London tubes

[Gemby!]

oh noes - liverpool street station line thingy exploded and now none of the tube stations in london, at all, are working

:01: olympics, here we come :01:

[Rat Faced]

There's apparently been a number of explosions... including a Bus.

[Gripper]

Bus confirmed blown up,some fatalities,multiple explosions confirmed,London in chaos

[99shassan]

bermondsey tube station is shut down, was there when it happened but i don't know why.

[Mr. Mulder]

sh*t, I've got to catch a few trains and buses in a bit, hope it doesn't spread to the midlands :fear:

[Barbarossa]

This sounds pretty bad! :(

[99shassan]

"Earlier, police said several blasts went off on the London subway system, injuring some people and prompting officials to shut down the entire underground network a day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics and as the G8 summit was getting underway in Scotland"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050707.wunderground0707/BNStory/International/

[Peerzy]

An explosion on an underground train and people were left injured in there for 40+minutes apparently then another explosion on a bus at street level right near the station. Police say they don't know if it's related to terrorism but it sounds like thats what's happened.

Revenge of the french maybe :unsure:

[Mr. Mulder]

I think a bombs gone off in Liverpool now, think I'll leave the traveling for today :ermm:

Edit: Liverpool Street Station :blushing:

[Peerzy]

What are the chances of a number of explosions happening by accident or a fault :unsure:

ITV has good coverage, Government just confirmed at least 20 people and expect the number to rise by alot.

Funny thing was that i should be in London right now for a job interview but overslept :shyte:

[Barbarossa]

Nobody knows what the fuck is happening just yet, I think we'd better leave the speculation until we get some concrete facts... It doesn't look good though. :(

[sArA]

20 dead and 90 injured ...... so far....


A very sad day....but I guess it had to happen here sooner or later....:(

[ziggyjuarez]

Who gone did and done it?

[Peerzy]

This reminds me of Die Hard 3 :cry:

[Gripper]

Just seen picture of double decker bus on tv roof of bus blown off,fuckin bastards

[4play]

cant connect to bbc news at the minute but they were running a story which says that it was power lines at fault.
@sara where did you get them figures from ?

this comes just after the ppp or who ever it was that took over control of the tube got fined for shite performance.

[Peerzy]

BBC1 (TV) Says Swindon Station (Not in London) is being evacuated due to a 'serious secruity risk'

Blair will be giving a statement at 12 noon.

[Gripper]

itv covering story,government source saying there had been 20 fatalities,police man saying there had been as many as 6 explosiond

[Peerzy]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41276000/gif/_41276695_london_tube_map416.gif

-Report of explosion on Metropolitan Line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate
-Further explosions reported at Aldgate East, Edgware Road, King's Cross, Russell Square and Moorgate
-Two Underground trains collide near King's Cross

[Barbarossa]

A very sad day....but I guess it had to happen here sooner or later....:(


What do you mean? London is no stranger to terrorist attacks.

[brenda]

my sister had a meeting in london today

i cant get hold of her.......... mobile not on

:(

[ziggyjuarez]

dont you people have problems with the irish or something?

[Barbarossa]

my sister had a meeting in london today

i cant get hold of her.......... mobile not on

:(

Mobile networks are totally overloaded by people trying to contact family, etc, I hope she's OK though! :(

[Gripper]

dont you people have problems with the irish or something?
Don't think this is the IRA things had quitened down a bit on that front,no one knows yet

[4play]

the news also said the police may have also shutdown the phone networks as it could be used as a way to set off another explosion.

we are pretty used to terrorist attacks. im from ealing and we have had about 8 or 9 bombs set off around here by the ira and other splinter groups in recent memory.

this strikes me as something like the madrid attacks so maybe bin ladens lot at work.

[brenda]

hope all london board members r safe and well

[sArA]

A very sad day....but I guess it had to happen here sooner or later....:(


What do you mean? London is no stranger to terrorist attacks.

What I meant was, that after 9/11 and Madrid...it was only a matter of time....

Obviously Barbie, I am aware of our history, but I am refering to more recent events and not the IRA incidents of previous years.

[99shassan]

there was a bomb in wandsworth. a day after london gets teh olympics

[Barbarossa]

Apparently a suicide bomber has been shot at Canary Wharf!!

EDIT: This story has now been denied by police.

[{I}{K}{E}]

Apparently a suicide bomber has been shot at Canary Wharf!!

are you sure?
because the attacks this morning weren't done by suicide bombers :huh:

our news is always behind :(

[Barbarossa]

Apparently a suicide bomber has been shot at Canary Wharf!!

are you sure?
because the attacks this morning werent done by suicide bombers :huh:

our news is always behind :(

No, it's as yet unconfirmed. (whoops).

A colleague of mine got it from a friend of hers who works for BBC world news. I probably should have waited.. :blushing:


EDIT: Reports of a shooting of a terrorist have been denied by police.

[manker]

DanB's just phoned, he's okay. There's been explosions hear him tho'.

Hope all the other members from London are safe.

This seems to have been meticulously planned. I hope that story of a suicide bomber is false 'cos I doubt he'd be alone.

[99shassan]

are you sure?
because the attacks this morning werent done by suicide bombers :huh:

our news is always behind :(

No, it's as yet unconfirmed. (whoops).

A colleague of mine got it from a friend of hers who works for BBC world news. I probably should have waited.. :blushing:

can someone confirm that a package has been found at stockwell station?

[Afronaut]

Cant get http://bbc.co.uk
thought i check the headlines...

k, this opens:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[Afronaut]

It says in the Finnish news (link down below) that there was "about" 6 bombs, 5 in metro and 1 in abus.
Says also that it was a "carefully organized terrorist strike".
There's a chaos in London, the metro-trains net is shut down.

I read about it in Finnish (http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/ulkomaat.shtml/arkistot/ulkomaat/2005/07/378571):.

:(

[4play]

there were 7 bombs , 6 on trains and another on a bus at tavistock square.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41277000/jpg/_41277255_bus_300_245_obi.jpg

[*goddess*]

:( Just been watching broadcast live from London.

:dry: Appears it is most likely a terrorist attack. I don't understand these people, killing/injuring average people just trying to live their lives. My commiserations to all affected, even if a member of your family/friends are not directly affected it still gets to you.

:) Thanks for the news of Dan Manky, Brenda hope you've managed to contact your sister by now.

:hug:

[{I}{K}{E}]

it seems the bus bomb was a suicide bomb

[4play]

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Explosions%2C_'serious_incidents'_occuring_across_London

[matt526]

American news is saying that at least two people are dead. And yes terrorist are taking responsibility for it. We all need to come together and kick these :angry: damn terrorist :angry: in ass
Terrorist that kill innocent people to make there point deserve nothing more then to be lined up against a wall and shot. :angry:

anyway, now that I have vented, this is really a :cry: sad :cry: day in London, My prayers go out to them!

[brenda]

My sister is ok i just had a call to say she arrived just after the shit hit the fan apparently..... But just received a call asking if I've heard off a friend who works in London as she has not contacted her boyfriend (or anyone for that matter)..... I haven't :(

found her :) alive and well

[muchspl3]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1188265,00.html

[Barbarossa]

This is a pretty detailed site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_London_transport_explosions

[Rat Faced]

Now 33 Confirmed fatalities (21 of them at Kings Cross)

No one has formerly claimed responsibility, although an Islamic Website has posted something claiming to be from Al Queda saying that they are responsible.

Going "gung ho" is what they want you to do, so why play into their hands?

Unlike the US and UK Governments, i dont really want to help the terrorist recruitment program. I'd rather the services took their time and did their job so we can go after the right people, the right way. :ph34r:

[Gripper]

our thoughts and prayers should be with the family and friend's of the dead and injured at the moment,all these people acheive is to harden our resolve to hunt them down by commiting these attrocities

Blessed be

[Rat Faced]

Terminal 3 at Heathrow is being Evacuated..

