Atheists and christmas

The question of whether Atheists celebrate Christmas is a question that I am often asked by people. The question that I am about to answer I am sure will be controversial and I doubt it will make me Mr Popular. Though, I do think that the majority of SearchWarp, from what I have seen, are a very clever bunch and able to listen to other peoples views.Thus, I have confidence that what I have to say will be considered and I will not get the usual: "la, la, la I'm not listening and you're going to hell, muhaha!" Firstly, I should set out what Atheism actually is. In its most basic form atheism is living ones life with out any form of God or supernatural being.Most Atheists look at evidence to make their minds up.For example, the evidence for evolution is huge and the evidence for Intelligent Design is miniscule. Thus Atheists believe in evolution over God. Simple. As. That.

However, should roles be reversed and Intelligent Design had a mountain of evidence (though I am inclined to my own scepticisms of this happening) then I would not be an Atheist and nor would the majority of the science world.Now, what I really want to make clear here is that just because you don't believe in a creator or biblical miracles and so on; it does not mean you reject the entirety of religion. For example,I don't go out and murder people because the Ten Commandments say I should not. Thus, Atheists follow some teachings of the bible. The difference is that Atheists don't follow it because it is in the bible: they realise that killing others is not a moral activity and that if everyone constantly went about killing everyone it would not be good for our survival. In the context of Christmas, Atheists have seen that it has many great aspects: family, love and friendship which, I cannot see anyone in their right mind having an objection to.The only difference is that we do what some people will condemn; and don't bother with the religious side. The most famous Atheist Richard Dawkins celebrates Christmas and even goes out and sings Christmas carols! Mr Dawkins is a fan of much religious music and has no objection to singing a good song: he simply does not believe the "deeper meaning" behind the song. I personally love the music of Ricky Skaggs and I think he is one of the greatest musicians alive.But he is a deeply religious man and reflects that in all of his music.

Here is a link to one of my all time favourite songs:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekdb2iqPRW8 . Who could not like that song? Have you ever herd the term Atheists for Jesus? This sounds like total oxymoron, but if you think about it there is much truth in the statement. Jesus or the scholar that created him (I can't say for certain which), had a lot of good things to say and much of what he taught makes sense.

So, although Atheists reject dogma on every level they would be stupid to ignore every good piece of advice (and I use advice for a reason) in the Bible. The great thing about Atheism, and the reading of the Bible from an Atheist perspective, is that you can pick and choose what you follow and what you don't. For example, I don't much like some of the violence in the Old Testament - see Exodus 34 : 13-17. Thus, I plan to celebrate Christmas this year like all other years: I will have Christmas dinner, send and receive presents, put up a Christmas tree and happily take the day off. Because I follow the evidence and don't believe in God does not mean I don't like having a fun day. Why would I? And what is the problem with that?

Finally, Merry Christmas each and everyone who celebrates Christmas for whatever reason.

They should only celebrate Christmas for presents. That's what I would do if I was an Atheist.

BOT (Back On Topic),

I do have a couple of friends that are Atheists. Some only celebrate Christmas to give/receive presents to/from family members and friends. Others don't celebrate because it has to do with the birth of Jesus Christ and that Santa isn't real... yadda yadda yadda.

Im in the same boat. Atheist aswell. I dont believe in any higher being deciding over my future, i make my own. I believe the world wasnt created in 7 days, it took billions upon billions of years of evolution to get where i am now. But to think about how everything was before time and space existed does boggle the mind. There was nothing? :ermm: Just emptiness?

Eitherway, i do enjoy the biblical story's alot, even when i was a child was always fascinated by them, but i never really believed them.

Anyway i will be celebrating xmas (see what i did there?) with friends and family. Bye

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Originally Posted by sez

The great thing about Atheism, and the reading of the Bible from an Atheist perspective, is that you can pick and choose what you follow and what you don't.

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That is not a habit limited to Atheism

You Atheists are practicing your own official religion, now?

Well, then.

You do know you can do that without a god, don't you?

I must say, it's a novel way to pursue socio-cultural alienation.

Generally people who copy-paste give the source.

Other than that...:no:

"Believe in evolution" - moron.

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Originally Posted by Snee

Generally people who copy-paste give the source.

Other than that...:no:

"Believe in evolution" - moron.

