Do you own a gun?

[100%]

its about the gun

http://www.lyceum.org.uk/sites/press/images/Summer%20on%20Stage/Big%20Country/Vickers%20gun%20800.jpg

[Formula1]

no

[MCHeshPants420]

Does the 'big cheese' count?:unsure:

Yes, I'm implying I have a huge cawk.

[TheDave]

its about the gun

http://www.lyceum.org.uk/sites/press/images/Summer%20on%20Stage/Big%20Country/Vickers%20gun%20800.jpg
didn't stop the zombie slashing her stomach open

[j2k4]

Yes.

[100%]

just the small letters of

yes

makes me shudder

but on the other hand i have some seriously body altering tools which would do painfull damage if used for deletion process. and if in mad max times im sure it would be quite easy to create something worse than a gun with what is in my kitchen.
However it is 2005 and life is sweet.

[Busyman]

Yes.

fps....that's funny Zed. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Busyman]

didn't stop the zombie slashing her stomach open
another good one.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[S!X]

another good one.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Spammer :spamfrown :dry: lol jk.

Yes i own a Berreta Couger.

[100%]

why do you own gun?

[TheDave]

i'm thinking of getting a g10 from a new bric-a-brac shop. just for fun like

[S!X]

why do you own gun?

It was given to me by a family member.

[cpt_azad]

Yes. Several to be in fact. Here's "my" gun that my dad got me for my bday 2 months ago. We got a lot of hunting rifles, oh those stupid deer.



Beretta Px4 Storm, Type F:
http://products.berettausa.com/images/JXF9F11_px4_S.jpg

[Formula1]

how old r u lol?

[manker]

No. I'm not scared of the society I live in.

[manker]

Neither am I.

It is well to be wary of it, though.

If I lived in an urban area I'd be packing full-time.No-one owns a gun around here.

I'm actually pretty scared of big dogs. There are a couple living just down the street from me - a lurcher and some Japanese fighting thing - but while I'll make sure the gate to my garden is locked, I won't rest a gun by the side of my chair while reading in the sunshine.

Would you.

I'd say that there is more chance of one of those dogs leaping over my fence and biting my face off than a burgular negotiating his way thro' my, or your, front door, evading the alarm and harming me or my family. Yet the notion of having a gun handy, just in case, seems ludicrous to me.

It's an ingrained mentality, I don't have it. You appear to.

[manker]

I can only understand the oppressiveness by proxy but you'll excuse me for feeling slightly perturbed that altho' Busyman lives in a fairly quiet area, has a huge fence around his property, a hi-tech alarm and deadbolted doors he still feels the need to have guns in all six corners of his house (I paraphrase).

The definite difference you speak of seems rather oppressive to me.

I see no reason to re-evaluate my views, I'd hate to feel that way.

[Snee]

I don't need a real gun, wouldn't want to live in a country where I did.

[Busyman]

I can only understand the oppressiveness by proxy but you'll excuse me for feeling slightly perturbed that altho' Busyman lives in a fairly quiet area, has a huge fence around his property, a hi-tech alarm and deadbolted doors he still feels the need to have guns in all six corners of his house (I paraphrase).

The definite difference you speak of seems rather oppressive to me.

I see no reason to re-evaluate my views, I'd hate to feel that way.
Hmmm....
Fence - privacy, keeps out dogs, and can let a 4 year-old play without super strict supervision.

Alarm system - you've gone to work and someone carted away all your shit, taking an hour to do it....oops they can't because of THE ALARM SYSTEM. Also anyone coming in or out at any time sends a signal.

Guns - Someone breaks in, you have nothing, they have a gun, you and your family are huddled in the bedroom waiting to die.

Mind you this is all just in case shit. I have never had my house broken into.
One day, just one day, your house might get picked.

I deal in lowering chances of shit happening and not sitting on the fence.
I also believe the world only gets worse as time goes on.

Btw I don't live in Beirut or anything. The previous owners, for example, lived here for 42 years and didn't have an alarm. I believe in protecting my family and giving them piece of mind. When I'm not there and there is basically a shield around the house, that makes them feel better.

Simple logic. :)

[Snee]

Dude, a gun is not a magical force-field that wards all evil away.

[Busyman]

Dude, a gun is not a magical force-field that wards all evil away.
:blink:

[Snee]

If someone breaks in, and you and they both have guns, what if that's what gets them nervous enough to shoot you before you shoot them?

Or, hell, what if the kid finds it?

Or you trip and shoot yourself.

A gun might save you, but it might just as well be an accident waiting to happen.


It's not instant security inna box.

[manker]

Hmmm....
Fence - privacy, keeps out dogs, and can let a 4 year-old play without super strict supervision.

Alarm system - you've gone to work and someone carted away all your shit, taking an hour to do it....oops they can't because of THE ALARM SYSTEM. Also anyone coming in or out at any time sends a signal.

Guns - Someone breaks in, you have nothing, they have a gun, you and your family are huddled in the bedroom waiting to die.

Mind you this is all just in case shit. I have never had my house broken into.
One day, just one day, your house might get picked.

I deal in lowering chances of shit happening and not sitting on the fence.
I also believe the world only gets worse as time goes on.

Btw I don't live in Beirut or anything. The previous owners, for example, lived here for 42 years and didn't have an alarm. I believe in protecting my family and giving them piece of mind. When I'm not there and there is basically a shield around the house, that makes them feel better.

Simple logic. :)
Uhh ... yeah.

You've demonstrated what I already have. It's a mentality, you have it, I don't.

[Busyman]

If someone breaks in, and you and they both have guns, what if that's what get them nervous enough to shoot you before you shoot them?

Or, hell, what if the kid finds it?

Or you trip and shoot yourself.

A gun might save you, but it might just as well be an accident waiting to happen.
Your first question is the most liberal one I've heard in years. He comes into my house with a gun....... :lol: :lol:

Second, two words, gun locks.

Third, you are fishing. I don't run around with guns. The only shooting I actually do is at the range.

[Snee]

Yeah, they come into your house, expecting it to be a simple matter of pushing you around, and they find you there with your wee gun?

Instant fooking OK corral.

Secondly, there are a lot of reasons you might forget a gun-lock.

And thirdly, what if they decide to break in while you are pished, or haven't slept, or whatever. It's easy to forget yourself.

[Busyman]

Uhh ... yeah.

You've demonstrated what I already have. It's a mentality, you have it, I don't.
Yep, it's called security.

I've seen enough to warrant my mentality. It's also called survival. I like my chances increased although I can't guarantee it.

I notice many on here act as if this "mentality" is a burden. It is not.

I come home turn off the alarm and go about my business. It's a button press ffs.
The same when I leave.
If I'm outside in the yard and just come in, there is a chirp.

That's about the extent of my alarm dealings.

When I go to range, my gun is the cabin of the car, ammo in the trunk.
I come home, gun lock on, put in hiding place.

Otherwise guns are no intrusion on my lifestyle. I don't carry it when walking around my backyard or anything...they stay put unless I'm going shooting.

The fence is for privacy and to stop packs dogs from roaming freely and biting the shit out of me.

Again, simple logic. :)

[manker]

Busy, you're in dreamland if you think that your range shooting will instantly mean you'll pwn a burgular in a gunfight.

You have to acknowledge that the mere fact you possess a gun heightens the chances you'll get shot.

An armed burgular without being faced with a gun toting house-owner will steal your stuff and fuck off, an armed burgular with his life at risk will shoot you and still steal your stuff. Sure you may get lucky and shoot him first but maybe you're not so lucky the next time.

Who cares if your stuff is stolen provided you survive. You do have insurance, I take it.

[manker]

Yep, it's called security.

I've seen enough to warrant my mentality. It's also called survival. I like my chances increased although I can't guarantee it.

I notice many on here act as if this "mentality" is a burden. It is not.

I come home turn off the alarm and go about my business. It's a button press ffs.
The same when I leave.
If I'm outside in the yard and just come in, there is a chirp.

That's about the extent of my alarm dealings.

When I go to range, my gun is the cabin of the car, ammo in the trunk.
I come home, gun lock on, put in hiding place.

Otherwise guns are no intrusion on my lifestyle. I don't carry it when walking around my backyard or anything...they stay put unless I'm going shooting.

The fence is for privacy and to stop packs dogs from roaming freely and biting the shit out of me.

Again, simple logic. :)Not logical really, you're explaining a point I've already explained.

I couldn't care if you think it's a burden to feel this way or not, my point is that I have absolutely no desire to be in the clutches this very different mentality.

[Busyman]

Busy, you're in dreamland if you think that your range shooting will instantly mean you'll pwn a burgular in a gunfight.

You have to acknowledge that the mere fact you possess a gun heightens the chances you'll get shot.

An armed burgular without being faced with a gun toting house-owner will steal your stuff and fuck off, an armed burgular with his life at risk will shoot you and still steal your stuff. Sure you may get lucky and shoot him first but maybe you're not so lucky the next time.

Who cares if your stuff is stolen provided you survive. You do have insurance, I take it.
You live in dreamland if you think people just come to steal property.

It seems to me that folks of your ilk seize any chance to belittle minor points.

You conveniently left out the fact that by having an alarm the the chances of being burgled are severely lessened but yet hone in on the notion of a burglar shooting 'cause I showed a gun. :dry:

Me being somewhat streetwise, I wouldn't play that card unless I have to. I don't have guns just to protect my shit. I have it to protect my family so having a gun doesn't increase my chances but brandishing it willy-nilly does.

For example, in a car-jacking...take the fucking car even if I have a gun.

You folks assume...gun = smoke'em if you got 'em

Example if someone broke into my house downstairs then I would immediately huddle my family in one room, get my gun, and have my lady call the police while I train the gun on the door. Soon I'll have a key chain panic button.

I don't go investigating like teh movies. If I'm shot, what protection does that leave my family? :(

[Busyman]

Not logical really, you're explaining a point I've already explained.

I couldn't care if you think it's a burden to feel this way or not, my point is that I have absolutely no desire to be in the clutches this very different mentality.
You called it oppressive yet there is no oppression.

Tbh when I read about 2 home invasions where everyone was killed, it changed my preparedness.

One in particular had 2 gentlemen breaking in a house of 7 people and all of them were killed (they weren't sleep). Very isolated incident yet I'm a just in case kinda guy and don't want to be "the isolated incident".

[Busyman]

I care, and that is precisely the point, Manker.

It's MY stuff, not his, and I don't owe him a pass in and out of my home based on his greedy impulse.

Besides which, why should I suffer a premium-rate hike because some idiot decides he needs my stuff more than I do?
j2 that post is frameable. I gotta remove the quote tags. :lol: :lol:

[Snee]

Busy, you're in dreamland if you think that your range shooting will instantly mean you'll pwn a burgular in a gunfight.
Training/practice is everything, Manker, and burglars are not renowned for their sense or marksmanship.

Cheap hoods with large testicles is the problem; dopes who hold their gun sideways, like they do in the movies.

If nothing else, range time will improve your odds, which most people would find preferable.

You have to acknowledge that the mere fact you possess a gun heightens the chances you'll get shot.

Not in the least true, unless you lack training, which is, regrettably, an altogether too frequent circumstance.

As regards things like trigger locks/child safety:

Part of proper training is strict and constant observance of what are called rules, and they govern every aspect of firearm ownership.

You learn them and live them.

Given the rules, gun ownership lessens your chances of getting shot.

An armed burgular without being faced with a gun toting house-owner will steal your stuff and fuck off, an armed burgular with his life at risk will shoot you and still steal your stuff. Sure you may get lucky and shoot him first but maybe you're not so lucky the next time.

Your home is not your castle?

Mine is-I will take this small measure to ensure that it stays that way.

I do not now, but have had, and will again, small signs for every window and door in my dwelling, which read as follows:

ENTER ILLEGALLY AT YOUR PERIL; THE OCCUPANTS OF THIS DOMICILE ARE TRAINED KILLERS, AND WELL-ARMED

If I am unlucky enough to suffer victimization by an illiterate burglar, I am confident I can out-shoot him.

If my trespasser does not speak English, I guess I'll have to get busy removing the signs while he bleeds out, and before I call the gendarmes.

Who cares if your stuff is stolen provided you survive. You do have insurance, I take it.



I care, and that is precisely the point, Manker.

It's MY stuff, not his, and I don't owe him a pass in and out of my home based on his greedy impulse.

Besides which, why should I suffer a premium-rate hike because some idiot decides he needs my stuff more than I do?

You can't possibly know what kind of experience someone has with a gun, it's just as possible that someone who has a habit of carrying around their gun all the time is a better shot than someone who goes to a shooting range ever so often.

Your home is your castle, and you can do what you like, but that still doesn't mean that things will work out the way you like.

What you've stated is how you'd like things to be, not the way they are. Or at least you can't assume they are that way.

As for it not increasing your chances of getting shot, that sounds pretty hopeful too, no matter how much training you have, it doesn't negate the fact that aggressive human beings react with violence at a percieved threat.

I highly doubt someone is going to think, "oh this one looks like he has training", and somehow be so distracted by that fact that he can't pull the trigger.

And as for gun-locks, I doubt that any amount of training could absolutely remove the risk of you screwing up, human beings aren't perfect, not even you.

[TheDave]

:lol: definately a wacky mentality. all five of us are in the same situation but only busyman and j2k4 feel the need to own a gun.

[vidcc]

It's a deadly circle

Have a gun in case the intruder has one, the intruder is more likely to have a gun if he believes the home-owner has one.

America is different from the UK in that because of loopholes in our under enforced gun laws we sell guns to anyone (gun shows don't require background checks) so the argument of "protection" does carry some validity. The reverse is also valid. The problem is that we can't legislate against incompetence or stupidity happening.