[Barbarossa]

The Emergency Plans appear to be working well, which is good. The sooner we get back to normal here the better.

I'm more sad than angry.

Oh, and ID cards would have helped how.......? (Except to identify the bodies :( )

[GepperRankins]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


what are the chances of us not losing our heads over this like post 911 america :(

[GepperRankins]

American news is saying that at least two people are dead. And yes terrorist are taking responsibility for it. We all need to come together and kick these :angry: damn terrorist :angry: in ass
Terrorist that kill innocent people to make there point deserve nothing more then to be lined up against a wall and shot. :angry:

anyway, now that I have vented, this is really a :cry: sad :cry: day in London, My prayers go out to them!
like this?

[Adster]

well Australia will be next seeing Johnny sent our troops over there to IRAQ for the US war

sydney or Melbourne my guess thank god i live in the country

[Rat Faced]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


Dont forget our own knobhead of a "leader"..

[GepperRankins]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


Dont forget our own knobhead of a "leader"..
i was under the naive impression that al-qaida realised we (the public) didn't support the war or isreal or anything like that. i guess voting blair back in must've wound them up.

[Rat Faced]

They want us to retaliate, hopefully going overboard...

It increases their recruitment and the personal power and status of the leaders.

It may well be that they think the UK will pull out of Iraq sooner rather than later if Bush doesnt move @ G8... it may be their way of inviting us to stay there indefinatly.

Or, they may just be taking advantage of the fact that half the Met were in Scotland to help in the G8 security..

Who knows the mentality of nutters?

[DanB]

F'king bastards :angry:

They have been finding more devices all day, East Croydon train station was evacuated and a device was disarmed. Kingston was locked down after an 'incident', Sutton shopping centres were also evacuated at lunchtime due to another 'incident'.

To start off with the mobile networks were shut down cos they thought thats how they were setting the bombs off but later on the networks were handed over to the emergency services.

It seems there could have been inside knowledge though, because its only last night 1000 Met officers were taken to Gleneagles for the G8 conference following yesterdays rioting.

[Gemby!]

wow, i didnt think this was anythign serious at first, but guess it is ...

had to walk home from college, all buses that go near there have been stopped. been a bit frantic today - calling family and friends who are in central london.

[vidcc]

My sympathies go to the victims and their families.

It may be small Consolation but the British should be proud of their emergency services and their professionalism.

[DanB]

My heart goes out to them too. Its been a fucked up day today

[Snee]

Bunch of nutters if they are who they say they are.

So scared of what'll happen if people start thinking for themselves, which they will if there isn't a common threat like the invading forces.

[JPaul]

My sympathies go to the victims and their families.

It may be small Consolation but the British should be proud of their emergency services and their professionalism.
I totally agree with both sentiments. Requiescant In Pace to the dead, get well soon to the injured and thank you to those who helped them

I also agree with RF that what we need is a measured response. Remember these bombs were indiscriminate. There is no religion which is responsible. No colour which is responsible. No nationality which is responsible. The terrorists killed whoever happened to be there, regardless of creed, colour, sex or age.

Part of the problem we had in Ireland was the heavy handed tactics in the initial stages, emptying a whole street to look for a possible weapon, maybe in one house. Doing this at 5am by getting people out of bed and out onto the street to search their house. Hopefully we have learned that these type of tactics don't work.

Knee jerk reactions only help the terrorists, to recruit and to see that their tactics work. So let's do it properly, using due process and not by making scapegoats out of potential victims.

[RPerry]

our thoughts are with you British friends :cry:


Rob & Dawn

[RPerry]

American news is saying that at least two people are dead. And yes terrorist are taking responsibility for it.

Just to clearify something ....



MSNBC News Services
Updated: 1:44 p.m. ET July 7, 2005

LONDON - Four blasts rocked the London subway and tore open a packed double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday, sending bloodied victims fleeing in the worst attack on London since World War II.

Thirty-seven people were confirmed killed, and more than 700 were wounded in the terror attacks, which a shaken Prime Minister Tony Blair called “barbaric” and blamed on Islamic militants.

“We know that these people act in the name of Islam, but we also know that the vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims both here and abroad are decent and law abiding people who abhor this kind of terrorism every bit as much as we do,” Blair said.

Witnesses described horrific scenes. “It was chaos,” said Gary Lewis, who was evacuated from a subway train at King’s Cross station. “The one haunting image was someone whose face was totally black and pouring with blood.”

The blasts coincided with the Group of Eight summit in Scotland and came a day after London won the bid to host the 2012 Olympics.

A group calling itself The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe claimed responsibility but officials could not verify the claim and no arrests have been made.

'Remain vigilant'
The four explosions went off within an hour, beginning at 8:51 a.m. local time, and hit three subway stations and the double-decker bus. Authorities immediately shut down the subway and bus lines that log 8.4 million passenger trips every weekday.

The bus explosion seemed to go off at the back, said bystander Raj Mattoo. “The roof flew off and went up about 10 meters (30 feet). It then floated back down,” he said. “There were obviously people badly injured. A parking attendant said he thought a piece of human flesh had landed on his arm.”

As the city’s transportation system ground to a near-halt, buses were used as ambulances and an emergency medical station was set up at a hotel. Rescue workers, police and ordinary citizens streamed into the streets to help.

Doctors from the nearby British Medical Association rushed into the street to treat the wounded from the bus. “The front of BMA house was completely splattered with blood and not much of the bus was left,” said Dr. Laurence Buckman.

Some central London streets emptied of traffic. Groups of commuters who had been on their way to work gathered around corner shops with televisions, watching in silence. The mood was somber and subdued.

"The public need to remain vigilant," Andy Trotter of the Transport Police said. "This is an incredibly challenging time for London. We don't know if this is over yet."

At the request of Queen Elizabeth II, the Union Jack flag flying over Buckingham Palace was lowered to half staff.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8492258/


thats whats US news is reporting.....
I'm sure those totals will probably go up to match what London is saying

[bigboab]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


what are the chances of us not losing our heads over this like post 911 america :(

I will limit my involvement in this thread to expressing my sincerest empathy and sympathy to all of London, Britain and the Greater U.K., and especially to those directly affected.

Terrorism is senseless, and should be repugnant even to it's amoral practitioners.

American hearts are with you all.

I will second that J2.:(

[Biggles]

Yet more senseless destruction of the lives and hopes of innocents. Given the extremely cosmopoliton nature of London no doubt many of the victims will themselves be Muslim.

One can only hope this insanity will serve to totally isolate these people from the very community they claim to represent.

Deepest sympathy to all who have suffered and may their God be with them.

[GepperRankins]

the bins at the bus station have bags over them so you can't put stuff in 'em :dry:

[GepperRankins]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


what are the chances of us not losing our heads over this like post 911 america :(

I will limit my involvement in this thread to expressing my sincerest empathy and sympathy to all of London, Britain and the Greater U.K., and especially to those directly affected.

Terrorism is senseless, and should be repugnant even to it's amoral practitioners.

American hearts are with you all.
yeah, same here obviously.


i just don't think people should forget this is a reaction. it would never have happened if we (UK) weren't the US' lapdog.

[JPaul]

I will limit my involvement in this thread to expressing my sincerest empathy and sympathy to all of London, Britain and the Greater U.K., and especially to those directly affected.

Terrorism is senseless, and should be repugnant even to it's amoral practitioners.

American hearts are with you all.
yeah, same here obviously.


i just don't think people should forget this is a reaction. it would never have happened if we (UK) weren't the US' lapdog.

I really hope that people will treat that in the way it deserves to be treated.

[GepperRankins]

ignored?

