Do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers?

As the question says do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers? This hasn't even been discussed between staff yet and is not a possibility ATM. We do NOT share anyone's info here. I am only asking to get a general Idea of what the majority of the members think about this. Don't start with a thread war here OK guys lets act like adults. Just because you vote NO does NOT mean you yourself are a scammer/Cheater/Seller. This is an anonymous poll so no one knows how you voted. I'm going to say this again and still I know someone will miss it

We do NOT share anyone's info here. I am only asking to get a general Idea of what the majority of the members think about this.

I think if someone is a habitual cheater and is definately not learning from his stupidity then yes i agree with sharing this info but if a member has just cheated once and realizes how stupid his actions are then i think its best not to blacklist that member.

Of course I agree 100 % I don't have to anything to add

Yes most definitely. Those are the deadly sins of BitTorrenting and should be treated that way.

Global ban on first offense.

hmm Ok.

Scammers = the other persons fault for trading, learn the hard way.

Sellers = you cant sell on here, so how do you know them

Cheaters = how do you know they cheat, surely thats the tracker, and if the tracker wants a global ban, they contact other trackers, not through here though.

I just dont know how this will help the "War" between FST and the trackers.

I am not very comfortable or have got the time for that matter, that if we get a cheat, to pass the details to the staff off here, i may pass it onto other trackers, because they should probably know, but why does FST have to know?

Sorry, dont see the point, unless i am missing something.

Trading is against the rules of most trackers, FST allows trading, unless you do something abotu that, which you wont in a million years, the animosity is still going to be there, doesnt matter what you dress up a perk like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stoi

Trading is against the rules of most trackers, FST allows trading, unless you do something abotu that, which you wont in a million years, the animosity is still going to be there, doesnt matter what you dress up a perk like.

---

<3

listen to this man

Quote:

---

Do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers?

---

No I don't. It's not our job to police the bittorrent "community". This is a forum where people come to chat or whatever.

Enforcing their own rules is the job of the trackers in question.

Is it your job to protect them then? Because sometimes it seems that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue_Skies

Is it your job to protect them then? Because sometimes it seems that way.

---

No it's my job to moderate the posts on this forum and this forum alone.

The ones that are proven to cheat on other trackers? Sure. I think it's ok to give their ip's to other trackers. Only because if they'll cheat on one tracker, what will stop them from cheating on another? So I'm all for that.

As for the scammers. You're talking about the traders that will scam other members out of their invites, right? That I'm a little on the fence about that. They're not doing anything directly towards the tracker(yes, I know that trading is against most trackers rules, and that trading can bring in the wrong type of people into the tracker, but we're talking about scamming...not the actual trading of invites). They're doing something towards a member of the tracker. These are two traders interacting. If one of them gets scammed, then that person definitley has gotten what he deserves.

So for that I really don't know. I would say yes, give their ip's too, just because only douchebags scam others out of their invites. But this would really be the FST staffs call. But for the cheaters, definitely give up their ip's to other trackers(only once they're are proven to have cheated).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

No I don't. It's not our job to police the bittorrent "community". This is a forum where people come to chat or whatever.

---

If this was 'just' a forum where people come to chat then there would not be a problem. It is the 'whatever' that is the problem. Cheating is the province of the tracker involved, only they can check the upload stats and check to see whether data is being spoofed, but the scamming and invite selling goes on directly and indirectly here.
The only real threat in the bt world is the banhammer anyway, so sharing IP's and info on repeat offenders who carry on their scams regardless is at least going to worry them. The present situation where the member is banned then he heads off and gets another a/c via proxy only inconveniences the scammer for the month that he is a n00b, wooooo that's a big threat.
I realise that from the forum's point of view that this change of policy would be fatal, it is the trading and bit torrent section which is the busiest section by far of this forum, but the current situation is quite laughable, banning an experienced scammer/invite seller with multiple a/c's via proxy is the equivalent of a smack on the hand with a wet bus ticket.

