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If you intend to discuss topics in this forum Calvarian, you should first check your facts, stupid mistakes like this ...
... could easily have been avoided with a simple Google, as in ...Quote:
There are hundreds of mosques across America, but not a single church in Iran.
The Catholic Church in Iran
As I said before, your hatred does not make good debating.
:)
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Given, most of those people believe in fictitious gods, but the point remains that atheists are in the vast MINORITY.
How arrogant.
PROOVE that they believe in a fictitious god, and that you do not.
Its the attitude of people like you that CAUSE religious wars.
As to your pointing at all the trouble spots of the world eg Gaza, West Bank.....why dont you point out where the Islamic people are the AGGRESSORS in these areas?
By the way....
Which religion does the ONLY country in the world to make a habit of using NBC weapons believe in?
And as for the rediculous statement that "There are no churches in Iran..."
Well here are the address' and phone numbers of a couple of those non-existant places...
St. George's Cathedral
Reverend Father Yousef Rashidi
Reverend Father Ashur Tamraz
No. 65 Sa'ed Agha Balazadeh St.
South Karagar Avenue
Tehran 13337 IRAN
Phone: + (98-21) 542-406
Fax: + (98-21) 545-171
St. Mary's Cathedral
V. Rev. Cor-bishop Domara Benjamin
No. 121 Babakhanloo Brothers Avenue
Sepah Square - Tehran
IRAN
Office: + (98-21) 768-080
Fax: + (98-21) 545-171
St. Mary's Church
Very Rev. Archdeacon Aprim Mar Younan
Reverend Father Daryavosh Azizian
No. 37 South Qodus Avenue
Urmia - W. Azarbaijan
IRAN
Phone: + (98-441) 222-259
Fax: + (98-21) 545-171
Atheists.... superiority, it has been in my experience that a great number of religious people do think they are suprior, more so than athiests.Quote:
Originally posted by Calvarian2003@2 October 2003 - 07:56
It never ceases to amaze me how atheists immediately lay claim to a sense of superiority over me upon learning of my religious beliefs, even though a great number of them are so poorly informed on the subject or can't even pass a high school chemistry class. Pathetic.
Yes some will be poorly informed as are a lot of religious people, is the proportion of athiests that are uninformed greater than the proportion of religious people that are uninformed I think not. Chemistry now what that has to do with spiritual knowledge I have no idea, but again yes some will have failed chemisty as will some who are religious, your points here are PATHETIC!
I have never heard any sane person atheist or otherwise say that they ARE God, & if you are to day that it is an absolout that God exists then doesn't that mean that YOU must be God?Quote:
Here is a fantastic quote which every atheist should take heed of:
"In order to make a statement such as 'there is no gold in China', one must know EVERYTHING there is to know about China and its culture, landscape, and people: whether there is gold in any single river, whether any of the millions of people there own one speck of gold jewellery, etc. It is quite nearly impossible to know all these facts; so one cannot reasonably make the assumption that there is no gold in China. However, one can easily make the claim that there IS gold in China. The same thing goes with the existence of God. One must know everything about the universe and it's creation - and believe me, that's a lot of knowledge you must have! To deny the existence of God is to claim, essentially, that YOU are God, and know every single detail of the universe in order to claim that nowhere in the entire universe does God exist."
Your religious teachings are seemed as bullying to some, being bullied into having to follow a religion, now I may think you are arrogant because you think you know more than me, when of course that is untrue.Quote:
And considering that most of the atheists I talk to haven't even reached their twenties, just illustrates the disgusting pride and arrogance of such people. In short, 'Billy Dean' if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and your antagonistic bullying is childish to the extreme.
If you've never heard or spoken to an athiest that hasn't reached their twenties then I suggest you go out into the big wide world & meet more people you WILL find that people who are atheist & are intellectual exist.
PLUR
It is best to avoid generalisations if at all possible. All atheists are this .... all Christians are that .... all Muslims are the other ....
I think it is highly unlikely that these things are ever true. At most they are based on the limited number of people of said description that the poster has met. More likely they are based on their own prejudice.
All generalists are wrong all of the time.
gen·er·al·ist
One who has broad general knowledge and skills in several areas.
JPaul
Are you sure??Quote:
All generalists are wrong all of the time.
:)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now I just know that everyone, including you, knew I was just making a very bad joke at my own expense.
Here is a fantastic quote which every atheist should take heed of:
"In order to make a statement such as 'there is no gold in China', one must know EVERYTHING there is to know about China and its culture, landscape, and people: whether there is gold in any single river, whether any of the millions of people there own one speck of gold jewellery, etc. It is quite nearly impossible to know all these facts; so one cannot reasonably make the assumption that there is no gold in China. However, one can easily make the claim that there IS gold in China. The same thing goes with the existence of God. One must know everything about the universe and it's creation - and believe me, that's a lot of knowledge you must have!and know every single detail of the universe in order to claim that nowhere in the entire universe does God exist."Quote:
To deny the existence of God is to claim, essentially, that YOU are God,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is an interesting statement, ultimately it could be true!