[mogadishu]

man crazy stuff. Sorry for anyone that was hurt. I know what this is like (i live in manhattan and had relatives that worked in WTC)...

Not to go bush bashing or anything, but hearing tony blair, he seemed genuinely pissed off, not calculated like bush did after 9/11. That was slightly refreshing - he is only a person as well.

[Adster]

several australian injured and 1 critical too news here

[BigBank_Hank]

thanks bush :thumbsup:


what are the chances of us not losing our heads over this like post 911 america :(

I will limit my involvement in this thread to expressing my sincerest empathy and sympathy to all of London, Britain and the Greater U.K., and especially to those directly affected.

Terrorism is senseless, and should be repugnant even to it's amoral practitioners.

American hearts are with you all.
Myself included.

I just hope that no one thinks that this attack took place because of England’s stance on Iraq. This just like the attack of 9/11 was an attack on Western Civilization.

[brotherdoobie]

My best wishes. Courage,London...

Forgiveness is king
By Emeka Azuine

Hatred comes from hearts
That have drowned their love
Enmity thrives in hearts
For whom God means no love.

War comes from hearts
That have dwarfed their brotherhood
Mayhem grows amidst faults
Unreconciled for the boom of good.

Forgiveness blossoms from hearts
That discover triumph in humility
Vendetta moulds around hearts
Like caves plundered by brutality.

When emotions trample over wisdom
We must step backwards and pause
For revenge is like a curse
It denies souls the triumph of freedom.

Heed the words,of JPaul and Rat Faced...prudence...mates...prudence.

Peace bd

[Busyman]

I will limit my involvement in this thread to expressing my sincerest empathy and sympathy to all of London, Britain and the Greater U.K., and especially to those directly affected.

Terrorism is senseless, and should be repugnant even to it's amoral practitioners.

American hearts are with you all.
Myself included.

I just hope that no one thinks that this attack took place because of England’s stance on Iraq.
Oh I imagine it partly is. The heads of Al Qaeda use anything they can to say we are persecuting Muslims.

It is ammo. However I say fuck them. You don't relent because a terrorist bombs you. You try to be fair in your dealings with Muslims but you don't send a message to them that terrorism works by giving them their way.

[GepperRankins]

am i supposed to support your government now? :dry:


this solidarity thing is stupid. we gotta think for ourselves or this attack could be used by our government to attack any muslims they feel like.

[vidcc]

Myself included.

I just hope that no one thinks that this attack took place because of England’s stance on Iraq. This just like the attack of 9/11 was an attack on Western Civilization.

I have no doubt that Iraq is one reason Hank. whether you think we are right or not they very likely believe we are attacking their eastern civilisation. It is a vicious circle. Americans have the attitude "American interests above all else"....EVERY other nation has the same attitude (substitute American with "other") I doubt that our interests are the same as others and vice versa.
Of course I condemn this inexcusable act, they are murderers, nothing else and should be punished. But as I have said before, to eradicate disease we need to not only cure the infection, but the cause of the infection so we are not re-infected.
On a side note, watching shows like Scarborough yesterday I do wonder if the US population in general realises that other nations have endured terrorism for a long time before 9/11 happened.

[JPaul]

am i supposed to support your government now? :dry:


this solidarity thing is stupid. we gotta think for ourselves or this attack could be used by our government to attack any muslims they feel like.
How would that work.

The muderers attack Muslim people, so we take that as an excuse to also attack Muslim people.

I really don't see your logic.

That would be like saying the IRA is predominantly if not entirely Catholic, so if they set of a bomb in London we can attack predominantly Catholic countries.

Or do you mean, like you said that the Government could attack individual Muslims because of this.

[Busyman]

Or do you mean, like you said that the Government could attack individual Muslims because of this.
:ohmy:

[GepperRankins]

am i supposed to support your government now? :dry:


this solidarity thing is stupid. we gotta think for ourselves or this attack could be used by our government to attack any muslims they feel like.
How would that work.

The muderers attack Muslim people, so we take that as an excuse to also attack Muslim people.

I really don't see your logic.

That would be like saying the IRA is predominantly if not entirely Catholic, so if they set of a bomb in London we can attack predominantly Catholic countries.

Or do you mean, like you said that the Government could attack individual Muslims because of this.
one apparent reason we attacked iraq is because of september 11th. until the war there was no link between iraq and al qaida. the war got overwhelming support in america because the people allowed themselves to be convinced a war was justified because iraq apparently had weapons of mass destruction and worked with al qaida. none of these have been proven yet, or any evidence found to suggest they could be true.

it happened because a scared people believed the bullshit they were fed by their government.
now i refuse to see this as an us versus them situation. it's our government's fault and that's how i will remain to see it.

i don't believe people go through the effort to kill innocent people just because they don't like our society and i'm sick of being told that.


so to answer the question. i don't want anybody to attack any muslims because of this, be it a brick through a shop window or invading a country without good reason.

[JPaul]

How would that work.

The muderers attack Muslim people, so we take that as an excuse to also attack Muslim people.

I really don't see your logic.

That would be like saying the IRA is predominantly if not entirely Catholic, so if they set of a bomb in London we can attack predominantly Catholic countries.

Or do you mean, like you said that the Government could attack individual Muslims because of this.
one apparent reason we attacked iraq is because of september 11th. until the war there was no link between iraq and al qaida. the war got overwhelming support in america because the people allowed themselves to be convinced a war was justified because iraq apparently had weapons of mass destruction and worked with al qaida. none of these have been proven yet, or any evidence found to suggest they could be true.

it happened because a scared people believed the bullshit they were fed by their government.
now i refuse to see this as an us versus them situation. it's our government's fault and that's how i will remain to see it.

i don't believe people go through the effort to kill innocent people just because they don't like our society and i'm sick of being told that.


so to answer the question. i don't want anybody to attack any muslims because of this, be it a brick through a shop window or invading a country without good reason.


Iraq is a country. The people of America did not attack the members of a religion.

There were probably American citizens who were also Muslim murdered in the Sept 11th atrocity. I cannot say if it is the case, however it is a distinct possibility that there were Muslims murdered in the London atrocity.

I would be absolutely horrified if our Government declared war on a religion. FFS that's what the holocaust was about and we (the UK and the US) were leading lights in stopping it, along with our other allies.

The UK Government will not use this as a reason to "attack any muslims they feel like".

[AcID ZeR0]

Twas a terrible day on Thursday, I live really near to one of the blasts, granted I slept through it but it really shakes you up when something like this happens on your own door step.

What makes it worse?

I don't know if I should be posting this but it really made me feel sick,
Yesterday at about 10:00pm we had the patio doors open and we heard a noise from the garden directly behind us.
There are foreign people living there (Without going into any ethnic detail).
I went out into the garden and it sounded like they was having a party and I kid you not they where toasting each other and chanting bomb, bomb.

It was reported to Crimestoppers by my Sister.

[GepperRankins]

religion is a tool and you know it. the only al-qaida-iraq link was islam, but that was enough to convince the american public.

[Helghast004]

This is very unfortunate :(


However, It could've been worse. Biological, chemical, or even Nuclear materials could've been involved.

37 Dead and over 400 wounded are the last figures I've heard. Many people are blaming this on the US and it really gets to me :(

[mogadishu]

[QUOTE=GepperRankins]

If you are not of the Muslim faith, you have no right to breath Allah's air-that is the pure fact of their belief.

you've got to be kidding me. this happened because of iraq.. first spain, now england.

[Busyman]

To be fair....

There are no amount of concessions that can be given to these people that will satisfy them.

Their creed now is to destroy America. Plain and simple.

To also believe that their tactics will end there is ridiculous.

To believe this is just because of Iraq is also ridiculous.

What was 9/11 for?
If there was no 9/11, does one think that was the end of it?
Or because the Iraqi war simply exists, then that is the reason for all terrorist attacks?

