Please help pray for those who suffered in the war
http://img.top81.com.cn/2/112816.jpg
EDIT: changed this to a link, it is rather graphic. NikkiD
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Please help pray for those who suffered in the war
http://img.top81.com.cn/2/112816.jpg
EDIT: changed this to a link, it is rather graphic. NikkiD
It's just sick to post that here.
that pic isnt that bad, but it really didnt affect me at all, guess ive seen too much at rotten.com and bangedup.com.
i agree. u should say something in the title. thats gruesome! :P
how do u know thats even from iraq? that could be some suicide bomb or something.
(yes i see the turban).
I changed the pic to a link, although I feel the pain portrayed, it is rather graphic.
sorry if you found this picture gruesome
I found this picture from another forum, the person who posted this picture
claimed that it is done by the Americans.
However i think what he said is not creditble enough, so I didn't mention it's
American but it's due to war and conflict.
with no background info, its just some random tragedy completely out of context. what was the point in posting this?
if you watch the bbc world news.
you will be shown this picture.
unfortunately the picture is cropped such that the injured leg is not shown...
i am pretty pissed with the way cnn is reporting the news.
bbc is a little better.
but i feel that i am not getting the full unbiased picture most times..
too bad i dunno arabic else the al jazeera might be a good alternative.
btw. there's an english version of the website for al jazeera.. unfortunately it is not online now..
probably taken down by the govt.
so much for freedom of speech.
wow. you're pretty anti-establishment.Quote:
Originally posted by eng60340@25 March 2003 - 23:37
i am pretty pissed with the way cnn is reporting the news.
bbc is a little better.
but i feel that i am not getting the full unbiased picture most times..
too bad i dunno arabic else the al jazeera might be a good alternative.
btw. there's an english version of the website for al jazeera.. unfortunately it is not online now..
probably taken down by the govt.
so much for freedom of speech.
obviously CNN is reporting only what they are allowed to report, we don't really want the iraqi military to know where are troops are going.
and i don't see why you complain, the fact that you can keep tabs on each battle that occurs, and know the outcome of it in a matter of half hours, is a huge leap in reporting comapared to vietnam or something like that.
al jazeera is the most biased news station ever. i can't see how it would be better than CNN <_<
and don't jump to conclusions like "probably taken down by the government" because anybody can translate the al jazeera main page. and if it WAS taken down by the govt., it was probably because they were urging iraqis to fight against the U.S., whereas it would be strategy to take it down.
All news in whatever country is edited to a degree.
I myself try not to watch too much as its very upsetting.
I have never seen such pictures on uk television and I hope it
stays that way.The world is in enough turmoil as it is without innocent
children seeing such graphical images.
That's pretty fucking sick man. Geeze. :o ;) :blink:
What is ??????Quote:
Originally posted by Huh?@27 March 2003 - 00:31
That's pretty fucking sick man. Geeze. :o ;) :blink:
Not your post, the picture. That's pretty sick. :blink: :blink:
That is really gross that is fucked up. that leg thing is damn gross omg u sick fucks.
perhaps you expect war to be
1) US soldiers giving candies to smiling starving iraqi children
2) US putting out oil fires
3) US clearing mines
i would like to point out that NONE of this need to take place if US has been a little more diplomatic.
the truth is.
war is ugly, messy business.
it should be avoided as much as possible.
the way i see it, this war is unjust, illegal and immoral
the iraqis have compromised time and again.
(what ?! you want to check our palaces ? NO ! .. ummm. very well then)
(what ?! you want us to disarm our missiles ? NO ! .. umm very well then)
and etc.
the goal post just keeps shifting with each compromise.
...
Most of the world can see that it is US that is pushing for war.
.. and now they just want the world to see the nice side of war ?
*disgusted *
theres no nice side to war. the us is almost regretting this now. major casualties are comin. tho they cant back out cuz look what it took ta get there. the surrendered soldiers have been let go and are goin back to fight. they dont like saddam, but theyve been invaded. the us wanted it to go quick, but it wont. shit baghdads gonna be demolished completely. more of those pics ta come. (please dont post ne more).
