Helicopter shot down north of Baghdad

[cpt_azad]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/21/iraq.main/index.html

I've seen the videos, and I must say, they're sick. I know this is old but still, the way that the "gunmen" kill the survivor (Bulgarian pilot that miraculously survived the crash and crawled away from it with a broken leg) is just sickening. If you want to watch it I can only think of muchosucko.com right now, don't know if it's posted anywhere else. Here are the links (they're broken into 2 parts):

1st part: http://www.muchosucko.com/video-civilianhelicopterdownediniraq21stapril.html

2nd part (shooting the pilot): http://www.muchosucko.com/video-helicopterdownediniraqpart2.html

They actually help the pilot up before they shoot him, you can clearly see that the pilot is in shock and he puts up his hand towards the gun trying to plea not to shoot him. Just sick.


edit: The videos are pretty sick, charred bodies and such, but when the shoot the pilot you can't see any blood or mutilation just a body, plus the vid. quality isn't that great either, blurry at times.

[GepperRankins]

that's ghey. i want to see a helicopter get pwn3d not dead bodies :dry:

[Skiz]

Fuck those guys! :mad3:

They'll get theirs in due time!!

[Samurai]

Man... I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but here goes...

The US, UK and all other countries who live by the Geneva Convention during wartime and adhere to the rules of engagement are (supposedly) to have a high standard of knowledge when it comes to combat...

When I see video clips such as these, showing an execution, it makes me think nothing is going to get better before it gets a hell of a lot worse.

So when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... I don't really give a shit.

You see, it happens on both sides, and no matter how many times we all say "We hold ourselves to the highest degree of professionalism" this will always continue. On both sides.


One thing I'm sure we can all agree on though is that it's sad. Sad that both sides are so easily willing to do this sort of thing. Sad that whoever is chosen to be executed (and I'm talking both sides here), they'll never see their loved ones ever again. Sad :cry:

[GepperRankins]

both sides should be above it, and it's our responsibility to make sure our forces behave.

it may sound strange but i don't mind when our soldiers die, but when civilians are dragged into it then it's sad.

[Busyman]

Man... I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but here goes...

The US, UK and all other countries who live by the Geneva Convention during wartime and adhere to the rules of engagement are (supposedly) to have a high standard of knowledge when it comes to combat...

When I see video clips such as these, showing an execution, it makes me think nothing is going to get better before it gets a hell of a lot worse.

So when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... I don't really give a shit.

You see, it happens on both sides, and no matter how many times we all say "We hold ourselves to the highest degree of professionalism" this will always continue. On both sides.


One thing I'm sure we can all agree on though is that it's sad. Sad that both sides are so easily willing to do this sort of thing. Sad that whoever is chosen to be executed (and I'm talking both sides here), they'll never see their loved ones ever again. Sad :cry:
That's the bad thing. We are supposed to abide by the Geneva while they don't.

When I see shit like this I say we crush them AND FORGET PRISONER TAKING. :angry:

[Formula1]

Damn, thanks for posting that video cpt_azad. Its images like these that really does make me view the war as a harsh war. Unlike U.S. television which (imho) makes the war look like it isnt a "big deal". Anyway great video , i hope those iraqi militants get what they deserve in the near future.

[GepperRankins]

That's the bad thing. We are supposed to abide by the Geneva while they don't.

yes

[Busyman]

Damn, thanks for posting that video cpt_azad. Its images like these that really does make me view the war as a harsh war. Unlike U.S. television which (imho) makes the war look like it isnt a "big deal". Anyway great video , i hope those iraqi militants get what they deserve in the near future.
US TV doesn't want to give them the propaganda they are seeking.

It's why they filmed it ffs. :blink:

[Skiz]

So when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... ISo when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... I don't really give a shit.

All we did was humiliate our prisoners a bit. Making them do naked pyramids and stuff. Big deal. They're prisoners at least. If an American is caught, even a civilian, we see footage of his head being sawed off with a machete (spelling?) or stuff like in that video. You can't even think that the two things are equally bad and say, "I don't really give a shit." as if the two things are equal and offset each other.