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http://searchwarp.com/swa557144-Why-...-Christmas.htm

I celebrate Christmas because I believe in Santa Clause.:) What! He doesn't exist? Prove it.:whistling

@ sez. Here is a better song for you;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80

I really don't care if Atheists celebrate Christmas or not.

I think when people get offended by someone saying "happy holidays" is as trivial as someone getting offended by someone saying "merry Christmas.

I did see a news report this week that added a new twist to those that complain that people are trying to remove Christ from Christmas.

This guy literally tried to make a point that Christmas IS about Christ and not commercialism. Seems one is not being PC to point it out.

[youtube]j-oTorzvbw0[/youtube]

I admiit I wouldn't like one of my neighbors doing this, but I have to confess I chuckled inside.

Mr. Garrison says Christmas is for everyone, and I believe he's right. While Christmas was originally for Christians, it's commercialization has made it something for everyone, regardless of faith. If you're thinking is to the right on both the religious or non religious spectrum, then Christmas is JUST for Christians. I honestly just think The US is just to lazy to call it something else. Maybe they should pull a Futurama and call it Xmas.

Funny to see the holy rollers insulting the one's that do not believe in god, I wish they could demostrate that god exists, but they can't.

Christianity hijacked the midwinter festival in the first place. Amongst others. That's the most effective way of "converting" a population to a new religion. Originally, most of the "Christian" festivals we celebrate today were Pagan traditions.

They're in no position to complain now that it has been hijacked in turn by Consumerism/Capitalism.

People should celebrate what they want, when they want. That's called freedom.

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Christianity hijacked the midwinter festival in the first place. Amongst others. That's the most effective way of "converting" a population to a new religion. Originally, most of the "Christian" festivals we celebrate today were Pagan traditions.

They're in no position to complain now that it has been hijacked in turn by Consumerism/Capitalism.

People should celebrate what they want, when they want. That's called freedom.

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Who told you that Robert Langdon ;) ? hehe
Christianity "Borrowed" allot of it's beliefs and traditions from other religions uhmm Judaism uhmm Islam is the same...

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Originally Posted by Totti

Who told you that Robert Langdon ;) ? hehe

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Why not, the man's a genius :P

Yes he is I love Dan Brown

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You Atheists are practicing your own official religion, now?

Well, then.

You do know you can do that without a god, don't you?

I must say, it's a novel way to pursue socio-cultural alienation.

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Do you even know what the definition of religion is? Probably not seeing how you say atheists practice religion..

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You Atheists are practicing your own official religion, now?

Well, then.

You do know you can do that without a god, don't you?

I must say, it's a novel way to pursue socio-cultural alienation.

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Do you even know what the definition of religion is? Probably not seeing how you say atheists practice religion..

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There is more than one definition to religion. You are just picking the definition that suits you, to the detriment of all the other definitions.

p.s. Look up the definition in a good dictionary, not the internet.:)

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You Atheists are practicing your own official religion, now?

Well, then.

You do know you can do that without a god, don't you?

I must say, it's a novel way to pursue socio-cultural alienation.

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Do you even know what the definition of religion is? Probably not seeing how you say atheists practice religion..

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When atheism becomes an institutionalized belief system (that is what is described here, after all) it begins to mirror traditional religion, and that's a fact.

If you would like to try to reason your way out of that particular box, feel free.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Do you even know what the definition of religion is? Probably not seeing how you say atheists practice religion..

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There is more than one definition to religion. You are just picking the definition that suits you, to the detriment of all the other definitions.

p.s. Look up the definition in a good dictionary, not the internet.:)

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LOL, love how you didn't provide any source for these "other" definitions of religion. Atheist don't believe in God and religion involves worship of God(s). Atheist trust science. Science is NOT a belief system. It is observable fact.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

It doesn't get any better then merriam-webster. Or is there a better dictionary...lol. I can go all day, keep it comin'...BTW, I'm not atheist!

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Do you even know what the definition of religion is? Probably not seeing how you say atheists practice religion..

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When atheism becomes an institutionalized belief system (that is what is described here, after all) it begins to mirror traditional religion, and that's a fact.

If you would like to try to reason your way out of that particular box, feel free.

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Institutionalized belief system and that's a fact? Please show me how/where atheism mirrors traditional religion.

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by j2k4

When atheism becomes an institutionalized belief system (that is what is described here, after all) it begins to mirror traditional religion, and that's a fact.