:ph34r:
There is a site on the web that has an English Language version of Al-Jazeera T.V. it's called :Quote:
Originally posted by eng60340@26 March 2003 - 08:37
if you watch the bbc world news.
you will be shown this picture.
unfortunately the picture is cropped such that the injured leg is not shown...
i am pretty pissed with the way cnn is reporting the news.
bbc is a little better.
but i feel that i am not getting the full unbiased picture most times..
too bad i dunno arabic else the al jazeera might be a good alternative.
btw. there's an english version of the website for al jazeera.. unfortunately it is not online now..
probably taken down by the govt.
so much for freedom of speech.
mprofaca.cro.net
If I was any good with a computer I'd post a link, but I've just got in from work and I'm fuckin' knackered!!
I posted this adddress in another thread the other day, it's a massive site 500,000 pages, plus it has excellant links to other news resources. I'd give this site a look if I were you. Hope this helps a bit.
By the way, the posted picture was pretty gory but I've seen worse in my time. Pictures of bulldozers at Auschwitz, Belsen, etc. The Japanese occupation of Manchuria.
I think the coverage of the war on British T.V has been very disappointing, but it's more evenhanded than C.N.N which I catch on satellite. C.N.N seems to only see it from the American point of view. .News should be unbiased, a difficult thing nowadays. :(
It's been a very long time since there's been a long war. In all seriousness, most of you probably don't remember one. Most of what's "known" about war is now from Hollywood movies, video games, and old footage, perhaps to a lesser extent certain books, but they too are falling into disuse.
Lest we forget.
:ninja:
News has never been unbiased. To get an unbiased opinion takes sifting through many different sources, filtering out that bias, and soaking the truths in, in which case you apply your personal bias to it.Quote:
Originally posted by soopaman@27 March 2003 - 09:20
I think the coverage of the war on British T.V has been very disappointing, but it's more evenhanded than C.N.N which I catch on satellite. C.N.N seems to only see it from the American point of view. .News should be unbiased, a difficult thing nowadays. :(
:ninja:
News has never been unbiased. To get an unbiased opinion takes sifting through many different sources, filtering out that bias, and soaking the truths in, in which case you apply your personal bias to it.Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor+27 March 2003 - 09:26--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MagicNakor @ 27 March 2003 - 09:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--soopaman@27 March 2003 - 09:20
I think the coverage of the war on British T.V has been very disappointing, but it's more evenhanded than C.N.N which I catch on satellite. C.N.N seems to only see it from the American point of view. .News should be unbiased, a difficult thing nowadays. :(
:ninja: [/b][/quote]
I did say "should be unbiased" I didn't say it wasn't!!
I do try to read at least 4 Daily newspapers, watch a couple of hours of news a day (both national and international) and read through reams of shit on the net. You are right to say that you should make your own mind up, I agree entirely. Maybe some of the "younger" or "less read" members should consult more than the first image that hits their retina, or at least think about it for a bit!!
:flame:Flame On!!!:flame:
Or if you're called Zardoz spew the first inanities that come into your, for want of a better word, mind. A mind which seems to thrive on provocation and attention!!
Cheers.
:ninja:
I should say that French television is doing this time an excellent job, maybe because the country is not involved in the war. They use sources from both sides, they criticize the images they receive, they put them in the context of the ongoing 'psychological war'.
It's the first time I see them doing their job seriously. If you understand French, you should watch the news on TV5, even if you disagree with the disastrous position of our government.
A misinterpretation then. ;) Since you had said previously news should be unbiased, and that this was difficult in today's era, it suggested that at one point it was unbiased. Good that you read a lot, though. :)Quote:
Originally posted by soopaman@27 March 2003 - 09:44
...I did say "should be unbiased" I didn't say it wasn't!!...
:ninja:
I think that it is very important that especially young people see that war means suffering, that it is not a video game and what the word "casualties" really means.
As a mere figure, they might look as acceptable or unavoidable as we can comprehend or think to comprehend.
