Obama Administration to File Suit Over Arizona Immigration Law

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

See, you are a birther

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Whattya got, like two tools in your arsenal?

You and the pirate fella - maybe 7 braincells between the two of you.

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youre a tool. youre probably reading orly tates right now, while you rub yourself in cooking oil. youre nuts dude. its kinda scary to think there are a whole bunch of you down south.

And what do have in your arsenal? You havent made ANY points except for that your a racist bigot. You'd be the the jagoff yelling profanities at the little black girl for going to school. You'd be the P.O.S that spit on MLK at Marquette Park. All the stupid shit youre spewing, without giving RATIONAL THOUGHT, or REASON, is making it completely obvious. so prove me wrong, ASS!!!

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Originally Posted by j2k4

C'mon, c'mon.

I have people to do; places to meet...

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Im willing to bet you copulate with an inflatable. :yup:

You are aware others read what you say, I take i?
They read what I say, then they read what you say, and they adjourn, the quality of effort easily decided.

Enjoy your Fourth of July, and have a thought for those who came before you, and why, if you even know.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You are aware others read what you say, I take i?
They read what I say, then they read what you say, and they adjourn, the quality of effort easily decided.

Enjoy your Fourth of July, and have a thought for those who came before you, and why, if you even know.

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yeah, ill go light up a bottlerocket, while you go light up a cross. have a good one!!!!!

Why has this discussion ( description used in only the most generous of terms) focused on the validity (or not) of the papers being asked for instead of the asking itself?

Obviously, any document can be (and probably has been) counterfeited and it's safe to assume that even pirate-person's beloved "biometrics" will be circumvented as the technology becomes more widespread.

Seems to me that the flaw in j2's argument lies in the casual acceptance of randomly being asked to provide ID in the first place.
Isn't it bedrock conservative policy to minimize the intrusion of government into a citizens daily life?
It's damn near socialist for the government to meddle in your health insurance or to limit access/use of a gun but perfectly fine for any random cop to stop you and ask for ID?

Kev has stated repeatedly that he has no problem with this and places the "buy-out" for compliance at $100, although dollars to donuts, he's never had to go through it himself.

Although not directly comparable, my experience with "papers" and having to show them is that it's at best mildly inconvenient, at worst, painful.
I traveled extensively in Europe pre- EU, and border crossings were always a crap shoot.
One bored/incompetent/hateful drone could delay you for hours and any sign of belligerence made the scrutiny even more intense.

If it's OK for any random Arizona Barney Fife to stop and question your identity, wouldn't also be OK- in fact, logical- for Arizona to set up checkpoints on all four of their borders and be able to question everyone who enters or leaves the state?

BTW, pirata:
I can assure you that Orly Taite does nothing for j2.
Rand Paul probably gets him moist though.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Why has this discussion ( description used in only the most generous of terms) focused on the validity (or not) of the papers being asked for instead of the asking itself?

Obviously, any document can be (and probably has been) counterfeited and it's safe to assume that even pirate-person's beloved "biometrics" will be circumvented as the technology becomes more widespread.

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I have no idea how this concern arose; any fool knows we're not there yet, in any case...

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Originally Posted by clocker

Seems to me that the flaw in j2's argument lies in the casual acceptance of randomly being asked to provide ID in the first place.
Isn't it bedrock conservative policy to minimize the intrusion of government into a citizens daily life?
It's damn near socialist for the government to meddle in your health insurance or to limit access/use of a gun but perfectly fine for any random cop to stop you and ask for ID?
Kev has stated repeatedly that he has no problem with this and places the "buy-out" for compliance at $100, although dollars to donuts, he's never had to go through it himself.

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When and if I ever actually see a believable "trend" of this type of thing, I will entertain the question, "Is it worth it?" at that time.

As you liberals are fond of saying, At least we would be trying...something! .

Another thing:

Just what constitutes "being hassled" to the point of fear for one's survival (as it is presented)?

If you mean, 'have I ever gone through a significant period of my life being pulled over regularly", I would say that, between the ages of 15 and perhaps 24 or 25, it happened perhaps 50 or 60 times.

By the same people.

For the same bullshit.

Every time I produced identification and cooperated fully.

