Congrats to the Labor party today.......

[<HELLS^ANGEL>]

Good work indeed....So you lost some seats in commons. Whatever

Another British pawn/figurehead/lapdog P.M. to serve "our{USA}" wishes in the Middle East cesspool.

I sincerely wish you all the best in your future endevours. You all must understand that U really are our {the Mighty USA} pawns
in this whole scheme.

American here: Bow down!!!!!

[vidcc]

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/ooo.jpg :rolleyes:


I feel that your post doesn't deserve serious debate.

[GepperRankins]

it does. tony blair is a dick. i don't suppose howard would have been much better though :dry:

[GepperRankins]

From the election one may conclude, with no argument, that aggregate support for Blair is in excess of any other viable party/candidate in your fair Kingdom.

What this means, very simply, is that a majority (albeit only a political majority) thinks Blair is the best bet, and that those who oppose him are in a (political) minority, which is to say that there are more of them then there are of you.

Are any of you nay-sayers of a mind to respect this fact, or are you inclined to think Blair-supporters doody-heads not worth your time-of-day?

In other words, are they less worthy of respect than gays?

How about if they were gay, in addition to being doody-headed oppositionists? :huh:
to be fair. i don't know an intelligent labour voter (though i'm thinking maybe manker voted for them :ph34r: ), or one that read anything other than what rupert murdock wanted them too :dry:

edit: so yeah, you're wrong, because the politically minded {presuming that what "(political)" means} majority is against labour

[bigboab]

From the election one may conclude, with no argument, that aggregate support for Blair is in excess of any other viable party/candidate in your fair Kingdom.

What this means, very simply, is that a majority (albeit only a political majority) thinks Blair is the best bet, and that those who oppose him are in a (political) minority, which is to say that there are more of them then there are of you.

Are any of you nay-sayers of a mind to respect this fact, or are you inclined to think Blair-supporters doody-heads not worth your time-of-day?

In other words, are they less worthy of respect than gays?

How about if they were gay, in addition to being doody-headed oppositionists? :huh:


The final statistics are not yet out. But Blairs share of the vote is about 33%. That allows him to lead this country for the next five years. :( One third of the voters elected his party. How can this be democracy? Could you explain that to a 5 year old? No I am not the five year old. :lol:

Gay? Your fellow countryman answered that. :lol:


American here: Bow down!!!!!

The day I bend to the colonies will be my last. :ph34r:

[Rat Faced]

which is to say that there are more of them then there are of you.

No there isnt.

The constituancies are such that the Conservatives would have had to pool approx 10% more of the votes to get the same number of seats as Labour.

Add to this the Postal Ballot scandal, and the fact most of the Armed Services mysteriously lost their right to vote in this election due to an administrative mixup.. well, you do the math.

He was elected by less people that voted Labour in the 1992(?) defeat of that party under the welsh sod, as an example... something like 31% of the electorate, if i remember correctly.


As it happens, its probably the result we wanted and no way on earth could have organised... Labour in power (because we want this Chancellor for the economy), but Blairs power somewhat curtailed, in that he cannot now ride roughshod over Parliament. His days as PM are probably numbered, and i welcome the time Mr Brown takes over..except, well I like that guy as Chancellor..who could replace him there?

The politics of this country are different from your own. Mr Blaire has lost a lot of power within his own Party, Mr Brown has gained that power.. in Party Polical terms.

There is enough backbench opposition in his own Party that contravertial policies will have a rough time making it through, so we may not now get those bloody stupid ID cards he's so keen on, for example. Beforehand, even opposition in his own party could not overcome his Majority of sheep and Lapdogs. ;)


Im very satisfied that the Newcatle area has overnight been transformed from a "Labour Heartland" into a number of Labour Marginal Seats... "Swing States" in American-Speak.

For the 1st time ever, my vote actually matters now.. :devil:

[GepperRankins]

i live in a "labour heartland". i reckon billboards saying "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHY YOU VOTE LABOUR?" would be more effective than a pic of charles kennedy's ugly mug, that provided an independent thought can be provoked.

incase you haven't noticed i've come to the conclusion that most labour voters don't know why they vote :dry:

[Rat Faced]

:01: :01: :01:

I did my bit getting us to be a marginal..

With our LibDem council doing more in the last year than the Labour council did in the 15 years prior, and having the Lowest increase in Council Tax since it was brought in to too...

