U.S. Constitution and Original Intent/Informational

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

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Originally Posted by j2k4

You should read a book called Founding Brothers by Joseph Ellis.

Learn something, instead of thinking and posting...shit. ;)

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I've already read about what you are talking about....a while ago. I know about the organizations that many were involved in that were about ending slavery.

Yet many of those still owned slaves. Figure that.

Then even after slavery was abolished blacks still were treated as fifth-class for decades. Amazing.

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Oh, then obviously the Founders were Pro-Slavery, through-and-through.

I'll bet the very idea that they were considering doing away with slaves is a concoction of the Bush administration, built upon similar myths propagated during the Reagan years.

I'll just bet.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

I've already read about what you are talking about....a while ago. I know about the organizations that many were involved in that were about ending slavery.

Yet many of those still owned slaves. Figure that.

Then even after slavery was abolished blacks still were treated as fifth-class for decades. Amazing.

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Oh, then obviously the Founders were Pro-Slavery, through-and-through.

I'll bet the very idea that they were considering doing away with slaves is a concoction of the Bush administration, built upon similar myths propagated during the Reagan years.

I'll just bet.

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:blink: Then you're obviously an idiot.

J2K4
Do you read lewrockwell.com?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

What it came down to was, outlaw slavery and the new nation dies aborning, or cede the issue of slavery, gain a concensus, and give the nation a fighting chance against British and French resistance.

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In short and not fannying about, the continued existence of slavery was not considered enough of an issue to be a deal breaker. That is the foundation on which your United States is built.

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Originally Posted by Chip Monk

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Originally Posted by j2k4

What it came down to was, outlaw slavery and the new nation dies aborning, or cede the issue of slavery, gain a concensus, and give the nation a fighting chance against British and French resistance.

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In short and not fannying about, the continued existence of slavery was not considered enough of an issue to be a deal breaker. That is the foundation on which your United States is built.

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No, that is precisely backwards.

The Founders weighed one against the other, and decided to opt for creating a nation and abiding slavery for the time being rather than severely compromising the chance for success by making slavery a focal point at that particular time.

If emancipation wasn't an issue, it wouldn't figure so prominently in the historical recollection, would it?

It seems Reese's column doesn't figure too prominently just now, either...:dry:

A number of the founding fathers were slave owners, but slavery was not introduced by the founders.
That said I can see the thought behind saying that because some were slave owners and that slavery wasn't abolished "at that moment" that they were pro slavery.
It took a federal act to end it and if it were not for federalisation it probably would have continued for many more generations.

As to the founders "intentions" I often feel that there is a deal of personal bias used when that judgement is made. If we can't understand the intentions of todays government without misrepresentation depending on which side they are on, how can we say for sure what the founders intended except when they were specific...eg. two thirds means two thirds.
Of course there is one part in the article missing when it comes to intent - The constitution may be amended - Doesn't this suggest that the founding fathers didn't intend to have their "rules" set in stone and that they intended future generations to change things?

"We the people" didn't include those that were considered less than a person.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Yes, that is precisely correct.

The Founders weighed one against the other, and decided to opt for creating a nation by it's continued use of slavery for the time being rather than severely compromising the chance for success by making slavery a focal point at that particular time.

If emancipation wasn't an issue eventually, it wouldn't figure so prominently in the historical recollection, would it?

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Uh yeah, it's kinda impossible to neglect what happened.

Surely you must understand that, unfortunately enough, slavery was part of that society in that moment in time. Taking it away brutally would have made the country collapse into itself.

I'm not approving of the notion of slavery but maybe it was a necessary evil...

Crude comparison would be to take away cars in todays world without a replacement.

[disingenuous pretense to literalism]If The Founders had intended The Constitution to forbid slavery, to guarantee the freedom of visual/musical/electronic expression, or to allow Presidents to wage undeclared wars, they'd have put it in The Constitution. Let's not attribute the contents of diaries or debates to the document as finally written, where an Amendment would more easily & properly suffice.[/disingenuous pretense to literalism]