[Busyman]

[QUOTE]So when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... ISo when allied soldiers are caught on camera/film striking poses next to combatant prisoners etc... I don't really give a shit.QUOTE]

All we did was humiliate our prisoners a bit. Making them do naked pyramids and stuff. Big deal. They're prisoners at least. If an American is caught, even a civilian, we see footage of his head being sawed off with a machete (spelling?) or stuff like in that video. You can't even think that the two things are equally bad and say, "I don't really give a shit." as if the two things are equal and offset each other.
Yup imo they are opposite ends of the spectrum. However they both violate the Geneva Convention.

Not to give Bush any credit but there is some shit in Geneva Convention that is rather outdated and soft.

It almost makes being a POW like a guest at a hotel (besides the fact you can't leave).

[GepperRankins]

All we did was humiliate our prisoners a bit. Making them do naked pyramids and stuff. Big deal. They're prisoners at least. If an American is caught, even a civilian, we see footage of his head being sawed off with a machete (spelling?) or stuff like in that video. You can't even think that the two things are equally bad and say, "I don't really give a shit."


the civilian thing is wrong, no question. i don't understand why they do it, they get no support from anyone. i'd go so far as to say it wasn't saddam loyalists or religious extremists that killed margaret hassan, because it does nothing for their cause.

what can they realistically do about american soldiers though? handing them straight back would be, well... imagine if we let theres go. keeping them prisoner would be impossible in a country where they can't stay still. all they can do is execute them and hope americans decide the war is costing too much human life

[hobbes]

In response to Gepper Rankins, who thinks we should be nice while they chop heads off.

The Geneva Convention is not a code of ethics, but a way to give the families of a loved one captured a sense of comfort.

If you are engaged with a foe who will obey the rules it is your penultimate goal to make sure the POW's you possess are treated properly. In such as case, any confirmation of abuse would be mean that your soldiers would be abused.

When you face an enemy who has no regard for this convention and will torture all of your soldier regardless that you hold theirs in the highest regard, then the gloves are off.

The sky is the limit, do want you want.

[Samurai]

skizo -i did include the word 'etc'...

i didn't want to start upsetting certain people on the forums, as i'm sure some have lost loved ones in this war.

[GepperRankins]

In response to Gepper Rankins, who thinks we should be nice while they chop heads off.

The Geneva Convention is not a code of ethics, but a way to give the families of a loved one captured a sense of comfort.

If you are engaged with a foe who will obey the rules it is your penultimate goal to make sure the POW's you possess are treated properly. In such as case, any confirmation of abuse would be mean that your soldiers would be abused.

When you face an enemy who has no regard for this convention and will torture all of your soldier regardless that you hold theirs in the highest regard, then the gloves are off.

The sky is the limit, do want you want.
like i said they can't stick to the geneva convention. killing US soldiers is the only chance of winning power back. america has the means to stick by the geneva convention, and what does humiliating prisoners achieve?

sorry but i don't follow this eye for an eye thing.

[Money Fist]

i would much rather be humailiated and be alive at the end of the day than be killed

these pricks are animals
hope they die in some kind of agonizing way

[GepperRankins]

maybe not the best choice of avatar :pinch:

[hobbes]

like i said they can't stick to the geneva convention. killing US soldiers is the only chance of winning power back. america has the means to stick by the geneva convention, and what does humiliating prisoners achieve?

sorry but i don't follow this eye for an eye thing.

Torture is not a necessary way to kill. You can shoot them and they will be dead before they know it. Slitting the throat is an intentionally cruel act and filmed for to evoke fear in those who see it. Imagine being threatened for days with this grim fate. It is not done quickly and decisively, but drawn out over days or weeks, to inflict the greatest psychological torture.

Why should we not torture our enemies? Not humilate, but torture. The humilation was done by individuals and was not a tactic to extract important military information.

These people need to know that they will not be getting 3 square meals a day and a nice cell if they are captured, but tortured beyond belief. This would curtail recruitment and make people think twice about being accomplice to these people.