...maybe more of my neighbours will see the light next time ;)

[GepperRankins]

:01: :01: :01:

I did my bit getting us to be a marginal..

With our LibDem council doing more in the last year than the Labour council did in the 15 years prior, and having the Lowest increase in Council Tax since it was brought in to too...

...maybe more of my neighbours will see the light next time ;)
convince them. i'm scared i might stop washing and become a political activist :fear:

[Rat Faced]

Dont want to convince them too much, until more Conservatives die of old age or terminal stupidity...

The only thing that scares me more than an unfettered Blaire, is the Tories winning power again. :(

[GepperRankins]

My understanding is that you basically had all your votes split three ways, ergo the winning party (Blair's) is a political rather than an absolute majority, and that the remaining 66-67% are by no means similarly enough-minded to effectively oppose the Labour party.

In any case, considering that one of the parties on the sidelines in the U.K. is Conservative, and must, by virtue of Blair having remained in office, be worth approximately a third of the vote also, or all you liberals would all be jumping for joy because you'd have won, rather than Blair, right?

Either that, or Blair's party is worth a good bit more than the aforementioned 33%...

Have you been experimenting with a "newer" new math?

I mention all this by way of pointing out that since your neighbor on the sidelines is even further from you politically than Blair's Labour party (and would likely get my vote were I a citizen there), the overwhelming evidence lends to my conclusion that the U.K., as represented in this forum, is indeed not politically reflective of the larger population over there. ;)
umm... err... come again?


after reading that a few times i think i know what you're saying... but you're wrong IMO.


theres too many idiots that vote labour and maybe some conservative that vote their way because newspapers told them too or they just have for as long as they can remember. they don't consider the options they just think "i vote so-and-so, cos that's what i do".

there's also been, i reckon, the same basic arguements in most peoples' mind;
"tony blair's an arse, so i'll get him out and vote conservative"
"tony blair's an arse, but a conservative government would be worse, i'll vote labour"
"lib-dems would be good but no-one else will vote for them, so i'll vote against labour or conservative"

something like that anyway, but i feel i'm babbling. it's past my bedtime


p.s. i'm not saying all labour or conservative voters are stupid. i'm saying those who don't actually know why they vote fluck up democracy, so they just shouldn't vote.

[Busyman]

The day I bend to the colonies will be my last. :ph34r:
Our national anthem reflects not bending to the British. Cool

I hear it before every sports game. :)

[uNz[i]]

Our national anthem reflects not bending to the British. Cool

I hear it before every sports game. :)
We know, we know. :pinch:

[bigboab]

Our national anthem reflects not bending to the British. Cool

I hear it before every sports game. :)

You mean you are forced to hear it before every sports game. If they played it at the end most people would just leave. :) As happened here when they played it in the theatres and movies 40 years ago and more. They eventually dropped playing it. :)

[JPaul]

I am one of the no-thinking idiots who vote labour, without knowing the reason why.

Having said that I've not known why for quite a long time. Including the heights of the last Conservative Government.

Feck my idiocy goes right back to the time when huge quantities of the countries assets, including housing and telecommunications were sold-off in order to finance inept management of the economy.

[GepperRankins]

I am one of the no-thinking idiots who vote labour, without knowing the reason why.

Having said that I've not known why for quite a long time. Including the heights of the last Conservative Government.

Feck my idiocy goes right back to the time when huge quantities of the countries assets, including housing and telecommunications were sold-off in order to finance inept management of the economy.
so that's why you don't vote conservative, but there's other parties out there. why vote labour over them?

[lynx]

I am one of the no-thinking idiots who vote labour, without knowing the reason why.

Having said that I've not known why for quite a long time. Including the heights of the last Conservative Government.

Feck my idiocy goes right back to the time when huge quantities of the countries assets, including housing and telecommunications were sold-off in order to finance inept management of the economy.
No-thinking is right. Just hoodwinked by Alistair "Goebbels" Campbell's propoganda spin.

What's changed since Labour took office in '97? Massive tax increases, millions looking forward to pension deficits, catastrophic housing price increases and unheard of levels of private borrowing caused by irresponsible loss of control of interest rates, extortionate increases in local government taxation and absolutely no improvement in public services. And absolutely no change in the attitude by government to the very things you complain about.

One thing people seem to have overlooked. There's been massive private borrowing, which means that record levels of VAT have been collected on the things bought with that borrowing. When the borrowing stops, and it must soon, so does the VAT income. How is the government going to fill that little gap?

