The summer 2011 totally legitimate and like official atheist thread, endorsed too

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

and instead of properly refuting my points and "quieting" me down with reason

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Make a point that would warrant analysis and doesn't already defeat itself nor prequels earlier discussion. If I have a differing opinion, I will refute it. You haven't really said anything other than "I have no interest in this" and "refute my point", the latter of which was the only thing worth responding to.

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

One person's posts never diminishes other people's interest in debating

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Sure it can. However I suspected it would be Oleg's, turns out it was yours.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

People are still being killed because of religion. There are other religions in the world who still carry out these 'early dispatches'). I will move on when those cease.

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The institutional and personal belief systems both play a role in these kinds of tragedies. It's what I think pushes the effects in the net negative area (though difficult if not impossible to weigh them in any quantifiable form). It's what pushes me in the direction of antitheism, and I think my apathy and laziness are some of many factors of why I don't do anything about it (aside from running my mouth at my convenience, e.g. on a forum).

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

There are too many elements that have appeared (good and bad) that when examined, look more like plot devices than random occurrences, or entropy. I am trying to honestly evaluate what I have experienced, and determine whether, or not, there may be more than I can fully understand.

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Sounds like you're in a search for commonalities, without knowing whether they even exist. Don't forget to take a step back and share your story with those you know, sometimes it just takes an alternate perspective to start working towards some clarity. You'll eventually collect those anyway and your hindsight will prove to have a better focus.

I used to think the universe (in its entirety) worked against me when I was young and believed in supernatural forces. When I look back on it now, it was impossible for me to have determined why everything seemed that way. In the end though, it seems that all coincidences share some link, almost like they're complementary.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

There are too many elements that have appeared (good and bad) that when examined, look more like plot devices than random occurrences, or entropy. I am trying to honestly evaluate what I have experienced, and determine whether, or not, there may be more than I can fully understand.

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Sounds like you're in a search for commonalities, without knowing whether they even exist. Don't forget to take a step back and share your story with those you know, sometimes it just takes an alternate perspective to start working towards some clarity. You'll eventually collect those anyway and your hindsight will prove to have a better focus.

I used to think the universe (in its entirety) worked against me when I was young and believed in supernatural forces. When I look back on it now, it was impossible for me to have determined why everything seemed that way. In the end though, it seems that all coincidences share some link, almost like they're complementary.

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Two cliches seem appropriate to this discussion:
-Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
-Shit happens

Both the above are basically populist expressions of Occam's Razor, which states that the simplest explanation that covers circumstances is usually correct.
Examine your past through this perspective and see if supernatural explanations are still required.

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Originally Posted by clocker

the simplest explanation that covers circumstances is usually correct.
Examine your past through this perspective and see if supernatural explanations are still required.

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Who's a what's a now? I feel a disconnect between what I said and what it appears you interpreted. The point I was making was this, supernatural explanations do not hold weight in hindsight even though they felt like the obvious reason at the time. I was young, so it was a combination of not understanding the environment around me in addition to information being withheld from me as a child. When I revisit those memories, it's a lot more clear and the supernatural argument holds no merit, and even though the factors were mostly coincidental, they all were made more likely by consequence of poverty, race, egotistical people, the law, etc. I know I describe it very vaguely, but I don't like to reveal too much about my personal history.

I think much of my experience and maturation reflects society's movement towards atheism. As we advance our knowledge scientifically and hone our philosophical perspectives, the incentives to believe in the supernatural fade over time. Even without that historical perspective of trending, if you look at 1000 bright minds vs 1000 dull minds at any point in time, the group that will have the higher percentage of atheistic adoption will be the brighter minds. So the case I make is this, if deities were these superior beings, why would those who reside closer to their intellect have a tendency to disavow the notion of their existence? I doubt that a significant cause of that can be attributed to narcissism.

Throughout history, man has understood that the most effective way to convince others to adopt your opinions/beliefs is NOT to enlighten them using reasoning, but to snuff dissenting theories into silence. This is part of why so many books were burned and people were killed in the past. If your argument gains followers by suppression of knowledge, it's hardly a reasonable argument. It's becoming more difficult to hide information these days, and I believe that is to humanity's benefit. We have entered the age of information, and the primary hindrances are not book burning, but internet censorship by firewalls and shutdowns.

@clocker I seemed to have veered from my the intent of my original reply, but I was inspired to bash out this narrative. So don't take it all as a direct response to you.

The disconnect is because I was primarily responding to megabyteme.

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Originally Posted by clocker

The disconnect is because I was primarily responding to megabyteme.

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Aha, makes sense

Hey, why is a response to me always a "disconnect"? :angry:



Just kidding, but I don't have time, currently, to discuss your points. Thanks guys!

*EDIT*

Actually didn't want to be productive, anyway...

I suppose it could be said that I am simply willing to explore the dialectic at this point in my life. I grew up without religion, and was very much an admitted atheist before it became cool to be so online. Actually, this was before online existed.

Do I need to find mystical explanations? No. Have the vast number of people I respect (many who have earned their Master's, or PhD's) had inclinations towards, or strong beliefs in God? Yes. Do these individuals lead healthy, happy lives? TBH, I've seen enough dysfunction to last me several lives, so my sample would be VASTLY skewed here- I do not have interest in the downtrodden, or unhappy, anymore.

I do not need to pray for anything except the health and happiness of my family and friends. Any god coming to the party now has a relatively easy job in "helping" us maintain that.

As for explaining events of my life... I am all for simple. Simple is great. However, how can I look for something that is greater than myself, perhaps outside my ability to comprehend, if I remain focused on "simple"?

All I am doing is opening up the realm of possibility for something decidedly good.

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Hey, why is a response to me always a "disconnect"? :angry:

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Obvious because your comments are always irrelevant

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Just kidding

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Me too

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

and was very much an admitted atheist before it became cool to be so online

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Is this official now? I've been waiting to be considered cool.

Actually, since we can morph ourselves at will and hide behind any personality we wish, online reputation doesn't carry too much weight for me. I hardly think anything of what people think of me in physical life, let alone online. Anyways, it's still received as a dick move to make atheistic comments in our physical lives, at least where I live. For instance, if someone asks if you will pray for them or something, the response "Why? God doesn't exist," is met with defensive hostility. English atheists don't have much to say as a replacement for "god bless you" when someone sneezes or such, so I have to resort to another language (if I say anything at all) since "excuse you" and "shut the fuck up" don't seem appropriate (well most of the time).

So what I'm getting at is that many atheists are surrounded by family, friends, coworkers, bosses, etc. that will be offended by your views, and the internet seems to be the safest place to open up your thoughts without alienating yourself. I am fortunate to not have to worry about that anymore in reality, as I've already alienated almost all of the serious theists I knew. I seem to be in the process of alienating some more, so I am apparently lacking some kind of outlet.