Regardless of what Bush says, I do not believe there was an Al Qaeda cell in Iraq. I believe they are drawn there (and gained recruits there) due to us simply being there.

It's like some person that you always dreamed about fucking up but lived far, far away and then he visits your neighbor one day.

[GepperRankins]

9/11 was for various reasons. america funding isreal for example.


i reckon the reason we were attacked is not for being british but for being allies of america.



does anyone seriously believe a human being will drop their life and use their savings to go to a training camp in the middle east and then go to a western country and sneak through security and drop a package or even blow themselves up, just because they don't like the idea of casual sex and alcoholism... often from another fucking country that embraces their ideals?

it's not for allah. it's not for fun. it's in the hope of getting their people and their children a better life.

[brotherdoobie]

9/11 was for various reasons. america funding isreal for example.


i reckon the reason we were attacked is not for being british but for being allies of america.



does anyone seriously believe a human being will drop their life and use their savings to go to a training camp in the middle east and then go to a western country and sneak through security and drop a package or even blow themselves up, just because they don't like the idea of casual sex and alcoholism... often from another fucking country that embraces their ideals?

it's not for allah. it's not for fun. it's in the hope of getting their people and their children a better life.

Yes...it happens all the time dave.

Peace bd

[JPaul]

religion is a tool and you know it.
It isn't for the vast majority of peaceful Muslims. Who you don't hear about because they just get on with their life and worship their God.

We must not see the murderers as the religion they hide behind, or the poor people they claim to be supporting. We must see them for what they are, murderers.

Their reason, or justification for this is irrelevant, as it was for the IRA and the UDA and every other group which indiscriminately commits murder.

They gave not one fuck who died or was maimed. It could have been a 5 year old Muslim girl, it did not matter to them.


the only al-qaida-iraq link was islam, but that was enough to convince the american public.

I thought they went into Afghanistan because they were believed to be supporting and harbouring terrorists.

I thought they went into Iraq mainly because they believed that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was willing to use them. Remember this is a man who had actually used chemical weapons.

[JPaul]

9/11 was for various reasons. america funding isreal for example.


i reckon the reason we were attacked is not for being british but for being allies of america.



does anyone seriously believe a human being will drop their life and use their savings to go to a training camp in the middle east and then go to a western country and sneak through security and drop a package or even blow themselves up, just because they don't like the idea of casual sex and alcoholism... often from another fucking country that embraces their ideals?

it's not for allah. it's not for fun. it's in the hope of getting their people and their children a better life.


Do you have the remotest ability to see the World thro' other people's eyes.

It is precisely "for Allah", it is precisely because they think we live amoral lifes. A jihad is a holy war against infidels. You hear them using it a lot.

You are seeing their actions from your own point of view and trying to understand them in your own terms. They think differently from you and I mean really differently.

[vidcc]

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were born of the events of 9/11; they were logical steps in a plan conceived to fight terrorism, and relieve those who hold terrorism as a viable tactic of the truth of that belief.

I would like to make absolutely clear that Iraq and saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Initially the war in Iraq had not one thing to do with terrorism.... I will say that it has now become an issue directly connected to terrorism.

[vidcc]

I would like to make absolutely clear that Iraq and saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

I would like to make it absolutely clear that connections existed between Saddam and Al Qaeda, and whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11 directly, indirectly, or not at all has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he actively supported terrorism-especially against the west, and that alone made him a superb target.

And what "connection" would that be?

[Rat Faced]

i don't believe people go through the effort to kill innocent people just because they don't like our society and i'm sick of being told that.

That you can't wrap your mind around this heretofore "unthinkable" thought is why your sickness will continue, I fear.

If you are not of the Muslim faith, you have no right to breath Allah's air-that is the pure fact of their belief.

Unfortunatly your wrong.

Trying to force YOUR beliefs or political systems onto another culture is wrong and is bound to cause trouble. You just have to look throughout history for examples.

I fail to see how the US policy of making the world safer from Terrorists by creating 3 times as many of them is in any ones interests.

What is it that Al Queda wanted J2?

They didnt want the US to change, they wanted the US out of THEIR culture.

They dont give a fuck what you do with your life, as long as you let them lead their own.


The fundamentalists beliefs are as I've described

I agree, Christian, Jewish and Muslim.. all off them.

The Fanatical Christian Right (which is huge in the USA) scares me just as much as the Fanatical Fundamentalist Muslims do.

[BigBank_Hank]

I would like to make it absolutely clear that connections existed between Saddam and Al Qaeda, and whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11 directly, indirectly, or not at all has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he actively supported terrorism-especially against the west, and that alone made him a superb target.

And what "connection" would that be?
Iraq was giving aid and comfort to terrorist. Zarqawi is Jordanian and was injured on the battlefield and went to Iraq to receive medical treatment.

[Rat Faced]

And what "connection" would that be?
Iraq was giving aid and comfort to terrorist. Zarqawi is Jordanian and was injured on the battlefield and went to Iraq to receive medical treatment.

The Al Queda in Iraq were in the kurdish areas... the parts of Iraq not controlled by Hussain, but by your "allies".

Hussain was not a religious ruler, however supported the Palestinians in order to help control his own country. He didnt actually give a fuck about them, but it appeased his people.. you know the ones now in charge. ;)

Al Queda was never big in Iraq, or supported... until the Coalition went in.

[Rat Faced]

I would like to make it absolutely clear that connections existed between Saddam and Al Qaeda, and whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11 directly, indirectly, or not at all has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he actively supported terrorism-especially against the west, and that alone made him a superb target.

And what "connection" would that be?


Palestinians.. see my post above.

He appeased the people now in charge of Iraq, to keep 'em quiet ;)

[Busyman]

I would like to make absolutely clear that Iraq and saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.

I would like to make it absolutely clear that connections existed between Saddam and Al Qaeda, and whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11 directly, indirectly, or not at all has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact he actively supported terrorism-especially against the west, and that alone made him a superb target.
Bullshit. I gave you too much credit.

You have wool outside your skin.

[vidcc]

And what "connection" would that be?
Iraq was giving aid and comfort to terrorist. Zarqawi is Jordanian and was injured on the battlefield and went to Iraq to receive medical treatment.
Well in that case what about the fact that the USA trained Osama? what about all the funds that were raised for the IRA in the US? what about Jerry Adams being invited to the US?

By "Iraq" do you mean some people in Iraq or the Iraqi government?

BTW my question was about Al qaeda connections

[bigboab]

They cannot prove that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Donald Rumsfeld has lost the receipts.:cry:

[scribblec]

To be fair....

There are no amount of concessions that can be given to these people that will satisfy them.

Their creed now is to destroy America. Plain and simple.

To also believe that their tactics will end there is ridiculous.

To believe this is just because of Iraq is also ridiculous.

What was 9/11 for?
If there was no 9/11, does one think that was the end of it?
Or because the Iraqi war simply exists, then that is the reason for all terrorist attacks?

Regardless of what Bush says, I do not believe there was an Al Qaeda cell in Iraq. I believe they are drawn there (and gained recruits there) due to us simply being there.

It's like some person that you always dreamed about fucking up but lived far, far away and then he visits your neighbor one day.


is that why london is getting bombed? :frusty:

[lynx]

The U.S. foregoes support of Israel, which allows for the destruction of Israel and those pesky Israelis;
You see, right there is where your scenario falls apart, right at the beginning.

How about "The U.S. foregoes it's incessant vetoes of U.N. resolutions, thereby giving the U.N. the ability to act. Israel is forced to deal with its Palestinian neighbours in a humanitarian manner, thereby defusing much of the hatred in the M.E."

The U.S. government is always complaining that the U.N. is toothless, yet when it tries to act the very same government vetoes its actions.