Phew, at least when Blair goes and Brown takes over that will all change, won't it. Won't it? It's Brown who is responsible for this economic "miracle", not Blair. God help us all.

[Biggles]

My understanding is that you basically had all your votes split three ways, ergo the winning party (Blair's) is a political rather than an absolute majority, and that the remaining 66-67% are by no means similarly enough-minded to effectively oppose the Labour party.

In any case, considering that one of the parties on the sidelines in the U.K. is Conservative, and must, by virtue of Blair having remained in office, be worth approximately a third of the vote also, or all you liberals would all be jumping for joy because you'd have won, rather than Blair, right?

Either that, or Blair's party is worth a good bit more than the aforementioned 33%...

Have you been experimenting with a "newer" new math?

I mention all this by way of pointing out that since your neighbor on the sidelines is even further from you politically than Blair's Labour party (and would likely get my vote were I a citizen there), the overwhelming evidence lends to my conclusion that the U.K., as represented in this forum, is indeed not politically reflective of the larger population over there. ;)

Labour got 36% of the vote Tories 33%, Liberals 23% and other parties 8%

Because of the way the votes split in individual constituencies, Labour got 356 seats, Tories 197, Liberals 62 and others 30 (with one seat still up for grabs as one of the candidates died during the campaign) On the whole the Liberals and the Others are more likely to side with Labour than the Tories (with the exception of the 9 DUP MPs)

Much is made of Blairs reduced majority. However as the 5 Sinn Fein members won't come to Westminster he has a working majority of 71. This is generally considered pretty damned good (when not being compared to record landslides). What Blair has to be mindful of is that those Labour MPs who were vociferous against the war and some of his more authoritarian moves on liberty increased their vote, whereas those who lost their seats were his most loyal backbench supporters. In short the electorate has retained Labour comfortably in power but strengthened the hand of the left wing.

On the whole, it would appear that Mr Blair is aware of this message and appears content to knuckle down and get on with things that really matter - like his promise to improve the NHS (although I have to say that my experience so far with my daughter going through various tests and consultations is that they are, in some areas at least, already pretty damned good). Hopefully, there will be no more madcap foreign adventures but I guess the European Constitution is just around the corner - if the French don't put that to bed we will no doubt be up to our ears in Yes/No referendum pamphlets.

For the record, I am never entirely sure why I vote the way I do either. :)

[JPaul]

so that's why you don't vote conservative, but there's other parties out there. why vote labour over them?
Because, in my opinion they are the best party to lead the country. From both an economic point of view and a social justice point of view.

I do not think that they are perfect, far from it, however I do believe that they are the best of what is available.

[GepperRankins]

Because, in my opinion they are the best party to lead the country. From both an economic point of view and a social justice point of view.

I do not think that they are perfect, far from it, however I do believe that they are the best of what is available.
fair enough. but you're not "no-thinking" like some people are.

[Biggles]

No-thinking is right. Just hoodwinked by Alistair "Goebbels" Campbell's propoganda spin.

What's changed since Labour took office in '97? Massive tax increases, millions looking forward to pension deficits, catastrophic housing price increases and unheard of levels of private borrowing caused by irresponsible loss of control of interest rates, extortionate increases in local government taxation and absolutely no improvement in public services. And absolutely no change in the attitude by government to the very things you complain about.

One thing people seem to have overlooked. There's been massive private borrowing, which means that record levels of VAT have been collected on the things bought with that borrowing. When the borrowing stops, and it must soon, so does the VAT income. How is the government going to fill that little gap?

Phew, at least when Blair goes and Brown takes over that will all change, won't it. Won't it? It's Brown who is responsible for this economic "miracle", not Blair. God help us all.


Lynx

As I think Gramsci once said, "it doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in".

Given the above, I take it you didn't vote Labour. :whistling

However, apart from the stealth taxes, what is different? The last Government had a property price bubble, unfeasible spending by the public borrowed against said bubble, then negative equity, high inflation and high interest rates to boot - not to mention an awful trade deficit and low growth.

I would agree that Brown does not walk on water but I think many of the problems are endemic to western society (buy now pay later) and the colour of government will change little (as evidenced in the US where tax breaks for the rich have sucked in imports of finished goods rather than stimulate growth at home). His one real mistake, made as soon they took office back in 97, was cancelling the Pension tax relief. That £3 billion needs to be redirected back where it came from.

[JPaul]

As a slight aside, I approve of taxes on spending over taxes on earning. These give one more control over how much tax one pays.