[RPerry]

Yes. Several at that. I have no children, nobody under the age of 31 in the house ( with the exceptions of the Danes, but their paws are much to big to pull a trigger) Most of them are collectors items, or family heirlooms. All 4 of us are equally trained. I work nights, therefore have no problem with my girlfriend and her mother having a means to protect themselves. Wal into my home, if somehow you manage to get by the dogs, I promise you won't get past Dawn :naughty:

[Snee]

@J2: What manner of scholarly study enables you to say with absolute certainty that your hypothetical burglar-thugs don't spend a moment ever so often taking shots at tin-cans or something. Hell, maybe they enjoy a bit of friendly competition to see who can handle their penis surrogate better.

It's the kind of thing I'd expect reckless idiots to do.

You don't have any statistics to prove how well the average burglar will shoot do you? Just out of curiosity like, can you say that [insert percentage here] of all burglars in the US only own guns for the purpose of display?

I've never heard of any such studies anywhere, scholarly or otherwise.

Take me to task? :blink: what with?



The sign is not the gun, you might as well put it up, and not get a gun.

If they've decided to break in anyway, you've only warned them.
They'll sure as hell know you are dangerous then, and will come to you expecting trouble.



Try to dismiss it as wild speculations all you like, human nature will still be human nature. Aggression is often met with aggression, and threats often met with violence.

I do know, from my own, and sadly more intimate than I'd like, observations, that some people see any percieved aggression (including that used for the purpose of self-defense) as a challenge, and others just hate backing down.


As for not screwing up, that's just silly. Anyone can screw up at the wrong moment, especially when caught with their pants down. I'd hardly expect burglars to come when it's convenient for you, hell, the way things sometimes are, they might break into your house when you are drunk out of your skull or something like it.

[vidcc]

And he is less likely to "intrude" if he knows the home-owner is armed.

That is a pure fact.

Your deadly circle just became an arc.

i disagree because we have a higher "intruder" rate than the Uk which is not a gun culture.

[Snee]

All right.

Did you just imply that americans tend to be more daft, compared to UK residents? :blink:

[RPerry]

All right.

Did you just imply that americans tend to be more daft, compared to UK residents? :blink:

who in the hell could be more daft than UKResident ???? :blink:

[vidcc]

The intruder rate has nothing whatsoever to do with any "gun culture", it has to do with what percentage of of the population-at-large are idiots, and that is another debate altogether.


so your point would be that a home-owner with a gun is less likely to be violated by a "thinking" intruder?... but then I may just be pissing in the wind here but don't all intruders believe they will get away with it....don't all criminals believe that?

I have said that the "home protection" view has a degree of validity in the USA because of the gun culture...something not needed in places like the UK. So I have given you your view of it being for protection.... I just don't agree it it is factually a deterrent.

[Smith]

I dont have any need to buy a gun.

[Snee]

who in the hell could be more daft than UKResident ???? :blink:
I stand corrected :lol:

[manker]

I simply cannot add in any significant way to SnnY's excellently presented points as we're on the same page. To presume that you're going to be better in a pressurized situation than a criminal is arrogance in the extreme and I'll give that notion no credence whatsoever.

I take it the hierarchy wrt to shooting folk is Navy Seals, then j2 and Busyman (I've written that as a tie but if that's not acceptable to either then a paintball dual to the emulsion death should separate them and be highly entertaining into the bargain) - and lastly criminals.

The assertion that the US has more idiots than the UK => more homes get burgled is also complete nonsense. When did this happen, I thought our own idiot rate was bad enough but you mean to say there is a country with an even higher proportion of imbeciles.

You get a :lol: for that, j2.

[MCHeshPants420]

I don't need a gun to protect my home. I have Keiron Dyer and Lee Bowyer as my security.:glare:

[bujub22]

Neither am I.

It is well to be wary of it, though.

If I lived in an urban area I'd be packing full-time.
;) y i own a few

[Biggles]

As with 99.999% of UK residents I do not own a gun. Can't say it is something that really ever crosses my mind. I think it would be fair to say I have never felt the desire or need for one. On the whole, I believe this to be a good thing and long may it continue.

[Busyman]

Many of the you folks are fishing on shit you know nothing about.

1. A home with merely a sign in the yard saying it has an alarm is less likely to get burglarized. Period. If one of you UK folks move here and decide against putting an alarm in you are more likely get your shit taken than one with an alarm. This is not arguable. :dry:

2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.

3. Most of these knuckleheads are shit at shooting. I know since I have hung around them for years (actually was one when I was younger). I have no problem with many of you not wanting to be "held in the clutches" of such mentality. At the same time since you know shit about it, your statements hold as much water as a sieve.

4. There are only 2 points that I agree on with "me UK mites". If a person is willing to target someone regardless of an alarm or owner having a gun then he is packing anyway. If he thinks the owner has a gun then he more likely to shoot if he knows it going in. However, a burglar is just that and is easily scared away and. FFS even a murderer doesn't want to go through alot of shit to kill you. Unarmed folks get killed ALL THE TIME (sometimes in their sleep) so even you guy's liberal passive point holds little water (see my previous home invasion reference).
The other point I agree on is that gun shows should have background checks.

Someone breaks in my house, the police are called. They cut the line, the police are notified.

Where's the "clutch of oppression".

Many of you are pretty passive when it comes to protecting your family. You place your faith in "the burglar most likely won't hurt me" and it sounds rather bitchy. (also stop watching so much TV. we are not all the security guard that is on the floor during a bank robbery and tries to be a hero.)

This may be due to your crime rate over in the UK. However, we have a much higher rate and it is not due to folks merely protecting their homes. :dry: Many of you have honed in on a very miniscule point that has no validity.

[lynx]

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994 (I'm sure there are probably more up to date figures, but I think this illustrates the point):

United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Republic of Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05

The general trend is more or less in line with rates of gun ownership.
I think I'll stick to a simple "No thanks".

[Busyman]

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994 (I'm sure there are probably more up to date figures, but I think this illustrates the point):

United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Republic of Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05

The general trend is more or less in line with rates of gun ownership.
This is not surprising. :dry:

[bujub22]

Many of the you folks are fishing on shit you know nothing about.

1. A home with merely a sign in the yard saying it has an alarm is less likely to get burglarized. Period. If one of you UK folks move here and decide against putting an alarm in you are more likely get your shit taken than one with an alarm. This is not arguable. :dry:

2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.

3. Most of these knuckleheads are shit at shooting. I know since I have hung around them for years (actually was one when I was younger). I have no problem with many of you not wanting to be "held in the clutches" of such mentality. At the same time since you know shit about it, your statements hold as much water as a sieve.

4. There are only 2 points that I agree on with "me UK mites". If a person is willing to target someone regardless of an alarm or owner having a gun then he is packing anyway. If he thinks the owner has a gun then he more likely to shoot if he knows it going in. However, a burglar is just that and is easily scared away and. FFS even a murderer doesn't want to go through alot of shit to kill you. Unarmed folks get killed ALL THE TIME (sometimes in their sleep) so even you guy's liberal passive point holds little water (see my previous home invasion reference).
The other point I agree on is that gun shows should have background checks.

Someone breaks in my house, the police are called. They cut the line, the police are notified.

Where's the "clutch of oppression".

Many of you are pretty passive when it comes to protecting your family. You place your faith in "the burglar most likely won't hurt me" and it sounds rather bitchy. (also stop watching so much TV. we are not all the security guard that is on the floor during a bank robbery and tries to be a hero.)

This may be due to your crime rate over in the UK. However, we have a much higher rate and it is not due to folks merely protecting their homes. :dry: Many of you have honed in on a very miniscule point that has no validity.

well said as always @busy i love readin your post ;)

[sparsely]

i don't own a gun because umm...there's almost no practical use for them in this century. 90-something percent of us don't need to hunt in order to obtain food, so other than some crap sport of shooting at paper targets or clay discs, there's no need for an ordinary citizen to own one.

not that i think they should be done away with completely either.
in some US states, citizens are allowed to carry a concealed weapon, providing they pass thorough background checks and proficiency training, and also pay a fee (i think it's anually here)
If every individual who wished to own a gun had to meet these same stringent requirements, we'd probably be a lot better off.

[vidcc]

2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.



I think here you are looking at yourself whereas the posters are looking at the news.
YOU may be a sensible person and take all the sensible steps needed to be a responsible gun owner and parent. But that's not what the world sees on the news. They see the results of the irresponsible gun owners, sadly all too often, and the trouble is that innocent bystanders are paying a heavy price.
It would be nice to not only have strictly enforced laws, but perhaps a stupidity test as well :(

[RPerry]

I think here you are looking at yourself whereas the posters are looking at the news.
YOU may be a sensible person and take all the sensible steps needed to be a responsible gun owner and parent. But that's not what the world sees on the news. They see the results of the irresponsible gun owners, sadly all too often, and the trouble is that innocent bystanders are paying a heavy price.
:(

This may be the real issue here. People only know what they see on the news. The news is pretty much curved on the particular area you live in. You only see what they want you to see :ph34r:

[manker]

This may be the real issue here. People only know what they see on the news. The news is pretty much curved on the particular area you live in. You only see what they want you to see :ph34r:Statistics (http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showpost.php?p=1029906&postcount=56) don't lie, Rob.

I'm not basing my views on anything other than common sense, if more people have guns, more people will get shot.

[GepperRankins]

yeah i hate it when the news twist stuff too...

United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26

[Snee]

Many of the you folks are fishing on shit you know nothing about.

1. A home with merely a sign in the yard saying it has an alarm is less likely to get burglarized. Period. If one of you UK folks move here and decide against putting an alarm in you are more likely get your shit taken than one with an alarm. This is not arguable. :dry:
Yes, well done, hooray for you. But again, the sign isn't a gun. Whether you have a sign or an alarm or neither, isn't the issue.



2. I do not have a problem "screwing up" when it comes to gun locks. You come home from the range, you put the fucking lock on. I don't even keep a clip in and no bullet in chamber. You are fishing merely to satisfy you're ill conceived points.
Well done on that too, however, this has no bearing on how you'll handle the gun when you are about to use it against a burglar.

Gun lock or not, burglars may still pick a time when you are drunk, or something else. Which means that you may still shoot yourself in the foot when the times comes.



3. Most of these knuckleheads are shit at shooting. I know since I have hung around them for years (actually was one when I was younger). I have no problem with many of you not wanting to be "held in the clutches" of such mentality. At the same time since you know shit about it, your statements hold as much water as a sieve.
So you've hung around with a few burglars :blink: Again, hooray for you. however, this doesn't mean that you can say with absolute certainty that a majority of all burglars in the US are bound to act in a certain manner.

If one of your old pals decides to break into your home, I guess you are safe though.

I've been wondering about these statements about them being bad shots, I mean, ok if your house is huge and there's a bit of distance between you, but it will probably be a matter of who shoots first in an average size home. It ain't hard hitting someone six feet away, or something similar.



4. There are only 2 points that I agree on with "me UK mites". If a person is willing to target someone regardless of an alarm or owner having a gun then he is packing anyway. If he thinks the owner has a gun then he more likely to shoot if he knows it going in. However, a burglar is just that and is easily scared away and. FFS even a murderer doesn't want to go through alot of shit to kill you. Unarmed folks get killed ALL THE TIME (sometimes in their sleep) so even you guy's liberal passive point holds little water (see my previous home invasion reference).
The other point I agree on is that gun shows should have background checks.
Have you got any statistics at all to prove that your hypothetical burglars are more likely than not to be going to go into your house with the intention of killing you?

If someone really wanted to kill you, your gun would probably not be an issue anyway. They'd get you when you were sleeping or something.



Someone breaks in my house, the police are called. They cut the line, the police are notified.

Where's the "clutch of oppression".

Many of you are pretty passive when it comes to protecting your family. You place your faith in "the burglar most likely won't hurt me" and it sounds rather bitchy. (also stop watching so much TV. we are not all the security guard that is on the floor during a bank robbery and tries to be a hero.)

This may be due to your crime rate over in the UK. However, we have a much higher rate and it is not due to folks merely protecting their homes. :dry: Many of you have honed in on a very miniscule point that has no validity.
While I don't live in the UK, my situation is very similar. We just don't have many guns in this country, period. Nor is our crime-rate as high, why this is so I don't know. What I can say is that you probably aren't the only one to feel safer with a gun, it's bound to lend a lot of people some extra confidence, no matter which side of the law they are currently on.

In most cases, and this is according to unbiased statistics, burglaries in my part of the world take place when the victim isn't at home. If I did have a gun in my home it might well be part of what was stolen while I wasn't at home. A burglar is also more likely than not to flee the site if I do get home while he or she is still there. Normal, sane people aren't out to kill other people, and they don't desire confrontation if they can avoid it. Violence only means an extended period in prison if you get caught.

We get alarms just as you do, and we sometimes put up signs, but again, this has nothing to do with owning a gun.


I fail to see how common sense can be proclaimed to be ill-concieved, what you are stating sounds more like belief and faith than facts, I've yet to see anyone showing me any concrete proof of the benefits of everyone having guns readily available.

I'm far less likely to get killed here than over there, this is a fact, based on numbers.

[vidcc]

This may be the real issue here. People only know what they see on the news. The news is pretty much curved on the particular area you live in. You only see what they want you to see :ph34r:
Well I hardly think anyone would be interested in "non news" such as "today nobody was shot"....although it would be nice if it could actually happen.
I don't think that the news is selective other than the VAST majority of gun crime and "accidents" only gets reported on local news outlets and doesn't get any airtime on national and international media unless it's the big story such as columbine.
If every incident was reported then I believe the anti gun ownership side would be more vocal.

