invading kuwait they did something to bin ladin i cant really remmember. After this bin ladin was enraged and he made al qaeda. So you see americans bring everything to themselves. By having war with iraq i am sure they will make another stupid mistake and lots of americans will die because of it. The UN inspections only needed 1 month longer but could they wait? Noooo. Now then why is bush like this? I believe he wants to be put in history as a hero for america by destroying all the terrorist cells but this will never happen. The more muslims they kill the more will go on the path of terrorism. Being muslim myself I see this all over my community. Lots of ppl are considering becoming part of al qaeda because americans wont leave us alone. Also as an afghan I want to say that afghans are not grateful to americans at all. We are now ruled by the nothern allience a group of rapists nad pirates. I dont see any reconstruction at all. Also america thank you for your money support. Out of all the countries you have killed most of us and given us the least so thank you fucking america.

Oh my.....watch this guy..he sounds like a terrorist in the making.And for all of you people out there that like to put the U.S. down :P


edit: fixed quote tags

Rat Faced
04-03-2003, 04:55 PM
Also as an afghan I want to say that afghans are not grateful to americans at all. We are now ruled by the nothern allience a group of rapists nad pirates. I dont see any reconstruction at all. Also america thank you for your money support. Out of all the countries you have killed most of us and given us the least so thank you fucking america.


Much as I disagree with a lot of what this guy has said (in the original 'America' post)......I've been saying this bit for about 6 months now.

All the US people that think they have 'liberated' Afganistan, think again, its only around the capital where there is any lipservice to 'Law and Order'. The WarLords have more power than ever now.

The majority of the people are in a worse state than when US/UK went in, and despite all the promises of the west about not leaving them in the lurch, most of the Money that has been 'Invested' in Afganistan is for that Oil Pipeline that the Taliban didnt want built.


Call me cynical if you like.........

dwightfry
04-03-2003, 05:03 PM
EDIT: Ignore this post ;)

namzuf9
04-04-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Z@3 April 2003 - 06:14
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious. which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?
Is there such thing as true democracy? Can anyone tell me that they have any control over the desicions made by their goverment?

Rat Faced
04-04-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by namzuf9+4 April 2003 - 23:19--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (namzuf9 @ 4 April 2003 - 23:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Z@3 April 2003 - 06:14
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious.&nbsp; which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?
Is there such thing as true democracy? Can anyone tell me that they have any control over the desicions made by their goverment? [/b][/quote]
I&#39;ll hazard a guess at this.....


Any Democratic country......in the last 6 months before an election, otherwise forget it.

Z
04-05-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by namzuf9+4 April 2003 - 18:19--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (namzuf9 @ 4 April 2003 - 18:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Z@3 April 2003 - 06:14
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious. which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?
Is there such thing as true democracy? Can anyone tell me that they have any control over the desicions made by their goverment? [/b][/quote]
theres no true democracy. we vote for reps. and we also have a pop. vote. and look who won&#33;
the closest man has come was ancient greece, even though they women were discriminated against.

puremindmatters
04-05-2003, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Z+5 April 2003 - 02:20--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Z @ 5 April 2003 - 02:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -namzuf9@4 April 2003 - 18:19
<!--QuoteBegin--Z@3 April 2003 - 06:14
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious. which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?
Is there such thing as true democracy? Can anyone tell me that they have any control over the desicions made by their goverment?
theres no true democracy. we vote for reps. and we also have a pop. vote. and look who won&#33;
the closest man has come was ancient greece, even though they women were discriminated against. [/b][/quote]
The greek slaves might have disagreed with your view.

Dogbert
04-05-2003, 08:41 AM
:o ....Re: waisyarzi

The evidence builds. Check sources for news updates. Sadams stash is now unfolding before the eyes of the world. The Satan did indeed have "weapons of mass destruction", i.e. chemical, etc. The embedded reporters video reveals all.

Perhaps freedom loving peoples should unite and otherthrow their own demonistic governments.

Mr. Waisyarzi and others of his kind should lead the way. Be examples of "How To Save My Own Country Without Help From The U.S.A."

Then maybe I could really receive a much needed tax break thanks to these self-appointed freedom fighters. My tax dollars would stay in the U.S.A. Maybe my favorite pot-hole in the highway would get repaired&#33;

Now, can everyone say, "Hurray for the U.S.A."

MagicNakor
04-05-2003, 10:51 AM
"The Satan?" :huh:

As for saying "Hurray for the U.S.A.," no thanks. <_<

:ninja:

Rat Faced
04-06-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@5 April 2003 - 04:41
:o ....Re: waisyarzi

The evidence builds. Check sources for news updates. Sadams stash is now unfolding before the eyes of the world. The Satan did indeed have "weapons of mass destruction", i.e. chemical, etc. The embedded reporters video reveals all.

Perhaps freedom loving peoples should unite and otherthrow their own demonistic governments.

Mr. Waisyarzi and others of his kind should lead the way. Be examples of "How To Save My Own Country Without Help From The U.S.A."

Then maybe I could really receive a much needed tax break thanks to these self-appointed freedom fighters. My tax dollars would stay in the U.S.A. Maybe my favorite pot-hole in the highway would get repaired&#33;

Now, can everyone say, "Hurray for the U.S.A."
Can you give me a link?

So far every &#39;chemical stash&#39; that ive heard, of has turned out to be harmless. I may not have come across the ones you refer to....Ive been giving the news a miss for last couple of days, its a bit depressing.

