I hear through the grapevine...

[sArA]

Thats a new one on me....do you have a source?

[99%]

cummon - dis is total crap
in my house i disaproove of people walking around with uzzi's & dark clothing - so the cops should respect my principle?
a house is not a temple/religious sanctity- and hence does not come under rligious immunity.
As for all the christian/catholic/protestetant etc cops out there - thou shalt not kill

J2k4 - stop reading those damn tabloids of paranoia

[3RA1N1AC]

is the issue here with the bedfordshire county police force's guidelines to respecting religious customs in general, or those of muslims in particular? are we to conclude that the police are giving special treatment to muslims, and all other religions get "stuffed"?



the two main sources i'm able to dig up:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=357905

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45571

not sure if there's one closer to the leak.

[manker]

...that police forces in the U.K. must remove their footware before conducting any raid upon a domicile wherein are Muslim inhabitants.

Way to go, you guys... :dry:What's wrong with that.

Provided they all quietly take off their shoes prior to an armed raid, no time will be lost at all in determining their guilt upon entry and subsequent search.

I mean, a little respect costs nothing :dry:



























Well, one blatantly obvious rod deserves another.

[vidcc]

It's the best way to sneak up unnoticed... :naughty:

[GepperRankins]

so terrorist offices can be guarded with drawing pins? :01:

[3RA1N1AC]

is that 'nything like a thumb tack?

[DarthInsinuate]

yes, but with more artistic flair

[GepperRankins]

i found a fun link on that page brainiac linked - http://www.wndbookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6805



When PC propagandists assure us that jihadist terror doesn't reflect "true," "peaceful" Islam, they're not only wrong, they're dangerous -- because they lull America and the West into letting their guard down against their mortal enemy. And not only do self-appointed "experts" lie elaborately and persistently about Islam -- they have also replaced the truth about Christian Europe and the Crusades with an all-pervasive historical fantasy that is designed to make you ashamed of your own culture and heritage -- and thus less determined to defend it. But now there's a remedy: in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), Robert Spencer reveals all the disturbing facts about Islam and its murderous hostility to the West that other books ignore, soft-pedal -- or simply lie about.

:lol:

[GepperRankins]

http://www.wndbookservice.com/products/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=c6581

w

http://www.wndbookservice.com/products/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=c6550

t

http://www.wndbookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6686

f?

[3RA1N1AC]

to clarify: i didn't choose links to right wing sites to make a point about bias. i just couldn't find mention of the story at any other mainstream sites that could be considered more impartial.

[GepperRankins]

oh, i wasn't saying anything by it. the site just made me giggle :ermm:

[tracydani]

The damn coppers and the **AA's had better stay away from my holy shrine of the internet and filesharing god's then :angry:

I have my rights too :dry:

[Rat Faced]

...that police forces in the U.K. must remove their footware before conducting any raid upon a domicile wherein are Muslim inhabitants.

Way to go, you guys... :dry:

Only Bedfordshire... and they probably only have one Islamic household in their area :lol:

[Busyman]

:blink:

Rapid entry needs to be the last resort and raids into Muslim houses are discouraged for a number of religious dignity reasons.
Fuck awf!!! Should they come in slowly? Wtf is the point of a raid? Ya may as well call first or knock at the door lightly and say please.


Police should seek to avoid looking at unclad Muslim women and allow them an opportunity to dress and cover their heads.
No police should seek to avoid looking at any unclad women unless they they are hiding something (but if unclad, where would they be hiding someth....oh neva mind)


For reasons of dignity officers should seek to avoid entering occupied bedrooms and bathrooms even before dawn.
"My fellow terrorists....you have 'till dawn to stash yo shit. Better yet, be out of the house before then...well fuck it, they no longer do raids anyway."


Use of police dogs will be considered serious desecration of the premises and may necessitate extensive cleaning of the house and disposal of household items.
Great everyone else that may be innocent gets a bite in the ass. Ya wanna be a criminal...switch faiths andwhatnot. You a get a less a hassle a.


Advice should be sought before considering the use of cameras and camcorders due to the risk of capturing individuals, especially women, in inappropriate dress.
"While getting that advice, I'll just be stashing my shit in a different place....no, no, don't mind me...uh huh..go get that advice doohicky, gogo."


Muslim prisoners should be allowed to take additional clothing to the station.
...and clothing is not to be checked for bombs to take to the police station. Mmk?

Everyone else not Muslim You SUCK!!!
Mmk?

If people are praying at home officers should stand aside and not disrupt the prayer. They should be allowed the opportunity to finish.
...but once you finish that prayer, a can of ass-whippin and a barrel of butt-kickin' can commence. No, no STFU you had your prayer.