All is fair in love and war.

[3RA1N1AC]

i get the sense that the civilized world has drawn up artificial distinctions between barbaric methods and civilized methods of waging a war. and degrees of superiority, with computer-guided missiles & crushed-by-the-wheels-of-a-tank at the top of the moral scale, and scalped-or-beheaded-and-rolled-into-a-mass-grave at the bottom of the scale. out-of-sight is out-of-mind, almost.

if confronted by a more civilized enemy than ourselves, who find our tactics distasteful and barbaric, would we indulge their outrage and stop using things as inhumane as bullets & knives, only handle war-related items with silk gloves and blindfolds on, or stop using soldiers to settle disagreements between our leaders? okay that's hypothetical, but my point is that these barbarism vs. civilization things are relative rather than absolute, and quite possibly very subjective in nature.

[Skiz]

skizo -i did include the word 'etc'...

i didn't want to start upsetting certain people on the forums, as i'm sure some have lost loved ones in this war.

I'm wasn't trying to sound like an ass. I like you Samurai. We've had a good repore on this board with one another. I wasn't attacking you but I certainly disagree with you on this one.

[100%]

@Rainiac - agreed - but the civilized approach in our society is what the politicians do
and look how we respect them - and..look what they do
loop?

[Busyman]

I don't know about all this barbaric vs. civilized shit.

These motherfuckers videotape the ffs.

[cpt_azad]

I don't know about all this barbaric vs. civilized shit.

These motherfuckers videotape the ffs.

Agreed. I mean, when I first saw that video (the 2nd one) and I saw them (gunmen) actually helping the Bulgarian up and then all of a sudden shout "Allah Akbar" and shoot him a dozen times, well, that is just sickening and Geneva Convention or not, it's just plain wrong. No matter what rules one adheres to, this crossed the line. The Bulgarian pilot was obviously in shock and had no idea what was going on, he had only 1 second warning (you can see him put his hand up and saying something like "No, dont") and bam right in the hand and the face and then a few more times on the fallen body. Shoot down the helicopter and leave it at that, if your message (the militants) is to drive fear into the work contractors and gov't officials then fine shoot the damn helicopter down, dont go and shoot an injured person ffs.

This kind of stuff really makes my blood boil, same with when Americans do it to Iraqi's that have been injured but this, ffs the guy was an unarmed civillian.

[cpt_azad]

Damn, thanks for posting that video cpt_azad. Its images like these that really does make me view the war as a harsh war. Unlike U.S. television which (imho) makes the war look like it isnt a "big deal". Anyway great video , i hope those iraqi militants get what they deserve in the near future.

Ya, that's why I posted it, it's things like this that you do not see on the media. If I come across any more vids (that are not too "gruesome") I'll post em. I dont post them to sicken people or anger them, I post them because 99% of the time they have never seen what is actually going on in Iraq.

[GepperRankins]

in a bizzarre way it is good that you posted this. most anti-saddam/pro-american stuff i say i dismiss as bullshit propaganda, so to see a hippy point this out kind of levels the playing field. it's still no excuse to humiliate iraqis though

[Samurai]

i like this pic :)

RTJ: Dude... what the hell?


Suicide bomber purportedly in Iraq, stopped by sniper's bullet.

[cpt_azad]

ffs shadow, seriously u gotta link those things, can't just directly post em, i'd laugh if u got moderated for this.

[3RA1N1AC]

I don't know about all this barbaric vs. civilized shit.

These motherfuckers videotape the ffs.
yeh well anyway, my previous post shouldn't be counted as an expression of pro-jihad sympathy or anything. i'm in the middle of watching a marathon of wildlife documentaries and (not to say that life is cheap or worthless) it just reminds me of how much time & energy that people put into being offended at things like the particular method of killing an innocent civilian. it's a man bites dog story because it isn't just the run of the mill friendly fire or "glitch in the guidance system" collateral damage that kills other innocent civilians.