Last I heard was:

They found &#39;vials&#39; and Powder which they reported as Cianide etc. They found &#39;mustard gas&#39; ....they forgot to give as much airtime to the results of the analysis...which was...&#39;No they werent, we were wrong&#39;

They also found a &#39;chemical factory&#39;, that turned out to be a long disused military barracks that may have had chemicals 15 years ago....


Considering the coalition now controls most of the Country....Im still awaiting all these WMD that the USA/UK knew were there.

Dogbert
04-06-2003, 09:29 AM
A Link, a link,
a link to think&#33;

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=2514377 (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2514377)

Those Iraq folks really know how to treat there own people&#33;

Dogbert
04-06-2003, 09:46 AM
Another link for up-to-date infor about the war is ...

http://216.134.209.67/~command/

Check it out&#33; :ph34r:

Z
04-06-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by puremindmatters+4 April 2003 - 16:53--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (puremindmatters @ 4 April 2003 - 16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -Z@5 April 2003 - 02:20

Originally posted by -namzuf9@4 April 2003 - 18:19
<!--QuoteBegin--Z@3 April 2003 - 06:14
ok , there is always going to be war like someone stated, and there is no perfect government. that is obvious. which one works best for the people? we think democracy, but is it? can the US even be called a democracy, or is it all based on money?
Is there such thing as true democracy? Can anyone tell me that they have any control over the desicions made by their goverment?
theres no true democracy. we vote for reps. and we also have a pop. vote. and look who won&#33;
the closest man has come was ancient greece, even though they women were discriminated against.
The greek slaves might have disagreed with your view. [/b][/quote]
might have. ;) :P

junkyardking
04-06-2003, 03:08 PM
Americans wonder why alot people in the world including western counrtys dont like what there Government/People do and the ignorance displayed on this board is an example of this.

For Instance Dogbert said


1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them &#39;good old boys&#39;. We will never "interfere" again.



It&#39;s Funny how you dont metion the "Interference" that the US did in Iran where a democartic Government was overthrown and brutal Despot(Shah) was put into power all thanks to the C.I.A. and people have got the nerve to blame Islam.
What About Chilie another Democratic Government to be overthrown and a Brutal Military dictactor put in place.

Cambodia, Vietnam, and Indoenesia to name a few.

That "interference" as you put it has cost the lives of tens of millions, but it&#39;s okay your in your nice comforty bed.

And this interference has not stopped the US is now involved in Columbia

Here&#39;s an other by Spindulik



Wow Dogert&#33; That was intense, and TRUE. A lot of people are free loading on America. You may also add that %80 of the crap we buy in our stores are made in other countries. Even the stores are owned in other countries. I can&#39;t even find a decent pair of heavy duty American made work boots, for heavy construction jobsites anymore. You know, a lot of people come to America&#39;s schools and leave. I know one family who came to America, opened a downtown restaurant for a few years, made a ton of money and left the country, without paying a penny in taxes&#33; How&#39;s that for you? I pay over &#036;17,000 (after deductions) a year in taxes, and I don&#39;t make a whole lot for myself either, enough to buy a new car every year. Then these people rip us off.

My German brother-in-law married my sister, so he can stay in this country. How about that?

A lot of American Iraqis, the ones who fled during the "late Saddam&#39;s regime", can tell you the horrors of the life over there. I welcome these people to the USA. They deserve free life. You should hear their stories.

That crap you buy is also the same as in Australia mostly From China(or in your case Mexico) and it&#39;s off the back of workers who are poorly paid and have little or no conditions which Multinationals corporations make huge profits from.

Funny thing he picks on "these people", but i would suggest that the large majority of the "freeloaders"
in America are Americans, or dont we remember Enron or Worldcom funny how short some peoples memorys are.
Do you really think that Rich People in America pay tax?lol :lol: :lol:



Some people have also tried to use human rights as the reason for war , but you think your goverment Fights wars for human rights <_< , just look at what i already said, The US fights wars when it&#39;s in there interest, if your looking for humans rights reasons for war why dont the US go to War with China.

You think America&#39;s a Democracy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

More people in the US watched the superbowl than voted&#33;

Rat Faced
04-06-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Dogbert@6 April 2003 - 05:29
A Link, a link,
a link to think&#33;

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=2514377 (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2514377)

Those Iraq folks really know how to treat there own people&#33;
So, in other words...No, you dont have a link re: WMD.

Instead you post a link to 200 bodies found (dead a number of years) claimed to be the bodies of Iraqi Soldiers returned by Iran at the start of March for re-patriation and burial by the relatives.

The link in your following post includes a Statement by Iran backing up the Iraqi claim.

That following link also includes a Q&A session where the question was asked re: have any WMD been found.....to which the answer was basically......"none yet"...although they have already searched some locations where they previously "knew" had them...


Thanks Dogbert, nice anti war couple of posts there ;)

dwightfry
04-06-2003, 06:27 PM
Cambodia, Vietnam, and Indoenesia to name a few.


Ummm.....I don&#39;t know about Caombodia and Indonesia, But in Vietnam, the Communists from the south were trying to take over the Democracy of the north. We came in to try to stop the communists, we didn&#39;t attack a democratic country. :blink:

Dogbert
04-06-2003, 08:51 PM
OOOOOOOOOOOhhh Reallllllllllllly&#33; The U.S. is an oil sucking nation. NOW, give us your oil or we&#39;ll bomb you to smitherines&#33;&#33;&#33;

Just give us the OIL. Never mind what you do to your own people. It&#39;s ok to cut their tongues out. It&#39;s ok to execute them because they comb their hair different than you. Nah, everything is okay. Just give us the oil. Ok, ok, we&#39;ll pay you for it. Just don&#39;t let us find out what a terrible monster you really are. How you gassed your own people. Don&#39;t let it be know how you have put FEAR in everyone&#39;s heart. How you kill your people has to be your big secret.