Officers should not take shoes into the houses, especially in areas that might be kept pure for prayer purposes.
"My fellow Muslims....
Once the officers call after dawn (or knock at the door) to advise you of an impending raid, try to stash/flush anything that might considered illegal and throw thumb tacks all over the floor. Broken glass would also buy you some time"

In the current climate the justification for pre-dawn raids on Muslim houses needs to be clear and transparent.
One clear and trasparent justification....

...we previously warned them of pre-dawn raids. :blink:

Non-Muslims are not allowed to touch holy books, Qurans or religious artifacts without permission. Where possible, Muslim officers in a state of 'Wudhu' (preparation before prayer) should be used for this purpose.
The Qu'ran.............

A great place to store yo guns and shit. (just cut a square in the pages)

"And, you can put your weed in there"

----The Hot Chick

[3RA1N1AC]

:blink:

[GepperRankins]

i have a question about dignity. why is it ok to show and name a guy being arrested naked, at gunpoint for being suspected of having links to terrorism on TV over and over. especially when it seems they're more likely to get attacked by lightning sharks than actually charged with anything

:dry:

[GepperRankins]

my point exactly :snooty:


edit: i'm mixing up my msn smiley code and and forum smiley code

[DanB]

I have heard this too. Also they aren't allowed to look at muslim women they think may be not fully dressed (in the islamic way), not use sniffer dogs and not conduct raids before dawn as they may be praying.


And guess what? Our MP's have gone on an 80 day holiday when they have important stuff to deal with


Viva la revolution I say :01:

[DanB]

Sorry TehDave but the only pics I have seen are the of the man with his top off. Does that count as being naked now?

I think you will find that they will be charged, especially seeing as durka matey who was nicked in Italy has admitted to knowing them and going off bombing with them :P

[GepperRankins]

he was down to his pants. there was a wall in the way though. i doubt that makes much difference to him though

[Busyman]

I have heard this too. Also they aren't allowed to look at muslim women they think may be not fully dressed (in the islamic way), not use sniffer dogs and not conduct raids before dawn as they may be praying.
:ohmy:
That stuff was in 3RA1N1AC's links.

[99%]

BTW-

Can anyone prove this policy is not in force? :huh:

google for any images of us military in afganistan or iraq - search for images of soldiers without shoes.
good luck

[3RA1N1AC]

Have you looked on any left-wing sites?
nuh uh. google news only turned up two significant sources: the daily mail and worldnetdaily. everything else i saw was merely linking to worldnetdaily. it didn't give me any left wing sources. or any objective sources, for that matter.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8425/beds6kf.jpg

by "more impartial," i meant a source that has a little more to do with classic notebook-and-pencil, get-the-facts news journalism. rather than an editorial column in the daily mail (a right wing tabloid) or a glorified blog entry on worldnetdaily (a news-plagiarism site that's peddling a selection of books running the gamut from "the truth about hillary" to "liberalism is a mental disorder").

it took a coupla minutes of digging, but here's the paper that WND swiped their story from: http://www.lsnmedia.co.uk/luton/page.html?pageID=26&storyID=34803

[whypikonme]

l see no problem with being sensitive to people's religious beliefs and customs, after all, they are innocent unless proven otherwise, and if something incriminating is found, the heavy mob can move in, by this time the women should all be dressed anyway.

[Everose]

To me, the word 'raid' implies 'storming'. Would be hard for me to 'storm' while taking off my shoes.

[Busyman]

I can't believe I'm hearing this...

Folks...it ain't a raid then!!!

Second off, in a police action there shouldn't be religion.

If a person suspected of breaking the law and a raid is to be carried out then treat everyone the same regardless of religion.

[whypikonme]

l think the US marines in Iraq could teach our police a thing or two about raiding Muslim homes. Forget religious customs, just turn up at the door, shout something they don't understand, kick the door down, rush in with guns pointing at them, then drag them all out and make them lay face down in the dirt. They need to learn respect for the way WE do things.

[3RA1N1AC]

Where the hell do you go to get THAT? :huh:

Please don't tell me the N.Y.T. ... :P
maybe "classic news journalism" is a bit too much to ask for. i reckon for all of its faults the NY Times or just about any traditional-format U.S. newspaper has a much better grip on accuracy, objective detachment, editorial oversight & professional ethics than blogs (or blog-like "independent news sites") and U.K. tabloids do.

back to my earlier point. Gepper was havin' a go at the apparent bias (i guess?) of WorldNetDaily, and it hadn't originally been my intention to comment at all on right-wing media. it's just that i had two links, and they were both links to quite explicitly right-wing sites. would i have preferred to link the Associated Press, Reuters, the BBC, or even the dreaded NY Times? definitely. are those left-wing sources? highly debatable. nevertheless, are they anywhere near as partisan as the Daily Mail or WorldNetDaily? no way.