Yes, get those scumbags

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Quote:

---

Do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers?

---

No I don't. It's not our job to police the bittorrent "community". This is a forum where people come to chat or whatever.

Enforcing their own rules is the job of the trackers in question.

---

Apparently your opinions differ from other moderators here, since a few are trying to make friends with tracker staff and the community as a whole.

If FST would like to be apart of the bittorrent "community," then FST should help rid their own community of scammers/cheaters/sellers, and help BT trackers do the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue_Skies

Is it your job to protect them then? Because sometimes it seems that way.

---

No it's my job to moderate the posts on this forum and this forum alone.

---

So when people are setting up multiple accounts to collect as many trackers as possible, shouldn't it also be your job to make sure that doesn't happen. It's not like you don't know what's going to happen.

I am staff on another forum (Not BitTorrent related), and when some member intensionally try to screw over or otherwise hurt other members by giving false info etc. I jump in to protect the members by doing whatever i deem necessary.

This approach seems like pretty much the same thing as if I just laughed thinking to myself "Boy, is he/she gonna be screwed, when following that advise."

While you are at it, you guys could go to their houses and arrest them, why not? Maybe dead penalty for the cheaters or Guantanamo and water boarding too, yes.
I think someone is getting insane here, so much torrenting is getting to some people's heads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

No I don't. It's not our job to police the bittorrent "community". This is a forum where people come to chat or whatever.

---

If this was 'just' a forum where people come to chat then there would not be a problem. It is the 'whatever' that is the problem. Cheating is the province of the tracker involved, only they can check the upload stats and check to see whether data is being spoofed, but the scamming and invite selling goes on directly and indirectly here.
The only real threat in the bt world is the banhammer anyway, so sharing IP's and info on repeat offenders who carry on their scams regardless is at least going to worry them. The present situation where the member is banned then he heads off and gets another a/c via proxy only inconveniences the scammer for the month that he is a n00b, wooooo that's a big threat.
I realise that from the forum's point of view that this change of policy would be fatal, it is the trading and bit torrent section which is the busiest section by far of this forum, but the current situation is quite laughable, banning an experienced scammer/invite seller with multiple a/c's via proxy is the equivalent of a smack on the hand with a wet bus ticket.

---

Oh I'd be happy to shut down the trading and invite sections if it were up to me, but it isn't so there you go.

We got along fine without them before, and we'd be fine without them again, but as you say, that's where the majority of the traffic comes from at the moment.

Take them away though, and something else would crop up. It always does...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Detale

As the question says do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers...

---

how do you define scammer and what actions would justify an ip report to tracker staff?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by integral

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barbarossa

No I don't. It's not our job to police the bittorrent "community". This is a forum where people come to chat or whatever.

Enforcing their own rules is the job of the trackers in question.

---

Apparently your opinions differ from other moderators here, since a few are trying to make friends with tracker staff and the community as a whole.

If FST would like to be apart of the bittorrent "community," then FST should help rid their own community of scammers/cheaters/sellers, and help BT trackers do the same.

---

Your "community" is flawed because it is an exclusive community rather than an inclusive one. That is why I don't agree with it.

Perversely, that is also why you attract so many scammers/cheaters.

Ideally, it would be nice to report them all to the relative trackers, but with the typical trackers attitude regarding FST, I don't do many favors. I try to mind my own (FSTs) business. Besides, scammers use disposable emails and typically have dynamic IPs so there isn't much to do anyhow.

I think you should charge them $$$'s for the information, that would really put their nose out of joint. :shifty:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pentomato

While you are at it, you guys could go to their houses and arrest them, why not? Maybe dead penalty for the cheaters or Guantanamo and water boarding too, yes.
I think someone is getting insane here, so much torrenting is getting to some people's heads.