I can see no valid reason why any single permanent member of the security council should be able to veto the decisions of the others. Even if all the permanent members voted together, they barely represent a third of the world's population. The reason the permanent members won't permit it is because the security council may just start making resolutions against its permanent members, i.e. the very same reasons why the U.S. won't acknowledge the I.C.C.

As long as self-interest is allowed to take priority over the needs of humanity these problems will continue to exist.

[Rat Faced]

Unfortunatly your wrong.

Trying to force YOUR beliefs or political systems onto another culture is wrong and is bound to cause trouble. You just have to look throughout history for examples.

I fail to see how the US policy of making the world safer from Terrorists by creating 3 times as many of them is in any ones interests.

What is it that Al Queda wanted J2?

They didnt want the US to change, they wanted the US out of THEIR culture.

They dont give a fuck what you do with your life, as long as you let them lead their own.


The fundamentalists beliefs are as I've described

I agree, Christian, Jewish and Muslim.. all off them.

The Fanatical Christian Right (which is huge in the USA) scares me just as much as the Fanatical Fundamentalist Muslims do.


So:

The world should hew to a secular viewpoint?

I'm not too sure that jibes with Islam, be it fundamentalist (Al Qaeda) or mainstream specie.

Apparently you do not differentiate between fundamentalist fanaticism and mainstream religious practice.

Yes I do, i have no problem with anyones Beliefs.. until they believe they are the ONLY true way. Are you denying that the Religious Right in the USA have a lot of influence over there?

If you are, i think theres a lot of people gonna laugh at that.

It seems to me that those whose fanatic rejection of all things religious are practicing that rejection rather...religiously.

I am religious. Just not YOUR Religion.

If you choose to then think im a heathen, then you are the one that is in rejection.

Guess what, most of the world DO NOT BELIEVE that Christ was the messiah. Hell, most dont believe such a person existed, however its I have no problem with you believing such.
Okay-let us paint a picture:

The U.S. foregoes support of Israel, which allows for the destruction of Israel and those pesky Israelis; the entire mideast rejoices, and are joined in their glee by Southeast Asia and Indonesia, as well as the United Nations.

I never mentioned Israel. Israel is a done deal. It exists and now has every right to exist. They wanted the US out of the Muslim Countries (eg Saudi Arabia, Kuwait) and to be EVEN HANDED in the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
Peace reigns throughout the region; however escapist immigration to Europe and it's environs continues, because mullahs, dictators, and warlords still hold power, and democracy is a dead issue.

Democracy is a dead issue, as long as you refuse to deal with Leaders that break the Law by their own Laws. You have a guy that gave a CIA operatives details to the press being protected by the President. You also have a person that has to account for $Billions that went missing being protected by the same person.

As long as your country shows such a respect of Law, you cannot even expect to be looked at as a "Good Example". At the moment, the USA is a laughing Stock in the world as far as Democracy and Law is concerned.
The U.S. ceases importing oil from the mideast, and, absent the Israeli "problem", is no longer a presence in the region; it's withdrawal is utter and complete.

Israel has backstabbed the USA more than anyone.. it actually does the USA credit to have such unwavering support for a country that blows up your ships and sells your secrets. However as said before.. the issue is treating both sides equally.. not abandoning Israel.
Immigration to the U.K. and continental Europe increases drastically; the U.S. has closed it's borders to all incoming Semitic peoples.

Good. Despite what the Conservatives try and say, we will have a problem with TOO FEW people here very soon. Its good to hear i'll still have a pension with all these extra workers arriving ;)
China and Russia take an increased interest in the region; an open field awaits!

China and Russia accept no immigrants from the region, and reinforce their border security, increasing tension between them.

Terrorism, if and when it occurs, takes place only in Europe, as neither the Chinese nor the Russians will abide it, and tensions must be released, correct?

Russia and China begin the process of deciding which of them will prevail in the imminent contest for control of mideast oil.






Sounds lovely; I can't wait to see the movie. :dry:

Thats almost an admission that its about US control of oil..

Careful J2, you'll be put on one of your governments "No Fly" lists...

I mean, it doesnt take much to get on these lists of potential US unfriendlies, as your own ex-diplomats are discovering.

And, as with many things in the USA these days, your not even Guilty until proven Innocent in these lists.

Even if you PROVE that it was an error.. your name remains on the lists.

Justice? Freedom?

Make me laugh some more ;)

[Rat Faced]

The U.S. foregoes support of Israel, which allows for the destruction of Israel and those pesky Israelis;
You see, right there is where your scenario falls apart, right at the beginning.

How about "The U.S. foregoes it's incessant vetoes of U.N. resolutions, thereby giving the U.N. the ability to act. Israel is forced to deal with its Palestinian neighbours in a humanitarian manner, thereby defusing much of the hatred in the M.E."

The U.S. government is always complaining that the U.N. is toothless, yet when it tries to act the very same government vetoes its actions.

I can see no valid reason why any single permanent member of the security council should be able to veto the decisions of the others. Even if all the permanent members voted together, they barely represent a third of the world's population. The reason the permanent members won't permit it is because the security council may just start making resolutions against its permanent members, i.e. the very same reasons why the U.S. won't acknowledge the I.C.C.

As long as self-interest is allowed to take priority over the needs of humanity these problems will continue to exist.

OMFG...

I'm in agreement with a Tory :ohmy:

:shutup:

[GepperRankins]

The U.S. foregoes support of Israel, which allows for the destruction of Israel and those pesky Israelis;
You see, right there is where your scenario falls apart, right at the beginning.

How about "The U.S. foregoes it's incessant vetoes of U.N. resolutions, thereby giving the U.N. the ability to act. Israel is forced to deal with its Palestinian neighbours in a humanitarian manner, thereby defusing much of the hatred in the M.E."

The U.S. government is always complaining that the U.N. is toothless, yet when it tries to act the very same government vetoes its actions.

I can see no valid reason why any single permanent member of the security council should be able to veto the decisions of the others. Even if all the permanent members voted together, they barely represent a third of the world's population. The reason the permanent members won't permit it is because the security council may just start making resolutions against its permanent members, i.e. the very same reasons why the U.S. won't acknowledge the I.C.C.

As long as self-interest is allowed to take priority over the needs of humanity these problems will continue to exist.
that and there would be no al-qaida terrorism in europe if america got out of the middle easts business. the terrorist attacks in europe have been to try and convince us to stop supporting america.

[brotherdoobie]

"The main dangers in this life are the people who want to change everything or nothing." Lady Nancy Astor

Peace bd

[Rat Faced]

"The history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal."

Mark Twain


Peace rf

[JPaul]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it, Santayana.

[JPaul]

The only thing needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing, Edmund Burke.

[Rat Faced]

Now J2,

You know that when the US breaks someone elses toys, they also make that someone else pay for replacing said toys, with US parts and labour.. with a few Billions in the pockets of the ones that the US puts in charge of overseeing said replacement... :lol:

[JPaul]

Now J2,

You know that when the US breaks someone elses toys, they also make that someone else pay for replacing said toys, with US parts and labour.. with a few Billions in the pockets of the ones that the US puts in charge of overseeing said replacement... :lol:
Fortunately the US supplies the money as well, so everyone is happy.

[GepperRankins]

nice quotes JP.

i'm sure they're saying the same things.

[Fake Shemp]

Walking (staggering really) home Friday night we noticed a cop car parked up and two policemen were watching the train station I live next to. I live in the south west so quite a ways from Thursdays tragic events, I wonder if the police are doing this all over the country right now?

[GepperRankins]

Walking (staggering really) home Friday night we noticed a cop car parked up and two policemen were watching the train station I live next to. I live in the south west so quite a ways from Thursdays tragic events, I wonder if the police are doing this all over the country right now?
same at ponty bus station. in west yorkshire

[brotherdoobie]

"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change."
-Thich Nhat Hanh

Peace bd

[Rat Faced]

"To him in whom love dwells, the whole world is but one family."