The basic principle is that someone who can afford (or wants to) spend £1,000 on a TV will pay £175 in VAT (assuming the £1,000 to be Net, obviously). Someone who can afford (or wants to) spend £500 on a TV will pay £87.50 in VAT (with the same assumption).

The same goes for things like duties and taxes on alcohol, cigarettes, fuel etc. One has control, to a degree, on whether one pays tax, or on how much. I like that.

Back on track, it is my opinion that Labour are for the most part doing a good job of running the country. Like I said with regard to both the economy and the socialist principle of "from each according to his means, to each according to his needs". I can see no viable alternative, certainly not the Conservatives and absolutely not with Howard at the helm.

As such I vote labour in general elections. I will do the same (probably) at the Scottish Executive election, but that's a wee bit away so one never knows. For local elections I am more interested in local issues, but to be honest would tend towards a labour candidate, simply because they are more likely to hold similar views to mine.

[bigboab]

I voted Scottish Socialist. No chance of being elected but neither did anyone else, except New' Labour. New Labour, more right wing than Ted Heath and I dont mean the band leader. :)

The only problem I had with Scottish Socialists was their idea of giving hard drugs on prescription. Cant have it all I suppose. :(

There was no Monster Raving Loony Party candidate in my area or I would have voted for them. :lol:

[Illuminati]

There was no Monster Raving Loony Party candidate in my area or I would have voted for them. :lol:

Veritarse wasn't running in your constituency, I assume? ;)

Anyway - TBH I'm both happy & sad at the result. I would have preferred that Lib Dems got a cracking result that ousted the Tories as the official Opposition. It was a great result for them but no cigar - Maybe with the Tories in their current state, the time between now & the next election will make it so :)

Like many, Labour wasn't my first choice but it wasn't my last either - I couldn't really go with Labour after the past few years but being in a railway family meant there was no chance I could vote Tory either. Shame my vote got lost

Labour won - as many hated but wanted - but their majority is severly cut. Hopefully the time of the government expecting things to be passed without a hitch will now be over. :D I know for one that my local MP, being in a Labour stronghold, should now be watching what she votes for in the HoC after her majority got slashed from 14,000 to just over 1,000 :D

[Rat Faced]

Originally Posted by lynx
No-thinking is right. Just hoodwinked by Alistair "Goebbels" Campbell's propoganda spin.

What's changed since Labour took office in '97? Massive tax increases, millions looking forward to pension deficits, catastrophic housing price increases and unheard of levels of private borrowing caused by irresponsible loss of control of interest rates, extortionate increases in local government taxation and absolutely no improvement in public services. And absolutely no change in the attitude by government to the very things you complain about.

One thing people seem to have overlooked. There's been massive private borrowing, which means that record levels of VAT have been collected on the things bought with that borrowing. When the borrowing stops, and it must soon, so does the VAT income. How is the government going to fill that little gap?

Phew, at least when Blair goes and Brown takes over that will all change, won't it. Won't it? It's Brown who is responsible for this economic "miracle", not Blair. God help us all.


The very thought of the Conservatives in power again brings on nightmares.. I'm so glad that they were stupid enough to put Howard in charge.

It was a tough Job to find someone as intensly disliked as Blaire is at the moment... but the Tories were upto that challenge.

As someone on TV pointed out (after the election).. how can we trust someone to run the country that doesnt even trust his hands to move independantly. If he is so desperate to hide his body language..what would it be saying?

[Busyman]

You mean you are forced to hear it before every sports game. If they played it at the end most people would just leave. :) As happened here when they played it in the theatres and movies 40 years ago and more. They eventually dropped playing it. :)
Bottomline is America stopped bending to the British long ago and we turned out alright. ;)

[GepperRankins]

Bottomline is America stopped bending to the British long ago and we turned out alright. ;)
yeah kinda.

but, now we're the benders :(

[Rat Faced]

Bottomline is America stopped bending to the British long ago and we turned out alright. ;)


"Mr. Chairman, the Fed has offered to collect the British claims in full from the American public by trickery and corruption, if Great Britain will help to conceal its crimes. The British are shielding their agents, the Fed, because they do not wish that system of robbery to be destroyed here. They wish it to continue for their benefit! By means of it, Great Britain has become the financial mistress of the world. She has regained the position she occupied before the World War."