I wasn't scarred by anything that happened, and let me tell you, plenty happened.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Although not directly comparable, my experience with "papers" and having to show them is that it's at best mildly inconvenient, at worst, painful.
I traveled extensively in Europe pre- EU, and border crossings were always a crap shoot.
One bored/incompetent/hateful drone could delay you for hours and any sign of belligerence made the scrutiny even more intense.

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How much of it was related to skin color, white-bread?

What was the worst you dealt with, beyond ridiculous inconvenience?

Were you ever beaten?

Given a cavity search?

Sexually assaulted?

Divested of goods (beyond the "touch" of the on-site personnel)?

Those types of things are kind of objectionable.

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Originally Posted by clocker

If it's OK for any random Arizona Barney Fife to stop and question your identity, wouldn't also be OK- in fact, logical- for Arizona to set up checkpoints on all four of their borders and be able to question everyone who enters or leaves the state?

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Oh, yeah...Barney was white - but he was also incompetent, and a minor irritant at best.

So - what about him?

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Originally Posted by clocker

BTW, pirata:
I can assure you that Orly Taite does nothing for j2.
Rand Paul probably gets him moist though.

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Rand Paul is his father's son.

Something is awry.

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Why has this discussion ( description used in only the most generous of terms) focused on the validity (or not) of the papers being asked for instead of the asking itself?

Obviously, any document can be (and probably has been) counterfeited and it's safe to assume that even pirate-person's beloved "biometrics" will be circumvented as the technology becomes more widespread.

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I have no idea how this concern arose; any fool knows we're not there yet, in any case...

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031703115.html

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Originally Posted by j2k4

When and if I ever actually see a believable "trend" of this type of thing, I will entertain the question, "Is it worth it?" at that time.

As you liberals are fond of saying, At least we would be trying...something! .

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How very laid back of you, a "believable trend" of abuse must be visible to you before outrage ensues.
Why wasn't this your attitude about health care reform, which had you frothing at the mouth before it even passed?
At least the Dems were trying "something" then, right?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Another thing:

Just what constitutes "being hassled" to the point of fear for one's survival (as it is presented)?

If you mean, 'have I ever gone through a significant period of my life being pulled over regularly", I would say that, between the ages of 15 and perhaps 24 or 25, it happened perhaps 50 or 60 times.

By the same people.

For the same bullshit.

Every time I produced identification and cooperated fully.

I wasn't scarred by anything that happened, and let me tell you, plenty happened.

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50-60 times?
And that had no effect on you as an adult?
It's OK for the same people who harassed you to harass everyone else because you decided it was no big deal?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

Although not directly comparable, my experience with "papers" and having to show them is that it's at best mildly inconvenient, at worst, painful.
I traveled extensively in Europe pre- EU, and border crossings were always a crap shoot.
One bored/incompetent/hateful drone could delay you for hours and any sign of belligerence made the scrutiny even more intense.

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How much of it was related to skin color, white-bread?How would I know?

What was the worst you dealt with, beyond ridiculous inconvenience?

Were you ever beaten?No.

Given a cavity search?Yes.

Sexually assaulted?No.

Divested of goods (beyond the "touch" of the on-site personnel)?Yes.

Those types of things are kind of objectionable.

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Does two out of six rise to the "objectionable" level or no?
Have I your leave to feel hassled yet?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

If it's OK for any random Arizona Barney Fife to stop and question your identity, wouldn't also be OK- in fact, logical- for Arizona to set up checkpoints on all four of their borders and be able to question everyone who enters or leaves the state?

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Oh, yeah...Barney was white - but he was also incompetent, and a minor irritant at best.

So - what about him?

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Are the Fifes of Arizona allowed bullets for their guns and granted the authority to use them?

Given that Mayberry was not only fictional but also 100% white, it'd be interesting to see Barney's reaction should a pack of Juans saunter down Main Street toward Aunt Bee's place...

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Originally Posted by clocker

a pack of Juans saunter down Main Street toward Aunt Bee's place...

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I can't respond fully because I'm at work, but I will note that, had I typed that passage, I would now be suffering an charge of "outrageous" racism.

Not from me, you wouldn't.

Shouldn't that be "a charge" instead of "an charge"?
Being a screaming racist is no excuse for poor grammar.