Buddha

[bigboab]

Be careful of stones that you throw. That's triple glazing I have just installed.

Sum Twat

[Rat Faced]

"My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders."

Mark Twain

[Snee]

same at ponty bus station. in west yorkshire

-GepperRankins

[manker]

I've been in the Air Force for a year.

Cpt_Asda

[bigboab]

I've been in the Air Force for a year.

Cpt_Asda

Should that not be Captain Walmart?

[manker]

Hoi! Boab!

This isn't the lounge, it's the pointless quotes thread in t'Drawing Room.

Please endeavour to remain on-topic :D

[DanB]

I'm sorry Madam but whatever you are smoking isn't allowed in this station

- ticket collector at Epsom station

[Busyman]

Walk twice around the barnyard when the tongue leaves the dog's nuts.

-Busyman

The stepdaughter jumpeth two feet when the baboon strikes three underground.

-Busyman

[JPaul]

I claim no omniscience - j2k4

I grant your claim - JPaul

[3RA1N1AC]

I claim no omniscience, but I reckon that if Mr. Twain were posting in this thread, you would be astounded at his opinions on the matters at hand.
wouldn't we all be astounded. not only because of the uniqueness and unpredictability of his views, but also because he'd be 170 years old. :P

[ziggyjuarez]

Ok reading the last few replys i have no clue what you humans are doing.But i thought i would say something.I hope you guys arnt hatefull twards muslims.Here in Emerania muslems are not getting stoned but they arnt really qite seen as Emeranians.A great view from a muslims side is a show called 30Days on FX.
Name changes made for consilient...

[brotherdoobie]

Hoi! Boab!

This isn't the lounge, it's the pointless quotes thread in t'Drawing Room.

Please endeavour to remain on-topic :D

Meh, pointless...or inane enough to have rendered astute...the pointless?

Peace bd

[manker]

Just pointless, plain and simple.

What confusing use of the sacred ellipsis.

[brotherdoobie]

Just pointless, plain and simple.

What confusing use of the sacred ellipsis.

Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburger - Abbie Hoffman

I don't feel that quotes are pointless. I believe that by using quotes, one
can sum up a situation in a few words. (especially...when one is tired.)

However, I respect the earnest gravity of the Drawling Room and the situation at hand, and will limit my use of the inane to The Lounge.

Levity is overrated anyway.

Peace bd

[manker]

I didn't say that all quotes are pointless. Merely the ones posted so far in this thread.

In fact, I've just thought of an apt one:

You say it best, when you say nothing at all -- Boyzone (or maybe Withcheese).

;)

[JPaul]

I didn't say that all quotes are pointless. Merely the ones posted so far in this thread.

In fact, I've just thought of an apt one:

You say it best, when you say nothing at all -- Boyzone (or maybe Withcheese).

;)
Hoi, my quotes are pure gold, rod boy.

[bigboab]

£5,000 plus parts and labour. Sorry but that is the best I can quote.:blink:

[Rat Faced]

"My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders."

Mark Twain

One must first have knowledge of that which begs one's loyalty; it helps also to know Loyalty, properly defined.

Mark Twain was possessed of a greater understanding of his country than most people today; he'd actually read the founding documents once or twice.

The institutions and office-holders have not, for the most part, changed.

BTW-

I claim no omniscience, but I reckon that if Mr. Twain were posting in this thread, you would be astounded at his opinions on the matters at hand.

Ah, Kev mate.. you knew this was aimed directly at yourself and Hank :P

In my explanations to those that dont know what i mean...

If one does not criticise those in power when its known they are breaking the laws/rules, just because they belong to the party that you support... that is being Loyal to your Political Party, not your country.

It is the responsibility of those loyal to their country to bring all transgressors to account, not just those politically opposed to them.

For example:

I hear many grumblings about "Food for Oil", but none about many more missing Billions in a much smaller space of time from a known personality...and explanations are not sought.

OR

A member of the administration leaks the personal details of a CIA operative, and is not criticised at all, despite this leak being illegal and the type of leak would be against ANY countries interest.

HOWEVER... the opposition gets a blow job, and its all hell breaks loose..

This is loyalty to a PARTY, not a COUNTRY.

I find myself thinking those that do raise hell about these things in the USA, and did against Clinton too... to be the real US patriots. :P

[bigboab]

One must first have knowledge of that which begs one's loyalty; it helps also to know Loyalty, properly defined.

Mark Twain was possessed of a greater understanding of his country than most people today; he'd actually read the founding documents once or twice.

The institutions and office-holders have not, for the most part, changed.

BTW-

I claim no omniscience, but I reckon that if Mr. Twain were posting in this thread, you would be astounded at his opinions on the matters at hand.

Ah, Kev mate.. you knew this was aimed directly at yourself and Hank :P

In my explanations to those that dont know what i mean...

If one does not criticise those in power when its known they are breaking the laws/rules, just because they belong to the party that you support... that is being Loyal to your Political Party, not your country.

It is the responsibility of those loyal to their country to bring all transgressors to account, not just those politically opposed to them.

For example:

I hear many grumblings about "Food for Oil", but none about many more missing Billions in a much smaller space of time from a known personality...and explanations are not sought.

OR

A member of the administration leaks the personal details of a CIA operative, and is not criticised at all, despite this leak being illegal and the type of leak would be against ANY countries interest.

HOWEVER... the opposition gets a blow job, and its all hell breaks loose..

This is loyalty to a PARTY, not a COUNTRY.

I find myself thinking those that do raise hell about these things in the USA, and did against Clinton too... to be the real US patriots. :P

RF! You give the the 'Right To Bear Arms' lobby a reason for existence.:rolleyes:

[Snee]

Why would anyone want a pair of bear arms?

And who's thinking of the bears?


That's what I want to know :dry:

[bigboab]

Why would anyone want a pair of bear arms?

And who's thinking of the bears?


That's what I want to know :dry:

:lol:

Is that not the reason why they go out and shoot them? Or anything else that moves.:( They must get burnt in this hot weather.:cry:

[bigboab]

I dont think that any country can stand up to close scrutiny of it finances and those that control them. Sadly lying and corruption are essential in order to succeed in the political arena. The use of words like excoriate early on a Monday morning I also find deplorable.:(

[BigBank_Hank]

I've brought this up before, many times-with the limited time I have for this board, and the overwhelming time required to entertain all the negative commentary about the U.S., Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bremer, Rice, and wharever else you people come up with, there is precious little time to devote exclusively to the negative subjects upon which you'd prefer.

It is not that I'm blind; I am not, it's just that coming here is, most of the time, a fire-fighting exercise-nobody here ever says anything positive about the U.S., it is just not done.

If the commentary were anything but one-sided, there might be time for me to discuss the negatives in-depth, but I have a job and a rather extensive honey-do list, along with trying to squeeze in anything else that I might want to do.
I share the same sentiment, besides the honey do list.

There is so much negativity towards the President and every little thing that the administration does that I don’t have the time or the energy defend every crack pot accusation. During the lead up to the election I didn’t mind because I thought that it was an important time. But anything that Bush does now the Democrats take the opposite side and criticize Bush.

This board is entertainment and I sure as hell don’t feel like fighting tooth and nail every single time that I log on.

[vidcc]

After all, it is not as if this board is lacking the numbers to properly excoriate the U.S. for it's shortcomings; even amongst it's U.S. contingent, I can count the pro-U.S. cohort on one hand.

What do you count as domestically being "pro-U.S."? I have seen the word "patriotic" re-defined in recent years.
I consider myself pro-U.S. I love this country, I love the people (but not all of them) and I think we do many things better than other nations. This does not mean I think we do ALL things better. Some nations do many things better than we do.