Ooops&#33; I think their big secret is out&#33; The benevolent dictator is not so benevolent. Iraqian leadership and others of their ilk should rot in HELL forever.

And to all of you terrorists reading this.....LOOK OUT....YOU ARE AN ENDANGER SPECIES&#33; We&#39;ll bomb your f&#39;n ass next&#33;

freeksho
04-07-2003, 02:15 AM
yeah saddams a swell guy hmmm lets see rape mothers and daughters in front of husbands and fathers, tortures their own soccer team if they dont play up to his standards gasses his own people { oh sorry they were from a different tribe} and you douche bags have the nerve to call bush " hitler" pick up a book you morons <_<

MagicNakor
04-07-2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by dwightfry@6 April 2003 - 15:27
Ummm.....I don&#39;t know about Caombodia and Indonesia, But in Vietnam, the Communists from the south were trying to take over the Democracy of the north. We came in to try to stop the communists, we didn&#39;t attack a democratic country. :blink:
Actually, North Vietnam was Communist, South Vietnam was a decmocracy. Saigon was renamed into Ho Chi Minh City. That was more a proxy fight between the former Soviet Union and America, anyway. I think the USSR won that one.

:ninja:

ne1GotZardoz
04-07-2003, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor+6 April 2003 - 18:24--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MagicNakor @ 6 April 2003 - 18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--dwightfry@6 April 2003 - 15:27
Ummm.....I don&#39;t know about Caombodia and Indonesia, But in Vietnam, the Communists from the south were trying to take over the Democracy of the north. We came in to try to stop the communists, we didn&#39;t attack a democratic country.&nbsp; :blink:
Actually, North Vietnam was Communist, South Vietnam was a decmocracy. Saigon was renamed into Ho Chi Minh City. That was more a proxy fight between the former Soviet Union and America, anyway. I think the USSR won that one.

:ninja: [/b][/quote]
Magick, He flunked geography.
Most people fall asleep in geography anyway. :)

At least he halfway paid attention in history. :rolleyes:

Stop harrassing the boy. ;)

ne1GotZardoz
04-07-2003, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by junkyardking@6 April 2003 - 06:08
Americans wonder why alot people in the world including western counrtys dont like what there Government/People do and the ignorance displayed on this board is an example of this.

For Instance Dogbert said


1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of them &#39;good old boys&#39;. We will never "interfere" again.



It&#39;s Funny how you dont metion the "Interference" that the US did in Iran where a democartic Government was overthrown and brutal Despot(Shah) was put into power all thanks to the C.I.A. and people have got the nerve to blame Islam.
What About Chilie another Democratic Government to be overthrown and a Brutal Military dictactor put in place.

Cambodia, Vietnam, and Indoenesia to name a few.

That "interference" as you put it has cost the lives of tens of millions, but it&#39;s okay your in your nice comforty bed.

And this interference has not stopped the US is now involved in Columbia

Here&#39;s an other by Spindulik



Wow Dogert&#33; That was intense, and TRUE. A lot of people are free loading on America. You may also add that %80 of the crap we buy in our stores are made in other countries. Even the stores are owned in other countries. I can&#39;t even find a decent pair of heavy duty American made work boots, for heavy construction jobsites anymore. You know, a lot of people come to America&#39;s schools and leave. I know one family who came to America, opened a downtown restaurant for a few years, made a ton of money and left the country, without paying a penny in taxes&#33; How&#39;s that for you? I pay over &#036;17,000 (after deductions) a year in taxes, and I don&#39;t make a whole lot for myself either, enough to buy a new car every year. Then these people rip us off.

My German brother-in-law married my sister, so he can stay in this country. How about that?

A lot of American Iraqis, the ones who fled during the "late Saddam&#39;s regime", can tell you the horrors of the life over there. I welcome these people to the USA. They deserve free life. You should hear their stories.

That crap you buy is also the same as in Australia mostly From China(or in your case Mexico) and it&#39;s off the back of workers who are poorly paid and have little or no conditions which Multinationals corporations make huge profits from.

Funny thing he picks on "these people", but i would suggest that the large majority of the "freeloaders"
in America are Americans, or dont we remember Enron or Worldcom funny how short some peoples memorys are.
Do you really think that Rich People in America pay tax?lol :lol: :lol:



Some people have also tried to use human rights as the reason for war , but you think your goverment Fights wars for human rights <_< , just look at what i already said, The US fights wars when it&#39;s in there interest, if your looking for humans rights reasons for war why dont the US go to War with China.

You think America&#39;s a Democracy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

More people in the US watched the superbowl than voted&#33;
Well, part of the reason a few us us point out the good America has done and the Evil that Saddam has done is because a few symPATHETIC voices for the "benevolence of the Baath party" keep trying to trash us.

As for Iran...I&#39;m a bit confused.

As I recall, the Ayatollah was the bad guy. Very strong terrorist ties.
A religious extremist.

The Shah was the democratic character.

Khomeini just wanted to exterminate all non-muslims.
Starting with Salmon Rushdie as I recall.

We used Saddam to overthrow that dictator.

Yes we did.

We didn&#39;t at that time believe that Saddam would turn out as bad.
If we had known though, that may not have changed what we did.
You cannot change the world all at once.

Now, before you pose the question, "why does America think it has the right to decide"?