"For several years she has been a silent partner in the business of the Fed. Under threat of blackmail, or by their bribery, or by their native treachery to the people of the United States, the officials in charge of the Fed unwisely gave Great Britain immense gold loans running into hundreds of millions of dollars. They did this against the law! Those gold loans were not single transactions. They gave Great Britain a borrowing power in the United States of billions. She squeezed billions out of this Country by means of her control of the Fed."

Congressman Louis T McFadden - 1933


Also, look up who the largest Landlord on wallstreet actually is..

You think we'd let you go that easy?

Bend over and take it like a man, biatch :P

[Rat Faced]

At a rough guess...

5%, 0%, 5%

Only the 3 main parties accounted.

However, please take into account that I have an intense biase against all politicians :P

[bigboab]

Bottomline is America stopped bending to the British long ago and we turned out alright. ;)


:lol: :lol: :lol: Yes the most loved country in the world. Followed by the UK In the same context. :(

[GepperRankins]

Ah, the facts.

Thank you for that, Biggles.

So then, as I said, the (political) majority, who voted Labour, are not proportionally represented here, and the Conservatives are totally absent.

I'm pretty sure that means that only the voice of your political minorities (absent conservatives, of course) post in this forum.

JPaul aside, that is.

At least he doesn't know why, and I forgive him this peccadillo. :P

Now, let me ask this:

Of the percentages Biggles so graciously provided, how many of each (also expressed as a percentage) would you say have a functioning brain?

Here are the percentages Biggles provided:

Labour 36%

Tory 33%

Liberal 23%

Other 8%
depends what you mean by functioning brain. i honestly believe it would have been a lot closer had everyone had a functioning brain if i know what you're saying

[Busyman]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yes the most loved country in the world. Followed by the UK In the same context. :(
Loved by Americans, sure.

Britain has had it's dirt too....with a hand in many countries.

[Barbarossa]

I too was hoping the Lib Dems would become the main party in opposition :(

Interestingly, enough, although the tories gained a number of seats, their percentage share of the vote did not increase at all.

That is to say, the ex-labour voters who have deserted, did not desert to the tories, but to the lib-dems, and (sadly) the idiots of the BNP... (Thankfully, not Kilroy-" billy no mates"-Silk tho')

I think the new make-up of parliament is better for democracy, and hopefully we will avoid having to pay for ID cards for a while...

If the next couple of years are good for the economy, and they can find a competent replacement chancellor for Mr Brown (at the moment I have no idea who), then when blair steps aside in favour of him (which is inevitable) I can see the labour vote increasing in the next election. :01:

P.S. I live in a safe tory seat and voted lib-dem. It's still a safe tory seat. :frusty:

[GepperRankins]

You do know what I'm saying, Dave.

Point being that the party in charge must be given it's due, and that needn't include accusations of stupidity or ignorance.

After all, if the Liberals were in charge, or if the Labour party were configured to your liking, or if their leader was not inclined to throw in with the U.S., you might find yourself described as being at a mental/intellectual deficit, too. :)

Stupidity is not a particularly effective way of gaining political hegemony.

Either that, or it's definitely the way to go.

You see? :D
meh. i don't mind a difference of oppinions, as long as there is oppinions

[sArA]

I too was hoping the Lib Dems would become the main party in opposition :(

Interestingly, enough, although the tories gained a number of seats, their percentage share of the vote did not increase at all.

That is to say, the ex-labour voters who have deserted, did not desert to the tories, but to the lib-dems, and (sadly) the idiots of the BNP... (Thankfully, not Kilroy-" billy no mates"-Silk tho')

I think the new make-up of parliament is better for democracy, and hopefully we will avoid having to pay for ID cards for a while...

If the next couple of years are good for the economy, and they can find a competent replacement chancellor for Mr Brown (at the moment I have no idea who), then when blair steps aside in favour of him (which is inevitable) I can see the labour vote increasing in the next election. :01:

P.S. I live in a safe tory seat and voted lib-dem. It's still a safe tory seat. :frusty:



Funny...but that was pretty much what I was going to say, but you did it for me :)

Our 'safe' tory seat had its majority reduced....David Tredinick is an arrogant back bench patsy imo. Still, we are still largely a Lib Dem local area.

Was it just me or was there very little local campaigning going on this time? I barely saw a poster or billboard and no one came to my house canvassing. :blink:

[lynx]

I agree.

I wish more people realized it, though. :(I knew you agreed. :blink:

[JPaul]

I agree.

I wish more people realized it, though. :(
What a load of tosh.