People on message boards tend to talk about things that they dislike more than things they like. It doesn't make them anti (insert nation here), it makes them anti that particular "thing" (edit: although I do agree some people are just anti US)

When the Tsunami came the US excelled in humanitarian aid...this aspect of foreign policy I agree with.... there are other aspects I disagree with and I can see where we create problems for ourselves because of these parts. It is not anti-U.S. to believe in a different approach and changes cannot be made if one keeps quiet when one disagrees.

You wouldn't run your company the way our country is run and if you had shares in a company you would be vocal at the company meetings if you didn't agree with how the board was running your investment....that doesn't make you anti-that company.

[vidcc]

But anything that Bush does now the Democrats take the opposite side and criticize Bush.
I can't recollect much support from the right for anything Clinton did ;)

What is the point of a multi party system if there is no opposition?

[Rat Faced]

Hey, i've gave credit where its due :P

Some of the States are more than very good on environmental issues for example.

However, i would like to see you state that you agree when you do.. even if it is against a particular policy/situation. To not do so, gives the impression that you are a republican 1st, an American 2nd..

A little like what Hank just implied he is with his post.. (however i dont think he realises it reads that way ;) )

Hank, you either miss the point or are deliberatly misunderstanding...

Are you saying you agree that the missing Billions from Iraq should be investigated, and that the person that released the CIA agents details should be prosecuted... or are you saying its "All a Democrat accusation that should be ignored"..


J2, quite clearly stated that he was bothered by the shoddy accounting.. which is the thing i was trying to discover.

You just say: "anything that Bush does now the Democrats take the opposite side "...

In this particualr case it isnt the Democrats as much as the rest of the world btw...

[Busyman]

I've brought this up before, many times-with the limited time I have for this board, and the overwhelming time required to entertain all the negative commentary about the U.S., Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bremer, Rice, and wharever else you people come up with, there is precious little time to devote exclusively to the negative subjects upon which you'd prefer.

It is not that I'm blind; I am not, it's just that coming here is, most of the time, a fire-fighting exercise-nobody here ever says anything positive about the U.S., it is just not done.

If the commentary were anything but one-sided, there might be time for me to discuss the negatives in-depth, but I have a job and a rather extensive honey-do list, along with trying to squeeze in anything else that I might want to do.
I share the same sentiment, besides the honey do list.

There is so much negativity towards the President and every little thing that the administration does that I don’t have the time or the energy defend every crack pot accusation. During the lead up to the election I didn’t mind because I thought that it was an important time. But anything that Bush does now the Democrats take the opposite side and criticize Bush.

This board is entertainment and I sure as hell don’t feel like fighting tooth and nail every single time that I log on.
Have you ever thought that maybe it's because Bush does many things ass-backward? :1eye:

Even when there was an honest-to-goodness thread about his accomplishments as President there were crickets chirping and tumbleweed blowing about.

No one cried foul of Afghanistan but did on Iraq. Why do you think that is?
It ain't rocket science.

Bush doesn't even share some of the more conservative ideals that I liked such as small government.

He's a shit liberal as well as a shit conservative. :snooty: .....and that's pretty fucking bad.

Oh but he's a Christian. :ph34r:

[BigBank_Hank]

Hank, you either miss the point or are deliberatly misunderstanding...
Did you read what I said? Just in case you missed it:

This board is entertainment and I sure as hell don’t feel like fighting tooth and nail every single time that I log on.
I come on hear to read and to enjoy the time I spend while on the board. I don’t want to spend every free second that I have criticizing or defending ever little thing the government does like you.

Just because I didn’t post anything about Bremmer doesn’t automatically mean that I support him. Hell I don’t even know the accusations, which is why I didn’t post anything about it.

Rat you really need a hobby.

[Busyman]

Rat,

I live by my motto "most people are idiutz, don't be one of them."

Most people of the world are like sheep or just evil fucks. They are the father from Pet Sematary (where his son and wife were zombified and he was stupid enough to ask for a hug) or they make unfair decisions for selfish reasons.

I am guilty in the "unfair decisions" department. :(

[vidcc]

Just because I didn’t post anything about Bremmer doesn’t automatically mean that I support him. Hell I don’t even know the accusations, which is why I didn’t post anything about it.
This troubles me because I feel that one huge problem we have is that people just don't know or don't want to know. So they only watch a certain news station or listen to certain radio stations or read certain newspapers/web sites.

Of course this goes for both "sides"


@ All

Listening to the extremely right wing Rush Limbaugh this morning (I find extremists hilarious in their rants) It's nice to know that he appreciates the British standing with the US on Iraq... he appreciated it so much he called the British cowards "because they don't stand up to terrorists and don't have a patriot act such as the USA has"...... Way to say thanks Rush

[Rat Faced]

"because they don't stand up to terrorists and don't have a patriot act such as the USA has"

@ Rush..

Its because we prefer to have our freedoms thanks.

You go ahead and make your police state, i hope it bites you in the ass, like its already started biting your ex-diplomats and congressmen.

[JPaul]

We will stand up to terrorists because that is what we do. We will do it within our legal framework, not someone else's.

We have been doing it for decades, when there were constant news reports of terrorist bombs, or shootings, or whatever sort of attrocity. I remember when I was younger there seemed to be a report every night on some sort of IRA or UDA attack.

We do not do it to stand side by side with anyone. We do it because it is the right way to deal with these things. Well done to the people of London for going back about your business, by getting on with your life.

We accept that we will be attacked again, however that was a way of life for a long time. We will trust our Police to protect us as best they can and to make every effort possible to catch those who did it.

That is the cost of our freedom, it is a price we are willing to pay.

[vidcc]

Rat.

I only touched on his comments..... He ranted about how the British are now "begging the US to help them with intelligence".... He is a right wing idol and one of the things I consider to be "bad" about certain factions of US beliefs.

[JPaul]

@RF

Jinx again, this is getting to be a habit.

Mine are better than your tho' :P

[vidcc]

We will stand up to terrorists because that is what we do. We will do it within our legal framework, not someone else's.

We have been doing it for decades, when there were constant news reports of terrorist bombs, or shootings, or whatever sort of attrocity. I remember when I was younger there seemed to be a report every night on some sort of IRA or UDA attack.

We do not do it to stand side by side with anyone. We do it because it is the right way to deal with these things. Well done to the people of London for going back about your business, by getting on with your life.

We accept that we will be attacked again, however that was a way of life for a long time. We will trust our Police to protect us as best they can and to make every effort possible to catch those who did it.

That is the cost of our freedom, it is a price we are willing to pay.


Very well said

[JPaul]

We will stand up to terrorists because that is what we do. We will do it within our legal framework, not someone else's.

We have been doing it for decades, when there were constant news reports of terrorist bombs, or shootings, or whatever sort of attrocity. I remember when I was younger there seemed to be a report every night on some sort of IRA or UDA attack.

We do not do it to stand side by side with anyone. We do it because it is the right way to deal with these things. Well done to the people of London for going back about your business, by getting on with your life.

We accept that we will be attacked again, however that was a way of life for a long time. We will trust our Police to protect us as best they can and to make every effort possible to catch those who did it.

That is the cost of our freedom, it is a price we are willing to pay.


Very well said

;)

[Rat Faced]

I dont think we are begging the US for intelligence, as i think its believed they're home grown atm... which is why they gave the 3000 figure for suspected sympathisers in the UK due to Iraq..

@ JPaul..

Not better, just more diplomatic :P

[JPaul]

@ JPaul..

Not better, just more diplomatic :P
I'm famous for it :naughty:

[Busyman]

Just because I didn’t post anything about Bremmer doesn’t automatically mean that I support him. Hell I don’t even know the accusations, which is why I didn’t post anything about it.
This troubles me because I feel that one huge problem we have is that people just don't know or don't want to know. So they only watch a certain news station or listen to certain radio stations or read certain newspapers/web sites.