Well, this is country is the most tollerant of religious and racial diversity and the most able to move the world toward an ultimate goal of everyone getting along with everyone else.

The muslim people are highly inteligent and adaptive.
Thats a good thing if we can get them past this war thing and start them moving toward a one world way of seeing things.

Unfortunately, there are a few muslims, (not many but enough), who are radical extremists and honestly believe they are carrying out God&#39;s will when they strap a bomb to themselves and run into a coffee shop or fly a plane into a building.
They don&#39;t believe this because of anything they&#39;ve read.

They believe this because of what they have been told, (brainwashed), by an even fewer number of so-called religious extremist who you will never see with a bomb strapped to their bodies.

Those are the guys, (the ones who won&#39;t fly a plane into a building but brainwash others to), we are after. But they are protected behind a confused army of "martyrs for Allah".

Just look at the bold Fedayeen militia.

Look how boldly the cower behind innocent children in the dead of night and take pot shots at our men.

These are the men of Saddam&#39;s army.

They were trained that this was right.

And what would American and British soldiers do?

What are they doing right now?

Are they hiding behind women and children?

Or are they trying to protect them from the very army that you would think should be defending them.

All past difference aside, this war was necessary.

Our cause is just.

Peace

dwightfry
04-07-2003, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz+7 April 2003 - 00:44--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ne1GotZardoz @ 7 April 2003 - 00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -MagicNakor@6 April 2003 - 18:24
<!--QuoteBegin--dwightfry@6 April 2003 - 15:27
Ummm.....I don&#39;t know about Caombodia and Indonesia, But in Vietnam, the Communists from the south were trying to take over the Democracy of the north. We came in to try to stop the communists, we didn&#39;t attack a democratic country. :blink:
Actually, North Vietnam was Communist, South Vietnam was a decmocracy. Saigon was renamed into Ho Chi Minh City. That was more a proxy fight between the former Soviet Union and America, anyway. I think the USSR won that one.

:ninja:
Magick, He flunked geography.
Most people fall asleep in geography anyway. :)

At least he halfway paid attention in history. :rolleyes:

Stop harrassing the boy. ;) [/b][/quote]

LOL, Thanks for your support. :lol:

So, is my point still accurate? We weren&#39;t attacking a democratic country?

Dogbert
04-07-2003, 05:51 AM
;) President Bush is NOT a terrorist and Reasons Why I&#39;m so tired...


For a couple years I&#39;ve been blaming it on iron poor blood, lack of vitamins, exercise, dieting and a dozen other maladies. But now I found out the real reason; I&#39;m tired because I&#39;m overworked. Let me explain...


The population of the United Stated is 239 million. 106 million are retired. That leaves 133 million to do the work.

There are 83 million who are under-age or still in school, and 3 people who are still working on their PhD&#39;s since the 50&#39;s, which leave 49.99997 million to do the work.

Four million, four hundred ninety nine thousand, nine hundred seventy are in the Armed Forces, which leaves forty five and a half million to do the civilian work.

Of this there are 29.4 million employed by the federal government. This leaves 18.5 million to do the work. Half that many work for State and City Governments, and leaving 1,400,000 to do the work.

Now, there are 895,798 people in prisons, so that leaves 504,202 to do the work.

There are 504,200 people being treated in hospitals, at doctor appointments, or on sick leave today. That leaves just two people to do the work.

You and me.

...and you&#39;re sitting there playing around on the internet.

ne1GotZardoz
04-07-2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by dwightfry+6 April 2003 - 19:55--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dwightfry @ 6 April 2003 - 19:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -ne1GotZardoz@7 April 2003 - 00:44

Originally posted by -MagicNakor@6 April 2003 - 18:24
<!--QuoteBegin--dwightfry@6 April 2003 - 15:27
Ummm.....I don&#39;t know about Caombodia and Indonesia, But in Vietnam, the Communists from the south were trying to take over the Democracy of the north. We came in to try to stop the communists, we didn&#39;t attack a democratic country. :blink:
Actually, North Vietnam was Communist, South Vietnam was a decmocracy. Saigon was renamed into Ho Chi Minh City. That was more a proxy fight between the former Soviet Union and America, anyway. I think the USSR won that one.

:ninja:
Magick, He flunked geography.
Most people fall asleep in geography anyway. :)

At least he halfway paid attention in history. :rolleyes:

Stop harrassing the boy. ;)

LOL, Thanks for your support. :lol:

So, is my point still accurate? We weren&#39;t attacking a democratic country? [/b][/quote]
Your point was right but you still get a &#39;D&#39; in history.

;)

ne1GotZardoz
04-07-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@6 April 2003 - 20:51
;) President Bush is NOT a terrorist and Reasons Why I&#39;m so tired...



President Bush IS a terrorist...Haven&#39;t you been watching Iraqi News? :ph34r:

Oh...And I don&#39;t even want to hear about your problems. This is an office.
Get back to work.

:P :D :lol:

junkyardking
04-07-2003, 09:32 AM
Ask why the majority of Vietnamese supported the Communists because the democracy was corrupt as shit, and although the Communists promised better they were the same as the people they replaced.



ne1GotZardoz Posted on 7 April 2003 - 01:37
Well, part of the reason a few us us point out the good America has done and the Evil that Saddam has done is because a few symPATHETIC voices for the "benevolence of the Baath party" keep trying to trash us.

As for Iran...I&#39;m a bit confused.

As I recall, the Ayatollah was the bad guy. Very strong terrorist ties.
A religious extremist.

The Shah was the democratic character.

