Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
I never said ignore stats. I said stats don't always equal proper solution.
Your answer is get rid of all guns except I guess law enforcement.
Mine is tighten gun laws.
Your stats don't conclude either solution.
Mine just happens to be more feasible and not a pipe dream. :)
I believe like you do, that it is a pipe dream and that we should tighten guns laws.
My interest in this thread stems from my interest in why it does work in the UK and why it won't work here.
What are these variable that make our society unique.
I think that is the next question.
But I agree with you that outlawing guns in the US is great on paper, but would not work, today. Perhaps in the future, but definitely not now.
A key problem that needs to be addressed first is Americas infatuation with guns and these "Red Dawn" fantasies so many people have. Good ole' boys working together to thwart their oppressive government or the Commies.
Also we have significant problems related to race and race equality in this country. I think that the attitude of being helpless to succeed and feeling that society is not giving one a fair shake, leads to desperation.
I have been in situation where looking at someone the wrong way lead to an almost life or death situation. The black guy refused to back down, he was willing to take this to death. That is how he earned respect in his world. The white guy had to back down and apologise. The black guy clearly didn't see that as a choice.
I really can't get in to this as I would like as I need to go to work, but I would be interested in knowing why people think it won't work here, presently.
Sometimes your post remind me of "Your America" by Living Colour. One country, 2 distinct and separate Americas.
I look at the T.V.
Your America's doing well
I look out the window
My America's catching hell
I just want to know which way do I go to get to your America?
I just want to know which way do I go to get to your America?
I change the channel
Your America's doing fine
I read the headlines
My America's doing time
I just want to know which way do I go to get to your America?
I just want to know which way do I go to get to your America?
Go west young, go west young man
Don't want to crossover
But how do I keep from going under?
Where is my picket fence?
My long, tall glass of lemonade?
Where is my VCR, my stereo, my T.V. show?
I look at the T.V.
I don't see your America
I look out the window
I don't see your America
I want to know how to get to your America
I want to know how to get to your America
America
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
I don't think it can be unequivocally proven since comparisons are fraught with difficulties but wrt the second sentence, it would only no longer be necessary to carry it out if it was a deterrent to 100% of the populous. If it was merely a deterrent to 99.999% of the population then it would still be carried out.
If yours was the case this discussion would never have risen. My point is, go to Saudi Arabia or Iran on a Friday. If you go anywhere near the public square and let it be known that you are a Westerner you will be pushed to the front of the crowd to see a public execution. This is the crux of my point. Surely if it is a deterrent then puiblic execution would be the best way to demonstate the 'deterrent'. It is not working in Islamic states. Drug trafficking is a Capital Offence in Singapore, yet people are continually committing the offence.
Maybe the decision on capital punishment should be left to the relatives of the victim. I believe this is the case in some middle eastern countries. It would definately take the pressure of the jurors.
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
My interest in this thread stems from my interest in why it does work in the UK and why it won't work here.
What are these variable that make our society unique.
I think that is the next question.
But I agree with you that outlawing guns in the US is great on paper, but would not work, today. Perhaps in the future, but definitely not now.
A key problem that needs to be addressed first is Americas infatuation with guns and these "Red Dawn" fantasies so many people have. Good ole' boys working together to thwart their oppressive government or the Commies.
Also we have significant problems related to race and race equality in this country. I think that the attitude of being helpless to succeed and feeling that society is not giving one a fair shake, leads to desperation.
I have been in situation where looking at someone the wrong way lead to an almost life or death situation. The black guy refused to back down, he was willing to take this to death. That is how he earned respect in his world. The white guy had to back down and apologise. The black guy clearly didn't see that as a choice.
We have another winner.
Without me going into details, I have always said that the dynamic of our countries (UK, USA, Sweden) are entirely different.
I grew up in a violent area but as a youngster, knew about many people getting shot. It was always about being tough, physically and mentally.
I get a little older....say something off to me you get a punch in the jaw and made you think that if you said something else that I would stomp the shit out of you.
This is why I made the DisneyWorld comments earlier.
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
If yours was the case this discussion would never have risen. My point is, go to Saudi Arabia or Iran on a Friday. If you go anywhere near the public square and let it be known that you are a Westerner you will be pushed to the front of the crowd to see a public execution. This is the crux of my point. Surely if it is a deterrent then puiblic execution would be the best way to demonstate the 'deterrent'. It is not working in Islamic states. Drug trafficking is a Capital Offence in Singapore, yet people are continually committing the offence.
Maybe the decision on capital punishment should be left to the relatives of the victim. I believe this is the case in some middle eastern countries. It would definately take the pressure of the jurors.
Sorry boab but it's hard for me to say the obvious sometimes.
I see many folks give the obvious answer to many things and instead I like folks to figure it out.
All deterrents don't work for everyone.
Sometimes I think people avoid the obvious answer just to stick to their guns about their point.
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
If yours was the case this discussion would never have risen. My point is, go to Saudi Arabia or Iran on a Friday. If you go anywhere near the public square and let it be known that you are a Westerner you will be pushed to the front of the crowd to see a public execution. This is the crux of my point. Surely if it is a deterrent then puiblic execution would be the best way to demonstate the 'deterrent'. It is not working in Islamic states. Drug trafficking is a Capital Offence in Singapore, yet people are continually committing the offence.
Maybe the decision on capital punishment should be left to the relatives of the victim. I believe this is the case in some middle eastern countries. It would definately take the pressure of the jurors.
I didn't say my figure was the case, I used it to demonstrate a point.
You said that it wasn't a deterrent because the punishment still happens, I said that isn't so. I tried to make it clear that we're not dealing with absolutes.
The question isn't whether it's a deterrent or not - because it plainly is to some. More pertinent to the discussion is whether it's more of a deterrent than life imprisonment without parole.
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Sometimes I think people avoid the obvious answer just to stick to their guns about their point.
Exactly. I agree completely. I think everyone in here should say that. :lol:
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
The question isn't whether it's a deterrent or not - because it plainly is to some. More pertinent to the discussion is whether it's more of a deterrent than life imprisonment without parole.
Luckily we have an assortment of flavors to choose from. :)
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by busy
Sometimes I think people avoid the obvious answer just to stick to their guns about their point.
You mean like when people say they don't have a fear of burglars when they have six guns and a munitions dump in their laundry room ;)
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
The question isn't whether it's a deterrent or not - because it plainly is to some. More pertinent to the discussion is whether it's more of a deterrent than life imprisonment without parole.
Luckily we have an assortment of flavors to choose from. :)
Tbh, that doesn't matter to me. Sometimes a price is just too high, no matter what good becomes of it.
I think taking a life is one of those things ... however, the discussion seems to be moving away from that so I thought I'd pitch in :ermm:
Re: why not death penalty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
You mean like when people say they don't have a fear of burglars when they have six guns and a munitions dump in their laundry room ;)
I was really waiting for that. :shifty:
tbh I really don't worry about itnow.
At the time of preparation, ya damn skippy. ;)
Some fear can keep you alive.
