An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
I wanted to start a serious discussion about the common policy of lifetime banning someone from a tracker as well as "pre-banning", meaning banning them from one tracker because they were banned from another. Hopefully there won't be too many ruffled feathers about it but here are my thoughts:
I know people will say, it is a private tracker and they can do whatever they want, and yes, that is true. I am merely stating an opinion on the matter in the hopes this will start a serious discussion and rethinking of certain policies because, In my opinion these policies need to be rethought.
To give a little background, I was banned from a certain tracker about 5 years ago for ghost leeching. I didn't know what it was at the time, I just had a horrible internet connection and at the time there wasn't really any mechanism in place for users in my situation. I didn't stand a chance, I tried everything but from the beginning my ratio was in trouble and some kind of administrative action would likely happen anyway. Yes, I probably should have known better and that it was probably against the rules but I was desperate because, as I said, from the very beginning I didn't stand a chance. Anyway, I took my punishment and carried on. I learned my lesson and accepted the fact that I would be banned for life, unless I got another invite under a new username and email and IP and MAC, which I did not want to do because I actually wanted to be a good member. So I basically quit torrenting, or did very little and only in certain trackers where it was easier to maintain a ratio on slow connections. This continued until better speeds became available in my town. I had become a member at other private trackers within five years. Those that asked the "have you been banned anywhere else" question, I truthfully said yes and explained why and most were understanding that it was a mistake a very long time ago and I have strived to rebuild my reputation.
However there were some that were not so understanding. Again, I understand that these are private trackers and they have no obligation to me at all. I joined another tracker a few months ago, one I had been wanting to join for a while. I had joined by invite from the site creator in a class-restricted forum on another tracker. He did not ask me the "question", I just asked for an invite and he gave it to me. So I assumed he already did the "background check" I know they do and didn't care for whatever reason. This site had no ratio requirements after all. I had only activated my account, not even downloaded anything yet, before I was banned. I was told the reason I was banned was because of that 5 year old ban on another tracker. I was told I would have to clear things up with them before I would be un-banned, if at all. As I'm sure you could tell, even though I was forthcoming, cooperative, and polite, things did not go well with either of those conversations. After waiting for days and only getting a few minutes to talk, I got nowhere with either site. Fine. It is a private site after all and even though it was a noob mistake 5 years ago and I have had a good reputation at many other sites since then, they can do what they want.
Apart from the unnecessary rudeness and days of waiting only to be mostly ignored, the part that really got me was when one of them said, "we don't invite cheaters". That really made me angry for a number of reasons which is the crux of this whole thing. Because they do have cheaters on their sites. They do invite them and many of them don't get caught. If you have ever read any of these forums you know that. People just get another invite or whatever. The real cheaters as I call them. Hell, there are even forums dedicated to cheating on elite private trackers. What they don't have is people that made a mistake and want to be reintegrated into the community. Again, yes, it is a private tracker and they have no obligation to do so but I don't think they ever considered the side effects of these policies.
Instead of discouraging breaking the rules, I would argue these policies in many cases have the reverse affect. If you break a rule early in your torrenting "career" either on purpose or by accident, and your punishment is a lifetime ban from not only one tracker but a pre-ban from many others, what does that do? Does that mean that person is just going to say "oh well" and walk away? Not likely. Since they already know there is absolutely nothing else they can loose, more than likely I would imagine it would just make them try to find another way in and keep doing it after the continue to get caught. And that is exactly what happens. I do not know how often it happens as I have never ran a tracker (and I would be very curious if anyone has numbers) but I see people on this forum and others talk about how they got banned and just got a new invite since that is the only option for reintegration. Meanwhile, those that learned from there mistakes long ago and want to be part of the community cannot be. Again, private trackers aren't obligated to re-integrate you, but if they don't then I believe that, more often than not, that would turn someone that wants to be part of the community into a career cheater. It seems to me the lifetime ban and pre-ban policies of many of these private trackers are in fact indirectly encouraging cheating and possibly creating cheaters more than it is trying to prevent it. I think a better policy would be some sort of re-integration policy after a lengthy ban. What are your thoughts on the matter? And please, let's keep this discussion serious and civil.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
2003/2004 there was no cheaters peeps just glad to be part great sites and because wasn't that many you respected their rules became part some great communities.
Now days depends on how a peep gets introduced to the torrent scene, cheat site...yeah learning their way peeps get banned, trading sites... trading accounts well they get caught banned for trading
If your lucky enough to find open torrent site or invite forum actually learn the correct way to do things from day-one already right path
Personally think peeps get lead astray a little depending on how introduced to torrent world , answer to Question. YES peeps should have a second chance but how to pick the genuine member who sorry past and use second chance.Others would just carry on their wicked ways :-)
I'm sure just easier to leave peeps on the banned list rather then try way through who's good and bad
Would be easier to just change ip new email and username behave from that point on. Good sites have enough open sign ups to get back in, even your site didn't you slow build that good member rep up eventually get invite to the site you wanted.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
like extradry says, how can we differentiate between the 2, if we take one persons word for it we have to take everyone elses, and if you give people an inch they will take a mile.
as for global bans, i am not that keen on them (its not global anyway, every tracker doesnt talk to every tracker), some things are warranted for a ban across trackers, Hacks/DDos attacks (if you can find out who is behind them grr), aggressive behaviour to the staff (and i mean death threats like behaviour, not just a fuck off here and there), selling accounts/invites, systematic cheating, what i mean by this is, not just 1 tracker reporting them but at least 3-5.