If you would like to try to reason your way out of that particular box, feel free.

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Institutionalized belief system and that's a fact? Please show me how/where atheism mirrors traditional religion.

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You are advocating atheism and it's propagation for your purposes just as traditional religion advocates for it's own, while declaiming your rejection of a "God" or "Gods".

If you believe in ath - excuse me, Atheism so fervently, you will soon be organizing, meeting and tithing, all in the name of the "cause" - just like, well, you know the rest.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Institutionalized belief system and that's a fact? Please show me how/where atheism mirrors traditional religion.

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You are advocating atheism and it's propagation for your purposes just as traditional religion advocates for it's own, while declaiming your rejection of a "God" or "Gods".

If you believe in ath - excuse me, Atheism so fervently, you will soon be organizing, meeting and tithing, all in the name of the "cause" - just like, well, you know the rest.

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1st, of all I am not advocating anything (if I am please show me where). If you read my other post you would have known that I am not even atheist. Anyhow I think you misunderstand atheism. How can you believe in atheism? Atheism is just a term used to describe people who do not believe in god (etymology a=no/not ; theism = god). So basically you are saying atheist believe in not believing in god(s), thus making them a religion. Nope, doesn't work that way. If it did, I guess I can make up the "religion" of twirling my finger in the air... That's it, just twirl your finger, that's my religion.

Sorry buddy, religion involves god(s) and/or spirituality

Monotheistic religious folks are r the real atheists, they don't believe in polytheistic (see roman, egyptian) gods!!! I kid, I kid

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

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I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

Where is it written that Atheists have to have faith in science? Where is it written that one has to have religion to believe in God?

One could argue that one is having the God of oneself or oneself as god, but it isn't what I would describe as religion.

edit. to be fair an Atheist wouldn't consider himself as god

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Okay, have it your way; after all, they are the ones who chose the term, and so have the problem.

My point was that they obviously desire to have others share their point-of-view, and so will have to band together (as current religions do) and, um, preach the gospel (sorry) of Atheism for this to occur.

Is a tract still a tract if it is published in the name/cause of Atheism?

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I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

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Are you trying to say that, to the extent we generally regard science as trustworthy, we dare not sully it by trying to square it with the existence of a deity?

Doesn't sound too...inquiring to me, but to each his/her own.

Back to my point:

It looks/sounds to me as if Atheism seeks to organize itself, and to do so on a scale that would require all of the ingredients of religion (funding, fervor and expansionism) except God or What-Have-You.

I mean, they've got a Manifesto, and....no, wait - I'm describing Communism...

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

I think what atheist have an issue with is that we trust science in EVERY part of life. From medical science to science in technology. From you trusting the medicine your doctor gives you to you trusting that when you hit "submit" on your screen it makes it all the way to my screen. Yet when it comes to science trying to explain life, "God did it" and that's the final answer, don't ask any other questions, read the bible!

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Are you trying to say that, to the extent we generally regard science as trustworthy, we dare not sully it by trying to square it with the existence of a deity?

Doesn't sound too...inquiring to me, but to each his/her own.

Back to my point:

It looks/sounds to me as if Atheism seeks to organize itself, and to do so on a scale that would require all of the ingredients of religion (funding, fervor and expansionism) except God or What-Have-You.

I mean, they've got a Manifesto, and....no, wait - I'm describing Communism...

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Saying "ingredients of religion, except or w/o God(s)" is like saying hamburger helper w/o the hamburger (which would be something else entirely, macaroni and cheese)... Atheism is just simply people who do not believe in a diety. Just b/c atheist seek out like-minded individuals does not make them religious. That's just human nature. I seek out other Dallas Cowboys fans, we collect money at our forum for get-togethers, and I try to "convert" my non-Cowboy friends to become Cowboy fans (haven't "converted one yet...lol), does that make the Cowboys a religion? The funding and expansionism you speak of is more to promote science b/c atheism is science/fact based NOT faith based. Atheist are what they are what they are, a group of people who don't believe in god(s). Regardless of what name "they gave themselves", one would have been given to them anyway and we would still be having this discussion.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Where is it written that Atheists have to have faith in science? Where is it written that one has to have religion to believe in God?