[GepperRankins]

l think the US marines in Iraq could teach our police a thing or two about raiding Muslim homes. Forget religious customs, just turn up at the door, shout something they don't understand, kick the door down, rush in with guns pointing at them, then drag them all out and make them lay face down in the dirt. They need to learn respect for the way WE do things.
to the british, "hearts and minds" is more than a meaningless cliche



or were you being sarcastic/rodding :justgotup:




ps. why is impartial critisised as left wing?

[DanB]

I have heard this too. Also they aren't allowed to look at muslim women they think may be not fully dressed (in the islamic way), not use sniffer dogs and not conduct raids before dawn as they may be praying.
:ohmy:
That stuff was in 3RA1N1AC's links.


Na, I read it at work on my lunchbreak in The Sun. I didn't even bother with Brainiacs links :dry:

[GepperRankins]

the sun = our fox news :01:

[JPaul]

It sounds like a policy by one English force rather than anything else.

I would be absolutely stunned if specialist strike squads would do this. Purely on a Health and Safety basis. The federation are never going to wear it (pun intended).

This seems to be the essence of the story


POLICE have been told to take their shoes off and not use sniffer dogs when raiding Muslim homes.

An 18-point guide issued by Bedfordshire Police lists dos and don'ts when dealing with Muslims who are suspected of terrorist or drugs offences.

The guidelines state that 'the Muslim community feels victimised and suspicious of counter terrorist police operations and in the current climate a search at a British Muslim household has the potential to become a critical incident and come under intense scrutiny'.

It then lists 18 points police officers should note.

These include:

• Rapid entry needs to be the last resort and raids into Muslim houses are discouraged for a number of religious dignity reasons.

• Police should seek to avoid looking at unclad Muslim women and allow them an opportunity to dress and cover their heads.

• For reasons of dignity officers should seek to avoid entering occupied bedrooms and bathrooms even before dawn.

• Use of police dogs will be considered serious desecration of the premises and may necessitate extensive cleaning of the house and disposal of household items.

• Advice should be sought before considering the use of cameras and camcorders due to the risk of capturing individuals, especially women, in inappropriate dress.

• Muslim prisoners should be allowed to take additional clothing to the station.

• If people are praying at home officers should stand aside and not disrupt the prayer. They should be allowed the opportunity to finish.

• Officers should not take shoes into the houses, especially in areas that might be kept pure for prayer purposes.

• In the current climate the justification for pre-dawn raids on Muslim houses needs to be clear and transparent.

• Non-Muslims are not allowed to touch holy books, Qurans or religious artefacts without permission. Where possible, Muslim officers in a state of 'Wudhu' (preparation before prayer) should be used for this purpose.

Chairman of Luton Council of Faiths, Zafar Khan, welcomed the guidelines but said the police should deal with all faiths sensitively.

He said: "Guidelines on how to deal and interact with the community in all faiths should be welcomed.

"It's a question of being sensitive and informed and if that makes the policing more effective and more sensitive that has to be a good thing."

Abdul Malik, chairman of Luton Race Advisory Forum, said it had been in discussions with the police about how to raid houses before the London bombing campaign.

He said: "The police need to be sensitive when they are going into the homes of everybody - not just Muslims.

"They should keep respect. Some Hindus and Sikhs have a place or a room devoted to prayer and that should be respected too."

A Bedfordshire Police spokesman said: "The guidelines are regularly issued to all staff as a reminder of the force protocol when entering a Muslim household.

"We take very seriously the culture surrounding all faiths and feel it is important to respect those beliefs, even while carrying out police business. We would like to reassure all communities that any current or perceived tensions, which might be heightened as a result of recent events, will not affect how police deal with Muslims or anyone else."

Source http://www.lsnmedia.co.uk/luton/

[GepperRankins]

ps. why is impartial critisised as left wing?

Why is anything not considered "mainstream" criticized as "right-wing"?

Why does the left-wing presume all of it's views to be impartial/mainstream?

Why does the left-wing deny it's own existence?

To hear you talk, there is a right-wing view, your own mainstream version, and nothing else.

As my Gran used to say: PSHAW!!

3RA1N1AC-

Please resist the urge to cloud the issue with reason and logic. :)
it seems that if a news channel, for example reports on civilians being killed by american gunfire it's said to be left wing. even if the same channel reports civilians being killed by iraqi gunfire and presents both cases with the facts and and background, it's "left wing".

it appears to me that to be truly impartial you must be biased and lie to support the american government.