Other trackers see it a lot differently though, if you break just a little rule, they go on the rampage and want you banned from everywhere, doesnt mean all trackers will ban you for it, but some will.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
I actually would want the trackers to stop prunning the account , I lost my BCG account twice and despite being with them since 2007 my running account is from 2011.
O.T - Any chance BCG would be up tomorrow ?
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stoi
like extradry says, how can we differentiate between the 2, if we take one persons word for it we have to take everyone elses, and if you give people an inch they will take a mile.
It's simple. If someone cheated at a tracker and is asking for a second chance just a couple days later, then you probably should say no, cheaters aren't allowed.
But 5 years later? A lot changes in 5 years. Filesharing itself changes a lot in 5 years. People change a lot in 5 years. Heck, I've changed a lot in the almost 5 years I've been here. I'm certainly not the same person I was when I first registered on this forum. I'd hope that anyone who's been here that long has changed at least a little bit as well.
Lifetime bans are kind of ridiculous. They should really be done away with imo.
Global bans I think really depend on the gravity of what you did. Traded an invite? Have an awful ratio or hit and run'd too many times? Made a dupe account? Whatever, just ban the account.
Sold dozens of invites for hundreds of dollars? Ratio cheated terabytes of data? The global ban might be justifiable.
Keep in mind I don't really think Bittorrent is really serious business enough to really warrant dramatic global/lifetime bans at all. I only say that I can kind of see someone's viewpoint for the situation I mentioned above.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Quote:
Originally Posted by
issues
And please, let's keep this discussion serious and civil.
OK,let us be serious.
It is hard to take seriously the protests of someone who's moral compass only (apparently) suddenly kicks in when he happens to be the one being effected.
Other than that I am seriously missing the part where you were "deprived" of anything as you didn't actually have that thing to begin with.
As for "fairness",I also seemed to have missed the memo where life suddenly became fair.
I think that instead of shaking a fist at the heavens and railing against imagined injustice,a reasonable person merely carries on and attempts to live to best of their ability and tries to keep the whining to a tolerable minimum.
Btw I'm basically a genius when it comes to people and all I'm seeing here is someone who got his feelings hurt because some internet type had the audacity to blackball him from his pseudo-cool pseudo-fraternity.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Is this your first and only account in this forum, issues?
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Honesty isn't always the best policy. Most trackers basically don't care....you are just a number to them. Just get a different IP, email and username and start from fresh.
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Quote:
Originally Posted by
absent_today
I actually would want the trackers to stop prunning the account , I lost my BCG account twice and despite being with them since 2007 my running account is from 2011.
O.T - Any chance BCG would be up tomorrow ?
We have just turned pruning back on, Super PU and above are immune (so get downloading and using the site if you are not that class, its not that hard), and its set to 3 months unparked and 6 months parked.
1/2 of our memberbase hadnt logged in for 3 months or more, the pruning got rid of i believe 21,000 inactive members, and then I opened straight away, but 10 minutes later we got another DDos, so best laid plans and all that...
as for will we be back online tomorrow, i honestly do not have a clue.
for the 5 years thing, if a tracker says its a lifetime ban, then thats what it is, i cant be arsed to keep track of shit like that though
Re: An open discussion on the "lifetime ban" and "pre-banning" policies
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stoi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
absent_today
I actually would want the trackers to stop prunning the account , I lost my BCG account twice and despite being with them since 2007 my running account is from 2011.
O.T - Any chance BCG would be up tomorrow ?
We have just turned pruning back on, Super PU and above are immune (so get downloading and using the site if you are not that class, its not that hard), and its set to 3 months unparked and 6 months parked.
1/2 of our memberbase hadnt logged in for 3 months or more, the pruning got rid of i believe 21,000 inactive members, and then I opened straight away, but 10 minutes later we got another DDos, so best laid plans and all that...
as for will we be back online tomorrow, i honestly do not have a clue.
for the 5 years thing, if a tracker says its a lifetime ban, then thats what it is, i cant be arsed to keep track of shit like that though
But hasn't your website been down for the better part of 3 months? I haven't been able to access BCG for a long time now, I don't know how long exactly. But if your website is down every time that I try in a 3 month period (not necessarily that you were down all 3 months, just when I've tried) I may have been pruned and not even know it still since I still can't access the site.
This is more of a question really, because I think its been around 3 months since I've been able to login to BCG. Not because of lack of trying though.