Khomeini just wanted to exterminate all non-muslims.
Starting with Salmon Rushdie as I recall.

We used Saddam to overthrow that dictator.

Yes we did.

We didn&#39;t at that time believe that Saddam would turn out as bad.
If we had known though, that may not have changed what we did.
You cannot change the world all at once.

Now, before you pose the question, "why does America think it has the right to decide"?

Well, this is country is the most tollerant of religious and racial diversity and the most able to move the world toward an ultimate goal of everyone getting along with everyone else.

The muslim people are highly inteligent and adaptive.
Thats a good thing if we can get them past this war thing and start them moving toward a one world way of seeing things.

Unfortunately, there are a few muslims, (not many but enough), who are radical extremists and honestly believe they are carrying out God&#39;s will when they strap a bomb to themselves and run into a coffee shop or fly a plane into a building.
They don&#39;t believe this because of anything they&#39;ve read.

They believe this because of what they have been told, (brainwashed), by an even fewer number of so-called religious extremist who you will never see with a bomb strapped to their bodies.

Those are the guys, (the ones who won&#39;t fly a plane into a building but brainwash others to), we are after. But they are protected behind a confused army of "martyrs for Allah".

Just look at the bold Fedayeen militia.

Look how boldly the cower behind innocent children in the dead of night and take pot shots at our men.

These are the men of Saddam&#39;s army.

They were trained that this was right.

And what would American and British soldiers do?

What are they doing right now?

Are they hiding behind women and children?

Or are they trying to protect them from the very army that you would think should be defending them.

All past difference aside, this war was necessary.

Our cause is just.

Peace


No need to be confused about The Shah, Iran actually was democratic before the shah and once the CIA supported Coup took place it became a dictatorship, and the shah spent his country&#39;s wealth on opulence, while is people were poor.
The US supported him all the way and when he was kicked out The US took him.

The Fundamentalists took advantage of the hate(which they rightly felt) felt towards The US and overthrew them, The support they received from the people from Iran had more too do with what the US had done to them than Islam.

The Ayatollah was a product of his time, The men involved in the coup, say the US president of the time and his C.I.A cohorts were the BAD guys.

They Tried to use Saddam to stop the fundamentalism spreading, But If America had not destroyed the democracy of Iran in the first place then they wouldn&#39;t have the trouble there now having.

"this is country is the most tolerant of religious and racial diversity" The US is Hardly tolerant, it may have allot of immigrants but allot of Americans still haven&#39;t got over black people.
I would Say Australia is The most tolerate but we have went backwards under conservatism.


"We didn&#39;t at that time believe that Saddam would turn out as bad.
If we had known though, that may not have changed what we did.
You cannot change the world all at once."

That pretty weak defence at best, Saddam had all his opponents systematically killed at one meeting were he took control and ordered them out to be shot, and the US after this would think he was a good man,
give me a break.

"Our cause is just." and what cause is that? a cause to help unselfishly the people of the world, i dont think so.
Or lets "give" them what America has because we know America is beacon of Freedom ect ect where people die because they cant afford health care and even when they have a HMO they wont get the surgery because the policy wont cover them.
Nevermind the rest.

America enter&#39;s war for it&#39;s own interest, if America is so concerned about peoples rights maybe they should go to war with China were they have forced Abortions and run people over with tanks.
What about some African countries, one where over 3 million have been killed, oh wait a minute they have no oil and there black.

Dont be so naive about what the US has done and what it&#39;s doing now. It makes them no better than the dictator themselves.


The thing is some of the Americans here never learn or dont care too know anything about what there government does and will continue to wonder why the world doesn&#39;t like America.

ne1GotZardoz
04-07-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by junkyardking@7 April 2003 - 04:32
The thing is some of the Americans here never learn or dont care too know anything about what there government does and will continue to wonder why the world doesn&#39;t like America.
World doesn&#39;t like America?

Really?

Honest?

I won&#39;t bother replying to the rest of your post.

I&#39;ve already replied enough to your posts.

You prefer to point out the descrepancies of past administrations.

Every administration has them.

Every country has them.

Every country is despised by a portion of the world.

The USA is no exception to that rule.

Can we focus please?

Not on underlying themes for this war...That enters the realm of conspiracy theory.

Everyone has one.

Everyone thinks theirs is right.

Everyone can give numerous resources to back theirs up.

Lets focus on something you&#39;ve not had much experience with...the issue at hand.

We have a military, "The Fedayeen and Republican guard", who think its a good thing to shoot innocent civilians, (their own country men, women and children), and push children out in front of them while they take pot shots at our men. Who cut off electricity and water to whole populations of their own people.

We have another military, "the US and British", who try to protect the civilians of another country, people we have no ties to, other than that we are all on one small planet. A military who sacrifices it&#39;s own agenda to secure that civilian population. This slows us down. We have to clear the river of mines so we can get food and water to these people.
That slows us down more.
We could forget about them and beeline to Baghdad.
We decide to leave a large portion of our troops behind to help secure the city for its people.
Why do we need to leave so many soldiers?
Because the Republican guard is shooting its own citizens.

Maybe I&#39;m mixed up here. Aren&#39;t they suppose to protect the citizens of Iraq from us?

Why are we protecting the citizens of Iraq from their army?

Do you know?

dwightfry
04-07-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz+7 April 2003 - 09:37--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ne1GotZardoz @ 7 April 2003 - 09:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Dogbert@6 April 2003 - 20:51
;)&nbsp; President Bush is NOT a terrorist and Reasons Why I&#39;m so tired...