That logic is flawed.Quote:
Originally posted by nigel123@3 October 2003 - 07:01
Here is a fantastic quote which every atheist should take heed of:
"In order to make a statement such as 'there is no gold in China', one must know EVERYTHING there is to know about China and its culture, landscape, and people: whether there is gold in any single river, whether any of the millions of people there own one speck of gold jewellery, etc. It is quite nearly impossible to know all these facts; so one cannot reasonably make the assumption that there is no gold in China. However, one can easily make the claim that there IS gold in China. The same thing goes with the existence of God. One must know everything about the universe and it's creation - and believe me, that's a lot of knowledge you must have!and know every single detail of the universe in order to claim that nowhere in the entire universe does God exist."Quote:
To deny the existence of God is to claim, essentially, that YOU are God,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is an interesting statement, ultimately it could be true!
Since we know that gold exists, the statements about gold being found/not found in China are true. But if someone declares that he believes there is a new element (lets call it blobbium) without any proof, and another person states that there is no blobbium in China, it is not reasonable to state that you need to know everything about China in order to make that statement, since there has been no proof that blobbium anywhere. If blobbium does not exist, the statement 'there is no blobbium in China' is merely a null statement. However, showing that there is blobbium in China also proves that blobbium exists.
Non-reversible logic is often used to 'prove' the existence of God, but when examined properly we always find that without other proof these are null statements, and of course no other proof is forthcoming.
Edit: typo
Simply you are saying that one that says that there is 'blobbium' exists must have the possibly harder challenge of first giving some proof that there is a such thing as 'blobbium'. This point being related to the idea of God can be applied because of everything around you - the trees, the bird that lands in that tree, and the solar system that contains the tree's planet - those that believe that God exist also believe that God made everything. You are debating from your perspective which is not how debates are won - i'm not dissing you er anything because i'm sure i've done that a lot too - we need to find a two point perspective where you who doesn't believe in God and I who believe in God can come together and debate about.Quote:
That logic is flawed.
Since we know that gold exists, the statements about gold being found/not found in China are true. But if someone declares that he believes there is a new element (lets call it blobbium) without any proof, and another person states that there is no blobbium in China, it is not reasonable to state that you need to know everything about China in order to make that statement, since there has been no proof that blobbium anywhere. If blobbium does not exist, the statement 'there is no blobbium in China' is merely a null statement. However, showing that there is blobbium in China also proves that blobbium exists.
So let's start here:
How do you think the world came to be? A big bang- i'll play along - where did the original cluster of atoms come from?
Gases came together forming the world and all living things evolved from a few cells over a super long time - my question can still remain the same- where did the gases come from - or where did those cells come from and was it just coincidence that the enviornment was at the right effects for replication / mutation to occur? Even a theory such as aliens created us and farm us every million years still presents the question of where did the aliens and all this.... stuff come from? I don't expect you to know exactly how the coming of everything happened - i don't either, but when i wonder where everything came from initially i think of God. The only answer i can come up with is God - a being that has always been - if he hadn't always been i would ask myself where did he come from. That issue of God being / not being constrained by time is another issue i can talk about later. But just ask yourself where you think everything came from? Let me know if that questions isn't equal from your perspective. I don't think i slipped any improper questions.
And for the name calling that's going on in this forum - there's no need you're not going to get anywhere by denouncing who you think of as your 'opposition' (what other word could i have used there?) - just settle down - when someone posts something that upsets you - first of all don't freak out and decare it an outrage that you be insulted. You don't know them - it should have no effect on you what they think about you. You can respond to that person and simply let them know to tone it down a bit if they insulted you, telling them why, and how it was not needed. I'm just tired of looking at this forum that should be filled with intelligent convos about religion, God or no God, etc and instead it's been filled with mud slinging - We're all people that can carry on pleasant conversations - why practice it? There's no reason.
Your friend,
Strutzy3
Strutzy3,
Your approach is quite refreshing. We are not here to win debate points, we are here to understand how we came to be.
I think every agnostic would love for God to exist, we just feel that religions are a product of man.
The ultimate sticking point is this: In creating God we must create something that is more complex than the universe we find ourselves in. So how is it useful to create something more complex to explain how we have come to be?
In addition, why should the nanosecond we spend on Earth, in relation to eternity, determine forever our fates? We are not all born to loving parents and good role models. What happens to those who die before they gain a perspective.
I spent 5, 6 week summer terms with fundamental Christians. I learned from them the concept of "I'm third". God is first, others are second and what I want third.
As a philosphy I embraced it, but as for Christianity, I never believed, even as a child.