---

i couldnt agree more with you , its Hypocrisy at its best . Some are getting insane with 24/7/365 into torrenting and its community(???!!!?) with all the "z0mG-community!!" shiat and i'll-whoop-those-traders-when-i-meet-them-in-real-life" attitude . half of them "act" tough like Rambo in this forum (hey , who cant on the internet ?) hoping they will be noticed by fellow peers thinking they are a messiah or something and eventually get invited to "high l3v3l sitz0r" (to those kind of fools present in abundance here : You aint fooling anyone , your only fooling yourselves) . These fools really need to smell some fresh air outside .

Downloading illegal stuff worth millions of dollars is cool , but if a person trades an invite , he's worse than a rapist in these foolish people's eyes , heh .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaviouR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pentomato

While you are at it, you guys could go to their houses and arrest them, why not? Maybe dead penalty for the cheaters or Guantanamo and water boarding too, yes.
I think someone is getting insane here, so much torrenting is getting to some people's heads.

---

i couldnt agree more with you , its Hypocrisy at its best . Some are getting insane with 24/7/365 into torrenting and its community(???!!!?) with all the "z0mG-community!!" shiat and i'll-whoop-those-traders-when-i-meet-them-in-real-life" attitude . half of them "act" tough like Rambo in this forum (hey , who cant on the internet ?) hoping they will be noticed by fellow peers thinking they are a messiah or something and eventually get invited to "high l3v3l sitz0r" (to those kind of fools present in abundance here : You aint fooling anyone , your only fooling yourselves) . These fools really need to smell some fresh air outside .

Downloading illegal stuff worth millions of dollars is cool , but if a person trades an invite , he's worse than a rapist in these foolish people's eyes , heh .

---

A lovely if misguided speech from the rabid, with one obvious flaw............ How on earth does it actually pertain to the thread????????? We are talking here about scamming and invite selling not your personal opinion of others in the bt community. If you have an inferiority complex because you are a trader then maybe it is time to take a look at your own values, but that has zero to do with this topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaviouR

i couldnt agree more with you , its Hypocrisy at its best . Some are getting insane with 24/7/365 into torrenting and its community(???!!!?) with all the "z0mG-community!!" shiat and i'll-whoop-those-traders-when-i-meet-them-in-real-life" attitude . half of them "act" tough like Rambo in this forum (hey , who cant on the internet ?) hoping they will be noticed by fellow peers thinking they are a messiah or something and eventually get invited to "high l3v3l sitz0r" (to those kind of fools present in abundance here : You aint fooling anyone , your only fooling yourselves) . These fools really need to smell some fresh air outside .

Downloading illegal stuff worth millions of dollars is cool , but if a person trades an invite , he's worse than a rapist in these foolish people's eyes , heh .

---

A lovely if misguided speech from the rabid, with one obvious flaw............ How on earth does it actually pertain to the thread????????? We are talking here about scamming and invite selling not your personal opinion of others in the bt community. If you have an inferiority complex because you are a trader then maybe it is time to take a look at your own values, but that has zero to do with this topic.

---

Maybe he doesn't only trade, but only uses it as defense.

it's not up to fst to decide what are the deadly sins on bittorrent trackers and which one of them are worth to be reported and which aren't. some trackers may think cheating is the worst, others may think giving away/trading/selling accounts compromises their security even more. they probably don't care much if traders scam each other. all this will most likely lead to a ban on the tracker.

as long as there is a trading/invite section, as long as their are hidden report and middlemen sections which main purpose is to support and protect traders, as long as you distinguish between honest and dishonest rule breakers, there won't be any serious consensus or collaboration between fst and bittorrent sites.

this board makes money. money is made with advertisment and advertisment needs members who click and see it. the more members, the more money, very simple.

as long as the invite section is the main attraction of this forum, everything will be done that members can get what they came here for: get invites to bittorrent sites regardless if site rules are broken or not.

traders, sellers, cheaters, scammers, account giveaways - what's the difference?