President Bush IS a terrorist...Haven&#39;t you been watching Iraqi News? :ph34r:

Oh...And I don&#39;t even want to hear about your problems. This is an office.
Get back to work.

:P :D :lol: [/b][/quote]
Even if you hate america, how can you trust the Iraqi news. America gives us a lot of propaganda, but the Iraqi telivision is just ludicrious. They are telling the citizens that the Iraqi army has won in the battle for bagdad. They even held a pathetic celebration of their "victory". They&#39;re not stretching the truth, they are flat out lying. <_<

j2k4
04-07-2003, 02:21 PM
Good point-dwightfry-

How DO people choose which brand of propaganda to consume?

There may be pre-existing or latent reasons, but how often is it by default?

Dogbert
04-07-2003, 07:15 PM
:huh: I think I&#39;ve figured it out. Apparently the US and the Brits have invaded the wrong country. As per Iraq news sources life in Bagdad is normal. I wonder what country our troops are in? Anyone know?

Stay tuned to other news sources for discoveries of WMD. They have&#39;em.
They are being found. Don&#39;t ask me for links. Do your own lookin&#39;. What are you a lazy bum? Turn on, tune in to various sources.

You will have to decide for yourself which source is propaganda and which is honest news.

Oh, by the way....President Bush is NOT a terrorist. Actions speak louder than words. Humanitarian efforts to help the people of Iraq are taking place now.

I love everyone of you. Thanks for the good reads, all of them.

junkyardking
04-08-2003, 02:57 AM
Arrogance will get you nowhere.

junkyardking
04-08-2003, 02:59 AM
Dogbert&nbsp; Posted: 7 April 2003 - 19:15
Oh, by the way....President Bush is NOT a terrorist. Actions speak louder than words. Humanitarian efforts to help the people of Iraq are taking place now.



I suppose you would say that if an American Bomb killed your family.

longterm
04-08-2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@7 April 2003 - 06:51
;) President Bush is NOT a terrorist and Reasons Why I&#39;m so tired...


For a couple years I&#39;ve been blaming it on iron poor blood, lack of vitamins, exercise, dieting and a dozen other maladies. But now I found out the real reason; I&#39;m tired because I&#39;m overworked. Let me explain...


The population of the United Stated is 239 million. 106 million are retired. That leaves 133 million to do the work.

There are 83 million who are under-age or still in school, and 3 people who are still working on their PhD&#39;s since the 50&#39;s, which leave 49.99997 million to do the work.

Four million, four hundred ninety nine thousand, nine hundred seventy are in the Armed Forces, which leaves forty five and a half million to do the civilian work.

Of this there are 29.4 million employed by the federal government. This leaves 18.5 million to do the work. Half that many work for State and City Governments, and leaving 1,400,000 to do the work.

Now, there are 895,798 people in prisons, so that leaves 504,202 to do the work.

There are 504,200 people being treated in hospitals, at doctor appointments, or on sick leave today. That leaves just two people to do the work.

You and me.

...and you&#39;re sitting there playing around on the internet.
;) President Bush is NOT a terrorist and Reasons Why I&#39;m so tired...


For a couple years I&#39;ve been blaming it on iron poor blood, lack of vitamins, exercise, dieting and a dozen other maladies. But now I found out the real reason; I&#39;m tired because I&#39;m overworked. Let me explain...


The population of the United Stated is 239 million. 106 million are retired. That leaves 133 million to do the work.

There are 83 million who are under-age or still in school, and 3 people who are still working on their PhD&#39;s since the 50&#39;s, which leave 49.99997 million to do the work.

Four million, four hundred ninety nine thousand, nine hundred seventy are in the Armed Forces, which leaves forty five and a half million to do the civilian work.

Of this there are 29.4 million employed by the federal government. This leaves 18.5 million to do the work. Half that many work for State and City Governments, and leaving 1,400,000 to do the work.

Now, there are 895,798 people in prisons, so that leaves 504,202 to do the work.

There are 504,200 people being treated in hospitals, at doctor appointments, or on sick leave today. That leaves just two people to do the work.

You and me.

...and you&#39;re sitting there playing around on the internet.



I woke up my roommate laughing so loudly at this&#33; Very, very funny&#33;

longterm
04-08-2003, 05:12 AM
And, apparently, I just learned how NOT to use the "quote" function&#33;
(First time, what can I say?)

j2k4
04-08-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by longterm@8 April 2003 - 06:12
And, apparently, I just learned how NOT to use the "quote" function&#33;
(First time, what can I say?)
Go Long, Term-I&#39;ll hit ya&#39; wit da bomb&#33; :D

longterm
04-08-2003, 05:49 AM
The comparisons to Hitler about Bush are not accurate in a... factual sense. :huh:
The fact that he, Bush is doing a lot to help people cannot be ignored.
It&#39;s getting great press here. I can&#39;t get to any of the "censored" news from the war. Shame about that journalist who was killed by a blood clot...embolism, rather. (It would be nice to see all of his footage that was shot...all of it unedited...until the end.) I don&#39;t know what civilians think is meant by the term "war". I believe the press about Saddam&#39;s viciousness. I also believe he&#39;s no fool, and knew we were going to go to war no matter what, and got the hell out early. Would YOU depend on a "really great fortified bunker" if you knew the full might of the freakin&#39; U.S. military was about to come a tap-tap-tapping on your country? :blink: Sheesh&#33;
I don&#39;t think terrorist is an accurate term for Bush.
I will ponder it, and try and come up with one which addresses his agenda beyond a couple of years.
Hmm....hmmm....mm-hmm?....mmmm...(this is me pondering)....hmm.
But, really, he&#39;s misunderstood. His turn-ons are big fluffy blue slippers, dogs named Pookie, and women who forget to get dressed after the Presidential Tour, if you know what I mean.
His turn-offs are questions with a point, because they seem so much like attacks. Bush: "Do you HAVE to ask me that, because it doesn&#39;t relate to my tough stance on terror, and that&#39;s really all I&#39;ve rehearsed for the next few years. I mean, I can throw in a bone here and there about tightening restrictions in America, DUE TO TERROR&#33;, and I can talk about the failing economy, which is failing, DUE TO TERROR&#33;, and I can rationalize reducing health care, education, environment, DUE TO TERROR, because we&#39;ve asked Americans, and they say, "Do whatever you like Mr. President.", DUE TO TERROR&#33; Can&#39;t we all just get along?"