@all

I will not allow my children to play in friends houses that have guns. I will not allow guns on my property. I will not allow my children to become a statistic relating to a "tragic accident"

The USA will never give up its guns, it's an attitude thing. For this we have to accept death and injury in increasing amounts. Every day the amount of guns increases and every day the amount of gun related incidents increases.

And the wheel goes round and round.

[RPerry]

Wh said it was non - news ? They have a facination with sex crimes here, and you can bet when one happens, its reported. on the flip-side, I saw no less than 12 Sheriffs cruisers and a helicopter just to the south of the plant I work in Friday night, not one word on the news.

btw guys, after the guns, do we get rid of the knives too ? :unsure:

[GepperRankins]

knives designed to kill people, sure

[Snee]

Wh said it was non - news ? They have a facination with sex crimes here, and you can bet when one happens, its reported. on the flip-side, I saw no less than 12 Sheriffs cruisers and a helicopter just to the south of the plant I work in Friday night, not one word on the news.

btw guys, after the guns, do we get rid of the knives too ? :unsure:
Knives and guns aren't the same thing, knives are tools, guns are weapons.

Both can kill, but a gun requires less effort and proximity to do so.

Unless you have laws for it already, it probably wouldn't hurt to ban long blades (2"+) in public places tho'.

[RPerry]

Seriously, there are very, very few accidental shooting here. I wish the lot of you could come here and teach defensive driving, because thats and important issue in my community. I can promise you this, On the day I don't come home, it will be because somebody caused an accident with their car, not because I was shot :(

[Snee]

Dunno' where to draw the line between what's accidental and what's not. :unsure:

"I was cleaning my gun and shot my nuts off", is probably accidental any way look at it. Unless it's evolution, or divine providence. :unsure:

But what do you call "I pointed my gun at the burglar to scare him, and I accidentally shot his face off"?

[RPerry]

But what do you call "I pointed my gun at the burglar to scare him, and I accidentally shot his face off"?

Justice :naughty:

[GepperRankins]

whether its accidental or not killing someone with a gun is too easy. i agree with you on driving though, here in the UK it's rediculous. i reckon it's cos it's so easy to get a license :dry: however that makes no difference to gun deaths

[Snee]

Justice :naughty:
Oh, all right :unsure: ( :lol: )

[vidcc]

Wh said it was non - news ? They have a facination with sex crimes here, and you can bet when one happens, its reported. on the flip-side, I saw no less than 12 Sheriffs cruisers and a helicopter just to the south of the plant I work in Friday night, not one word on the news.
The free doughnut event was advertised enough............ surely :rolleyes:



btw guys, after the guns, do we get rid of the knives too ? :unsure:

Then baseball bats, cars, stones.......

I don't really give any weight to the direction of that point, although i was waiting for it to be raised.

It is too late to eliminate our gun problem. No law will ever stop criminal use of guns. But we can do something about the "accidental" side.

[vidcc]

Seriously, there are very, very few accidental shooting here. I wish the lot of you could come here and teach defensive driving, because thats and important issue in my community. I can promise you this, On the day I don't come home, it will be because somebody caused an accident with their car, not because I was shot :(
I agree with you on that but it's a different issue and we can't trade one issue by saying another is worse.

[RPerry]

I agree with you on that but it's a different issue and we can't trade one issue by saying another is worse.

I admire your view on guns, I can only say I don't agree. Florida is a right to carry state ( you must have a clean record, and go through a firearms class) and it does seem to curve some of the problems other states have. Its not perfect, what ever is ?

[vidcc]

. Florida is a right to carry state ( you must have a clean record, and go through a firearms class)

This is close to what I would like to see, I would like zero guns but lets be realistic. I don't see any way of banning guns but I would like to see tougher standards and enforcement of those standards.
I can't agree with carrying guns in public, but I do give the idea of having them in ones home if one wishes, assuming certain safety standards are met.


I would like not only background checks but also compulsory training to at least the minimum law enforcement standard. I would like to see attitude standards as part of it as well. A cadet would be weeded out and expelled if he didn't have the right attitude and I would like that to apply in the training and assessment procedure.
If groups like the NRA truly believe that guns don't kill people, people kill people they would support such sensible training for these deadly items.

[Busyman]

Yes, well done, hooray for you. But again, the sign isn't a gun. Whether you have a sign or an alarm or neither, isn't the issue.
Well you are not the only one posting. Apparently me having an alarm or privacy fence is being "in the grip of oppression".


Well done on that too, however, this has no bearing on how you'll handle the gun when you are about to use it against a burglar.
When you drive what's to say you aren't shit at handling a car (and put more people in danger than me and my gun that take out so sparingly). You probably drive ten time more often than I use my gun.
You have nunch-chuckas. What's to say you aren't shit at that too and bust yourself in the eye. You are fishing once again.


Gun lock or not, burglars may still pick a time when you are drunk, or something else. Which means that you may still shoot yourself in the foot when the times comes.
I don't get drunk at home. Either way, fishing expedition.


So you've hung around with a few burglars :blink: Again, hooray for you. however, this doesn't mean that you can say with absolute certainty that a majority of all burglars in the US are bound to act in a certain manner.
No shit.


If one of your old pals decides to break into your home, I guess you are safe though.
...but they aren't.


I've been wondering about these statements about them being bad shots, I mean, ok if your house is huge and there's a bit of distance between you, but it will probably be a matter of who shoots first in an average size home. It ain't hard hitting someone six feet away, or something similar.
Fishing again. This is not the movies. You don't go investigating. When having a gun it's not always wise to shoot. Example..

At work I missed being caught up in a bank robbery by 10 minutes (I was talking to a female I knew and she held me up). The guard from the armored truck went in but a gentleman walked in behind him with flower box in his hand. The robber pulled out a shotgun and the guard drew his weapon and shot the robber. You would think that was heroic but it wasn't whole story. Some of the guard's shot missed the robber and went clear across McPherson Square and into a mult tenant building a block away. McPherson Square is basically a park in the middle of downtown DC and it's one full square block. People go there to feed pigeons, read a book, bums beg for money (or sleep), etc. Luckily no one was killed.
The robber put many lives in danger and by his own, training should have given up the money. However....you can't say that the robber would not have blown away the guard anyway. He might have very saved his own skin.


Have you got any statistics at all to prove that your hypothetical burglars are more likely than not to be going to go into your house with the intention of killing you?
No do you? Gotta point? I have a gun for just in case shit and not to blow away any person I can.


If someone really wanted to kill you, your gun would probably not be an issue anyway. They'd get you when you were sleeping or something.No shit. They could get me as I walk out my front door. Again, gotta point?


While I don't live in the UK, my situation is very similar. We just don't have many guns in this country, period. Nor is our crime-rate as high, why this is so I don't know. What I can say is that you probably aren't the only one to feel safer with a gun, it's bound to lend a lot of people some extra confidence, no matter which side of the law they are currently on.Uh huh. I also would safer in combat with a tank versus a jeep. Gotta point?


In most cases, and this is according to unbiased statistics, burglaries in my part of the world take place when the victim isn't at home. If I did have a gun in my home it might well be part of what was stolen while I wasn't at home. A burglar is also more likely than not to flee the site if I do get home while he or she is still there. Normal, sane people aren't out to kill other people, and they don't desire confrontation if they can avoid it. Violence only means an extended period in prison if you get caught.
Stating the obvious.....


We get alarms just as you do, and we sometimes put up signs, but again, this has nothing to do with owning a gun.
Then the alarm post wasn't for you or I would have quoted just you or did a @SnnY shit doohicky.


I fail to see how common sense can be proclaimed to be ill-concieved, what you are stating sounds more like belief and faith than facts, I've yet to see anyone showing me any concrete proof of the benefits of everyone having guns readily available.
I wouldn't want everyone having guns readily available. That's part of the problem. You've got fathers that don't lock their shit up, and I'm not talking about they forgot, I'm talking about not locking it up and allowing their sons to play them.


I'm far less likely to get killed here than over there, this is a fact, based on numbers.
No shit....we have a higher crime rate. :blink:
The problem with many of you guys conclusions is those numbers is numbers is that correlation does not equal cause and effect.

You can't necessarily group me, RP, j2, and buju in with criminals (or each other). I wouldn't bring my guns to my new house until I had gun locks (4 year-old now present). Someone else might have done it anyway but I happen to be paranoid about a child dying over some "I forgot" bullshit.

[RPerry]

You can't necessarily group me, RP, j2, and buju in with criminals (or each other). I wouldn't bring my guns to my new house until I had gun locks (4 year-old now present). Someone else might have done it anyway but I happen to be paranoid about a child dying over some "I forgot" bullshit.

I would hope I wouldn't be grouped with criminals :ohmy: I make a habit out of not taking what doesn't belong to me.

I do like Vidcc's Idea of more training though. Anything that can help is a good thing, and can only make the situation better. I don't think they should only be allowed in the home though. Remember, I have already stated things are different according to where you live. Being I live in a tourist area, I would be more likely to have a problem in public, than in my own home.

[Snee]

When you drive what's to say you aren't shit at handling a car (and put more people in danger than me and my gun that take out so sparingly). You probably drive ten time more often than I use my gun.
I don't drive at all atm. But if I did the car would still be a tool for transport, not a deadly weapon. Cars are necessary for getting from one point to another, guns aren't. It's not a valid parallell, as they are totally different animals.



You have nunch-chuckas. What's to say you aren't shit at that too and bust yourself in the eye. You are fishing once again.
No, I don't, but even if I did, and did bust myself in the eye, it still doesn't compare with owning a gun. Accidentally discharge that and you might take someone out at the other side of the street, bash yourself with a nun-chuck in the eye, and you get a black eye.



I don't get drunk at home. Either way, fishing expedition.
Not sure I wanna' comment on that one. But I can say this, you might not get drunk at home, but I'm pretty sure you've gone home drunk at some point in your life.

The point tho', was that no one is perfect, at some point in your life you are bound to be performing below par when it comes to perception and coordination (you might have a fever, or be eating pain-killers), not to mention judgement-wise, if you do have a gun in the house, and you get the notion to use it, that's when an accident is more likely to happen.

This is a fact, and a point, hope you can grasp the concept.


Fishing again. This is not the movies. You don't go investigating. When having a gun it's not always wise to shoot. Example..

At work I missed being caught up in a bank robbery by 10 minutes (I was talking to a female I knew and she held me up). The guard from the armored truck went in but a gentleman walked in behind him with flower box in his hand. The robber pulled out a shotgun and the guard drew his weapon and shot the robber. You would think that was heroic but it wasn't whole story. Some of the guard's shot missed the robber and went clear across McPherson Square and into a mult tenant building a block away. McPherson Square is basically a park in the middle of downtown DC and it's one full square block. People go there to feed pigeons, read a book, bums beg for money (or sleep), etc. Luckily no one was killed.
The robber put many lives in danger and by his own, training should have given up the money. However....you can't say that the robber would not have blown away the guard anyway. He might have very saved his own skin.
His occupation includes handling a gun, he's not carrying that gun around 24/7. At the very least he's weeks, not to say months of basic training with regards to handling assailants as well as discharging firearms ahead of you.

If there's a day when he can't perform, he won't go to work. Anyone who attacks him at work is going to go after him when he's alert, awake, sober and so forth.

Someone who gets robbed in the middle of the night doesn't have that luxury.

Of course you don't go looking for trouble, no more than the guard, but that doesn't mean that you won't get caught off guard, or that you'll have time prepare yourself for them in the best possible place you can think of.



No do you? Gotta point? I have a gun for just in case shit and not to blow any person I can.

Yeah, the point is that you seem to assume that they are out to get you, if they aren't and you act in a threatening manner, then they might feel the need to take you out tho'. Scared or nervous people are dangerous people.


No shit. They could get me as I walk out my front door. Again, gotta point?
Yeah, most likely THEY AREN'T OUT TO KILL YOU, OK?


Uh huh. I also would safer in combat with a tank versus a jeep. Gotta point?
If no one is scared 'cos everyone is packing, then nobody wins.


Stating the obvious.....
If it's so obvious, why do you sound as if you expect them to break into your home and try to kill you?



Then the alarm post wasn't for you or I would have quoted just you or did a @SnnY shit doohicky.
I know it wasn't aimed at me specifically.

But still, this topic is about guns, and the fact that you feel the need to have every possible safeguard I'd use, and then some, even a gun, merits comment.

I think the original comment was intended to be read just so, no one thinks it's odd that you want alarms, or fences. It's the fact that you've got safeguard upon safeguard, with a gun on top, that seems strange.

That implies a whole lot more fear than I need to feel.



I wouldn't want everyone having guns readily available. That's part of the problem. You've got fathers that don't lock their shit up, and I'm not talking about they forgot, I'm talking about not locking it up and allowing their sons to play them.
I'm with you there. I also think it's admirable that you've taken those precautions you have.

It's the acceptance of guns as something necessary I've got issues with. I'd rather work from the assumption that any one who burglarizes me will do so when I'm not home. I think the chance of you needing the gun is smaller than the risk of an accident. but that's just the way I'd play the odds.

That's the key to this entire argument I think, how we'd play the odds.


No shit....we have a higher crime rate. :blink:
The problem with many of you guys conclusions is those numbers is numbers is that correlation does not equal cause and effect.

You can't necessarily group me, RP, j2, and buju in with criminals (or each other). I wouldn't bring my guns to my new house until I had gun locks (4 year-old now present). Someone else might have done it anyway but I happen to be paranoid about a child dying over some "I forgot" bullshit.
Nor is it possible to dismiss all accidental shootings as the actions of idiots, even those who take every precaution can make mistakes.