As a picture like this, you start to understand what it really means. Another important thing to understand is that soldiers being killed and maimed are also human beings, with families and futures which are destroyed - they are victims too.
As long as we manage to close our eyes to the real face of war we manage to justify it more easily. That of course is why the US media aren't particularly keen on pictures like that and are not showing them, for they feel it would give the wrong message and could undermine the morale and support for the troops - the BBC is a little more balanced and has more trust in the ability of their viewers to form their own opinions.
Some of the arabic stations are trying to balance out what they perceive as lopsided reporting of the western media.
None of the media coverage can really show and give you a feeling for what war is really like. You would have to be there. No picture of a destroyed building can give you an idea of the feelings of people who were next to the building when it exploded who might not have been hit or injured physically, especially if they are children. Read the UNICEF reports.
Memories of WW2 still haunt people who have lived through it, although it happened more than 50 years ago. I know that from personal experience, since I have dealings with many elderly people through my line of work. My mum for instance has been raped as a 14 year old by 12 Russian soldiers and had to flee from her place of birth, never being able to return, her boyfriend has survived Stalingrad and was a POW for 5 years thereafter. He has told me that no movie of Stalingrad can tell you what it feels like if one of your friends is slowly bleeding to death in your arms. That they were on the wrong side doesn't matter. The wounds the war has inflicted on them have never healed completely. War is not troop movements, victories and defeat. It's a human tragedy, created by people who tell us what is unavoidable, necessary and just in their view. It is faceless and abstract as long as manage to keep it that way. For those who have to live through it, it is something else. No-one has asked the "casualties" if they were willing to pay that price for what others think was necessary to procure their freedom.
I hope and pray that the war will be over soon and that everyone makes an effort to understand what is happening without closing their eyes and hearts.
If you want a couple of good, relevant books to read try these:
BioHazard by Ken Alibek
Unholy Babylon by Adel Darwish and Gregory Alexander
BioHazard is written by the former Head of the Soviet Bio Weapons Programme. He says, and I'm paraphrasing here, that after the break-up of the Soviet Union at least a 1/3 of his research scientists went to work for Saddam Hussein. Other than that, the book is so fucking interesting and really quite scary. On a related subject try The Hot Zone by Richard Preston about U.S Bio Weapons research. Another very scary book.
Unholy Babylon is about the Wests support both blatant and covert in the years preceding the Gulf War and after it. Quite thought provoking.
Is there a books section on this Forum? If not, why not? Computers, Music, Games and Films ain't everything!!
:ph34r:
Talking about books and Stalingrad... you should read Vassily Grossman's 'Life and Destiny' (not sure of the English title). It's a very good novel about war & about dictatorial systems.
I don't know what some ppl spect to see, but this is a war. Maybe that censure in the states and manipulated information doesn't allow them to see the full picture. There won't be any doubt to shoot innocent ppl or send a bomb to the market to kill civilians. That's the truth.
Edit: typo
There may be soon. :DQuote:
Originally posted by soopaman@27 March 2003 - 10:45
...Is there a books section on this Forum? If not, why not? Computers, Music, Games and Films ain't everything!!
:ph34r:
:ninja:
i don't expect war to be any of those three, however, aid is being delivered to starving iraqi children <_<Quote:
Originally posted by eng60340@26 March 2003 - 23:47
perhaps you expect war to be
1) US soldiers giving candies to smiling starving iraqi children
2) US putting out oil fires
3) US clearing mines
i would like to point out that NONE of this need to take place if US has been a little more diplomatic.
the truth is.
war is ugly, messy business.
it should be avoided as much as possible.
the way i see it, this war is unjust, illegal and immoral
the iraqis have compromised time and again.
(what ?! you want to check our palaces ? NO ! .. ummm. very well then)
(what ?! you want us to disarm our missiles ? NO ! .. umm very well then)
and etc.
the goal post just keeps shifting with each compromise.
...
Most of the world can see that it is US that is pushing for war.
