Is Bush the worse US President ever?

Is Bush the worse US president you've ever had?

From a recent blog ...
"He was a failed student, a failed military man, a failed businessman who drove several businesses into the ground. An ex-alcoholic and substance abuser."

This, from another site ..

1. Bush and his oligarchic companions sabotaged American democracy so they could pillage taxpayer resources.
   
2. Bush and his cabal of henchmen lied to the American people about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, and they continue to obfuscate the truth while their companies cash in, Iraqis suffer and American soldiers die.
   
3. Bush is bad for business and the economy. He is only interested in enriching himself and his friends.
   
4. Bush is bad for the future. He is compromising the prosperity of tomorrow's America by shortchanging today's children.
   
5. Bush is bad for the environment.
   
6. The Bush Administration has manipulated the media to the point of undermining the Constitutional guarantees of a Free Press.
   
7. Bush has tried to undermine the United Nations, a democratic institution created in large measure by Presidents Eisenhower and Truman. Without even understanding what the UN does, Bush has called it "irrelevant" when it fails to fall in line with his dictates.
   
8. Bush is inarticulate and projects a stereotype abroad of Americans being ignorant and myopic.
   
9. Bush torpedoes global agreements on everything from racism and global warming to biological weapons and land mines, and then expects the world to line up behind him.
   
10. Bush took positive patriotism and global support in the wake of 9/11 and forced it behind his own narrow self-interest in Iraq. He hijacked 9/11 for his own benefit.
    
11. Bush stands against everything America stands for.

Source



So, has there been a worse one, apart from Jimmy Carter, of course? :lol:

Can a mod move this to Funny Stuff? :unsure:

I really hate to dignify this thread with a legitimate response, but I guess I'll have to give vidcc something to comment on so he doesn't praise this as the Best Thread Ever. :whistling

There have been plenty of successes during the Bush administration:

Tax cuts.
No child left behind
Prescription drug plan
Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

Any appraisal of Bush's record must consider that he took over in difficult times. By most measures, the economy is doing well: Inflation, interest rates, and unemployment are low, the stock market is higher than it's ever been and still climbing, economic growth is right with it also.

Bush has had the uneven trip of guiding the USA through the post 9/11 era, and the country has not seen an attack in over five years, though there have been many attempts.

A recent column I read put it well:

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I don't know how history will judge him. My guess is that, like most presidents, he will have a mixed record. We can debate policies and actions now, but honesty should force us to acknowledge that real judgments will have to wait.

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Jimmy Carter was the worst U.S. president ever.

He is now the worst ex-U.S. president ever.

It is not likely his remarkable incompetence will be eclipsed, ever.

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

Is Bush the worse US president you've ever had?

From a recent blog ...
"He was a failed student, a failed military man, a failed businessman who drove several businesses into the ground. An ex-alcoholic and substance abuser."

This, from another site ..

1. Bush and his oligarchic companions sabotaged American democracy so they could pillage taxpayer resources.
   
2. Bush and his cabal of henchmen lied to the American people about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, and they continue to obfuscate the truth while their companies cash in, Iraqis suffer and American soldiers die.
   
3. Bush is bad for business and the economy. He is only interested in enriching himself and his friends.
   
4. Bush is bad for the future. He is compromising the prosperity of tomorrow's America by shortchanging today's children.
   
5. Bush is bad for the environment.
   
6. The Bush Administration has manipulated the media to the point of undermining the Constitutional guarantees of a Free Press.
   
7. Bush has tried to undermine the United Nations, a democratic institution created in large measure by Presidents Eisenhower and Truman. Without even understanding what the UN does, Bush has called it "irrelevant" when it fails to fall in line with his dictates.
   
8. Bush is inarticulate and projects a stereotype abroad of Americans being ignorant and myopic.
   
9. Bush torpedoes global agreements on everything from racism and global warming to biological weapons and land mines, and then expects the world to line up behind him.
   