One could argue that one is having the God of oneself or oneself as god, but it isn't what I would describe as religion.

edit. to be fair an Atheist wouldn't consider himself as god

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1st of all, "faith in science" is an oxymoron. Simply ask any atheist why don't they believe in god. Basically, there answer will be that there is no proof. The "proof" they speak of is fact based, observable, scientific proof.

And I don't care what dictionary you use as a source, web-based or not, somewhere in the definition of religion you will find "belief in God(s)" or "spirtuality"

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by bigboab

There is more than one definition to religion. You are just picking the definition that suits you, to the detriment of all the other definitions.

p.s. Look up the definition in a good dictionary, not the internet.:)

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LOL, love how you didn't provide any source for these "other" definitions of religion. Atheist don't believe in God and religion involves worship of God(s). Atheist trust science. Science is NOT a belief system. It is observable fact.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

It doesn't get any better then merriam-webster. Or is there a better dictionary...lol. I can go all day, keep it comin'...BTW, I'm not atheist!

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I got my definition from Websters Third. Where there are 7 definitions of religion.

Lets ignore that and go your way. Looking at your source(I said no internet) I picked out definition number four(Only four!);

4 :a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

No mention of a deity in that definition. Religion does not have the monopoly on the word faith.

Thank you, Bob.

There you have it, Cowboy fan(s).

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

LOL, love how you didn't provide any source for these "other" definitions of religion. Atheist don't believe in God and religion involves worship of God(s). Atheist trust science. Science is NOT a belief system. It is observable fact.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

It doesn't get any better then merriam-webster. Or is there a better dictionary...lol. I can go all day, keep it comin'...BTW, I'm not atheist!

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I got my definition from Websters Third. Where there are 7 definitions of religion.

Lets ignore that and go your way. Looking at your source(I said no internet) I picked out definition number four(Only four!);

4 :a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

No mention of a deity in that definition. Religion does not have the monopoly on the word faith.

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So please explain how atheism is a cause..principle... system or belief or faith! BTW, merriam-webster and websters 3rd are the same folks(internet or not).

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Thank you, Bob.

There you have it, Cowboy fan(s).

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He didn't say anything of value. He just highlighted one word in the 4th description of a definition. Atheism is not a cause, in the sense of religion. Thats like saying being taught math in school is a cause in religion. Doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

1st of all, "faith in science" is an oxymoron.

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faith (fhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gifth)n. 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Simply ask any atheist why don't they believe in god. Basically, there answer will be that there is no proof. The "proof" they speak of is fact based, observable, scientific proof.

And I don't care what dictionary you use as a source, web-based or not, somewhere in the definition of religion you will find "belief in God(s)" or "spirtuality"

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I like the saying "we're all Atheists, some just believe in one less God"

Atheists, just like those of faith can be shown all the scientific evidence under the sun and may still not believe what is in front of their eyes if it doesn't suit their viewpoint.

Atheists can believe things that have no scientific basis at all.

I probably erred by using the word faith, it was in response to your post where you said "Atheist trust science". Apparently with your dictionary having faith in and trusting in mean different things. I amend that question to - where is it written that Atheists have trust in science?

While I agrees it's more likely that they would be more trusting in certain scientific theory that contradicts religious theory, what I'm questioning is your assertion that Atheists trust science. One could be an Atheist and think scientific theory is a pile of crap.

I view religion as being worship. A theist can believe that there is a creator, but it's not a deity that requires worship.

For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

faith (fhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gifth)n. 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Simply ask any atheist why don't they believe in god. Basically, there answer will be that there is no proof. The "proof" they speak of is fact based, observable, scientific proof.

And I don't care what dictionary you use as a source, web-based or not, somewhere in the definition of religion you will find "belief in God(s)" or "spirtuality"

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I like the saying "we're all Atheists, some just believe in one less God"

Atheists, just like those of faith can be shown all the scientific evidence under the sun and may still not believe what is in front of their eyes if it doesn't suit their viewpoint.

Atheists can believe things that have no scientific basis at all.

I probably erred by using the word faith, it was in response to your post where you said "Atheist trust science". Apparently with your dictionary having faith in and trusting in mean different things. I amend that question to - where is it written that Atheists have trust in science?

While I agrees it's more likely that they would be more trusting in certain scientific theory that contradicts religious theory, what I'm questioning is your assertion that Atheists trust science. One could be an Atheist and think scientific theory is a pile of crap.

I view religion as being worship. A theist can believe that there is a creator, but it's not a deity that requires worship.