Hmm...mmm...mm...hm...mmmmm.....mmhmmm.......
Later.

j2k4
04-08-2003, 05:52 AM
Please continue pondering.

Z
04-08-2003, 05:55 AM
actually the US population is in excess of 275 million now. ;)

j2k4
04-08-2003, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by Z@8 April 2003 - 06:55
actually the US population is in excess of 275 million now. ;)
Is that pre- or post- the last adjustment (1-2 weeks ago)? :huh: :huh:

ne1GotZardoz
04-08-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by junkyardking@7 April 2003 - 21:57
Arrogance will get you nowhere.
In case that was directed at me, (likely since my reply to your last post was pretty arrogant), here is my reply to this post.


Me?

Arrogant?

And you haven&#39;t been, in some of your posts?

If I offended, you have my appology.

Not for what I said...Only that it offended you.

It was bound to offend someone.:)

Peace

Dogbert
04-08-2003, 07:19 PM
:)

"02:16 PM EDT/10:16 PM Iraq: Saddam&#39;s Imprisoned Children
Children freed from youth prison:

More than 100 children held in a prison celebrated their freedom Tuesday as US marines rolled into northeast Baghdad amid chaotic scenes which saw civilians loot weapons from an army compound, a US officer said...

"The children had been imprisoned because they had not joined the youth branch of the Baath party," he alleged. "Some of these kids had been in there for five years."

Posted By John Cole | Permalink | People Spinning (22) | TrackBack (2) "

:) President Bush is not a terrorist. :)

j2k4
04-09-2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Dogbert@8 April 2003 - 14:19
:)

"02:16 PM EDT/10:16 PM Iraq: Saddam&#39;s Imprisoned Children
Children freed from youth prison:

More than 100 children held in a prison celebrated their freedom Tuesday as US marines rolled into northeast Baghdad amid chaotic scenes which saw civilians loot weapons from an army compound, a US officer said...

"The children had been imprisoned because they had not joined the youth branch of the Baath party," he alleged. "Some of these kids had been in there for five years."

Posted By John Cole | Permalink | People Spinning (22) | TrackBack (2) "

:) President Bush is not a terrorist. :)
If this is true, it&#39;s another parallel to Hitler. TRUE EVIL.

Z
04-09-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by j2k4+8 April 2003 - 00:58--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 8 April 2003 - 00:58)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Z@8 April 2003 - 06:55
actually the US population is in excess of 275 million now.&nbsp; ;)
Is that pre- or post- the last adjustment (1-2 weeks ago)? :huh: :huh: [/b][/quote]
i have no clue what ure talking about. i haven&#39;t read anything in this thread. :lol:

j2k4
04-09-2003, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by Z+8 April 2003 - 22:46--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Z @ 8 April 2003 - 22:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -j2k4@8 April 2003 - 00:58
<!--QuoteBegin--Z@8 April 2003 - 06:55
actually the US population is in excess of 275 million now. ;)
Is that pre- or post- the last adjustment (1-2 weeks ago)? :huh: :huh:
i have no clue what ure talking about. i haven&#39;t read anything in this thread. :lol: [/b][/quote]
Why? Dyslexic? Blind? Pre-occupied? :P

Z
04-09-2003, 04:00 AM
pre-occupied. :P

j2k4
04-09-2003, 04:30 AM
I had read something to the effect the previous figure (I can&#39;t remember what it was) had to be adjusted downward due to a counting glitch-didn&#39;t know whether your number reflected that. :huh: :huh:

Z
04-09-2003, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by j2k4@8 April 2003 - 23:30
I had read something to the effect the previous figure (I can&#39;t remember what it was) had to be adjusted downward due to a counting glitch-didn&#39;t know whether your number reflected that. :huh: :huh:
u talkin to me?
who really cares? its approximately 275-280 million now. :P

ne1GotZardoz
04-09-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by j2k4@8 April 2003 - 23:30
I had read something to the effect the previous figure (I can&#39;t remember what it was) had to be adjusted downward due to a counting glitch-didn&#39;t know whether your number reflected that. :huh: :huh:
We COULD demand a recount.

Jeb Bush could organize it.
:rolleyes:

Spindulik
04-09-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by junkyardking@8 April 2003 - 03:57
Arrogance will get you nowhere.
You don&#39;t have to be so arrogant about it.

Z
04-10-2003, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by Spindulik+9 April 2003 - 16:33--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 9 April 2003 - 16:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--junkyardking@8 April 2003 - 03:57
Arrogance will get you nowhere.
You don&#39;t have to be so arrogant about it. [/b][/quote]
i know&#33; :P

enorme
04-14-2003, 12:08 AM
1 you dont have to apologize,is history
2 yes withdrew the troops,noboby ask them to to be there,I dont see any foreign troops in USA soil.