10. Bush took positive patriotism and global support in the wake of 9/11 and forced it behind his own narrow self-interest in Iraq. He hijacked 9/11 for his own benefit.
    
11. Bush stands against everything America stands for.

Source



So, has there been a worse one, apart from Jimmy Carter, of course? :lol:

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I'll bet you'd have been a sterling example of "Hitler Youth", had you been alive in the '30s.

You buy bullshit wholesale and eat most of it, while offering to share small lumps with others. :yup:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Jimmy Carter was the worst U.S. president ever.

He is now the worst ex-U.S. president ever.

It is not likely his remarkable incompetence will be eclipsed, ever.

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There are still 2 years to go.

Dubya will show you that there's nothing he can't do.

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Originally Posted by lynx

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Jimmy Carter was the worst U.S. president ever.

He is now the worst ex-U.S. president ever.

It is not likely his remarkable incompetence will be eclipsed, ever.

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There are still 2 years to go.

Dubya will show you that there's nothing he can't do.

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Here's the really funny part:

He'll need the complicity of a democrat legislature to do it.

I can't wait, actually. :whistling

I don't know about the worst president ever, but he certainly is the worst that I remember.

:shuriken:

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Originally Posted by MagicNakor

I don't know about the worst president ever, but he certainly is the worst that I remember.

:shuriken:

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Which is certainly to Carter's advantage; his tenure was, to say the least, forgettable.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I'll bet you'd have been a sterling example of "Hitler Youth", had you been alive in the '30s.

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What a ridiculous thing to say, another example of the way you attack the player when you have no intelligent answer.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You buy bullshit wholesale and eat most of it, while offering to share small lumps with others. :yup:

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From the king of bullshit, you've proved your gullibility from your total belief in WMD's to your refusal to admit your wonderful Reps have caused a civil war and mass instability in the Middle East.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

By most measures, the economy is doing well: Inflation, interest rates, and unemployment are low, the stock market is higher than it's ever been and still climbing, economic growth is right with it also.

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This is so far out it's almost funny: from the highest surplus ever when he took over, to the highest deficit in history: the first president in history to preside over a reduction in the total number of jobs during his first term, from 132 million to 131 million, compared to Clinton's first term in which he added 11 million jobs.

The value of, and confidence in, the dollar is collapsing all over the world, and if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely. But never mind, I'm sure the undemocratic country China will prop you up for a good while yet, seeing as they practically own you. :lol:

There are predictions of the dollar going to $2 = £1 in the not too distant future.

The trilliions of them being spent on financing the ongoing wars can't be helping the economy very much.

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

What a ridiculous thing to say, another example of the way you attack the player when you have no intelligent answer.

An attack?

Hardly.

I merely compare you to those who indiscriminately consume propaganda owing to mis-informed inclinations imbued by those who've indoctrinated them, a la the Hitler youth.

I guess I could call you a Kool-Aid drinker, if you prefer...

You haven't a single piece of rhetoric you can call your own; it all comes from the catalog of lib-speak.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You buy bullshit wholesale and eat most of it, while offering to share small lumps with others. :yup:

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From the king of bullshit, you've proved your gullibility from your total belief in WMD's to your refusal to admit your wonderful Reps have caused a civil war and mass instability in the Middle East.

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Whether or not the coalition found WMD or not, there is no denying Saddam had them, for we saw their effect on the Kurds, among others.

That you ignore this for your own convenience does not go un-noticed by others, I assure you.

As to the question of whose leaders have caused a civil war, I might promote the fact your own took a hand as well, since Bush might not have proceeded had he not found your government "willing".

Besides all that, "mass instability" is the normal state of affairs in the mideast.

BTW-

Do you remember (or did you ever know, given your political bent) that it was Jimmy Carter who urged Saddam to attack Iran, way back when?

I'm betting that's news to you, sunshine. :whistling

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Originally Posted by JPaul

There are predictions of the dollar going to $2 = £1 in the not too distant future.

The trilliions of them being spent on financing the ongoing wars can't be helping the economy very much.

