Harry Potter...A new angle

[vidcc]

There have been many what I would call silly attacks on the Harry Potter book series by "extreme" religious groups. Some have even had book burning events.

But a new approach has risen to try to get the books out of schools and school libraries here in the USA.

They are arguing that the books accurately depict witchcraft and wiccan religions and as both have been granted recognised religious status in the US (and are tax exempt) then the Harry Potter books should be banned because they promote religion.


Do you think this has any "meat" to it?

[Afronaut]

In America, there's meat everywhere, money to make, opportunity.
And Profits.
:lol:

I dont think the author is into witchcraft/hellish-rituals, I dont think she has teh knowhow.
I believe she makes things up as she writes. Like fantasy or so.
Cant back that up with paperwork but I dont think some religion/hubbabubba/whatever
should be too scared about it.
But there's also some Cults about which could take stuff very seriously.

Been reading about $cientology (http://www.xenu.net./) a lot lately, very scary stuff.
Have to "catch up" a little what other bigger Cults there is on about.
:D

As In the late 1940s, pulp writer L. Ron Hubbard declared:


"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

What if J.K. Rowling (http://www.jkrowling.com/) decides to make a "religion" out of Harry Potter?

;)

[Smith]

I think these bible humpers have to much time on there hands.

[peat moss]

Did n't the new Pope have a sermon on the evils of Harry ? About the twisting of family morals ?

[bigboab]

There have been many what I would call silly attacks on the Harry Potter book series by "extreme" religious groups. Some have even had book burning events.

But a new approach has risen to try to get the books out of schools and school libraries here in the USA.

They are arguing that the books accurately depict witchcraft and wiccan religions and as both have been granted recognised religious status in the US (and are tax exempt) then the Harry Potter books should be banned because they promote religion.


Do you think this has any "meat" to it?

Are you calling the Pope a member of an extreme religious group?:)

[tracydani]

They are arguing that the books accurately depict witchcraft


If this is true, then they had better hurry with the rated R (or perhaps xxx) movie versions because I have a few spells I would like to learn. :lol:

I really hope we do not continue in this direction. The America I return to when I finally go back to the states is going to be a whole other country from the one I remember :(

TD

[Biggles]

Did n't the new Pope have a sermon on the evils of Harry ? About the twisting of family morals ?

I think some author who has a bee in her bonnet about Harry Potter wrote to the Pope a few times about the books (and her book criticising the Potter books). He replied to her letters and I believe he told her she was right to highlight her concerns. It was her and not he that made the comments public and it is difficult to tell how in context they were (as I said, she has a bee in her bonnet).

Somehow, I don't think the Catholic Church is about to embark on a book burning escapade .

Vidcc, are US school libraries not allowed to stock any books at all dealing with religious themes? It seems to me that if that is the case then an awful lot of classic literature will get the heave ho ... or is this some madness that has not been thought through?

[Busyman]

Did n't the new Pope have a sermon on the evils of Harry ? About the twisting of family morals ?
Then the Pope is full of shit. :dry:

People make a big stink when something is making alot of money in a different medium than television.

They ignore television entirely.

Anyone seen The Worst Witch? What about the host of.........tons on TV depictions of witchcraft?

[Biggles]

Did n't the new Pope have a sermon on the evils of Harry ? About the twisting of family morals ?
Then the Pope is full of shit. :dry:

People make a big stink when something is making alot of money in a different medium than television.

They ignore television entirely.

Anyone seen The Worst Witch? What about the host of.........tons on TV depictions of witchcraft?


Fair point!

What about the new Bewitched movie?

[lynx]

There have been many what I would call silly attacks on the Harry Potter book series by "extreme" religious groups. Some have even had book burning events.

But a new approach has risen to try to get the books out of schools and school libraries here in the USA.

They are arguing that the books accurately depict witchcraft and wiccan religions and as both have been granted recognised religious status in the US (and are tax exempt) then the Harry Potter books should be banned because they promote religion.


Do you think this has any "meat" to it?