It's just something that happens, there's no such thing as a perfect human being, and nor is there such a thing as a person that doesn't make the occasional mistake.

However, the paranoia is good, it's the "I don't make mistakes" I've got problems with. That seems overconfident.





Having said that, if someone has to have a gun, I'd much prefer it to be only you and not capt. azztard, especially if I had to live nearby.

And lastly, fishing implies implausibility, nothing of what I have said is beyond the realm of possibility. Asking for a point, or dismissing something as fishing fills no purpose, it's sort of the same thing as saying you don't have an answer, IMO.

[vidcc]

I don't think they should only be allowed in the home though. Remember, I have already stated things are different according to where you live. Being I live in a tourist area, I would be more likely to have a problem in public, than in my own home.

And with that "in public" part my concerns increase infinitely and why I would want as the very minimum standard the same standard law enforcement officers have to go through. This not only includes gun handling but also tough training to cope with hostile situations in a professional manner and not just a vigilante manner. I would also expect any "civilian" that discharged their weapon in public to be tried for murder if they hit and killed a bystander.
I may seem to be a hard lined anti gun activist but this is just appearance. My concerns are directed at the "stupid" part of our laws coupled with the many people that have either a gung ho "dirty harry wannabe" attitude or those that only have heads to stop the rain going down their necks...or worse still... both.

There are people that can quite safely have guns and act responsibly ...unfortunately there is a significant amount of people that don't fit this description. :(

[Busyman]

I don't drive at all atm. But if I did the car would still be a tool for transport, not a deadly weapon. Cars are necessary for getting from one point to another, guns aren't. It's not a valid parallell, as they are totally different animals.
It's very valid. People fuck others up with negligent driving more than there are accidental shooting deaths whether or not the car was intended as a weapon. I use a gun to protect my family when and if that ever comes up and yet you haved focused on miniscule point.


No, I don't, but even if I did, and did bust myself in the eye, it still doesn't compare with owning a gun. Accidentally discharge that and you might take someone out at the other side of the street, bash yourself with a nun-chuck in the eye, and you get a black eye.
With a gun, I might also save my life and families life. We can might all day long. This is why I said you are fishing.


Not sure I wanna' comment on that one. But I can say this, you might not get drunk at home, but I'm pretty sure you've gone home drunk at some point in your life.
Uh huh and drunk driving deaths exceed accidental shootings......... :lol: :lol:


The point tho', was that no one is perfect, at some point in your life you are bound to be performing below par when it comes to perception and coordination (you might have a fever, or be eating pain-killers), not to mention judgement-wise, if you do have a gun in the house, and you get the notion to use it, that's when an accident is more likely to happen.
This is a fact, and a point, hope you can grasp the concept..
Listen to yourself. You are mighting like crazy now. I might have a fever? Get a grip. I could point out many facts about driving deaths and say we should outlaw cars. :blink: "You might be drowsy coming home and doze off and hit a family of 4." :ermm:


His occupation includes handling a gun, he's not carrying that gun around 24/7. At the very least he's weeks, not to say months of basic training with regards to handling assailants as well as discharging firearms ahead of you.

If there's a day when he can't perform, he won't go to work. Anyone who attacks him at work is going to go after him when he's alert, awake, sober and so forth.

Someone who gets robbed in the middle of the night doesn't have that luxury.

Of course you don't go looking for trouble, no more than the guard, but that doesn't mean that you won't get caught off guard, or that you'll have time prepare yourself for them in the best possible place you can think of.
You apparently missed the point. The guard fucked up but again did he? He was trained yet endangered the lives of people in a multi-tenant building and a park?


Yeah, the point is that you seem to assume that they are out to get you, if they aren't and you act in a threatening manner, then they might feel the need to take you out tho'. Scared or nervous people are dangerous people.


Yeah, most likely THEY AREN'T OUT TO KILL YOU, OK?
Riiiight they just want to take my stuff....most likely. What about when I don't have a "most likely" burglar? I have made this point over and over about a just in case situation yet you seem to miss it conveniently.



If no one is scared 'cos everyone is packing, then nobody wins.
Uh yeah...whatever that means. It sounds like a goes without saying moment.



If it's so obvious, why do you sound as if you expect them to break into your home and try to kill you?
For nth time...
You can pussy up and be that one instance that the burglar blows you away 'cause he wants to flex. Since you are much into stats and googling, explain why when many people get carjacked they get shot anyway when the victim was giving up their keys. You would love to say that they put up a struggle but I know differently. People kill just because sometimes even when taking your shit. Children are killed in their beds...what threat were they?

Your logic doesn't work here. I tell you that I wouldn't go down to cap the burglar and conveniently "forget" that point to cover yours.


I know it wasn't aimed at me specifically.

But still, this topic is about guns, and the fact that you feel the need to have every possible safeguard I'd use, and then some, even a gun, merits comment.

I think the original comment was intended to be read just so, no one thinks it's odd that you want alarms, or fences. It's the fact that you've got safeguard upon safeguard, with a gun on top, that seems strange.

That implies a whole lot more fear than I need to feel.
So be it. If the situation ever arose that someone is coming to your children's bedroom then you sit on the fence and STFU.

I'M A JUST IN CASE KINDA GUY. :dry:


I'm with you there. I also think it's admirable that you've taken those precautions you have.

It's the acceptance of guns as something necessary I've got issues with. I'd rather work from the assumption that any one who burglarizes me will do so when I'm not home. I think the chance of you needing the gun is smaller than the risk of an accident. but that's just the way I'd play the odds.

That's the key to this entire argument I think, how we'd play the odds.
The problem with your odds is that when your number comes up, your odds are near 0. When mine comes up, I actually have a chance (and so does my kid).



Nor is it possible to dismiss all accidental shootings as the actions of idiots, even those who take every precaution can make mistakes.

It's just something that happens, there's no such thing as a perfect human being, and nor is there such a thing as a person that doesn't make the occasional mistake.

However, the paranoia is good, it's the "I don't make mistakes" I've got problems with. That seems overconfident.
I bet most accidental shootings are from the actions of idiots. I have never fallen off a telephone pole. Can't say that I won't but I have a certain process for climbing and don't deviate. It is ingrained and so is my handling of a gun.


Having said that, if someone has to have a gun, I'd much prefer it to be only you and not capt. azztard, especially if I had to live nearby.

And lastly, fishing implies implausibility, nothing of what I have said is beyond the realm of possibility. Asking for a point, or dismissing something as fishing fills no purpose, it's sort of the same thing as saying you don't have an answer, IMO.
No actually fishing implies plausibilty with remote validity. It implies many "ifs" and "buts" no matter what another's answer may be.
Remember your "fever" reference? :lol: :lol: "Hey I could step on thumb tack or a spider could bite me and threaten my concentration."

Fishing... :dry:

[Busyman]

And with that "in public" part my concerns increase infinitely and why I would want as the very minimum standard the same standard law enforcement officers have to go through. This not only includes gun handling but also tough training to cope with hostile situations in a professional manner and not just a vigilante manner. I would also expect any "civilian" that discharged their weapon in public to be tried for murder if they hit and killed a bystander.
I may seem to be a hard lined anti gun activist but this is just appearance. My concerns are directed at the "stupid" part of our laws coupled with the many people that have either a gung ho "dirty harry wannabe" attitude or those that only have heads to stop the rain going down their necks...or worse still... both.

There are people that can quite safely have guns and act responsibly ...unfortunately there is a significant amount of people that don't fit this description. :(
You don't sound anywhere near like a hard-lined gun activist. Your points are valid but it's nothing I haven't heard before.

A hard-lined gun activist would sue gunmakers for shooting deaths. It reminds me of 9/11 victims families suing the owners of the WTC. A hard-lined gun activist would remove the ability to buy guns without considering that criminals don't "buy" guns.

I would make gun owners responsible for deaths committed with their guns in most circumstances. Maybe they'll make sure to keep them locked up.

[Snee]

It's very valid. People fuck others up with negligent driving more than there are accidental shooting deaths whether or not the car was intended as a weapon. I use a gun to protect my family when and if that ever comes up and yet you haved focused on miniscule point.

It is not a minuscule point. Guns are lethal with the intention of being so. Cars aren't, we need cars to lead life the way we do. We don't need guns. You might live your life without ever having your house broken into, a majority of all people do just that.

You buy a gun on the off-chance that you might, just possibly, need it one day. And you are complaining about my "mights"? :blink:

Besides, logic dictates that cars would cause more deaths as they are used way more frequently than guns. For every bullet fired in your country, a car has rolled miles upon miles. At least they have a function other than causing harm.


With a gun, I might also save my life and families life. We can might all day long. This is why I said you are fishing.
Sure, you might do that, but on the other hand it's always in your home, a potential and highly substantial risk.


Uh huh and drunk driving deaths exceed accidental shootings......... :lol: :lol:
Yeah they do, but that doesn't mean the "lesser" risk doesn't exist.



Listen to yourself. You are mighting like crazy now. I might have a fever? Get a grip. I could point out many facts about driving deaths and say we should outlaw cars. :blink: "You might be drowsy coming home and doze off and hit a family of 4." :ermm:
I do believe we are both doing it if so.

The thing is that risks exist even if we don't want them to. Cars aren't guns, risks involved with one doesn't have any bearing on risks involved with using another.



You apparently missed the point. The guard fucked up but again did he? He was trained yet endangered the lives of people in a multi-tenant building and a park?
No you missed the point, he screwed up, and this with far more training than you have.

And this when it was pretty much guaranteed that his mind, perception and judgement were in no way impaired.


Riiiight they just want to take my stuff....most likely. What about when I don't have a "most likely" burglar? I have made this point over and over about a just in case situation yet you seem to miss it conveniently.
True, you might not, but then again you might surprise an armed burglar with no intention of harming you, until he sees your gun.

If he wants to hurt you, those nice signs of yours have tipped him off anyway, if he really wants to get to you no amount of precautions on your part are going to stop him, and maybe a few of his closest friends from visiting.


Uh yeah...whatever that means. It sounds like a goes without saying moment.
Yeah, if everyone owns a gun, no one is more safe than if nobody did.




For nth time...
You can pussy up and be that one instance that the burglar blows you away 'cause he wants to flex. Since you are much into stats and googling, explain why when many people get carjacked they get shot anyway when the victim was giving up their keys. You would love to say that they put up a struggle but I know differently. People kill just because sometimes even when taking your shit. Children are killed in their beds...what threat were they?

Your logic doesn't work here. I tell you that I wouldn't go down to cap the burglar and conveniently "forget" that point to cover yours.
I fail to see how not living in fear is equal to "pussying up".

Given the situation in the US where everyone is packing, that might be the only way to be sure of conducting a successful carjack.

But if so many people own weapons over there, have a go at explaining why so many people get shot during carjacks even though they have guns.

If I was mad enough to try that in the US, I'd sure as hell go in firing, and I'd make sure I was doing it before you realised I was about to try it too.

I reckon those people would get popped, gun or not.


So be it. If the situation ever arose that someone is coming to your children's bedroom then you sit on the fence and STFU.

I'M A JUST IN CASE KINDA GUY. :dry:
I've noticed.

We look at risk differently. I'm not taking responsiblity of accidently shooting someone, or getting someone shot because of something I do, you'll point your gun at them and hope for the best.

Neither way is guaranteed to succeed.



The problem with your odds is that when your number comes up, your odds are near 0. When mine comes up, I actually have a chance (and so does my kid).
Unless it happens because you made a mistake that could have been avoided had you not held a gun.


I bet accidental shootings are from the actions of idiots. I have never fallen off a telephone pole. Can't say that I won't but I have a certain process for climbing and don't deviate. It is ingrained and so is my handling of a gun.
Just like car-accidents and plane-crashes, accidental shootings sometimes happen to perfectly ordinary people.

But, yes, you are less likely to shoot yourself or someone else, than an idiot with a gun.



No actually fishing implies plausibilty with remote validity. It implies many "ifs" and "buts" no matter what another's answer may be.
Remember your "fever" reference? :lol: :lol: "Hey I could step on thumb tack or a spider could bite me and threaten my concentration."

Fishing... :dry:
No, it implies that something lacks validity. The implication was that my arguments lacked a foundation, and that I was grasping for straws.

As in the case of the possibility of you having a fever, my points are perfectly valid, and possible. People frequently suffer from illness, you know. Whereas your proposed, equally valid in your opinion :blink: , scenario is far less likely.

Unless you are some kind of extra special super-mutant who can't get ill, of course.

[Snee]

I'll try and give this a response it deserves, later on. I fear I have to drop this now, however, as I too have things to do, incredible as it may seem. :D

Thanks for realizing that you might not have been at your most diplomatic tho'.

Nor have I probably, today.

[Busyman]

It is not a minuscule point. Guns are lethal with the intention of being so. Cars aren't, we need cars to lead life the way we do. We don't need guns. You might live your life without ever having your house broken into, a majority of all people do just that.

You buy a gun on the off-chance that you might, just possibly, need it one day. And you are complaining about my "mights"? :blink:

Besides, logic dictates that cars would cause more deaths as they are used way more frequently than guns. For every bullet fired in your country, a car has rolled miles upon miles. At least they have a function other than causing harm.


Sure, you might do that, but on the other hand it's always in your home, a potential and highly substantial risk.


Yeah they do, but that doesn't mean the "lesser" risk doesn't exist.



I do believe we are both doing it if so.

The thing is that risks exist even if we don't want them to. Cars aren't guns, risks involved with one doesn't have any bearing on risks involved with using another.



No you missed the point, he screwed up, and this with far more training than you have.

And this when it was pretty much guaranteed that his mind, perception and judgement were in no way impaired.