Of course this goes for both "sides"


@ All

Listening to the extremely right wing Rush Limbaugh this morning (I find extremists hilarious in their rants) It's nice to know that he appreciates the British standing with the US on Iraq... he appreciated it so much he called the British cowards "because they don't stand up to terrorists and don't have a patriot act such as the USA has"...... Way to say thanks Rush
It is sometimes painful to believe that Rush has a willing audience that actually agrees with him.

They are sheep. Rush is an evil sheep.

The Patriot Act is purely unconstitutional. Chalk another thing up for the Bush administration. :dry:

[*goddess*]

:) Just wanted to say hats off to the poms for the mass attendance at the anniversary celebration in London Yesterday? our time. It must have been awful to go anywhere near where the slaughter took place but many, many did.

I also have to give kudos to the queen, I generally think the monarchs are a bit of a waste of space and much money, but to defiantly ride thru the streets with no obvious extra security seemed like a big 'up yours' to the animals that attacked England.

[Busyman]

The Patriot Act is purely unconstitutional. Chalk another thing up for the Bush administration. :dry:

Seems to have had some effect, nonetheless (or has it?)...it also seems that, since the U.S. is still "Leader of the Pack", Al Qaeda (or whatever offshoot is responsible) would rather be smiting the the States than the U.K., wouldn't they?

Or so reason would dictate.

Maybe we should drop the entire Patriot Act, apart from the efforts to improve intelligence, and have a default policy of overt profiling and zero immigration, which would also be very effective, and much simpler, yes?

It is precisely for reasons of having to steer clear of any semblance of "unfairness" or "bias" or offense that the Patriot Act is such a cumbersome piece-of-shit....it's like the tax code-it should fit on a 3x5 card and be able to be understood even by those who wear pointy hats and stand in corners.
Good man!!! ;)

I'm sorry but overt profiling is going to happen.

I hate when airport security pulls an old white lady out of the line but leaves the Arab fella JUST to appear fair. Get real.

We need to tighten our borders, profile as needed without harassment (it's part of INTELLIGENCE ffs), and give due process...especially to American citizens, Muslim or not. I was Muslim before and even then was a true patriot of this country. If I was wisked away for months on suspicion I would probably really hurt someone.

Whatever happened to tailing somoene to actually get useful information?

When is the Patriot Act set to expire btw? I know Bush wants to extend it.

We don't have to have zero immigration, but we could at least tighten it.

[GepperRankins]

The Patriot Act is purely unconstitutional. Chalk another thing up for the Bush administration. :dry:

Seems to have had some effect, nonetheless (or has it?)...it also seems that, since the U.S. is still "Leader of the Pack", Al Qaeda (or whatever offshoot is responsible) would rather be smiting the the States than the U.K., wouldn't they?

Or so reason would dictate.

Maybe we should drop the entire Patriot Act, apart from the efforts to improve intelligence, and have a default policy of overt profiling and zero immigration, which would also be very effective, and much simpler, yes?

It is precisely for reasons of having to steer clear of any semblance of "unfairness" or "bias" or offense that the Patriot Act is such a cumbersome piece-of-shit....it's like the tax code-it should fit on a 3x5 card and be able to be understood even by those who wear pointy hats and stand in corners.
the madrid and london bombings are against america in a way. they're trying to single you out. i reckon that it would be more effective in the long run. thinking of the long run like that is kind of worrying :ermm:

[Busyman]

We don't have to have zero immigration, but we could at least tighten it.

I uttered a dirty word a few years back, and was called a Nazi for my trouble, but I will use it again to illustrate more clearly the point I tried to make then:

Immigration without assimilation will never work, period.

The people who come here should come here to join us, not just to collect benefits by virtue of their proximity.

There has to be more to it than that.
An official language of English is a start. :rolleyes:

Our country is used like Tampax. Much of our money leaves the country.

A Spanish fella in my crew sent money regularly to Guatemala. He then took a buyout at 27 years (3 yrs. shy of retirement), sold his house and moved back there.

In Langley Park, MD on payday, the Western Union is filled with Hispanics.
Call center (like tech support) for various companies are routinely using Indian companies.
.........and our own labor costs are too high.

I recently bought a stone top table from Giant (grocery store) for $100. The matching bitro table, $60.....made in China.

[vidcc]

An official language of English is a start. :rolleyes:

Do you think the individual states would accept it if the feds decided to make English the official language or do you think there would be the "state rights" argument ?

[Busyman]

An official language of English is a start. :rolleyes:

Do you think the individual states would accept it if the feds decided to make English the official language or do you think there would be the "state rights" argument ?
Yes

[vidcc]

Do you think the individual states would accept it if the feds decided to make English the official language or do you think there would be the "state rights" argument ?
Yes
You are the Scott McClellan of the board :rolleyes:

[lynx]

Latest news, 1 arrest made.
4 suspects thought to have died with the bombs.

[manker]

Latest news, 1 arrest made.
4 suspects thought to have died with the bombs.All UK born and hailing from from West Yorks.

The four suspects.

[vidcc]

Latest news, 1 arrest made.
4 suspects thought to have died with the bombs.All UK born and hailing from from West Yorks.

The four suspects.

Goddammit we need to invade Syria because of this :dry:

[Rat Faced]

And we didnt have to level the whole of Leeds to make the arrest... :ph34r:

[bigboab]

They would've been safer staying in London.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/bigboab/london.jpg

[Rat Faced]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned Luton Station being closed all today, and the main Line going through Luton.

[bigboab]

All UK born and hailing from from West Yorks.

The four suspects.

Goddammit we need to invade Syria because of this :dry:

You mean we have to invade Yorkshire.:(
At least this latest news that it was caused by four suicide bombers reduces the number of innocent people killed by 4.

[vidcc]

You mean we have to invade Yorkshire.:(

Why? does it have oil :rolleyes:

[bigboab]

You mean we have to invade Yorkshire.:(

Why? does it have oil :rolleyes:Yes there many filling stations on the A1 and other Motorways in the area. Does that count?

[Rat Faced]

You mean we have to invade Yorkshire.:(

Why? does it have oil :rolleyes:

No... they still use Lard.

[vidcc]

I was quite impressed at how modern Yorkshire has become, it was on the news today and it was in colour.

[bigboab]

I was quite impressed at how modern Yorkshire has become, it was on the news today and it was in colour.

It was in black and white when I was younger. Come to think of it. Everywhere was black and white when I was younger.

[Afronaut]

Just saw the news (http://www.yle.fi/yle24/videosali/index.php?a=9&t=1&q=1)(from Finland but in English).

Put the Tinfoil hats and bear with me for a sec:
There was mention about 3 bombers blew themselves deliberetly.
There's a lot of evidence about and im thinking why?

Of course, the police and the forces are good at their work but what if
the evidence suppose to be there?

Only time will tell how things turn up thought.

I hope they catch some ppl behind this horrible bombing and get more info.

52 dead and 700 injured
:(

[vidcc]

Commentators here are now almost "up in arms" because the BBC is calling the perpetrators "bombers" and not "terrorists"

[JPaul]

Goddammit we need to invade Syria because of this :dry:


At least this latest news that it was caused by four suicide bombers reduces the number of innocent people killed by 4.
Thanks for that, what a seriously brilliant way of looking at this.

[JPaul]

Commentators here are now almost "up in arms" because the BBC is calling the perpetrators "bombers" and not "terrorists"
I agree with the BBC, only I call them murderers.

To call them terrorists (nowadays) has the connotation of someone with a cause, almost giving a twisted mitigation to their actions.

They are evil indiscriminate murderers, nothing more than that.