Are you calling the Pope a member of an extreme religious group?:)
Yes. :ph34r:

[Rat Faced]

There have been many what I would call silly attacks on the Harry Potter book series by "extreme" religious groups. Some have even had book burning events.

But a new approach has risen to try to get the books out of schools and school libraries here in the USA.

They are arguing that the books accurately depict witchcraft and wiccan religions and as both have been granted recognised religious status in the US (and are tax exempt) then the Harry Potter books should be banned because they promote religion.


Do you think this has any "meat" to it?

Is the Bible not allowed in US schools?

As to Harry Potter being wiccan, can someone point me in the way of that school?

I seem to have missed something of my religious education :unsure:

[Peerzy]

All the violence, sex, drugs and George Bush on tv and people are worried about a book about a boy wizard which is fictional :huh:

[Busyman]

All the violence, sex, drugs and George Bush on tv and people are worried about a book about a boy wizard which is fictional :huh:
George Bush on TV? Fuck are you talking about?

[vidcc]

Vidcc, are US school libraries not allowed to stock any books at all dealing with religious themes? It seems to me that if that is the case then an awful lot of classic literature will get the heave ho ... or is this some madness that has not been thought through?

I don't know what exactly the standard is, where the line is drawn but the argument used is that if the Bible is not allowed then a book that portrays or pushes witchcraft should not be allowed.

Below is part of the transcript of the show I got the subject from
(scarbourough country)


SCARBOROUGH: Do you think—some are out there saying this book should be banned, it should be burned. Are you among those?

MATRISCIANA: No

I think what I take issue with is, it is a book on a very accurate portrayal of witchcraft. Warner Brothers said of movie number one that it was accurate portrayal of witchcraft. And, certainly, the lessons that are taught in Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry are all about the occult, paganism, a lot of things that are taught and practiced by witches.

And we have got to remember that, in 1986, the Supreme Court did make witchcraft a legal religion in the United States. It is an IRS tax-exempt religion.

STEVE ZEITCHIK, “PUBLISHERS WEEKLY”: Right.

MATRISCIANA: There are Wiccan chaplains in the military, so it very definitely is a bona fide religion. And so for this now to be...

SCARBOROUGH: And you are just saying that these books push the religion.

Steve, let me ask you, do you think “Harry Potter” pushes the occult? Do you think it pushes witchcraft on unsuspecting 6-year-old, 7-year-old, 8-year-old kids?

ZEITCHIK: Well, a couple of things.

First of all, I don't think it does that.

I mean, I think, Caryl, you are totally right to say that there's accurate portrayal here, but it's certainly not of witchcraft, as much as it as accurate portrayal childhood. I mean, people steal and lie and thieve in childhood, as they do in real life. And to the degree that this book reflects any kind of untoward or vulgar activity, as you put it, it's merely reflecting the ambiguity of the world as we know it.

And I think that's probably why so many people relate to it. So, no, I don't think it promotes witchcraft at all.

MATRISCIANA: Well...

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Caryl, I have got a 14-year-old boy that is going to want to see the next movie that comes out. I took him to—I guess he was 10 when the first one came out. Am I being irresponsible as a parent?

MATRISCIANA: No.

I think the issue, what I take issue with is that this book very accurately portrays obviously a religion. And it is being read aloud in our classrooms across America, when other religious books have been banned from the classroom.

SCARBOROUGH: OK.

MATRISCIANA: So that's my issue and that is my concern.

SCARBOROUGH: So, you are saying you can't read the Bible, which promotes Christianity, but you can read “Harry Potter,” which you say pushes witchcraft?

MATRISCIANA: Well, it's a very, very accurate portrayal of witchcraft. It also encourages the children to go into Wiccan Web sites in the classroom. The teaching aids that come along with it do encourage children to learn more about witchcraft.

And, certainly, if they are allowed to do that, in all fairness, on all religions, then let's have that in the classroom. But are all religious...

SCARBOROUGH: Well, Steve—what do you say to that, Steve? If this book promotes the occult, if it promotes witchcraft, then why are we letting our kids read it in school?
source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822/) Reading the transcript it appears she is either for removing Harry potter from schools or allowing the bible...I think she would prefer the latter

[vidcc]

Is the Bible not allowed in US schools?