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A truly startling amount of money, the sort of figures that are only available for waging wars, never for winning the peace.

Third World debt, Aids, child poverty, preventable deaths from common ailments, starvation ... etc.. The amount of money quoted to deal with these problems is minuscule compared with the money available to wage war.


The cost of the war in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Blah, blah, blah ...

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If you can't answer the question, attack the messenger.

I take it by your obfuscation that you have no defence of Bush worth hearing, and that you believe him to be the second worse US President in history after Carter.

worst

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Originally Posted by ilw

worst

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I agree, he's the worst.:yup:

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

Is Bush the worse US president you've ever had?

From a recent blog ...
"He was a failed student, a failed military man, a failed businessman who drove several businesses into the ground. An ex-alcoholic and substance abuser."

This, from another site ..

1. Bush and his oligarchic companions sabotaged American democracy so they could pillage taxpayer resources.
   
2. Bush and his cabal of henchmen lied to the American people about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, and they continue to obfuscate the truth while their companies cash in, Iraqis suffer and American soldiers die.
   
3. Bush is bad for business and the economy. He is only interested in enriching himself and his friends.
   
4. Bush is bad for the future. He is compromising the prosperity of tomorrow's America by shortchanging today's children.
   
5. Bush is bad for the environment.
   
6. The Bush Administration has manipulated the media to the point of undermining the Constitutional guarantees of a Free Press.
   
7. Bush has tried to undermine the United Nations, a democratic institution created in large measure by Presidents Eisenhower and Truman. Without even understanding what the UN does, Bush has called it "irrelevant" when it fails to fall in line with his dictates.
   
8. Bush is inarticulate and projects a stereotype abroad of Americans being ignorant and myopic.
   
9. Bush torpedoes global agreements on everything from racism and global warming to biological weapons and land mines, and then expects the world to line up behind him.
   
10. Bush took positive patriotism and global support in the wake of 9/11 and forced it behind his own narrow self-interest in Iraq. He hijacked 9/11 for his own benefit.
    
11. Bush stands against everything America stands for.

Source

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While I agree he is the worst President ever, I don't agree with all of the above.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

I really hate to dignify this thread with a legitimate response, but I guess I'll have to give vidcc something to comment on so he doesn't praise this as the Best Thread Ever. :whistling

There have been plenty of successes during the Bush administration:

Tax cuts.
No child left behind
Prescription drug plan
Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

Any appraisal of Bush's record must consider that he took over in difficult times. By most measures, the economy is doing well: Inflation, interest rates, and unemployment are low, the stock market is higher than it's ever been and still climbing, economic growth is right with it also.

Bush has had the uneven trip of guiding the USA through the post 9/11 era, and the country has not seen an attack in over five years, though there have been many attempts.

A recent column I read put it well:

Quote:

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I don't know how history will judge him. My guess is that, like most presidents, he will have a mixed record. We can debate policies and actions now, but honesty should force us to acknowledge that real judgments will have to wait.

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Housing policies that expanded home ownership?:lol:

No sir. Bush had shit all to do with that.

9/11 + recession = interest rate cut = buy a home now

Prices got jacked up due to higher demand because of the interest rate.

The housing market then became a stock market where people were just buying homes to flip them thus producing even more higher costing homes.

Now homes are higher than before and the interest rate is stabilizing. Those that did not have the money to get in initially are pretty much shut out now.

I don't attribute any of this to Bush.

You say there is this economic growth yet it doesn't translate to the average joe.

Company stock prices may go up but it could be due to job cuts, outsourcing to India, and so forth.

And dollar is shit comparing to the Euro and pound. Travelers abroad get sticker shock when they find sea bass at the Jules Verne Rstaurant is $78, a soda is $9, or dinner for 4 at a pizza place is $100.

Low personal savings, A BURSTING HOUSING BUBBLE, THE US DEFICIT, and indications of a recession are fucking up the dollar.

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Low personal savings, A BURSTING HOUSING BUBBLE, THE US DEFICIT, and indications of a recession of fucking up the dollar.