.. and now they just want the world to see the nice side of war ?
*disgusted *
all of this must take place, as saddam does not provide food to his people, and is extremely stalinist. why did it take so long to let inspectors in? o wait, to hide everything.
there are no iraqis giving their input about the war, let me tell you why. Most of them greet the war, but if they were to say that, they would be publicly executed. a woman who waved to british forces was hung in the middle of the city. there are no protests, because if you disagree with saddam, then you are killed. why do the iraqis have 3000 chemical suits and nerve gas antidotes? surely they aren't expecting the U.S. to use nerve gas, who would use it then? o wait... maybe saddam, who would also use it on his own people.
i'm sure you didn't read all that, but whatever, get a stronger defense and then reply.
edit: o and the english aljazeera site was hacked by hackers in protest of them showing the executed POW'S, the site was replaced with and american flag :lol:
we have hundreds of Iraqi POW'S, but we don't publicly execute them or execute them at all <_<
some points to take note.
i agree.
1) saddam is a dictator
2) saddam used WMD on his people 12+ yrs ago
3) saddam had and still has WMD.
-----
but that doesn't justify a war that could potentially
1) kill many civilians because of guns/missiles
2) kill many civilians because of lack of water/food/hygiene/disease
3) destroy infrastructure of iraq
what has our saddam done in the past 12 years ?
he is in a box. trying his best to take revenge..
but he can't ! cos the US has brought UN inspectors to disrupt his progress!
--
guess who will be paying for the war cost at the end of the day ??
probably lots of american companies will get lucrative transport,reconstruction, oil contracts..
i suspect the iraqi pple will have to pay for the cost of the invasion, rebuilding of infrastructures etc. to "thank" the invaders for liberating them.
this war is an invasion.
the iraqi people do not welcome democracy that comes from the wings of tomahawk missiles !!!!!
..
i assert that there is a better way to deal with iraq rather than war. it's costly (dollars/lives) and also.
1) it does not solve the root cause of american resentment
2) gives precendent for america's to "liberate" ANY nation they don't like
3) will probably result in more terrorism. ( unless america can DESTORY and subjugate ALL rogue nations... more wars? )
1) Civilians are killed publicly on a daily basis for their opposing views of saddam (their children to)Quote:
Originally posted by eng60340@27 March 2003 - 16:30
but that doesn't justify a war that could potentially
1) kill many civilians because of guns/missiles
2) kill many civilians because of lack of water/food/hygiene/disease
3) destroy infrastructure of iraq
what has our saddam done in the past 12 years ?
he is in a box. trying his best to take revenge..
but he can't ! cos the US has brought UN inspectors to disrupt his progress!
--
guess who will be paying for the war cost at the end of the day ??
probably lots of american companies will get lucrative transport,reconstruction, oil contracts..
i suspect the iraqi pple will have to pay for the cost of the invasion, rebuilding of infrastructures etc. to "thank" the invaders for liberating them.
this war is an invasion.
the iraqi people do not welcome democracy that comes from the wings of tomahawk missiles !!!!!
..
i assert that there is a better way to deal with iraq rather than war. it's costly (dollars/lives) and also.
1) it does not solve the root cause of american resentment
2) gives precendent for america's to "liberate" ANY nation they don't like
3) will probably result in more terrorism. ( unless america can DESTORY and subjugate ALL rogue nations... more wars? )
2) if iraqi men do not enter the war, their familes are executed and then they are executed
3) civilians die on a daily basis because of lack of food/water/hygiene/disease
4) there is no infrastructure of iraq.
America is currently trying to take on the responsibility of rebuilding iraq (they actually don't want any help). and since America is the largest economy of the world, this will happen easily. there is an oil for food program where any oil that american companies buy, the money must be used to provide food to the iraqi people.
1) most of the other countries hate America because they are JEALOUS
2) who said america doesn't like iraq? america doesn't like saddam and his army in control of iraq. many countries need liberating to a democracy
3 if you don't do anything, the threat of terrorism is even higher.
atta boy.