Not in State schools... separation of church and state... government shall not establish a religion....

[Rat Faced]

Seperation of Church and State applies here too, however the Bible and Koran etc are available in school libraries.

Dont know about now, but we were given a copy of the Bible or whatever other religious book we wished, from whatever religion, when we started secondary school.

You have to be able to look at the different Religions in order to teach Religious Education, something thats is taught in the UK.

Although its mainly so you dont do daft things like have Pork if you invite a Jew to dinner etc, not pushing a particular religion.

[Peerzy]

All the violence, sex, drugs and George Bush on tv and people are worried about a book about a boy wizard which is fictional :huh:
George Bush on TV? Fuck are you talking about?

As in the shambles that is the US government.

[vidcc]

@ Rat

Obviously you know more about the Wiccan religion than I do, however do you think that Harry Potter could be classed as a religious book as is being implied?

I confess to not having read a Harry Potter book...Had to sit through one of the movies though.

[Busyman]

George Bush on TV? Fuck are you talking about?

As in the shambles that is the US government.
Even if it is in shambles it has shit to do with this thread, troller. :huh:

[Busyman]

Is the Bible not allowed in US schools?



Not in State schools... separation of church and state... government shall not establish a religion....
There are some areas where they can't teach evolution unless creationism is taught. That's put's the Bible in state schools. :(

[Rat Faced]

@ Rat

Obviously you know more about the Wiccan religion than I do, however do you think that Harry Potter could be classed as a religious book as is being implied?

I confess to not having read a Harry Potter book...Had to sit through one of the movies though.

Never read one, but seen the 1st 2 movies..

In those 2 movies there was more Christian than wiccan, in that there was zero wiccan content, but one of Harry's family was wearing a crucifix i think ;)

[bigboab]

I think they should go back to burning witches.:ph34r: It would never happen because the Newcastle 'Broon' Brewery have a large say in politics.:rolleyes:

[Peerzy]

As in the shambles that is the US government.
Even if it is in shambles it has shit to do with this thread, troller. :huh:


Read the context i first put it in.

With so much violence, sex, drugs and George Bush (read bad idiotic politics) on TV why are people worried about a book like Harry Potter.

[GepperRankins]

as long as they ban all other religious books too :01:

[sArA]

Not in State schools... separation of church and state... government shall not establish a religion....
There are some areas where they can't teach evolution unless creationism is taught. That's put's the Bible in state schools. :(


bonkers!!! :blink:

It amazes and amuses me to think that they oblige educationists to teach science and fantasy in the same context!

[Rat Faced]

There are some areas where they can't teach evolution unless creationism is taught. That's put's the Bible in state schools. :(


bonkers!!! :blink:

It amazes and amuses me to think that they oblige educationists to teach science and fantasy in the same context!

In the case above, i think its only fair that wiccans etc also have a fair crack of the whip.

Maybe we should use the same methods in the same states to teach witchcraft :shifty:

[vidcc]

Not in State schools... separation of church and state... government shall not establish a religion....
There are some areas where they can't teach evolution unless creationism is taught. That's put's the Bible in state schools. :(
Of course there will be a challenge in the supreme court that should stop the practice if it is occurring.

Edit: unless i missed it and it got through :unsure:

Give it 2 more resignations on the court and it will :dry:

[Rat Faced]

There are some areas where they can't teach evolution unless creationism is taught. That's put's the Bible in state schools. :(
Of course there will be a challenge in the supreme court that should stop the practice if it is occurring.

Edit: unless i missed it and it got through :unsure:

Give it 2 more resignations on the court and it will :dry:

I prefer my idea.