True, you might not, but then again you might surprise an armed burglar with no intention of harming you, until he sees your gun.

If he wants to hurt you, those nice signs of yours have tipped him off anyway, if he really wants to get to you no amount of precautions on your part are going to stop him, and maybe a few of his closest friends from visiting.


Yeah, if everyone owns a gun, no one is more safe than if nobody did.




I fail to see how not living in fear is equal to "pussying up".

Given the situation in the US where everyone is packing, that might be the only way to be sure of conducting a successful carjack.

But if so many people own weapons over there, have a go at explaining why so many people get shot during carjacks even though they have guns.

If I was mad enough to try that in the US, I'd sure as hell go in firing, and I'd make sure I was doing it before you realised I was about to try it too.

I reckon those people would get popped, gun or not.


I've noticed.

We look at risk differently. I'm not taking responsiblity of accidently shooting someone, or getting someone shot because of something I do, you'll point your gun at them and hope for the best.

Neither way is guaranteed to succeed.



Unless it happens because you made a mistake that could have been avoided had you not held a gun.


Just like car-accidents and plane-crashes, accidental shootings sometimes happen to perfectly ordinary people.

But, yes, you are less likely to shoot yourself or someone else, than an idiot with a gun.



No, it implies that something lacks validity. The implication was that my arguments lacked a foundation, and that I was grasping for straws.

As in the case of the possibility of you having a fever, my points are perfectly valid, and possible. People frequently suffer from illness, you know. Whereas your proposed, equally valid in your opinion :blink: , scenario is far less likely.

Unless you are some kind of extra special super-mutant who can't get ill, of course.
Well you are grasping at straws. Saying that I can a fever and then relate it to handling a gun on the very oft chance they would happen at the same time and then to further that say that it will affect judgement is....fishing.

I tell you I handle my gun rarely yet because you just don't like guns, find any remote reason to say it's a bad thing to have one. This could done with ANYTHING.

Further prove as to the "you don't know what you are talking about" department is that not everyone is packing. You even conveniently added the carjackers kill people because everyone has a gun. :lol: :lol:
I know that people get shot simply because some robbers think it's easier to have no one screaming and moving around and just take what they want.

Btw using the word might on my part directly correlates to my reason for owning a gun. Yours is a fishing expedition.

Logic dictates that my owning a gun could save my life. Having it my house is not a risk since it is locked. It is loaded at the gun range and unloaded before I leave there.

Your views of America are born out of ignorance. I couldn't claim to know of your area having not been there. This is not Beirut.

Watch F9/11 again or something. Gun activists focus on those that improperly hande guns to prove a point and ignore those with proper handling. You got me mixed up son.

[DanB]

You got me mixed up son.

Busyman = [B][O][T] ??? :unsure:

[GepperRankins]

busy has a gun but no ammo? a sure fire way to get yourself shot i'd say :rolleyes:


Watch F9/11 again or something. Gun activists focus on those that improperly handle guns to prove a point and ignore those with proper handling. You got me mixed up son.

guns have no place in modern society, so it is possible to live with no guns and then there would be no improper use of them.

i started reading this page backwards and got bored there, please to be not spouting meaningless drivel :)

[sparsely]

honestly, if the area you live in is so bad that you feel you need a gun to go about your daily affairs, or to sleep okay at night, then you don't need to buy a firearm, you need to fucking move.

or if it's just paranoia, get some drugs.

[Cheese]

If I lived in an area where I felt I needed to arm myself to protect my home I'd get a non-lethal weapon. Like a stun-gun. I'd test it out on my landlady's dog.

[GepperRankins]

honestly, if the area you live in is so bad that you feel you need a gun to go about your daily affairs, or to sleep okay at night, then you don't need to buy a firearm, you need to fucking move.

or if it's just paranoia, get some drugs.
maybe put all the gun nuts in one state and guard the border. then let the problem solve itself

[sparsely]

ooh, and they can call it "Texas" :lol:

[RPerry]

If I lived in an area where I felt I needed to arm myself to protect my home I'd get a non-lethal weapon. Like a stun-gun. I'd test it out on my landlady's dog.

funny you should say non-leathal. Theres an ongoing issue here concerning stun guns, that they can cause death, and that police are using them too often :rolleyes:

[Busyman]

honestly, if the area you live in is so bad that you feel you need a gun to go about your daily affairs, or to sleep okay at night, then you don't need to buy a firearm, you need to fucking move.

or if it's just paranoia, get some drugs.
Need? I live in a farm area. However...just in case.....

I don't walk around with one. :blink:

@Gep - No ammo? :blink:

[GepperRankins]

Logic dictates that my owning a gun could save my life. Having it my house is not a risk since it is locked. It is loaded at the gun range and unloaded before I leave there...

[sparsely]

Need? I live in a farm area. However...just in case.....

I don't walk around with one. :blink:

@Gep - No ammo? :blink:


just in case of what? Renegade sheep, seeking revenge for nocturnal violations??
well, let's not get into that. ;)

Well, since you seem to not live in a very dangerous climate, you seem to be leaning toward the 'fear and ignorance' lifestyle.

goodluck with that. :)

[Formula1]

Need? I live in a farm area. However...just in case.....

I don't walk around with one. :blink:

@Gep - No ammo? :blink:

There are farms in washington DC :blink:

Anyway Busy is right. No matter where you move or live in the united states you really aren't "safe" from any kind of murder, people.

[sparsely]

nothing makes you 100% safe, fool.
owning a gun doesn't suddenly swing the universe in your favor. :rolleyes:
maybe if you threaten it!

point your gun at the ground and tell the earth it better not fuck with you!

[MCHeshPants420]

funny you should say non-leathal. Theres an ongoing issue here concerning stun guns, that they can cause death, and that police are using them too often :rolleyes:

That's why I'd test it out on the dog. I suppose I could get one of those bean-bag guns instead. Though a non-lethal weapon is always going to be less lethal than a gun...

[Busyman]

..
Your point? :blink:

[GepperRankins]

surely unloaded means no ammo in it :unsure:

[Busyman]

just in case of what? Renegade sheep, seeking revenge for nocturnal violations??
well, let's not get into that. ;)

Well, since you seem to not live in a very dangerous climate, you seem to be leaning toward the 'fear and ignorance' lifestyle.

goodluck with that. :)
WTF do you ignorant fucks get this fear shit from?

It's simple...I have a gun just in case a dumbfuck decides to run up on me at my house.

If one elects not to have one then good for him.

I don't sit around looking for noises and run to grab the gun at the first sign of leaves blowing. :lol: :lol:

You sound like an ignorant pussy.

[GepperRankins]

how many unarmed people are killed in thier houses by gunmen in america?

[Busyman]

surely unloaded means no ammo in it :unsure:
Uh huh.

[Busyman]

how many unarmed people are killed in thier houses by gunmen in america?
I have no idea.

[manker]

WTF do you ignorant fucks get this fear shit from?

It's simple...I have a gun just in case a dumbfuck decides to run up on me at my house.

If one elects not to have one then good for him.

I don't sit around looking for noises and run to grab the gun at the first sign of leaves blowing. :lol: :lol:

You sound like an ignorant pussy.Where do you get off calling people ignorant fucks.

You ask where we get the fear shit from and then you tell us that you're scared of some dumbfuck who might rob you.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SCARED OF.

I reckon from the description we live in areas with similar crime rate. However, I'm not scared so I don't have a gun.

[Peerzy]

This thread proves why America has so many issues. Anyone makes one wrong move and they get ther head blown off by some 16 year old tosser who's seen Die Hard and owns a fucking shotgun.

[Busyman]

Where do you get off calling people ignorant fucks.

You ask where we get the fear shit from and then you tell us that you're scared of some dumbfuck who might rob you.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SCARED OF.

I reckon from the description we live in areas with similar crime rate. However, I'm not scared so I don't have a gun.

you seem to be leaning toward the 'fear and ignorance' lifestyle.
That's where I get off.
Scared and prepared are two different things. :dry:

[Busyman]

This thread proves why America has so many issues. Anyone makes one wrong move and they get ther head blown off by some 16 year old tosser who's seen Die Hard and owns a fucking shotgun.
You watch too much TV.

Stay in DisneyWorld.

[manker]

That's where I get off.
Scared and prepared are two different things. :dry:You're prepared (sic) because you're scared.

Can't have it both ways, if you weren't scared you wouldn't feel the need for a gun. Nothing to be ashamed of, it's just how you feel.

[Busyman]

You're prepared (sic) because you're scared.

Can't have it both ways, if you weren't scared you wouldn't feel the need for a gun. Nothing to be ashamed of, it's just how you feel.
Your words not mine.

I don't around saying I'm scared someone will break in.

Being scared to me means it weighs on your mind. Like you think about it every day.

I don't.

[manker]

Your words not mine.

I don't around saying I'm scared someone will break in.

Being scared to me means it weighs on your mind. Like you think about it every day.

I don't.Actions speak louder than words.

You don't say you're scared, even now. However, it's plain to see that you are - you feel it necessary to have six fecking guns in the house.

FFS, take a look from the outside. Your lifestyle screams - I'm fucking scared of burglars.


I don't think about big dogs every day, I'm still scared of them tho'.

[Busyman]

Actions speak louder than words.

You don't say you're scared, even now. However, it's plain to see that you are - you feel it necessary to have six fecking guns in the house.

FFS, take a look from the outside. Your lifestyle screams - I'm fucking scared of burglars.


I don't think about big dogs every day, I'm still scared of them tho'.
That's my point....what lifestyle?

Are you scared of a burglar breaking in?

[manker]

That's my point....what lifestyle?

Are you scared of a burglar breaking in?You know when I said that you've got six fecking guns in the house. That's what I meant - having six guns in your house is a lifestyle choice, therefore it is part of your lifestyle.

That particular part of your lifestyle is shouting that you're so scared. How clear do you want me to be. I can use bigger font but ... meh.

No, I'm not scared of a burglar breaking in. I think I've already said that.

Dogs - big dogs - that's what scares me. Call it a draw if you like ;)

[Busyman]

You know when I said that you've got six fecking guns in the house. That's what I meant - having six guns in your house is a lifestyle choice, therefore it is part of your lifestyle.

That particular part of your lifestyle is shouting that you're so scared. How clear do you want me to be. I can use bigger font but ... meh.

No, I'm not scared of a burglar breaking in. I think I've already said that.

Dogs - big dogs - that's what scares me. Call it a draw if you like ;)
If you ain't scared why should I be?

Having something in your house is not a lifestyle choice.

I also have an old aquarium that I don't use, is that a lifestyle choice?

So you don't have guns but you aren't scared. I'm guessing if I kept a bat in the house then I'm scared (or anything for that matter)? :unsure:

Crap logic.

[manker]

If you ain't scared why should I be?

Having something in your house is not a lifestyle choice.

I also have an old aquarium that I don't use, is that a lifestyle choice?

So you don't have guns but you aren't scared. I'm guessing if I kept a bat in the house then I'm scared (or anything for that matter)? :unsure:

Crap logic.I say that owning SIX guns for the sole purpose of guarding your house means that you're scared of intruders.

You say that's crap logic.

Just what fucking planet are you on :lol:

[vidcc]

No, I'm not scared of a burglar breaking in. I think I've already said that.

I have heard that all the Welsh burglars cross over to England to teach those b***ards a lesson... and no English burglar go to Wales as you can't sell a hookey betamax vcr or a coal fired TV.

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/coats1.gif

[MCHeshPants420]

Six guns ffs? Who are you expecting to burgle your house? Saruman and his orc army?

[manker]

I have heard that all the Welsh burglars cross over to England to teach those b***ards a lesson... and no English burglar go to Wales as you can't sell a hookey betamax vcr or a coal fired TV.

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/coats1.gif:ohmy:

Teh insinuation.

Our burglars are probably much more discerning than that :snooty:

[Busyman]

I say that owning SIX guns for the sole purpose of guarding your house means that you're scared of intruders.

You say that's crap logic.

Just what fucking planet are you on :lol:
Will get a fucking clue then.

I believe in just in case shit.

If and only if trouble arises I'm not caught with my pants down in a room in my house with no weapon. Quite simple dipshit.

Otherwise, I ain't worried about it.

It's only remotely possible I'll have a break in so scared ain't in the vocab.

My red light went on when reading about some home invasions years ago.
You harp on this lifestyle and oppression bullshit when it even all that.

If you were over here saying that people would look at you like :huh: .

I remember someone saying that one fella may shoot another in a squable because he's afraid of getting his ass-kicked in a fist fight.

I know that many times that the shooter can be as big as an ox and whip ass. Shooting saves the trouble.

[vidcc]

If and only if trouble arises I'm not caught with my pants down in a room in my house with no weapon.
http://www.spacespider.net/emo/happy001.gif

[manker]

Will get a fucking clue then.

I believe in just in case shit.

If and only if trouble arises I'm not caught with my pants down in a room in my house with no weapon. Quite simple dipshit.

Otherwise, I ain't worried about it.

It's only remotely possible I'll have a break in so scared ain't in the vocab.

My red light went on when reading about some home invasions years ago.
You harp on this lifestyle and oppression bullshit when it even all that.

If you were over here saying that people would look at you like :huh: .

I remember someone saying that one fella may shoot another in a squable because he's afraid of getting his ass-kicked in a fist fight.

I know that many times that the shooter can be as big as an ox and whip ass. Shooting saves the trouble.I thought you said that you don't drink at home. Wtf is this nonsense.

You call people ignorant fucks and now you're calling me a dipshit when I'm pointing out the nose on your face. I aint getting drawn into your off-topic irrelevance, you said you're not scared of intruders, I'm saying that not only are you scared - you're probably the most scared person on this entire forum!