[cpt_azad]

good point braniac

[S!X]

wow, Samurai what a pic! That head looks fake tho. :dry:

Its so fecking juicy :ph34r:

[Samurai]

wow, Samurai what a pic! That head looks fake tho. :dry:

Its so fecking juicy :ph34r:

it's real - check out rotten.com :sick:

[S!X]

it's real - check out rotten.com :sick:

:sick: Pretty much every pic on that site is graphic... DONT DO THIS AT HOME CHILDREN!! :lookaroun

[3RA1N1AC]

ah, rotten.com. a top-notch time-waster site, if you're not easily offended. :D

[cpt_azad]

lol, i am (or am i? :ph34r: ). nah, i've been there, it's pretty sick but i'm not easily offended so...

[Skiz]

The photo Samurai posted shows a terrorist spotted INSIDE the Green Zone in Iraq. He
was taken out by an Alabama National Guardsman with a .50 Barrett shiper
rifle at 1050 yards,(over 1/2 mile) one shot. He was observed wearing the suicide bomber
vest and the rest, as they say, is history.


http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.th.jpg (http://img179.echo.cx/my.php?image=z7un.jpg)

[Samurai]

The photo Samurai posted shows a terrorist spotted INSIDE the Green Zone in Iraq. He
was taken out by an Alabama National Guardsman with a .50 Barrett shiper
rifle at 1050 yards,(over 1/2 mile) one shot. He was observed wearing the suicide bomber
vest and the rest, as they say, is history.


http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.th.jpg (http://img179.echo.cx/my.php?image=z7un.jpg)

it's funny - i was chatting to my friend who saw this pic and i suggested it looked like a shot from a .50 cal barratt rifle. they're a powerful gun, and i knew that by the look of the pic it must have been one. should have put money on it eh :rolleyes:

[Busyman]

yeh well anyway, my previous post shouldn't be counted as an expression of pro-jihad sympathy or anything. i'm in the middle of watching a marathon of wildlife documentaries and (not to say that life is cheap or worthless) it just reminds me of how much time & energy that people put into being offended at things like the particular method of killing an innocent civilian. it's a man bites dog story because it isn't just the run of the mill friendly fire or "glitch in the guidance system" collateral damage that kills other innocent civilians.
Sorry bud but there is a difference.

Imagine if we targeted cilvilians and then added to by videotaping it.

Accidents versus On Purpose.

I don't know where you get this time and energy shit either. I'm either offended or not. The good thing is that when these little demon motherfuckers do this shit, all they do is get people more pissed off at them. In some cases, they it works where they actually scare and/or make cowards of the people they fucked up (maybe Spain, Phillipines).

Imagine a US soldier accidently killing another...then imagine that he targeted our own. You could say the end result is the same, a soldiers is dead, but how it came about is a motherfucker.

Sorry your logic doesn't hold up. :dry:

[Busyman]

The photo Samurai posted shows a terrorist spotted INSIDE the Green Zone in Iraq. He
was taken out by an Alabama National Guardsman with a .50 Barrett shiper
rifle at 1050 yards,(over 1/2 mile) one shot. He was observed wearing the suicide bomber
vest and the rest, as they say, is history.


http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.th.jpg (http://img179.echo.cx/my.php?image=z7un.jpg)
:clap:

[Rat Faced]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/21/iraq.main/index.html

I've seen the videos, and I must say, they're sick. I know this is old but still, the way that the "gunmen" kill the survivor (Bulgarian pilot that miraculously survived the crash and crawled away from it with a broken leg) is just sickening. If you want to watch it I can only think of muchosucko.com right now, don't know if it's posted anywhere else. Here are the links (they're broken into 2 parts):

1st part: http://www.muchosucko.com/video-civilianhelicopterdownediniraq21stapril.html

2nd part (shooting the pilot): http://www.muchosucko.com/video-helicopterdownediniraqpart2.html

They actually help the pilot up before they shoot him, you can clearly see that the pilot is in shock and he puts up his hand towards the gun trying to plea not to shoot him. Just sick.


edit: The videos are pretty sick, charred bodies and such, but when the shoot the pilot you can't see any blood or mutilation just a body, plus the vid. quality isn't that great either, blurry at times.