=====================================Quote:
Originally posted by kAb@28 March 2003 - 04:42
1) Civilians are killed publicly on a daily basis for their opposing views of saddam (their children to)
2) if iraqi men do not enter the war, their familes are executed and then they are executed
3) civilians die on a daily basis because of lack of food/water/hygiene/disease
4) there is no infrastructure of iraq.
===================================
Iraq is definitely not the only country exercising dictatorship, freeing the iraqis people from the "evil hands" of saddam is a terrible excuse. Because if US is so rightous, maybe Bush should also get rid of North Korea, free Tibet, and overthrow some other mid-east and african governments.
The only reason Iraq is so signaficant to the US is because of the oil, Columbia is a country overrun by drug lords and terrorists, did the US ever give a shit about that?
And from my point of view, other countries hate america not because of jealousy, it's because of america's aggresive foreign policy. And thats what causes hatred and terrorism, people sacrifise their lives to blow up the twin towers, you won't do that unless you are being pushed to the edge of a cliff. (and i never meant what the terrorists did is right)
War is hell! The civilian populations suffer the backlash of combat, the stray bullets, bombs, ect.
An old proverb says: "when a stampede of cattle charges, it is only the grass that suffers"
I too agree our foreign policy is to blame for the anger that these people feel.
bin laden stated that if we back their enemy (israel) we are an enemy as well.
I truly hope this will all be over quickly, but I have feeling it won't be, we could
be fighting pockets of resistance in iraq for months or more! :o
columbia is a scary place, i think that is why the U.S. is avoiding it. what can the U.S. do about it? the whole battle would be gureilla warfare and thousands of americans would be killed
terrorists kill themselves cause they're fuckin retards. they think that they get to fuck virgins in heaven if they kill americans.
That's the point isn't it? The US only attacks where it profits them in some way. In other words, this war is not related to freeing Iraq at all, rather to creating a base for further business with middle-east.Quote:
columbia is a scary place, i think that is why the U.S. is avoiding it. what can the U.S. do about it? the whole battle would be gureilla warfare and thousands of americans would be killed
Yes (All ) religion is a very simplistic way of looking at life. But when are people the most religious? When times are bad, during death, harsh conditions, etc. The Middle-East is a surpressed area of the world. Not only by the dictators running the different countries, but also by the West supporting those dictators. Saddam is by far not the only one, but one of the only who refuses to work with the US. You'll notice that in Bush's 'Axis of Evil' all the governments have some sort of anti-american sentiment.Quote:
terrorists kill themselves cause they're fuckin retards. they think that they get to fuck virgins in heaven if they kill americans.
They are portrayed as dictators, but sanctions (imposed by the West) make it relatively easy to supress one's people. Read Raed's Blog, the account of an Iraqi citizen reflecting on the war and it's reasons. He talks about the effects of sanctions on the Iraqi people.
You may ask on how the West profits on surpressed nations. In order to keep oil-prices low, the resources used (labour) to excravate oil, needs to be as low as possible. By giving people education they will cost more and bring instability to the rest of the world. By giving them an education, they may start to specialise in services, offer competition to Western companies, also not in the interest of the West.
Somebody here mentioned that TV is not showing everything, in order not to protect the Army's position. That is partially correct, but it is also used to keep American support high. Last time I checked the sentiment is 66% for. It needs to remain that high, making Bush's campaign of death legitimate in the eyes of the American people.
Just my 2 cents...
Quote:
why do the iraqis have 3000 chemical suits and nerve gas antidotes? surely they aren't expecting the U.S. to use nerve gas, who would use it then? o wait... maybe saddam, who would also use it on his own people
Probably the same reason EVERY ARMY IN THE WORLD is equiped with NBC suites and Antropine.........and im talking every soldier here.
Even the National Guard in the USA and the TA in UK have them....and probably every other reserve force in the world. Its standard issue gear.
If they only found 3000, out of all those Iraqi's they have captured, it actually shows that the Iraqi's are NOT prepared for chemical/bio attack.
God i hate Black Propaganda; using your logic the Coalition forces MUST be gonna use chemicals...as they have about 250,000 NBC suites and millions of shots of Antropine.
Hey I heard that appx. 60% of frontline soldreds in the US army are black is that true?
That should not have been posted here.Quote:
Originally posted by zhelynd@26 March 2003 - 01:01
Please help pray for those who suffered in the war
http://img.top81.com.cn/2/112816.jpg
EDIT: changed this to a link, it is rather graphic. NikkiD
Its pretty bad. Thanks NiKKiD for changing it to a link.
Its not disturbing though.
Sad but not disturbingly so.
The child is alive in that photo and can be saved.
There was a video though of an afganistan field exocution of a russian soldier that is quite disturbing. hauntingly so.
I wish I had never seen it because the image will stay with me the rest of my life.
An Afganistani was demonstrating how easy it is to kill a man.
He had a young, (18, 19), russian soldier pinned to the ground by holding his foot on the soldiers head.
While another Afgan watched and a third one filmed, he took a razor sharp field knife and easily pushed it down into the side of the soldier's throat behind the jugular and windpipe.
The soldier was begging for his life the whole time and when the knife plunged in, you heard the gurgled sound of a surprised soldier who suddenly realized he would certainly die.
Then the afgan cuts forward through the rest of the windpipe and jugular and the video ends.
There is another video that uses part of that one with the remainder faked, which attempts to show that the original was faked.
If you ever see the original, you will know it was not fake.
The most gruesome movie cannot duplicate this. Even with the best computer animation.
And who would want to?
The video looked to be either a terrorist training video or possibly an attempt to show the enemy what to expect.
In either case, I will never let my son see it, or even mention its existance.
Nor anyone I care about.
I mention it here because I think it is important for the world to know the evil we are up against.
I'd be willing to bet that Bush has seen this video.
Saddam and his regime are part of a dieing mentality in the world.
Not the middle east...The World.
A mentality that believes that this kind of action against human beings is acceptable, ever.
I have said in other posts that All is fair in Love and War.
I don't believe that Should be true, but I think our Military leaders need to stop focusing on whether or not the Baath party is following acceptable conventions, and get on with the war.
Geneva violations are best left for the politicians to deal with.
Soldiers should simply be prepared for anything.
Peace
places like columbia are useless to try to fix. they aren't a threat to us. they don't have nerve gas missiles. places like iraq are a huge threat to us, and we have the chance to stop it.Quote:
Originally posted by Ardor@29 March 2003 - 04:56
That's the point isn't it? The US only attacks where it profits them in some way. In other words, this war is not related to freeing Iraq at all, rather to creating a base for further business with middle-east.
take a look at ivory coast, in the past few months things have gotten crazy. the peace corps were in there, but they were pulled out because of how dangerous things were about to get. now every day is a huge gun battle, and trying to set up a government there would be suicidal.
So in a way, the U.S. liberates countries in the order of their interest. but you can't deny that the iraqi people need liberating.
places like columbia are useless to try to fix. they aren't a threat to us. they don't have nerve gas missiles. places like iraq are a huge threat to us, and we have the chance to stop it.Quote:
Originally posted by kAb+29 March 2003 - 18:19--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kAb @ 29 March 2003 - 18:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ardor@29 March 2003 - 04:56
That's the point isn't it? The US only attacks where it profits them in some way. In other words, this war is not related to freeing Iraq at all, rather to creating a base for further business with middle-east.
take a look at ivory coast, in the past few months things have gotten crazy. the peace corps were in there, but they were pulled out because of how dangerous things were about to get. now every day is a huge gun battle, and trying to set up a government there would be suicidal.
So in a way, the U.S. liberates countries in the order of their interest. but you can't deny that the iraqi people need liberating. [/b][/quote]
Very well said, Kab.
We can't fix all the problems in the world all at once.
But we have to begin somewhere.
Iraq is a good place to start this time.
Things would change alot if more people would worry about the things they can fix and stop wasting time with things that are beyond their ability.
Peace to you dude