You protect yourself from things that you're scared of. You don't protect yourself from things that you're not scared of. Again, I'm scared of big dogs so I try to guard against going near them, I'm not scared of cats therefore I'm not bothered about them coming near me.

It's that simple. You're scared, you react to the fear. You're not scared, you do feck all.

[GepperRankins]

ive already said it. the fact that busyman doesn't seem to understand any non-americans is the american psyche that i reckon is responsible for their gun culture

[Busyman]

I thought you said that you don't drink at home. Wtf is this nonsense.

You call people ignorant fucks and now you're calling me a dipshit when I'm pointing out the nose on your face. I aint getting drawn into your off-topic irrelevance, you said you're not scared of intruders, I'm saying that not only are you scared - you're probably the most scared person on this entire forum!

You protect yourself from things that you're scared of. You don't protect yourself from things that you're not scared of. Again, I'm scared of big dogs so I try to guard against going near them, I'm not scared of cats therefore I'm not bothered about them coming near me.

It's that simple. You're scared, you react to the fear. You're not scared, you do feck all.
You do feck all. What's that?

You say me merely guns means I'm scared and you not having them means you aren't. I disagree.

Are you scared of burglars?

[GepperRankins]

You do feck all. What's that?

You say me merely guns means I'm scared and you not having them means you aren't. I disagree.

Are you scared of burglars?
din't he say he wasn't?

[Peerzy]

And this post proves why some non-Americans have issues with America:

Unrelenting, unremitting, willful, indiscriminate, media-gobbling ignorance.

Well done, Peerzy. :dry:

Yes alot of non-Americans do have issues with Americans, but Americans have no one else to blame but themselfs. When a 16 year old kid can walk into a fucking supermarket and buy himself a gun, don't you think your country has big issues. When George Dubya Bush can become president and invade whatever country he likes without major problems, i think your country has big issues. Not to be bring this back to the war or anything but the reason USA invaded was because Iraq had WMD's, true? Which is against NATO's piece keeping treaty. No WMD's found, yet America has proved that IT has WMD's.

To be honest there are a number of things about American culture that annoy me, alot less than i would expect. To be honest America isn't that bad of a place to live, sure they have a few fucked up laws and need sorting out, but there is worse places. Holidaying in Florida a few years back was great fun, and only 3 people shot at me :ph34r:

[manker]

You do feck all. What's that?

You say me merely guns means I'm scared and you not having them means you aren't. I disagree.

Are you scared of burglars?Not being funny but you were wasted last night. Your sentences don't make sense and you're repeating questions that I've directly answered.

Skydivers have a reserve parachute because they're scared their primary one will fail, I back up my client folder on 2 separate CD-RWs each day because I'm scared my HD will corrupt, arc welders wear a mask because they're scared of getting a bit of hot metal in their eye ... you've got 6 guns because you're scared of intruders.

People deal with fear by making preparations. You believe that a gun will make you safer - I've argued that I don't think it does, my opinion is unchanged but you've refuted that. However, that doesn't mean that you're not scared of intruders, quite the contrary.

I seriously don't get what the problem is in admitting it. You're scared that you and your family might get hurt so you've done what you truly think is right to protect them and yourself. Taken at face value, it's commendable.

[sparsely]

Six guns ffs? Who are you expecting to burgle your house? Saruman and his orc army?

for the record, 'burgle' is one of the coolest verbs ever.

[Busyman]

Not being funny but you were wasted last night. Your sentences don't make sense and you're repeating questions that I've directly answered.

Skydivers have a reserve parachute because they're scared their primary one will fail, I back up my client folder on 2 separate CD-RWs each day because I'm scared my HD will corrupt, arc welders wear a mask because they're scared of getting a bit of hot metal in their eye ... you've got 6 guns because you're scared of intruders.

People deal with fear by making preparations. You believe that a gun will make you safer - I've argued that I don't think it does, my opinion is unchanged but you've refuted that. However, that doesn't mean that you're not scared of intruders, quite the contrary.

I seriously don't get what the problem is in admitting it. You're scared that you and your family might get hurt so you've done what you truly think is right to protect them and yourself. Taken at face value, it's commendable.
Ok you've said you aren't scared of burglars numerous times.

Why aren't you scared?

[GepperRankins]

because he isn't a chicken shit.

we don't have the same climate of fear that has you lot killing each other :dry:

[DanB]

Prolly something to do with the fact that not 99.9% of our population own guns?

[Busyman]

because he isn't a chicken shit.

we don't have the same climate of fear that has you lot killing each other :dry:
At this point, onwankersballs, maybe he can answer.

[Busyman]

Prolly something to do with the fact that not 99.9% of our population own guns?
You watch too much TV.

[GepperRankins]

viscious cycle really. by busy protecting himself he feeds gun culture meaning everyone has to have a gun making the state of the nation worse

3 cliche terms in two posts :01:

[DanB]

And this post proves why some non-Americans have issues with America:



I think a lot of non Americans have issue with America over there holier than thou stances while being hypocritical fucks ... but I may be mistaken ;)

[Busyman]

viscious cycle really. by busy protecting himself he feeds gun culture meaning everyone has to have a gun making the state of the nation worse

3 cliche terms in two posts :01:
Tbh, I've never "protected" myself with guns since living here.

[DanB]

You watch too much TV.

well ffs you own 6 and you're the only American who's posts in this section I have read :blink:

[Busyman]

well ffs you own 6 and you're the only American who's posts in this section I have read :blink:
Still doesn't make 99.9%. :blink:

[DanB]

You're right, it makes 100% so far :lol:

[GepperRankins]

At this point, onwankersballs, maybe he can answer.

you know he'd say the same. you think you can catch him out or something?

the reason is the climate of fear* you have which makes you think everyones out to kill you. over here we tend to take a step back and look at the situation, we realise we don't all need guns to protect ourselves.

*love that term

[Busyman]

you know he'd say the same. you think you can catch him out or something?

the reason is the climate of fear* you have which makes you think everyones out to kill you. over here we tend to take a step back and look at the situation, we realise we don't all need guns to protect ourselves.

*love that term
If I thought everyone was out to kill me I would have concealed weapon permit, ya think?

[sparsely]

well ffs you own 6 and you're the only American who's posts in this section I have read :blink:

/me is american

[RPerry]

That you actually believe this about sums it up, I think.

Like Busyman said.... too much TV :lol:

[zedaxax]

Is this correct? :ermm:

Good Things About Guns
1.Fun to Shoot (ive only tried bb gun)
2.Holding one is ego building (power (conceptually)
3.If you live of'f the fat o' the land - it is easier way of getting food
4.Having one makes you feel safe (see point 2)
5.Gun factories give people jobs
6. If Threatened it can give you Protection

Bad Things About Guns
1. Fun to Shoot
2.Holding one is ego building (power (conceptually)
3.If Threatened it can give you Protection
4.Noisy when in use (bad for eardrums)
5.They damage things

[sparsely]

That you actually believe this about sums it up, I think.

a non-citizen who is uninformed about american gun laws doesn't validate your point. :rolleyes:

[DanB]

that's true :stir:

[manker]

Ok you've said you aren't scared of burglars numerous times.

Why aren't you scared?I've said it numerous times 'cause you asked me numerous times. Last night a bit of a blur, eh :D

You'd not asked me why.

I'm not scared of burglars because I don't consider household intruders a threat to me; I've never been burgled, no-one in my family has nor any of my friends.

It's pretty quiet around here, much like where you live. Except no guns.

You might say 'What if ... ' but to that I'd tell you that I'm not scared of the society in which I live.

You've helped me illustrate my original point. (http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showpost.php?p=1028637&postcount=15)

[sparsely]

it's not far from the truth though. It wasn't long ago that almost anyone could walk in off the streets and buy ammunition and rifles/shotguns from any Wal-Mart in the country.
our system of background checks and all that isn't very old at all.

In fact, it wasn't until Sam Walton died that that his family gave in to the pressure of protests & political correctness.

[tesco]

nope. not suire why you would need/want one. :blink:

[Busyman]

I've said it numerous times 'cause you asked me numerous times. Last night a bit of a blur, eh :D

You'd not asked me why.

I'm not scared of burglars because I don't consider household intruders a threat to me; I've never been burgled, no-one in my family has nor any of my friends.

It's pretty quiet around here, much like where you live. Except no guns.

You might say 'What if ... ' but to that I'd tell you that I'm not scared of the society in which I live.

You've helped me illustrate my original point. (http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showpost.php?p=1028637&postcount=15)
Precautions do not equal frightened.

None of friends, family or myself have been burgled.

I'm a realist when you are not and neither one of us is frightened.

Me having six guns, baseball bat or the mere thought of getting a knife if doesn't equal scared.

I am secure with the precaution I have in place.

I even have a code word for instances that I may call my loved ones and they or myself can let each other know if someone who means ill will might be standing with them.

Am I now actually frightened that this will happen? Nope.

What if it does? Then I have some form of back-up when others do not.

Otherwise...all of this is out of sight out of mind....... ;)

[manker]

Busy, you took the precautions because of the fear you felt about the society in which you live, k?

[Busyman]

Busy, you took the precautions because of the fear you felt about the society in which you live, k?
I took precautions cause I heard a story on the news. :huh:

[sparsely]

I took precautions cause I heard a story on the news. :huh:

lmao, I bet you still have water and gasoline left over from Y2K, too. :lol:

[manker]

I took precautions cause I heard a story on the news. :huh:How did you feel when you heard that story.

[RPerry]

lmao, I bet you still have water and gasoline left over from Y2K, too. :lol:

I still have batteries left over from the hurricanes :huh:

[vidcc]

I still have batteries left over from the hurricanes :huh:
oh so you're the one that left the fan on

http://www.petco.com/assets/product_images/2/2020620332B.jpg

[Busyman]

How did you feel when you heard that story.
Pretty sad and perplexed actually. I thought it was a shame that that many unarmed people got killed in their home.

[vidcc]

@ busy and manker

much as your debate over "fear" or "scared" is delightful I feel that you may purely be talking about levels.

Busy is not scared as in sitting behind his doors shaking and constantly darting his gaze at any noise or gust of wind and manker isn't saying he is. I would say he would be better described as "concerned". People of course do only get concerned because of a level of fear and worry.

When I was diving in South Africa I turned around to be confronted by a Great White Shark. The shark didn't attack but did "hang out" a while. Now I was definately concerned that I was in a tricky situation and my adrenal glands where working overtime...however I wouldn't say I was scared...in fact I took pictures.


I get what manker is saying and it is 100% correct, it just may be viewed as a word to describe a paniced state rather than concern or worry..... or am I just pissing in the wind?

[vidcc]

I thought it was a shame that that many unarmed people got killed in their home.
Of course many armed people get killed also

[Busyman]

Of course many armed people get killed also
Hell yes but if someone had a pistol maybe the intruders would have had pause when they obviously did not.

[manker]

Pretty sad actually. I thought it was a shame that that many unarmed people got killed in their home.Okay :D

I was about to give up but since I'm clearly onto a winner here - anyone that buys six guns is to protect himself is obviously scared of the evil he is protecting himself from - I'll try a different tack.

Do you think it's bad to admit fear? Do you think that fear is a bad emotion? Do you think it's a sign of weakness? Do you truly believe that you're Borg.

If someone said to me 'Hey, mank. Are you contemplating buying a bigger fence for your garden mainly because you're scared that next door's big dogs may jump over the existing one and eat your son when he's a bit older and able to play outside''

I'd say ... yeah.

'cos I'm devoid of whatever hang up you're displaying.

[Mïcrösöül°V³]

i own 3 guns. a ruger super redhawk 44 mag, an ak 47, and a small derringer looking .22. they are fun to go shooting at the range with.

[Busyman]

@ busy and manker

much as your debate over "fear" or "scared" is delightful I feel that you may purely be talking about levels.

Busy is not scared as in sitting behind his doors shaking and constantly darting his gaze at any noise or gust of wind and manker isn't saying he is. I would say he would be better described as "concerned". People of course do only get concerned because of a level of fear and worry.

When I was diving in South Africa I turned around to be confronted by a Great White Shark. The shark didn't attack but did "hang out" a while. Now I was definately concerned that I was in a tricky situation and my adrenal glands where working overtime...however I wouldn't say I was scared...in fact I took pictures.


I get what manker is saying and it is 100% correct, it just may be viewed as a word to describe a paniced state rather than concern or worry..... or am I just pissing in the wind?
Well one thing was missed through this all....

If I'm in a tank and ain't in the least worried about someone throwing rocks.....

It's easy to have an alarm go off in your head initially but once precautions have been taken, why should I be concerned?

Another thing is wanker may not be concerned about an intruder breaking in but if one did, he's full of shit if he saying he just pisses the wind away and goes "hoe hum" while someone takes his shit.

No one wants their stuff taken.

[manker]

@ busy and manker

much as your debate over "fear" or "scared" is delightful I feel that you may purely be talking about levels.

Busy is not scared as in sitting behind his doors shaking and constantly darting his gaze at any noise or gust of wind and manker isn't saying he is. I would say he would be better described as "concerned". People of course do only get concerned because of a level of fear and worry.

When I was diving in South Africa I turned around to be confronted by a Great White Shark. The shark didn't attack but did "hang out" a while. Now I was definately concerned that I was in a tricky situation and my adrenal glands where working overtime...however I wouldn't say I was scared...in fact I took pictures.


I get what manker is saying and it is 100% correct, it just may be viewed as a word to describe a paniced state rather than concern or worry..... or am I just pissing in the wind?Yeah, you're about right. I'm sure of what I'm saying and choosing the words fear and scared deliberately because of they fit nicely to my points.

As do concerned and wary.