how can you tolerate and support one form of rule breaking and condemn the other?

trying to play tracker's advocate for what you think are the worst cases is a pathetic attempt of rehabilitation in my opinion.

fst is an independent forum with its own independent rules. it only happens to benefit from a good called tracker invites, which are a product of other sites and their rules. a company can decide wether their stocks are traded at the stock exchange. unfortunately trackers can't.

either fst repects tracker rules or is an open platform with the possibilty to join those sites in every possible way. a public invite forum and private tracker rules will never go hand in hand.

i suggest fst continues, sticks with its own rules and lets the trackers worry about theirs.

happy scamming, trading and cheating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polarbear

i suggest fst continues, sticks with its own rules and lets the trackers worry about theirs.

happy scamming, trading and cheating.

---

you forgot invite selling............... :blink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polarbear

i suggest fst continues, sticks with its own rules and lets the trackers worry about theirs.

happy scamming, trading and cheating.

---

you forgot invite selling............... :blink:

---

and giveaways...

If a person chooses to be a douche bag (especially with the sole intent on repeating their stupid actions) then they do not deserve to have their privacy respected. Kick 'em out of every community possible!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polarbear

i suggest fst continues, sticks with its own rules and lets the trackers worry about theirs.

happy scamming, trading and cheating.

---

you forgot invite selling............... :blink:

---

and i forgot merry christmas and a happy new year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by puckface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemis

you forgot invite selling............... :blink:

---

and giveaways...

---

yeah, don't worry. they're almost as bad as you. :console:

There needs to be a choice made (in this hypothetical situation)

If someone breaks the rules here (scamming, cheating, selling) they should be banned from here yes no doubt. Should they be reported to trackers... no, since they did not break any tracker rules.

or.

Report these people to the trackers for violations of (for lack of a better term) "moral" shortcomings. But, if you do this, you would have to include any and all "moral shortcomings" to the trackers, these being any violations of trackers' rules (trading, selling, giveaways).

Basically, you cant have it both ways. Either be involved with the trackers or don't. There is no middle ground here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Polarbear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Detale

As the question says do you think FST should share IP's of Scammers...

---

how do you define scammer and what actions would justify an ip report to tracker staff?

---

As I said I don't have a set list yet. This is just to get a feeling of what the members want.

Come on! I see this like somebody showing some kind of interest in doing something good.
All those with good intentions, serious traders included, should support something like that.

After a clear an public criteria about who could be included in that list, I can´t see one only reason for not to try it. It would be a first step for approaching trackers and FST. People complain all the time saying that is a safe place for all that fauna and when something is tried we begin with philosophical crap. Who is against to find and eradicate that cancer?, I can only think in themselves.
Although I can´t see clearly how would FST know who is cheater... but the fact is that here we have seen a lot of them unmasked, mostly due to others users and even staff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Detale

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Polarbear

how do you define scammer and what actions would justify an ip report to tracker staff?

---

As I said I don't have a set list yet. This is just to get a feeling of what the members want.

---

from my understanding a scammer is a trader that didn't meet the trading partner's demand.
it's somehow an account or invite giveaway, with the difference that one of them is a little pissed because he got nothing in return.

now what are you going to report to the tracker?

"there was this one guy who wasn't like fair and scammed this other guy who broke your rules as well, but you're only getting one ip, cause the other guy broke your rules more honest." :blink:

???

I don't agree in there being no middle ground. I am sure that both members here and tracker staff would appreciate if people who are especially bad aren't welcomed back here when banned from sites.

Also I do think that while tracker staff of course would prefer no trading, just making this small improvement would be a sign of good faith.

Kinda like the lesser of two evils.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Polarbear

now what are you going to report to the tracker?

"there was this one guy who wasn't like fair and scammed this other guy who broke your rules as well, but you're only getting one ip, cause the other guy broke your rules more honest." :blink:

???