[JPaul]

ps. why is impartial critisised as left wing?
Why does the left-wing presume all of it's views to be impartial/mainstream?

Why does the left-wing deny it's own existence?


I don't, but I wish they were mainstream.

I certainly don't deny it's existence, however I despair of it's diminution, in my country.

We've discussed this before now. I think The Lord was left-wing. All this love others, sharing, looking after the weak and needy and so forth. FFS he practically designed the welfare state.

[Rat Faced]

I hope there's not going to be talk of going through the head of a needle and stuff now :unsure:

[JPaul]

I hope there's not going to be talk of going through the head of a needle and stuff now :unsure:
Good point, well presented.

[3RA1N1AC]

Why does the left-wing deny it's own existence?

...

3RA1N1AC-

Please resist the urge to cloud the issue with reason and logic. :)

oh there is left-wing media. or left-leaning. well, let's not beat around the bush. left-wing. but then i'd hesitate to post news links from The Guardian (U.K.) or The Village Voice (NY), too.

[JPaul]

Good point, well presented.

The head of a needle? :blink:

Ooer...

Or something like that. :P
Hoi, don't misquote my irony and make it innuendo.

[JPaul]

Hoi, don't misquote my irony and make it innuendo.

An Italian suppository? :huh:
What happened to the drumroll / cymball smillie.

Yo Liam, respect dude.

[whypikonme]

I think The Lord was left-wing. All this love others, sharing, looking after the weak and needy and so forth.
The quote of the thread!

Rather ironic too that 'right-wing' is so often associated with the religious right, who appear at times to be anything but religious.

[JPaul]

I think The Lord was left-wing. All this love others, sharing, looking after the weak and needy and so forth.
The quote of the thread!

Rather ironic too that 'right-wing' is so often associated with the religious right, who appear at times to be anything but religious.
I don't associate "right wing" with "the religious right".

I think of "right wing" as being a political description and "the religious right" as those who are religiously conservative, (please to be noting the small "c")

So, right wing may be BNP (to be extreme), the religious right might be "the wee free". Not really the same thing at all.

[whypikonme]

I don't associate "right wing" with "the religious right".

I think of "right wing" as being a political description and "the religious right" as those who are religiously conservative, (please to be noting the small "c")

So, right wing may be BNP (to be extreme), the religious right might be "the wee free". Not really the same thing at all.

l said it was OFTEN associated with the religious right, which it is, especially in the US of A. So many new initiatives are based on a religious agenda. Religion and politics are engaged in a never ending struggle.

[JPaul]

I don't associate "right wing" with "the religious right".

I think of "right wing" as being a political description and "the religious right" as those who are religiously conservative, (please to be noting the small "c")

So, right wing may be BNP (to be extreme), the religious right might be "the wee free". Not really the same thing at all.

l said it was OFTEN associated with the religious right, which it is, especially in the US of A. So many new initiatives are based on a religious agenda. Religion and politics are engaged in a never ending struggle.
I said "I don't associate ...." I never said that anyone else agreed with me.

I was expressing MY opinion.

Please quantify OFTEN, or is that just YOUR opinion.

[whypikonme]

Please quantify OFTEN, or is that just YOUR opinion.

Of course it is, it's certainly not yours.

[JPaul]

Please quantify OFTEN, or is that just YOUR opinion.

Of course it is, it's certainly not yours.
:lol:

My brother can kick your brother's arse.

[whypikonme]

Of course it is, it's certainly not yours.
:lol:

My brother can kick your brother's arse.

He'd have trouble, my brother died in 1971 and we had him cremated.

[manker]

:lol:

My brother can kick your brother's arse.

He'd have trouble, my brother died in 1971 and we had him cremated.So JP's brother wouldn't be able to see your brother's arse for dust.

http://moderation.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/default/dabs.gif

[Rat Faced]

Sick...

..and dont expect me to accuratley quote gospels from a religion i aint apart of :P (now manker and JP can come and crucify me for bad spelling and the introduction of americanism's into the English Language...)

You all knew what i meant which was, after all, the point ;)

[manker]

crucify me for bad spellingThat should be legal in schools up to the age of 14.

That would learn them :dry:

[JPaul]

Sick...

..and dont expect me to accuratley quote gospels from a religion i aint apart of :P (now manker and JP can come and crucify me for bad spelling and the introduction of americanism's into the English Language...)

You all knew what i meant which was, after all, the point ;)
If you can't quote it accurately then why quote it.

That just misleads your viewer, leading to discombobulation.