Anyone watch....

[(>Zero Cool<)]

The Ch 4 thing on the Heysel stadium disaster and/or the Mourinho thing on BBC1 last night?

I watched the Heysel thing, found it really interesting and very disturbing. The Mourinho thing is on tonight up here, just wondered if it was any good?

:)

[SpatulaGeekGirl]

No, what's it about?

[(>Zero Cool<)]

No, what's it about?

Ehm :unsure: the Heysel stadium disaster was about the Heysel stadium disaster and the Mourinho thing is a programme about the Chelsea manager Mourinho including an interview with Gary Lineker. Is that what you meant? :ermm:

[manker]

I purposely avoided the Mourinho documentary and missed the Hysel due to me not knowing it was on :unsure:

Not really been much help but I suggest you avoid watching the Mourinho documentary too. Fecking coming over here, stealing our trophies, shagging our women and drinking our beer :dry:

[DanB]

Mourinho manages a team in England, Scotland & Wales? :ohmy:

[manker]

Mourinho manages a team in England, Scotland & Wales? :ohmy:I seen he came to Cardiff recently. He did all three of the above, I imagine :dry:

[(>Zero Cool<)]

I purposely avoided the Mourinho documentary and missed the Hysel due to me not knowing it was on :unsure:

Not really been much help but I suggest you avoid watching the Mourinho documentary too. Fecking coming over here, stealing our trophies, shagging our women and drinking our beer :dry:

The Heysel thing was really good I thought. Like you I was pretty young when it happened and though I remember it I didn't know a lot of the surrounding issues and how it changed things. It was very very disturbing to watch again.

Mourinho hasn't any of our trophies nor has he been near my pals as far as I know and i just did a stock take of my beer in the fridge and he hasn't been round :huh: He ain't any different from Ferguson or Wenger in his foreigness :unsure:

I like him, good to see another character in the game. I think his top quote tonight (last night for England) was something like ''I'm not arrogant I'm just special'' I shall be watching..if I stay awake :rolleyes:

[lynx]

I can clearly remember the Heysel tragedy the first time around.

As shown in last night's program, the stadium itself was clearly in appalling condition and should never have been used for such a match.

What wasn't shown last night were the actions of a large number of Juventus supporters. I remember seeing lots of missiles coming from that direction and saw one weapon which was some sort of home made flare gun, and another which could have been something similar. It was later claimed that the gun was a starting pistol, but if so how it managed to fire flares I'll never understand. There were plenty of catapult type weapons too.

While it in no way excuses what they did, I suspect that some of the action of the Liverpool "fans" was in reaction to the barrage of missiles to which they were being subjected. All this was clearly shown on tv when the incident actually took place, I can't believe that none of it was recorded or that those recordings have been lost, but I've never seen that side of things shown since.

At the time English fans abroad were a disgrace and something clearly needed to be done, and this was the trigger. But I would have thought that by now it would be possible to show a more realistic sequence of events. Perhaps the 20th aniversary wasn't the time though.

Strangely, there has never been an inquiry into the causes of the disaster. It is suggested that it may have been a result of the 1984 final, where Italian "ultras" were virtually given free rein to attack Liverpool fans after the match, and that some sort of revenge was planned by hooligan elements. I feel sure there were plenty of the "ultras" in the Juventus crowd too.

[manker]

The Everton supporers I talk to are particularly vehement about this subject - hardly surprising when you consider that they missed out on several European campaigns, at a time when they had a peerless team, because of the ensuing ban.

They blame Liverpool.

I have an open mind and think that maybe if the wall had come down on Liverpool fans rather than Juve fans, the ban may have been reversed. Both sets of fans were clearly to blame but apportioning this blame seems problematic to me. I've read many (forum) debates on the matter and can't seem to decide one way or t'other.

[lynx]

I agree, I think it was very much an action-reaction thing.

I wasn't trying to apportion blame if that's how it appeared, merely pointing out that they weren't solely responsible. And that last night's program, while more balanced than most have been in the past, still did not show the full story.

[JPaul]

I too remember watching the events unfold.

It was truly a tragic evening and provided images that will live for a lifetime.

I thought the Belgian authorities held an enquiry. There were certainly arrests made and people went to jail for their part in it.

[(>Zero Cool<)]

A couple of things I took from last night was that however many areas were at fault something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. Also th*tch*r :dry: was set on making changes no matter what the outcome of the inquiry was. I agree that changes needed to be made somewhere but am not sure that those that were made were the correct ones. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

@JP there was an inqury made by the Belgians. About a dozen plus Liverpool fans were given jail sentences but as they had already been held up until the time of the inquiry many were released for time-spent. There was also a call for an interior minister, who basically was in charge of policing etc to resign. He refused and was backed by the Belgian government as he/they believed that would mean accepting the blame (according to last nights documentary).

I'm not sure but some of the footage shown last night wasn't shown at the time as far as I can remember...they were horriffic images.

[JPaul]

Afterwards, there were moves from fans to initiate friendship exchanges after the official enquiry rightly blamed Uefa and the Belgium police for their part in the tragedy as well as both sets of fans. Some fans were extradited to Brussels to stand trial over the following three years for hooligan offences. Not one Juve fan was I think ( but I stand to be corrected on that one) and I think Liverpudlians were given suspended sentences. Some of them serving about a month in Belgium after their initial arrest at the game.

From http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=480600

[manker]

I agree, I think it was very much an action-reaction thing.

I wasn't trying to apportion blame if that's how it appeared, merely pointing out that they weren't solely responsible. And that last night's program, while more balanced than most have been in the past, still did not show the full story.No, I thought your post was good and wasn't trying to contradict anything, mainly I was musing because I can't polarise my opinion like the Everton and Juve fans seem to be able to.

[(>Zero Cool<)]

I thought last nights program never really got down to deciding what the catalyst for the events was, though it suggested that it was the charging Liverpool fans (I had forgotten that there were accusations of missle throwing inciting the charge), but showed that there were many ares that contributed to the scale of the disaster.

[JPaul]

I agree, I think it was very much an action-reaction thing.

I wasn't trying to apportion blame if that's how it appeared, merely pointing out that they weren't solely responsible. And that last night's program, while more balanced than most have been in the past, still did not show the full story.
I agree, the enquiry blamed many people / groups, including UEFA for using a totally crap stadium to hold such a big game.

One suspects that these Liverpool fans were used to get the English fans out of Europe. Whilst they did play their part in the tragedy they were also paying for various other incidents involving English football hooligans. Ti's a shame that the vast majority of good fans were tarred with the same brush