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No shit Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Skizo

I really hate to dignify this thread with a legitimate response, but I guess I'll have to give vidcc something to comment on so he doesn't praise this as the Best Thread Ever. :whistling

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Oh Ok

Although..... even though I think jnr. is the worst president in modern times I wouldn't say this is the best thread ever.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

There have been plenty of successes during the Bush administration:

Tax cuts.
No child left behind
Prescription drug plan
Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

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Tax cuts that led to a huge increase in the deficit, increased borrowing form countries like China amongst other borrowing. Meanwhile spending increases with not one spending veto. ( republican controlled spending). We still hear the "democrats tax and spend" mantra when in fact the republicans are the big spenders...."borrow, spend and let future generations pick up the tab".

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5...esscardah0.gif
Todays children all have one and all are maxed out.

I'm all for decreased taxation but I believe that spending should be under control to justify the cut before the cut is made. Any policy that leaves us beholden to other nations is not good.

No child left behind Sounds like a good idea, but not funded. Schools are ending up "teaching to the test". This administration is good at giving plans names that would make it hard to object to. example "clear skies initiative" who could object to clear skies?... And then if it is shown a 1% improvement in air quality..."see we have clearer skies"...... only problem is that the program actually loosened the standards already in place which could have achieved a 4% improvement (the improvement figures are examples for demonstration only here, not actual figures).

Prescription drug plan. another "great name" but a badly put together plan. Complex and can end up costing the recipient more once their coverage level has been reached. A golden egg given to the drug companies who charge the government more than they charge private insurance companies. It explicitly bans government from negotiating price so ends up costing the tax payer more. (corporate welfare)

Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

I'm not going to give a real plus or minus on this one because I think housing is a free flowing thing and all the government has to do is not hinder it. But just showing an increase doesn't mean that (especially the less well off ) are doing well. Those in the rental market that cannot get a mortgage are struggling.
24 % increase in second homes. (tax cuts for the top earners had to go somewhere)
Home ownership has been on the increase (it has ups and downs) for a long time. However it's an easy claim to phrase it as "more people own their homes now that ever before". We have more people so we need more homes.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

Any appraisal of Bush's record must consider that he took over in difficult times.

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I think he was left with a good deal compared to what many other presidents inherited.
Perhaps you could go over to the Jimmy carter thread and make the same point.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

By most measures, the economy is doing well: Inflation, interest rates, and unemployment are low, the stock market is higher than it's ever been and still climbing, economic growth is right with it also.

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Personal debt up, Medical Insurance increases way way over the inflation rates, number of people without health insurance up. Spending power in real terms down. middle income hourly wages down in real terms. Hours worked increased.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

Bush has had the uneven trip of guiding the USA through the post 9/11 era, and the country has not seen an attack in over five years, though there have been many attempts.

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I know republicans like to deny it happened but, Anthrax. Also policy has measurably increased terrorism worldwide.

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Originally Posted by Eva Estelle

This is so far out it's almost funny: from the highest surplus ever when he took over, to the highest deficit in history.

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Name one president who left office with a lower deficit than when he begun.

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Blah, blah, blah ...

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If you can't answer the question, attack the messenger.

I take it by your obfuscation that you have no defence of Bush worth hearing, and that you believe him to be the second worse US President in history after Carter.

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Now, that's an empty response.

Where Bush would actually fall in that pecking order is to subject to such debate as his dithering on immigration and his woeful fear the veto pen.

That debate has yet to occur, however.

My point about Carter stands.

BTW, (again)-I cannot be sure of Ian's intent, but you've gotten the spelling wrong in the thread heading as well.

I thought humans where capable of progress, just like evolution. Not regression.

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

...if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely...

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Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar. :whistling

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Originally Posted by Skizo

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Originally Posted by Eva Estelle

This is so far out it's almost funny: from the highest surplus ever when he took over, to the highest deficit in history.

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Name one president who left office with a lower deficit than when he begun.