---

Now don't be ridiculous. You know full well that's not how it works.

In that case the only thing needed is the IP of the scammer as sites keep logs. And that IP would just be for proof that this actually took place. Of course the scammed person gets in trouble as well, but that's just an added bonus.

in theory, it would be very useful if FST would share ip of scammers/cheaters/sellers with tracker staff but in practice, it would probably result in many abuses...
FST staff would have one more power and could make a deliberate "mistake" to make someone banned from all his trackers... who knows ? Don't get me wrong, i don't accuse staff, i just think that everything is possible since it's not their job nor their cause. they're not enough close to trackers staff and too much in contrast with them for being 100% trusted. I doubt that tracker staff would check proofs for every cheaters/scammers/sellers reported so it's definitely a matter of trust.

oh and why fst would give scammers ips to tracker staff while they allow them to restart their dishonnest acts with a new account ? :shifty:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue_Skies

In that case the only thing needed is the IP of the scammer as sites keep logs. And that IP would just be for proof that this actually took place. Of course the scammed person gets in trouble as well, but that's just an added bonus.

---

bingo. and that's exactly the point. reporting a scammer would always mean that the person who got scammed (and traded in the first place) will be known and probably banned as well.

that's why i doubt that this will happen and asked the question what scammers are when included in the poll. :shifty:

did you realise that you automatically have two persons banned (one trader and one scammer) when you report them, detale? i think that would contradict your policy of protecting "innocent" traders that you mentioned recently, wouldn't it? :P

The reason I say that there is no middle ground is that we all know if you trade you should accept that is dangerous and if you get scammed here there are remedies to report the offending party. This is no business of the trackers at all, unless, like I said you are going to report everything to the trackers.

Even though I have traded before, that I am sure is known, the prevailing sentiment around here is that traders and trading are evil... go ahead and shut it down. if breaking the rules here merits reports to trackers then all rule breaking merits reports. Report all the traders, the givers away, and everyone who post trackers names in public. Im just all for treating ALL the rule breakers equally.

Totally agree with Stoi and Barbarossa on the first page, its up to trackers to enforce their own rules, this is just forum so only moderating of forum posts should be done by staff here.

Also if this was a practise of fst to share peoples ip addresses, even though u may say its only for Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers, how could people trust the site anymore. For all people know since u are in the practise of sharing IP's why stop at Scammers/Cheaters/Sellers, u may have deals with certain tracks that u will report people who say bad things about their trackers or give negative reviews about them etc.

Dont no if i explained my point that clearly, but in the end it would save a lot of headache by answering no to the question.

Yes share the IP'S of Scammers/Cheaters & Sellers only.

The person has to prove they are Site owner and pay at least $50.00


Understand that we are a non-profit organization completely supported by you, the members and that you are donating to help keep the site maintained and running. Every little bit counts. we have to pay our bills every month to keep things going we ask that you make a monetary contribution in whatever denomination you'd like.

I voted no as it is none of your business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stoi

hmm Ok.

Scammers = the other persons fault for trading, learn the hard way.

Sellers = you cant sell on here, so how do you know them

Cheaters = how do you know they cheat, surely thats the tracker, and if the tracker wants a global ban, they contact other trackers, not through here though.

I just dont know how this will help the "War" between FST and the trackers.

I am not very comfortable or have got the time for that matter, that if we get a cheat, to pass the details to the staff off here, i may pass it onto other trackers, because they should probably know, but why does FST have to know?

Sorry, dont see the point, unless i am missing something.

Trading is against the rules of most trackers, FST allows trading, unless you do something abotu that, which you wont in a million years, the animosity is still going to be there, doesnt matter what you dress up a perk like.

---

well said like always.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Polarbear

this board makes money. money is made with advertisment and advertisment needs members who click and see it. the more members, the more money, very simple.

---

You brought it up so I felt the need to reply. This forum does not turn a profit. Never has.