However, I'm absolutely intruiged as to why Busy wont say 'Yeah, I'm a bit scared of that' - when he lives in a fortress and has purchased six guns to defend himself from 'that'.

[Busyman]

Yeah, you're about right. I'm sure of what I'm saying and choosing the words fear and scared deliberately because of they fit nicely to my points.

As do concerned and wary.

However, I'm absolutely intruiged as to why Busy wont say 'Yeah, I'm a bit scared of that' - when he lives in a fortress and has purchased six guns to defend himself from 'that'.
Did it ever cross your mind that I ain't scared because I have this said fortress......

I was waiting for that from you all along but teh focus was off. :lol: :lol:

If I have a privacy fence I ain't in the least bit concerned, scared, whateverthefuck about dogs jumping in the backyard and eating my little girl.

Jeez....and it took umpteen pages all 'cos you want me to say I'm scared.

[MCHeshPants420]

It's easy to have an alarm go off in your head initially but once precautions have been taken, why should I be concerned?


You keep going to the gun range to make sure you can use the six guns you own.

[vidcc]

Well one thing was missed through this all....

If I'm in a tank and ain't in the least worried about someone throwing rocks.....

It's easy to have an alarm go off in your head initially but once precautions have been taken, why should I be concerned?



i didn't miss that, but i feel now that you may have missed mankers point.

being...

you set up all these things because you had a fear of something.... he didn't say you have the same fear now after you have taken "preventative measures"

[manker]

Did it ever cross your mind that I ain't scared because I have this said fortress......

I was waiting for that from you all along but teh focus was off. :lol: :lol:
You're such a dickhead sometimes.

I'm saying the reason why you purchased the guns is because you're scared. The reason you live in a fortress is because you're scared. You're scared of what would happen if you didn't have them.

Surely this hasn't escaped you. Please tell me it hasn't.


Busy, you took the precautions because of the fear you felt about the society in which you live, k?

You've done all of this because you're scared of intruders.

[manker]

i didn't miss that, but i feel now that you may have missed mankers point. No fucking shit, eh.

I seriously don't believe this :no:

[Busyman]

You keep going to the gun range to make sure you can use the six guns you own.
I don't go to range to better fill an intruder full-o-holes (it is a byproduct though).

Me and me mites are pretty competitive at teh accuracy.

One of my friends just collects guns. Not I said the rabbit.

I'm pretty practical.

[MCHeshPants420]

If I hit the bottom post one more time on this thread I'm going to shoot someone.:glare:

[Busyman]

i didn't miss that, but i feel now that you may have missed mankers point.

being...

you set up all these things because you had a fear of something.... he didn't say you have the same fear now after you have taken "preventative measures"
Ok now you are so Busy saying he's right that he isn't.

He said I am scared. That means now.

He has always maintained that.

[Busyman]

You're such a dickhead sometimes.

I'm saying the reason why you purchased the guns is because you're scared. The reason you live in a fortress is because you're scared. You're scared of what would happen if you didn't have them.

Surely this hasn't escaped you. Please tell me it hasn't.



You've done all of this because you're scared of intruders.
No...
I'm not scared of intruders. I will fill him full-o-holes if fucks with me family. :lol: :lol:

[MCHeshPants420]

I don't go to range to better fill an intruder full-o-holes (it is a byproduct though).

Me and me mites are pretty competitive at teh accuracy.

One of friends just collects guns. Not I said the rabbit.

I'm pretty practical.

Whatever the type of practice you take isn't really the issue. It's still practice for a purpose.

Your worse than usual grammar is worrying me though. Long night?

[Busyman]

Whatever the type of practice you take isn't really the issue. It's still practice for a purpose.

Your worse than usual grammar is worrying me though. Long night?
What purpose? You actually think I constantly spend money on ammo to practice shooting people? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[manker]

You're clearly the only person here who missed my point.

However, you're right and everyone else is wrong. How could the outcome have been any different.

:frusty:

[Busyman]

You're clearly the only person here who missed my point.

However, you're right and everyone else is wrong. How could the outcome have been any different.

:frusty:
Well see that's the thing...I never did miss it.
You all are giving me a rare real lol moment on the internet. :lol: :lol:

[sparsely]

Hell yes but if someone had a pistol maybe the intruders would have had pause when they obviously did not.

and maybe they would've done a dancing baby imitation while playing a harmonica with their ass if someone baked a shortcake for them. :rolleyes:

[MCHeshPants420]

What purpose?

I can't answer that. Why do you practice shooting guns with your friends?

Fun?
To make you better at it?
What?

[manker]

Well see that's the thing...I never did miss it.
You all are giving me a rare real lol moment on the internet. :lol: :lol:Sure ;)

[zedaxax]

My studio got broken into 4 times last year - during the neighbourhood junky invasion

Break in No.1 : A friend stayed over for a couple of weeks, he came to studio drunk, left door open, passed out, next morning he woke - tutti gone. Yeah i was pissed off. Went to cops - no point nothing located.

Break in No.2 : Slept in studio heard noise, looked down, saw junky with stuff, ran down naked, junky saw me, runs to door (he came in thru window) can't open door, i grab the bag, i open door and tell him to piss off. Yes Busyman i agree, after this type of wake up call you get very sensitive to any noise - it makes you nervous.

Break in No.3 : Slept in studio, heard noise, dressed (this time) , ran downstairs, he is caught in the kitchen window, i help him out and ask him if he knows about my stuff which got ripped, he says no, i ask him could you get me this & that, he says maybe. He pisses off.

A week later he comes back - with 2 of my items, plus other stuff i needed, i pay him ridiculous low price for tutti. Never saw him again. I regarded the "weak" payoff for these items as "sustainable payback".

Break in No.4 : During party in studio, somebody walked in, grabbed some stuff and left - somebody saw, ran after the guy, the thief dropped everything.

The junkies have since then left the neighborhood, I'm more cautious about having windows open if passing out (place glass bottles on them to trigger noise)
There where No Guns Involved -nor was there any need for them, Id hate to imagine what would happen if i had one, its too easy.
Even junkies are "civilized"

[MCHeshPants420]

See God got it the wrong way round.

He should have legalized guns in Holland and cannibas in USA.



That way Yogi would have shot himself in the head. :01:

[manker]

One of friends just collects guns. Not I said the rabbit.I've just noticed this.

:blink: :lol:

[Busyman]

and maybe they would've done a dancing baby imitation while playing a harmonica with their ass if someone baked a shortcake for them. :rolleyes:
Well then the intruders would have definitely shot them. :unsure:

[Busyman]

I can't answer that. Why do you practice shooting guns with your friends?

Fun?
To make you better at it?
What?
The same reason I play basketball.

[sparsely]

The same reason I play basketball.

to try to imitate black guys that you would otherwise fear?

[Busyman]

My studio got broken into 4 times last year - during the neighbourhood junky invasion

Break in No.1 : A friend stayed over for a couple of weeks, he came to studio drunk, left door open, passed out, next morning he woke - tutti gone. Yeah i was pissed off. Went to cops - no point nothing located.

Break in No.2 : Slept in studio heard noise, looked down, saw junky with stuff, ran down naked, junky saw me, runs to door (he came in thru window) can't open door, i grab the bag, i open door and tell him to piss off. Yes Busyman i agree, after this type of wake up call you get very sensitive to any noise - it makes you nervous.

Break in No.3 : Slept in studio, heard noise, dressed (this time) , ran downstairs, he is caught in the kitchen window, i help him out and ask him if he knows about my stuff which got ripped, he says no, i ask him could you get me this & that, he says maybe. He pisses off.

A week later he comes back - with 2 of my items, plus other stuff i needed, i pay him ridiculous low price for tutti. Never saw him again. I regarded the "weak" payoff for these items as "sustainable payback".

Break in No.4 : During party in studio, somebody walked in, grabbed some stuff and left - somebody saw, ran after the guy, the thief dropped everything.

The junkies have since then left the neighborhood, I'm more cautious about having windows open if passing out (place glass bottles on them to trigger noise)
There where No Guns Involved -nor was there any need for them, Id hate to imagine what would happen if i had one, its too easy.
Even junkies are "civilized"
Yeah in my old area we some high schoolers taking people's bikes out of their backyard. I would hate that one of them got shot. :(

Smart thing with getting some of your shit back. I might have beat the shit out of him and received nothing or better yet had him bring the shit back to sell to me and then beat the shit out of him.

Kinda hard to reward a thief but at the same time, he did come back. :unsure:

[MCHeshPants420]

The same reason I play basketball.

Which is? :huh:

[sparsely]

The same reason I play basketball.to try to imitate black guys that you would otherwise fear?

it got buried ;)

@J3P0 : umm...nope :D

[Busyman]

See God got it the wrong way round.

He should have legalized guns in Holland and cannibas in USA.



That way Yogi would have shot himself in the head. :01:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Busyman]

Which is? :huh:
recreation

[Busyman]

to try to imitate black guys that you would otherwise fear?
:blink:

[MCHeshPants420]

Have you the slightest idea what my point was, Sparsely?

I wonder.

Can you repeat it. I missed your point as well.

[MCHeshPants420]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah well, given two bullets and a licence to kill...I'd shoot him twice. ;) :lol:

[manker]

My studio got broken into 4 times last year - during the neighbourhood junky invasion

Break in No.1 : A friend stayed over for a couple of weeks, he came to studio drunk, left door open, passed out, next morning he woke - tutti gone. Yeah i was pissed off. Went to cops - no point nothing located.

Break in No.2 : Slept in studio heard noise, looked down, saw junky with stuff, ran down naked, junky saw me, runs to door (he came in thru window) can't open door, i grab the bag, i open door and tell him to piss off. Yes Busyman i agree, after this type of wake up call you get very sensitive to any noise - it makes you nervous.

Break in No.3 : Slept in studio, heard noise, dressed (this time) , ran downstairs, he is caught in the kitchen window, i help him out and ask him if he knows about my stuff which got ripped, he says no, i ask him could you get me this & that, he says maybe. He pisses off.

A week later he comes back - with 2 of my items, plus other stuff i needed, i pay him ridiculous low price for tutti. Never saw him again. I regarded the "weak" payoff for these items as "sustainable payback".

Break in No.4 : During party in studio, somebody walked in, grabbed some stuff and left - somebody saw, ran after the guy, the thief dropped everything.

The junkies have since then left the neighborhood, I'm more cautious about having windows open if passing out (place glass bottles on them to trigger noise)
There where No Guns Involved -nor was there any need for them, Id hate to imagine what would happen if i had one, its too easy.
Even junkies are "civilized"Must have been scary, I have to admit that I admire you for your restraint and tolerance.

SnnY theorised about this in his posts yesterday (or whenever) - you've shown that he's right in a culture in which guns aren't prevalent. At least in these instances.

This is infinitely more preferable to recreating a scene from Die Hard in your living room.

[sparsely]

oh, quit stammering and spit it the hell out.

[Busyman]

Must have been scary, I have to admit that I admire you for your restraint and tolerance.

SnnY theorised about this in his posts yesterday (or whenever) - you've shown that he's right in a culture in which guns aren't prevalent. At least in these instances.

This is infinitely more preferable to recreating a scene from Die Hard in your living room.
It sounds to me that no weapons were invloved at all. That's pretty nice. :rolleyes:

[manker]

It sounds to me that no weapons were invloved at all. That's pretty nice. :rolleyes:Indeed.

At least you managed to get your head around Zed's point :dry:

[MCHeshPants420]

You mean you want me to read and parse it for you, having failed to do so yourself?

No, I mean you're normally on my ignore list and I took you off just for tonight just in case you had something interesting to say. Be a dear and repost your point.

[manker]

My point is that if the several of you who have chosen to argue any of the variety of anti-firearm stances you've tried to present had gathered your formative "data" from television or other native media, your understanding of our commensurate views is thereby skewed.

In light of this, you would do better to ask us how these things work in our country, and erase from your minds and memories that which you currently "think" you know.

After all, we have no obligation to entertain the views of members who dismiss our experiences or sourcing, or label same biased to some minority ideology, when you can't even muster the alacrity to question Auntie Beeb. ;) ;)Actually, I think my points are mainly in congruence with vid, Sparsely and SnnY. I'm not sure of their accord with Auntie Beeb, what with them not being from the UK, but I am sure that I agree with them and that their opinions are as valid as your own.

Of course, you may not have been lumping me in with that but the language used seems to intimate at it.

Maybe in a thread such as this the choice of literary weapon should have been the sniper rifle rather than the scatter gun :dry:

[sparsely]

well, debate on the internet is pretty useless anyway, none of us are going to change one another's mind's about it...so it basically just like, let's see who makes themselves look stupid, and ridicule whoever we can :D

as far as I'm concerned, as an american, no ordinary citizen can rationally justify the need for a firearm. I'd be content if only the police/military and criminals had them. They pretty much just use them to shoot each other anyway, and I'm neither...so I'm pretty safe.
I'd rather be protected from the regular, everyday dumbasses who need weaponry to feel safe.

edit : I don't even know who the fuck aunt beeb is. :cool2:

[Busyman]

Indeed.

At least you managed to get your head around Zed's point :dry:
I get what you all are getting at all along (including last night).

I still wouldn't be gunless, even over there (law permitting).

It just takes one hardcore junkie to possibly shank me, shoot me, whatever and I'll be holding on to ideal of DisneyWorld.

There are consequences to breaking laws and some of those consequences are dished out by ordinary citizens.

However, everything doesn't warrant a shot in the ass and everything over here doesn't really go that way.

edited thanks to manker ;)

[sparsely]

I still wouldn't be gunless, even over there (law permitting).