I'm sure they'd withdraw the demand of its being taught at all, if all religions were given the same status. :ph34r:

[vidcc]

I'm sure they'd withdraw the demand of its being taught at all, if all religions were given the same status. :ph34r:

Actually I think they would fight against it. The question was asked if the ten commandments were allowed to be displayed in courts would they also allow a Buddha...they said no because it is not American Judaic/Christian tradition... Apparently freedom of religion in public is the for the Christian faith only :dry:

[GepperRankins]

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/22sch01.htm


merkin christian fundamentalists are always good for a laugh. i wish i was a merkin schoolboy, so i could be an argumentative little shit in "science" classes

[lynx]

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/22sch01.htm


merkin christian fundamentalists are always good for a laugh. i wish i was a merkin schoolboy, so i could be an argumentative little shit in "science" classesAre you trying to convince us you weren't? :shifty:

More seriously, Harry Potter no more "accurately portrays obviously a religion" than, say, Ben Hur does for christianity. Certainly it refers to witchcraft, but that is the nature of all books, they have a setting and in this case it is in a school of witchcraft. That does not equate to promoting of teaching witchcraft.

Let's assume that it teaches witchcraft. In that case by now there will be kids all over the world who are well practised at various spells etc. Naturally, we see it all the time. Actually, you should probably be promoting this even more, I'm sure they could do something about the vampires with which your cities seem to be infested. :rolleyes:

[GepperRankins]

well i always have been. but it'd be so much more fun pwning creationalism.


i remember one time in RE the teacher said something like we can't force religion on someone. i said "you're doing it right now", he said "but you don't have to be here" pretty much in unison half the class shouted "YES WE DO". those were the days :happy:

[lynx]

well i always have been. but it'd be so much more fun pwning creationalism.


i remember one time in RE the teacher said something like we can't force religion on someone. i said "you're doing it right now", he said "but you don't have to be here" pretty much in unison half the class shouted "YES WE DO". those were the days :happy:Did you get put on moderation. :shifty:

[Snee]

well i always have been. but it'd be so much more fun pwning creationalism.
I mentioned the christian creation theory once, in biology class or possibly physics class, when the teacher accounted for a bunch of popular theories.

He laughed.

[bigboab]

well i always have been. but it'd be so much more fun pwning creationalism.
I mentioned the christian creation theory once, in biology class or possibly physics class, when the teacher accounted for a bunch of popular theories.

He laughed.

when I was younger at the school we had Religious Education Classes. All we did was read passages from the Bible. No discussions on the rights or wrongs of those passages. Just read them.

I have to admit a heinous sin, I joined the Sunday School because they used to have a good 'day trip' once a year.:(

[Barbarossa]

This is such a load of codswallop. :angry:

I have read the first 5 Harry Potter books. They are great children's fiction, using situations that children can relate to (i.e. a boarding school) with a fantasy twist in that it's a boarding school of magic. The theme of all the books is your standard "good versus evil" storyline..

They do not promote witchcraft as a religion.. That's just bollocks.

Also, kids aren't stupid, they know the difference between fiction and fact, otherwise there'd be a spate of broken noses at Kings Cross because of kids trying to get to platform nine-and-three-quarters... :frusty:

These silly people who see ulterior motives in everything should get a life.

[Biggles]

The idea that these books actually advance a particular religious point of view is plain nonsense.

I can only assume that those who argue this point have not read Harry Potter and secondly know next to nothing about traditional European Pagan religions.

The books are of the rather old fashioned, schoolkids save the day, good triumphs over evil variety. Those piqued by their success appear to base their ire purely on the fact that the setting is fantasy one.

Presumably Dinotopia, Alice in Wonderland, Lord of the Rings and numerous other books are on the same hit list.

I think what strikes me most is that if these individuals can be so wrong on this issue what else have they got back to front?

[bigboab]

what else have they got back to front?

Some of them sex.:unsure:

[cooki]

dont see any of this harry potter cult thing in ireland

[3RA1N1AC]

does the establishment of legal precedents & doctrine by the court system not count for anything?


The books are of the rather old fashioned, schoolkids save the day, good triumphs over evil variety. Those piqued by their success appear to base their ire purely on the fact that the setting is fantasy one.
so... it's like "The Hardy Boys" with magic?

parents can be such uptight fuddy duddies, nowadays. i wonder how many of the people who would ban something like "The Wizard Of Oz" actually enjoyed it themselves when they were kids, and now just want to deny their own children the same pleasure (of experiencing pagan/satanic/wiccan entertainment).