3 suggest you get informed ,if you are calling for,these that are illegally here to leave then you have to go back and look or read the indians tribes laws,perhaps you will find an article in their ancient writing that you were not welcome to invade their north america land,and more if you decide that you belong here ,I like to know where becouse half of what you imply is habitated by illegals once was part of mexico,who is not telling you to desocuppy my land.the only people that can make those claims of leave my land or deported are the American indians and their mexican-spanish neighbor.
4 If you dont want to barter trade,or market your goods fine
5 I assume you never assisted a training school.
6 I&#39;m sure they will start digging our alaskan refuges,our loved ocean fronts.
7 offer,saudi arabia the price, the price we chose,do you like to be paid for your work as the employer choses.
8 As farest natural disasters better alone then ocuppied.
9 I&#39;m assuming you will also close al the USA ambassies around the world that are filled with CIA agents.
10 As farest ogly no American is ogly and no american is hated,what is hated is the foreign policy,for instance the resolution on Israel to leave the occupied palestinian land is older then the resolution for Iraq to disarm, the cuban are opressed people colser to our border or our administration dont know distance why 25,000 miles away,weapons of mass destruction,come on look at our back yard,anthrax in Iraq,come on our intelligence can not find who send anthrax to congresmans last year the same intelligence that created the bogus conection al-queda-Iraq with a document signed by an official of some african country at a time the official was no longer with that goverment. in conclusion, the American people has great morals ,principles but at time our administrastion represent theirs and not :ph34r: ours.


8

longterm
04-16-2003, 05:57 PM
Hmm. More pondering. I&#39;m eating at my favorite place, Ponderosa&#33; (Kidding.)
The 10 point plan was, indeed, brilliant and direct, as a means of opening a discussion.
The responses were as well.
What if you had 2 choices:
Coincidence-or-Planned?
We can handily abbreviate that as C.O.P.&#33; Okay&#33;

So, George Bush&#39;s daddy, George Bush, is connected with the same group responsible for handling the bin Laden family fortune.
C.O.P?
The Bush family also has long and deep ties to the CIA, which is responsible for planning of military strikes, be they one man or country sized.
C.O.P?

One of the senators tried to get the CIA disbanded once the Cold War was over, claiming the American people had the right to their governmental democracy back, and claiming victory in the Cold War. ( He failed.)
It was also speculated that only a dire and insidious threat can "justify" the continued spying, lying and manipulating outside the Constitution.
(sniff-sniff: Do I smell a need to scare Americans?)
C.O.P?
We go from Communism to TERRORISM&#33;

I mention again: the book by Charlotte Iserbyte: "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America."
I also paraphrase from newspapers:
Oregon is SHORTENING ITS SCHOOL YEAR and reducing teachers&#39; pay; not enough &#036;. Other states are suffering similar crisis, DESPITE the LOTTO MOTTO:
"When You Play, We All Win."
C.O.P.?
The bottom line is this.
I think we, America, or rather, the corporate/family control of America,
is DIRECTLY responsible for 9/11.
Of COURSE the people used and the training done, and the &#036; is all nontrackable&#33;&#33;&#33; No SHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;(This does not force the blame elsewhere.)
How would you feel, as an American, if your President came on t.v. and said the following?

"My fellow Americans, we want to get control, and I mean total fucking control, and I mean no holds barred. We have certain interests, we have kids we love...more than YOUR fucking kids. We have most, if not all the reins in our hands. Soon, we&#39;ll have all of them. (insert grin here)
We control the media, the products, the by-products of product manufacturing, the drug trade, legal and illegal, etc, etc. and by the way,
God Himself will not be able to help you if you TRY AND fuck WITH US, and yes, we WILL spend an inordinate amount trying to feed and help people, which sucks, because we love our power/money, but really, in the end, it helps us win support, and yes, it does feel surpirsingly good to help people, but still, YOU NEVER READ THE FINE PRINT.
Of course, the FINE PRINT is locked and sealed, and for good measure written so obtusely that a team of linguists would die from confusion before heads or tails could be made of it, and by the way, woe to those who try.
My family and friends happen to be on the fruit bearing end of years of planning, and we are not about to let some silly majority, most of whom are too dumb to vote, (like we wanted), and too apathetic, (like we planned ),
to get in the way. If some of you happen to benefit also, well kiss my ass and vote for me. For those who are injured or dead, well, how many dead people vote? I mean really. And a funeral is much cheaper than treatment."

See, he can&#39;t really say that. It just doesn&#39;t sound...democratic?
Where was Bush during the 60&#39;s? 70&#39;s? etc. (All 3 Bushes, trace their paths.
Prescott Bush, G. Bush, and our wise and peaceful leader himself. Interesting road. )

Understand, he&#39;s not the PLANNER. He&#39;s the catalyst.
I&#39;m sure he&#39;s a nice guy. What guy doesn&#39;t want the best for his family?
Meanwhile, I&#39;m still waiting for insurance so I can get abdominal pains checked out. (The insurance may well force me back on the street, since even the rent in this bottom of the barrel neighborhood is not exactly cheap, and I may not be able to do both insurance AND rent.)
ER won&#39;t do it without &#036;. Doctor won&#39;t test without &#036;.
I can only pray that it&#39;s scar tissue and not cancer. Maybe I&#39;ll find out.
Maybe I won&#39;t. But I still love my only child, soon to be 2. I hope I can love her when she&#39;s much older. I really do.
Remember:
Educate. <_< Laugh. :lol: Love. :rolleyes: Life. :P