It just takes one hardcore junkie to possibly shank me, shoot me, whatever and I'll holding on to ideal of DisneyWorld.

yes, you are paranoid.

[/thread]

[Busyman]

as far as I'm concerned, as an american, no ordinary citizen can rationally justify the need for a firearm. I'd be content if only the police/military and criminals had them. They pretty much just use them to shoot each other anyway, and I'm neither...so I'm pretty safe.
I'd rather be protected from the regular, everyday dumbasses who need weaponry to feel safe.
That's the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

Criminals don't just fight each other.

Sometimes, you know, every once and awhile they come for you.

They come for me and I've got something for them. They come for you and I'll call you the regular, everyday dumbass.

[Busyman]

yes, you are paranoid.

[/thread]
Whatever it is it has kept me alive longer than I probably should be living.

[sparsely]

yep, I'm just mad.
I don't lock my car or house either. I also pick up hitchhikers, talk to strangers, and eat candy from people I don't know.

I guess I just like living on the edge. :rolleyes:

[MCHeshPants420]

when you can't even muster the alacrity to question Auntie Beeb.

Who are we to question the inherent wisdom in an episode of Eastenders? :unsure:

[MCHeshPants420]

And for those people ignorant of the ignore function (forgive my pun) I can only but recommend it:

http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=91467

You'll never know what you're missing out on...

[vidcc]

You're all a bunch of communists. :P
Коммунист кто-то не имеет ничего и хочет делить его с вами :naughty:

BTW-I'd be careful throwing in with Sparsely; he just said he's not concerned with gun-toting criminals, but is absolutely overcome by fear of the lawfully armed.
Lawfully armed unfortunately doesn't always translate into sensibly armed or safely armed which is why I am for tougher standards.http://www.spacespider.net/emo/violent053.gif

[manker]

You're all a bunch of communists. :P

BTW-I'd be careful throwing in with Sparsely; he just said he's not concerned with gun-toting criminals, but is absolutely overcome by fear of the lawfully armed.Yeah, yeah. We communists rawk :01:

I think Sparsely alluded to having a society like in the UK, didn't he. We have it so that the only people with (hand)guns are the police, military and (some)criminals. Seems to work okay.

You know, Sparsely might have something -- it might bring your intruder rate down ;)

Altho' in the main I would rather be confronted by a lawfully armed citizen than an illegally armed criminal, I'd hate to be faced with Zep, the NRA enthusiast who calls his AK-47 'Lady' and sucks his cans of Colt45 dry before shooting them off the fence post.

In the UK, Zep wouldn't be armed.

[Busyman]

And for those people ignorant of the ignore function (forgive my pun) I can only but recommend it:

http://www.filesharingtalk.com/vb3/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=91467

You'll never know what you're missing out on...
That function is a waste of HD space on teh server.

It reminds me of someone with their fingers in their ears.

[Busyman]

Коммунист кто-то не имеет ничего и хочет делить его с вами :naughty:

Lawfully armed unfortunately doesn't always translate into sensibly armed or safely armed which is why I am for tougher standards.http://www.spacespider.net/emo/violent053.gif
I want tougher standards as well but you are playing ignorant to his point.

[MCHeshPants420]

That function is a waste of HD space on teh server.

It reminds me of someone with their fingers in their ears.

I prefer to think of it as me putting my hand over their mouth. Though with Yogi I like to think of it as me putting my hand in his mouth. If you ken what I mean.

[Busyman]

Yeah, yeah. We communists rawk :01:

I think Sparsely alluded to having a society like in the UK, didn't he. We have it so that the only people with (hand)guns are the police, military and (some)criminals. Seems to work okay.

You know, Sparsely might have something -- it might bring your intruder rate down ;)
How can guns being illegal reduce the intruder rate? :blink:

[Peerzy]

You watch too much TV. :dry:


I took precautions cause I heard a story on the news. :huh:


:rolleyes:

Self pwnage?

[vidcc]

I want tougher standards as well but you are playing ignorant to his point.
how?

[Busyman]

I prefer to think of it as me putting my hand over their mouth. Though with Yogi I like to think of it as me putting my hand in his mouth. If you ken what I mean.
Good point. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[manker]

How can guns being illegal reduce the intruder rate? :blink:The UK has a lower intruder rate than the US.

Whoda thunk it :1eye:

[Busyman]

:rolleyes:

Self pwnage?
No dipshit. I actually live where the news is.

[Busyman]

The UK has a lower intruder rate than the US.

Whoda thunk it :1eye:
Correlation is not cause and effect.

We have a higher crime rate too.

[Busyman]

how?
The point was

rather than

[manker]

Correlation is not cause and effect.

We have a higher crime rate too.You think it's coincidence.

[Busyman]

You think it's coincidence.
Besides gun ownership (which is actually not that big of an issue here) the dynamic of our society is totally different than yours.

If many of our freedoms were taken away then our crime rate might lower. Who knows?

Not an apples to apples comparison.

[manker]

Besides gun ownership (which is actually not that big of an issue here) the dynamic of our society is totally different than yours.

If many of our freedoms were taken away then our crime rate might lower. Who knows?

Not an apples to apples comparison.What freedoms do you have that I don't.

I am intrigued.

[manker]

Ooh, many freedoms, missed that.

[Peerzy]

How can guns being illegal reduce the intruder rate? :blink:


Less kids buy guns, meaning more kids are scared to jack your house, meaning less of your shit stolen, meaning you americans will have to go out hunting for your daily prey.

Less intruders, more random shootings, it doesn't make sense, but hey, thats the American way.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002Q2JNS.01-A1U54AB4PLXY1K._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Busyman]

What freedoms do you have that I don't.

I am intrigued.
I can't be sure specifically, beats me.

We have differences in law, capitalism, multiple cultures, etc. I hear of people wanting to come hear more than England to make their own way.

The point is our countries are not merely separated by gun ownership and water. Maybe folks have to much fun here. I really couldn't tell ya. I just know it ain't merely gun ownership.

Besides criminal's shooting the local 7-Eleven clerk during a robbery, or the innocent bystander, guns are not on our minds....unless I'm listening to some rap or watching Menace To Society. :unsure:

[vidcc]

The point was

rather than

I know what j2s point was (albeit lighthearted) but that had nothing to do with what i pointed out.

A lawfully armed "idiot" is JUST as dangerous as an armed criminal.

Arm an idiot...add "the boys", a pickup and a couple of cases of beer....

[Busyman]

Less kids buy guns, meaning more kids are scared to jack your house, meaning less of your shit stolen, meaning you americans will have to go out hunting for your daily prey.

Less intruders, more random shootings, it doesn't make sense, but hey, thats the American way.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002Q2JNS.01-A1U54AB4PLXY1K._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Kids can't buy guns legally.

I had a gun when I was 16 and it wasn't from the store.
I now have registered weapons. If I couldn't buy registered weapons then I could always get a burner.

Criminals are known for getting burners. These are filtered in just like drugs albeit some are stolen from registered users with the serials scratched off.

I've had guns from nowhere. They had serial numbers but came from no store or registered user.

[Busyman]

I know what j2s point was (albeit lighthearted) but that had nothing to do with what i pointed out.

A lawfully armed "idiot" is JUST as dangerous as an armed criminal.

Arm an idiot...add "the boys", a pickup and a couple of cases of beer....
Damn and wanker called me Capt Obvious. :ermm:

My apologies then.....
However, I'll take the lawfully armed idiot over the armed criminal anyday (I'm sure 7-Eleven clerks feel the same way).

The numbers for the criminal beat the lawful idiot.

[manker]

I can't be sure specifically, beats me.

We have differences in law, capitalism, multiple cultures, etc. I hear of people wanting to come hear more than England to make their own way.

The point is our countries are not merely separated by gun ownership and water. Maybe folks have to much fun here. I really couldn't tell ya. I just know it ain't merely gun ownership.

Besides criminal's shooting the local 7-Eleven clerk during a robbery, or the innocent bystander, guns are not on our minds....unless I'm listening to some rap or watching Menace To Society. :unsure:Yeah, tricky, eh.

I don't think Americans have more fun than their UK counterparts. Not quite sure where that notion comes from.

I agree there is more to the difference in our societies than gun law but it's esoteric and hard to pin down. The right to bear arms is the obvious difference and it will account for much of the crime rate difference.

What better accompaniment to facilitate a crime, than a gun.

J2 seems to think that America has proportionately more idiots ergo more crime, but I don't think that's true and probably a bit harsh on the ol' US of A. It's down chiefly to guns being widely available.

I reckon.

[Peerzy]

Kids can't buy guns legally.



Some kid sure could when he walked into wallmart brough a handgun and some ammo, went to school and shot his friends and teachers, ain't see anything like that in a long time in the UK :rolleyes:


BTW all the confuzzling language people are using is confusing :crying:

[sparsely]

psst, Peezry...they think it adds more weight to their argument :snooty:

[Busyman]

Some kid sure could when he walked into wallmart brough a handgun and some ammo, went to school and shot his friends and teachers, ain't see anything like that in a long time in the UK :rolleyes:


BTW all the confuzzling language people are using is confusing :crying:
I never heard of a kid buying a gun at a WalMart. Ammo maybe but not a gun.

[Busyman]

I was just watching some of Bowling For Colombine (yesterday) and on the interview with Charlton Heston, Michael Moore asked him why he doesn't lock his guns up and remove the ammo.

Weirdly enough I do just that.

Change the laws regarding gun ownership without getting rid of gun ownership and everyone's happy

[GepperRankins]

source (http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp)

[Busyman]

source (http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp)
Excellent article!!!

[GepperRankins]

did you read the bit about robbery with guns dropping from 24.1% to 17.6% immediatly after the gun amnesty or whatever they call it?

[RPerry]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Crime

I wish I had an updated version of this, I must admit I am surprised at how many of the categories the US actually leads in, but also noticed that alot drop off per capita

[Busyman]

did you read the bit about robbery with guns dropping from 24.1% to 17.6% immediatly after the gun amnesty or whatever they call it?
No I missed that stat. What paragraph?

[GepperRankins]

near the bottom. it starts "other claims offered here"

did you realise the point of the article is to prove the open letter "hi yanks" is biased and plain wrong

[Busyman]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Crime

I wish I had an updated version of this, I must admit I am surprised at how many of the categories the US actually leads in, but also noticed that alot drop off per capita
That's a tight website.

I wasn't surprised at all.

[manker]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Crime

I wish I had an updated version of this, I must admit I am surprised at how many of the categories the US actually leads in, but also noticed that alot drop off per capitaWell, your population is the 4th largest in the world, of course it will drop off. I suppose Luxembourg's would rise :crazy:

Not sure what you're getting at with this.

[manker]

near the bottom. it starts "other claims offered here"

did you realise the point of the article is to prove the open letter "hi yanks" is biased and plain wronghttp://foros.recoletos.es/foros-estarguapa/servlet/JiveServlet/download/11-100489-1901769-51335/captain_obvious.jpg

:unsure:

[Busyman]

near the bottom. it starts "other claims offered here"

did you realise the point of the article is to prove the open letter "hi yanks" is biased and plain wrong
Uh yeah dude. There is a whole article there besides the "boxed in one". Kinda hard to miss. :dry:

The article proves my point almost to a tee.

[Busyman]

http://foros.recoletos.es/foros-estarguapa/servlet/JiveServlet/download/11-100489-1901769-51335/captain_obvious.jpg

:unsure:
Damn wank, me and you posted at the same time. Looks like someone took my title.

[manker]

Damn wank, me and you posted at the same time. Looks like someone took my title.Yeah but I bet Dave won't argue with me about it for 15 pages :P

[GepperRankins]

Uh yeah dude. There is a whole article there besides the "boxed in one". Kinda hard to miss. :dry:

The article proves my point almost to a tee.
you've been saying take guns away from everyone and armed robbery will half? i could swear you were saying the opposite. sorry for my idiocy

[Busyman]

Yeah but I bet Dave won't argue with me about it for 15 pages :P
He probably won't the google the answer and say it was obvious either. :pinch:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[manker]

I actually thought that the 'Great Article' comment meant that Busy had changed his mind.

Now I think of it, I can kinda see the context with the separate your guns and ammo /change the law comment, tho'.

[GepperRankins]

i didn't google. i couldn't sleep so i just started reading random articles on snopes

[GepperRankins]

sleep depravation does crazy things. it looks like manker and busyman are agreeing :blink:



shame it's about me being wrong/paranoid :geptard:

[Busyman]

i didn't google. i couldn't sleep so i just started reading random articles on snopes
Ooooookayyyyyyyyyyy

[GepperRankins]

thats the best i could decipher from "He probably won't the google the answer and say it was obvious either." :nostradamus:

[Busyman]

thats the best i could decipher from "He probably won't the google the answer and say it was obvious either." :nostradamus:
Read teh history (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=90426&page=3&pp=10)

A dead issue now. :ermm:

[manker]

sleep depravation does crazy things. it looks like manker and busyman are agreeing :blink:



shame it's about me being wrong/paranoid :geptard:I do think that the US couldn't decide to adopt our laws. They have too many weapons to dispose of so the logistics and cost would be absolutely horrendous. They also have such long borders that trying to keep them out would be futile - we're a small island and quite lucky in that respect. The best that could happen is that their existing gun laws get tightened up so that idiots can't get them.

Busty posted just that a moment ago so yeah, I agree.


We're better tho :snooty:

[manker]

Oh yeah, there is that constitutional thing too. They feel it's kinda important.

Plus any administration that revoked the right to bear arms wouldn't get voted in again, so it would be a political disaster.

Also the NRA would organise a revolution :(

[GepperRankins]

nm, i might read it later. at the moment i can only handle thing in small portions, like expresso