Cant be true..

The war was over a couple of years ago according to some. The people of Iraq are as happy as Larry now with their Democracy and have no complaints.

That must be the case, Blaire and Bush tell us so.

[3RA1N1AC]

I don't know where you get this time and energy shit either.
i dunno where i get this time & energy shit, either. hence the amount of time & energy i'm further devoting to the topic, when i could be spending it on something more relevant like a croissandwich: 0.

[GepperRankins]

i dunno where i get this time & energy shit, either. hence the amount of time & energy i'm further devoting to the topic, when i could be spending it on something more relevant like a croissandwich: 0.
sounds a bit french :dry:

[Busyman]

i dunno where i get this time & energy shit, either. hence the amount of time & energy i'm further devoting to the topic, when i could be spending it on something more relevant like a croissandwich: 0.
So that's why you bothered posting.....again. :blink: :dry: :ermm:

[cpt_azad]

Cant be true..

The war was over a couple of years ago according to some. The people of Iraq are as happy as Larry now with their Democracy and have no complaints.

That must be the case, Blaire and Bush tell us so.

I hope that's sarcasm gushing out of your ears :mellow:

[Samurai]

what do you really think?

[cpt_azad]

you don't wanna know what I think :shifty:

[Rat Faced]

I hope that's sarcasm gushing out of your ears :mellow:

Moi?

Sarcastic?

Perish the thought.. :P

[Money Fist]

it looked like a shot from a .50 cal barratt rifle. they're a powerful gun
the barret is known as an anti material weapon
that thing can be used to stop artillary peices and render soft vehicles (like jeeps) useless in just 1 shot
the brits have recently made there own version of an anti-matirial rifle

http://fapomatic.com/thumbs/8/aias500.jpg (http://fapomatic.com/show.php?loc=8&f=aias500.jpg)
want more?
goto
http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm
look up sniper rifles > large calibre

[ziggyjuarez]

nice video.I wonder why i dont care...

[GepperRankins]

:glag:

[ziggyjuarez]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glag&r=f

[manker]

I've just read thro' this car-crash of a thread and can't quite believe the content.

All is NOT fair in war and just because the enemy violates a multitude of stipulations, doesn't mean that we have to do the same. If they prove themselves to be callous murderous bastards then why follow suit. They gunned down your comrade in cold blood but be the better man and treat his captured comrades with dignity. There is no advantage to be gained by being equally inhuman.

Apart from anything else, it isn't like a tactic we have to use to demoralise the enemy forces. What's left of them, anyway.

I totally agree with Dave's posts; I don't buy into this eye for an eye shit.


Btw, that pic of the suicide bomber and his supposed killer - the soldier is pictured in Kosovo (does the scenery even look like Iraq :blink:) - he'd have to be a damn good shot to get him from there.

http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.jpg

[manker]

The photo Samurai posted shows a terrorist spotted INSIDE the Green Zone in Iraq. He
was taken out by an Alabama National Guardsman with a .50 Barrett shiper
rifle at 1050 yards,(over 1/2 mile) one shot. He was observed wearing the suicide bomber
vest and the rest, as they say, is history.


http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.th.jpg (http://img179.echo.cx/my.php?image=z7un.jpg)it's funny - i was chatting to my friend who saw this pic and i suggested it looked like a shot from a .50 cal barratt rifle. they're a powerful gun, and i knew that by the look of the pic it must have been one. should have put money on it eh :rolleyes:Interweb legends rawk, but don't bet on them ;)

[MCHeshPants420]

I love the smell of pwnage in the afternoon.

btw I see that picture is still up yet I recall other members being banned/moderated just for posting links to such pictures. Hmm?

[GepperRankins]

it also says KFOR on the vehicle. i don't think there's KFOR in iraq is there?

[Busyman]

I've just read thro' this car-crash of a thread and can't quite believe the content.