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Bill Clinton and JFK to start. What's your point?

If I'm not mistaken, it was lowest when Reagan took office but we all know what happened to the deficit after that.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

...if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely...

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Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar. :whistling

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True if Europe was unified, it's economic might would rival the US easily.

The European Constitution went belly up.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/u...s/image002.gif


above shows actual money, but then $1 today doesn't have the same spending power as $1 of years past so below is debt along with gross domestic product


http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/u...s/image004.gif

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Originally Posted by vidcc

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/u...s/image002.gif

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I was waiting for that (was waiting for Skizo though).

I asked what's his point cuz hell movies also make more money than they did 20 years ago. Is this only cuz more people go to the theater?

So tell me, how does the graph relate to the GDP?

Also notice the biggest surges in the national debt on your graph. Notice the biggest surge of them all.

edit

http://www.ppionline.org/upload_grap...ance_Index.jpg

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Originally Posted by Skizo

edit

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I'm not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

So tell me, how does the graph relate to the GDP?

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In the edit..... My youngest daughter was sat on my lap and being the active little mischief maker that she is, managed to submit the post before I was finished by banging randomly on the keyboard.....:angel1:

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Originally Posted by vidcc

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

So tell me, how does the graph relate to the GDP?

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In the edit..... My youngest daughter was sat on my lap and being the active little mischief maker that she is, managed to submit the post before I was finished by banging randomly on the keyboard.....:angel1:

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I have no problem with busyedits.:smilie4:

I do wish you had let Skiz answer first though.:angry:

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar. :whistling

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True if Europe was unified, it's economic might would rival the US easily.

The European Constitution went belly up.

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When did that happen and why was I not informed.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

True if Europe was unified, it's economic might would rival the US easily.

The European Constitution went belly up.

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When did that happen and why was I not informed.

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As I recall JP, the French rejected it, maybe some other country too, there was some debate about whether the UK should go ahead with a referendum or not. I'll look it up ....


From Wikipedia ...

The Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe (TCE), commonly referred to as the European Constitution, was an international treaty intended to create a constitution for the European Union. It was signed in 2004 by representatives of the member states of the Union but was subject to ratification by all member states, two of which subsequently rejected it in referenda. Its main aims were to replace the overlapping set of existing treaties (see Treaties of the European Union) that comprise the Union's current constitution, to codify uniform human rights throughout the EU and to streamline decision-making in what is now a 25-member organisation.

The TCE was signed by representatives of the member states on October 29, 2004, and was in the process of ratification by the member states until, in 2005, French (May 29) and Dutch (June 1) voters rejected the treaty in referenda. The failure of the constitution to win popular support in these countries caused other countries to postpone or halt their ratification procedures, and the Constitution now has a highly uncertain future. Had it been ratified, the treaty would have come into force on November 1, 2006. As of December 2006, Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain had ratified the constitutional treaty.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

Name one president who left office with a lower deficit than when he begun.

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Does the fact that you're from Texas have anything to do with your blind faith in Bush?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

...if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely...

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Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar. :whistling

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You should try to keep up, the dollar is collapsing, the US is the highest debtor nation in the world, Russia, the world's second biggest oil producer, is already stockpiling Euros for the switch, when they do Iran will follow.

So don't get too cocky yet.

A little reading for you ... http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html

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Originally Posted by Ava Estelle

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar. :whistling

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Cocky has naught to do with it.

Here's a thought for you:

If your wish comes to pass, you'll have a whole set of countries to bitch about, but the U.S. won't be one of them.

How 'bout that? :whistling




You should try to keep up, the dollar is collapsing, the US is the highest debtor nation in the world, Russia, the world's second biggest oil producer, is already stockpiling Euros for the switch, when they do Iran will follow.

So don't get too cocky yet.

A little reading for you ... http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If your wish comes to pass, you'll have a whole set of countries to bitch about, but the U.S. won't be one of them.

How 'bout that? :whistling

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Don't worry, I'll find something to bitch about. :yup: