Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by SideSwiped
Like I said, I don't agree, I don't have to agree. I am not defending nor condoning their actions. I am a moderate and strive to understand all sides of an issue. I would like to ask them why. What is it truly that upset them about this? And, what is it that truly upsets you?
.
I think this is the crux. This is why people are calling them idiots.
One gets the impression when reading the article that these people have no real idea why they are offended.
When your answer is "It just is.", it means you either haven't bothered to give the situation the intellectual evaluation it merits or you are just knee jerking some pre-programmed brainwashing.
I would like to think that I have a reason I can articulate for holding the opinions that I do.
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
I would like to think that I have a reason I can articulate for holding the opinions that I do.
Just so-
This segues rather neatly into a phrase I hold dear:
The Politics of Reason trumps the Politics of "Feeling".
Re: forgetting your roots
@ hobbes
not going to quote...too many post gone by.... I wasn't trying to steer the thread beyond the original point however I asked the New Mexico question (my state) because it is noticably a bi-lingual state.... which I think is better than just one language ( English being my primary tongue and I hate it when anyone has the attitude "I speak English and that's good enough")
Yes not having the ability to understand to an acceptable level is a drawback, but it is not an excuse. I am weak in Spanish, but I am making the effort to learn so I am at least as good as my bi-lingual neighbours are in English.
You said language is a barrier to communications...I refer to the person that said about English being the second language...one can be just as good a patriot having English as a second language.
My personal view is that it is the belief in what the pledge says that is important...not the language it is said in.
Perhaps I did use an extreme example when I said about different laws...well look at the uproar over roe V wade and individuals states not wanting to be told what to do....look at the problem with gay unions being honoured in different states.... the list goes on and on.
on the "it just is" thing...... The boy and his father gave a reason why they thought it was wrong, so I don't think they gave it no basis (I know you didn't say they didn't), I just disagree with the way they see it.
As I said the USA is made up from immigration from many nations.... I wonder at what point the USA was considered "set in stone"? I believe that in a thousand years the language will be unrecognisable from today's, not because of immigration alone but through urban culture words and evolution. We already see new words with each edition of the dictionary.
One izzle snizzle crib in the low to the deity
Re: forgetting your roots
@sideswiped - i dont feel my likening this father/son to Nazis is really all that unfair
you can call my POV narrow if you wish, that is fair,
this is an open discussion after all, and i take no offense
but the fact is, these two were showing blatant intolerance
towards others' culture/language/etc
(and correct me if i am wrong, but didnt the kid SIT through the Pledge?
kind of hypocritical, wouldnt you think? after all the blabbing about respect?)
it was the same type of intolerance that led to the Holocaust
the same type of intolerance that led to the forming of the Klan
no, these guys didnt hang a black man from a tree,
nor did they march 6 million Jews to the gas chamber,
but put em in that situation, what do you think they would do?
considering the attitude they displayed?
given the right circumstances, i.e. knowing the right/wrong people...
i wouldnt put it past em to be sporting a shwastica(sp?) or a hangman's noose
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
The effectiveness of your harangue is mitigated somewhat by the gratuitous insertion of the emboldened German derivation, B.
Please chasten yourself severely; for me to do it would be a grievous overstep.
Thank you.
Don't get me wrong. I understand there are other influences on our region's language other than Britain and someone gave those nuances an official stamp.
My point is...he understands me and I understand him without me taking English class. The nuances are in a book.
French, German, and English may have similarities in verb conjugation, etc. but they are vastly different (hence their entirely different names :dry: ).
Officialness begone...if anything American English is a dialect of (the Queen's) English given a stamp due to water separation. It ain't tha same as what we did with da metric system or anything. :shifty:
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
@ hobbes
I asked the New Mexico question (my state) because it is noticably a bi-lingual state.... which I think is better than just one language
Why? I am at a complete loss as to how this is a good thing. This is not a tolerance issue, but a communication issue. Would you favor a nation that has 57 different languages?
People can speak all the languages they wish, but I want to be able to travel to every corner of my country and be able to communicate and have some sort of common ground. This is no different than wanting my dollar here in Texas to still be a dollar in Wyoming.
Having 2 official languages has no merit and only promotes separation, not "indivisibility". I can't think of a single reason why 2 official languages has any value.
As far as patriotism is concerned, I cannot fathom a human being who is willing to die for a country for which he hasn't even bothered to learn the language.
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Don't get me wrong. I understand there are other influences on our region's language other than Britain and someone gave those nuances and official stamp.
My point is...he understands me and I understand him without me taking English class. The nuances are in a book.
French, German, and English may have similarities in verb conjugation, etc. but they are vastly different (hence their entirely different names :dry: ).
Officialness begone...if anything American English is a dialect of (the Queen's) English given a stamp due to water separation. It ain't tha same as what we did with da metric system or anything. :shifty:
Yup.
It's all true. :)
Good job; please forgive my portentous and overbearing attempt at humor. :lol:
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
Why? I am at a complete loss as to how this is a good thing. This is not a tolerance issue, but a communication issue. Would you favor a nation that has 57 different languages?
People can speak all the languages they wish, but I want to be able to travel to every corner of my country and be able to communicate and have some sort of common ground. This is no different than wanting my dollar here in Texas to still be a dollar in Wyoming.
Having 2 official languages has no merit and only promotes separation, not "indivisibility". I can't think of a single reason why 2 official languages has any value.
As far as patriotism is concerned, I cannot fathom a human being who is willing to die for a country for which he hasn't even bothered to learn the language.
Hobbes I have rarely observed a point being made with such clarity.
Did you by any chance attend the University of Mizzou? :P
Vid-
I empathize entirely with your urge to assimilate, but you must realize that you apply yourself to that particular task out of nothing more than the goodness of your own heart and a personal rationalization (which is commendable) that you might be a better neighbor and/or community member.
For the state to require it of you or it's agencies by way of accomodation accomplishes nothing, and is, as Hobbes says, a barrier to integration and race relations.
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
Why? I am at a complete loss as to how this is a good thing. This is not a tolerance issue, but a communication issue. Would you favor a nation that has 57 different languages?
You appear to think that New Mexico is promoting speaking one OR the other. What it is doing is promoting the ability to speak both. It just happens that it has a large Latin population so for this state it makes sense in not just unity of citizens but educationaly.....unless you think it is better to know just one language.
Yes there are some that are not up to speed with their English, and having two languages isn't just about the reasons I stated...there is the other great American "ethic"....that is supply and demand.
Unless we speak all languages then your excessive 57 would be unworkable, however more and more the Latino population is growing and instead of saying that they should speak American I see it as an opportunity for Americans to "improve themselves" by learning a second language. It is a two way street that I believe can benefit us all.
I hope this make what I am saying clearer than before
Re: forgetting your roots
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
You appear to think that New Mexico is promoting speaking one OR the other. What it is doing is promoting the ability to speak both. It just happens that it has a large Latin population so for this state it makes sense in not just unity of citizens but educationaly.....unless you think it is better to know just one language.
Yes there are some that are not up to speed with their English, and having two languages isn't just about the reasons I stated...there is the other great American "ethic"....that is supply and demand.
Unless we speak all languages then your excessive 57 would be unworkable, however more and more the Latino population is growing and instead of saying that they should speak American I see it as an opportunity for Americans to "improve themselves" by learning a second language. It is a two way street that I believe can benefit us all.
I hope this make what I am saying clearer than before
By having a dual official language, New Mexico is unequivically promoting speaking one or the other. No doubt. Why learn both when everything is provided in the language you already know.
I don't care how many Hispanic, or Chinese, or whatever move here. The official language is English and if they they want to live here then they should learn our language.
Coming to America is completely elective and we bear no responsibility to change our ways to accomadate them. If we test the limits we could have 1 billion Chinese immigrants, so should we speak Chinese? No, this our country and they need to change their ways, not we ours.
How could learning Spanish benefit me in any way? None, none at all.
America has no responsibility to accomadate based on numbers. The country was founded and chartered in English. Anyone that comes here must not only agree to our philosophy, but speak our official language.