For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe.

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We are talking about religion and faith and as you so pointed out "the dictionary has several different definitions". Atheism is NOT religious in any way.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

So if you mean atheism has faith "in the truth" (from your chosen definition), sure I'll agree with you.

You can disagree if you like, but atheist need "proof". Factual, observable proof.

" For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe."

I know a lot about the washington redskins too, but that doesn't mean I like them... So whats your point?

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

faith (fhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gifth)n. 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.






I like the saying "we're all Atheists, some just believe in one less God"

Atheists, just like those of faith can be shown all the scientific evidence under the sun and may still not believe what is in front of their eyes if it doesn't suit their viewpoint.

Atheists can believe things that have no scientific basis at all.

I probably erred by using the word faith, it was in response to your post where you said "Atheist trust science". Apparently with your dictionary having faith in and trusting in mean different things. I amend that question to - where is it written that Atheists have trust in science?

While I agrees it's more likely that they would be more trusting in certain scientific theory that contradicts religious theory, what I'm questioning is your assertion that Atheists trust science. One could be an Atheist and think scientific theory is a pile of crap.

I view religion as being worship. A theist can believe that there is a creator, but it's not a deity that requires worship.

For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe.

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We are talking about religion and faith and as you so pointed out "the dictionary has several different definitions". Atheism is NOT religious in any way.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

So if you mean atheism has faith "in the truth" (from your chosen definition), sure I'll agree with you.

You can disagree if you like, but atheist need "proof". Factual, observable proof.

" For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe."

I know a lot about the washington redskins too, but that doesn't mean I like them... So whats your point?

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For Chris.. sake. You are still picking out the parts that suit you. There is nobody arguing about your interpretation of religion. We are just saying that there are others.:)

Please excuse any typing errors. It is old age(The keyboard I mean) My birthday is due in about 10 weeks.:whistling

You just picked the parts that suited your argument also. LOL, yeah this has kinda gotten outta hand. The argument that I was originally responding to was that atheism is a religion and all I was trying to say is that I don't understand how he came to that conclusion. We'll just have to agree to disagree...

You are, or at least appear to be, missing my point.

You say Atheist don't believe because they have no proof, however an Atheist can believe in men from mars without proof.

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

I know a lot about the washington redskins too, but that doesn't mean I like them... So whats your point?

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Hardly a comparison.

You are making statements about what Atheists believe or don't believe and why. Apart from the denial of the existence of God there is no qualifying value or reasoning required to be classified as an Atheist. So any statement you make other than they don't believe in any god is pure guesswork and generalization.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

You say Atheist don't believe because they have no proof, however an Atheist can believe in men from mars without proof.

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Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

You say Atheist don't believe because they have no proof, however an Atheist can believe in men from mars without proof.

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Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation

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What about the Moonies. They have a God.

There are hundreds of different religions in this world. Each one thinks that they are the right one. They can't all be correct, then again it is possible that they could all be wrong.

Every person should be left to their own beliefs. If you don't agree with this and interfere with others beliefs then you must be willing to take the flak that will ensue.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

We are talking about religion and faith and as you so pointed out "the dictionary has several different definitions". Atheism is NOT religious in any way.

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

So if you mean atheism has faith "in the truth" (from your chosen definition), sure I'll agree with you.

You can disagree if you like, but atheist need "proof". Factual, observable proof.

" For someone that claims to not be an Atheist you sure seem certain what they do or do not believe."

I know a lot about the washington redskins too, but that doesn't mean I like them... So whats your point?

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For Chris.. sake. You are still picking out the parts that suit you. There is nobody arguing about your interpretation of religion. We are just saying that there are others.:)

Please excuse any typing errors. It is old age(The keyboard I mean) My birthday is due in about 10 weeks.:whistling

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by ugk4life

Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation

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What about the Moonies. They have a God.

There are hundreds of different religions in this world. Each one thinks that they are the right one. They can't all be correct, then again it is possible that they could all be wrong.

Every person should be left to their own beliefs. If you don't agree with this and interfere with others beliefs then you must be willing to take the flak that will ensue.

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Don't know about the moonies but if they have a god they are not atheist (if that is what u r saying). I don't care what you believe. You are entitled to live your life the way u want. You can believe cows lay eggs if you want. That doesn't make it true. You can believe atheism is a religion if that makes u feel better, but that doesn't make it true.