All is NOT fair in war and just because the enemy violates a multitude of stipulations, doesn't mean that we have to do the same. If they prove themselves to be callous murderous bastards then why follow suit. They gunned down your comrade in cold blood but be the better man and treat his captured comrades with dignity. There is no advantage to be gained by being equally inhuman.

Apart from anything else, it isn't like a tactic we have to use to demoralise the enemy forces. What's left of them, anyway.

I totally agree with Dave's posts; I don't buy into this eye for an eye shit.


Btw, that pic of the suicide bomber and his supposed killer - the soldier is pictured in Kosovo (does the scenery even look like Iraq :blink:) - he'd have to be a damn good shot to get him from there.

http://img179.echo.cx/img179/4382/z7un.jpg
I could care less about the photo's authenticity.

Tbh mank, I would hate if our soldiers started filming the killing of unarmed folks for effect.

I think some have pointed out that making someone pose nude doesn't compare to the helicopter crash doohicky. I must agree.

[cpt_azad]

Back on topic (sorta), why hasn't that pic been reported yet?

[Rip The Jacker]

Yeah. Okay.

This is not a place to argue/flame other members, if you want to argue/flame, PM the other member. I tried my best to clean it all up, stop now or the thread will be closed.

[manker]

I could care less about the photo's authenticity.

Tbh mank, I would hate if our soldiers started filming the killing of unarmed folks for effect.

I think some have pointed out that making someone pose nude doesn't compare to the helicopter crash doohicky. I must agree.Quite, doesn't make the humiliation okay tho'. We must not allow our own standards to degrade because of the actions of others.


Regarding the photo's authenticity - it doesn't matter in the context, I just thought it funny that a, ahem, military expert can decide from the state of a person's splattered head the weapon used to cause the carnage yet couldn't tell that the assailant had woodland camouflage on, in a lush green area with the code for a Kosovo armament on his vehicle :lol:

[manker]

Yeah. Okay.

This is not a place to argue/flame other members, if you want to argue/flame, PM the other member. I tried my best to clean it all up, stop now or the thread will be closed.Did I get flamed for teh pwnage, or was it something else :unsure:

[MCHeshPants420]

Yeah. Okay.

This is not a place to argue/flame other members, if you want to argue/flame, PM the other member. I tried my best to clean it all up, stop now or the thread will be closed.

Wow. I didn't think you guys were moderating stuff anymore. This thread should have been closed a long time back. :dry:

[MCHeshPants420]

Did I get flamed for teh pwnage, or was it something else :unsure:


I assume that Busyman replied to my post I made at 4am-ish (sorry didn't get to read it...), or more likely he reported it.

[manker]

I assume that Busyman replied to my post I made at 4am-ish (sorry didn't get to rad it...), or more likely he reported it.Drunk Chebus :01:

[Busyman]

Wow. I didn't think you guys were moderating stuff anymore. This thread should have been closed a long time back. :dry:
Well if a mod looks in and there is a stink about it then action would most likely be taken.

I'm surprised the pic wasn't taken down as well but really didn't care since it didn't bother me.

I ultimately was hoping that no action was taken against Samurai especially since "past practice" was brought up.

[Busyman]

Quite, doesn't make the humiliation okay tho'. We must not allow our own standards to degrade because of the actions of others.


Regarding the photo's authenticity - it doesn't matter in the context, I just thought it funny that a, ahem, military expert can decide from the state of a person's splattered head the weapon used to cause the carnage yet couldn't tell that the assailant had woodland camouflage on, in a lush green area with the code for a Kosovo armament on his vehicle :lol:
Gotcha. It could have been a plastic gun in someone's backyard and I wouldn't have scrutinized it.

I don't see too much wrong with certain humiliation but whatever happened to keeping shit like this secret.

Everyone knows it has gone on for years but now we have folks taking photos and shit. Prisoners will always get leaned on for info. It's as simple as that.

Some things in the Geneva Convention are horribly soft.

I don't even think you forced sleep deprivation ffs.
It sounds like once you a prisoner, you are to be treated with "dignity" and 3 three meals a day.

This isn't capture the flag or laser tag.