Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaxOverlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggles
There is more of a street political culture in France and some other European countries this is true :) However, with regards civilisation one might argue that this is in the eye of the beholder. Despite the odd rock or two thrown and some street ballet between police and protestors were there serious injuries? One might find that in the same period more people died in casual street crime in the US than in France with all her riots and crime. Is this civilisation and progress? Also, regarding conspiracies of the elite, I thought this had reached near industrial proportions in the US. I recall having near neural meltdown trying to follow the 9/11 conspiracy theories espouced by one of your countrymen on another board.
I will most surprised if following the emotion of the election announcement the French do not settle down very quickly to get on with the democratic process.
First off you can't compare the actions of a people living in a free society of 300 million who do things because of their own individual "problems" with a mob-rule mentality of a political persuasion acting out with rocks and firebombs and overturning cars.
The difference is between like-minded people acting out of disgust for what they perceive as injustices by the political system and a single individual acting out against society.
As for the 9/11 people. These are fabrications by people who have no facts to back up their charges. To compare a few "oddballs" who think their own government pre-planned and killed 3000 of its own citizens to a band of miscreants torching and ravaging their own cities is a little off...no?
It wasn't my intention to compare rioters with conspiracy theorists. I was rather comparing US/French dysfunctional social behaviour and political conspiracies as two separate items. I thought you had kept these separate in your original piece but this would appear to be an error on my part. With regards the former, the motivation of the two are of course quite different. One represents a collective disenchantment whereas the other is individual and self centred. Riots can be exceptionally destructive - but the riots in France were not of that order. The French democratic process is robust enough to shrug off small emotional outbursts. Indeed with turn outs of 85% the French democratic process has much to say to both the UK and the US.
As to the facts to back up conspiracy charges, there was no end of melting points and footprints of falling buildings. Unnervingly it seemed to take little to leap from such engineering niceties to Illuminati, Satan Worship and Alien control of our Governments. The most notable thing was their relentlessness (and total lack of sense of humour). Nevertheless, the oddballs have quite a following in the US as far as I could ascertain. Certainly my cynicism was rebutted by a number of equally convinced supporters.
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaxOverlord
First off you can't compare the actions of a people living in a free society of 300 million who do things because of their own individual "problems" with a mob-rule mentality of a political persuasion acting out with rocks and firebombs and overturning cars.
The difference is between like-minded people acting out of disgust for what they perceive as injustices by the political system and a single individual acting out against society.
As for the 9/11 people. These are fabrications by people who have no facts to back up their charges. To compare a few "oddballs" who think their own government pre-planned and killed 3000 of its own citizens to a band of miscreants torching and ravaging their own cities is a little off...no?
It wasn't my intention to compare rioters with conspiracy theorists. I was rather comparing US/French dysfunctional social behaviour and political conspiracies as two separate items. I thought you had kept these separate in your original piece but this would appear to be an error on my part. With regards the former, the motivation of the two are of course quite different. One represents a collective disenchantment whereas the other is individual and self centred. Riots can be exceptionally destructive - but the riots in France were not of that order. The French democratic process is robust enough to shrug off small emotional outbursts. Indeed with turn outs of 85% the French democratic process has much to say to both the UK and the US.
As to the facts to back up conspiracy charges, there was no end of melting points and footprints of falling buildings. Unnervingly it seemed to take little to leap from such engineering niceties to Illuminati, Satan Worship and Alien control of our Governments. The most notable thing was their relentlessness (and total lack of sense of humour). Nevertheless, the oddballs have quite a following in the US as far as I could ascertain. Certainly my cynicism was rebutted by a number of equally convinced supporters.
Unfortunately I don't ever see an 85% turn-out rate in the US. We're to self absorbed for one thing. Second, I'm not quite sure what the French process has to say to the U.S being there was a Socialist 1 ballot away from being elected.
Although the Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is a Socialist....uggghhhh.
I find the conspiracies quite stimulating. The fact is, as your well aware of..to be sure, is that given any descent amount of time Anybody could come up with a conspiracy for Anything. There is a lack of belief that life could be that cut and dry. Some need to feel that life is Bigger than that.
There are no coincidences in the conspiratorial mind.
As far as melting steel...it's call smelting and it happens all the time.
Whats most curious to me is how one arrives at the point of wanting the conspiracy to be true. Is it simply selfishness? I,for one, would be too afraid to leave the goddamned house if I were to believe all the hype.
I think it is the idea of disliking the form of government and the representatives of that government sooo much that one is willing to do anything to see that said government taken down.....it has happened countless times before...as you know.
Capitalism has it's piggish traits to be sure. Too many to count in fact, but it is the best...and maybe the only one that has worked....depending on your definition of worked of course.
Playing in to mans natural greed and want for dominance is maybe not the best way but it is the way that fuels man.
Any type of Socialism or Communism all start out with "nice" ideas but always end in death and murder and purging.
The truth is as long as humans act human nothing will fully work.
I'm done for now.
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
To be fair, the riots are nothing to really get excited about. Larger riots happen all the time, particularly on their national holidays. The French press aren't going on about it, and said in comparison to typical street riots, this was small scale.
The French, the crazy fuckers, love a good riot. Vive La France. Or burn. Whatever.
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jimbo12345
To be fair, the riots are nothing to really get excited about. Larger riots happen all the time, particularly on their national holidays. The French press aren't going on about it, and said in comparison to typical street riots, this was small scale.
The French, the crazy fuckers, love a good riot. Vive La France. Or burn. Whatever.
Maybe that's what I like about them. :frusty:
I'll have to get back to you on that...:huh:
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaxOverlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggles
It wasn't my intention to compare rioters with conspiracy theorists. I was rather comparing US/French dysfunctional social behaviour and political conspiracies as two separate items. I thought you had kept these separate in your original piece but this would appear to be an error on my part. With regards the former, the motivation of the two are of course quite different. One represents a collective disenchantment whereas the other is individual and self centred. Riots can be exceptionally destructive - but the riots in France were not of that order. The French democratic process is robust enough to shrug off small emotional outbursts. Indeed with turn outs of 85% the French democratic process has much to say to both the UK and the US.
As to the facts to back up conspiracy charges, there was no end of melting points and footprints of falling buildings. Unnervingly it seemed to take little to leap from such engineering niceties to Illuminati, Satan Worship and Alien control of our Governments. The most notable thing was their relentlessness (and total lack of sense of humour). Nevertheless, the oddballs have quite a following in the US as far as I could ascertain. Certainly my cynicism was rebutted by a number of equally convinced supporters.
Unfortunately I don't ever see an 85% turn-out rate in the US. We're to self absorbed for one thing. Second, I'm not quite sure what the French process has to say to the U.S being there was a Socialist 1 ballot away from being elected.
Although the Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is a Socialist....uggghhhh.
:) Surely choice is wonderful - the lifeblood of democracy? Non?
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
When can I do my "The French are revolting" joke :unsure:
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Brighter future?
I'm betting nothing much change at all, if he's truly conservative.
If anything changes anyway, it might be crap for everyone who doesn't have a steady, good job and some savings, going by how proper conservatives hereabouts usually work.
Not that it reflects much on "conservatives" in other parts of the world (like, oh, republicans, seeing as how what they stand for isn't very conservative at all).
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Brighter future?
I'm betting nothing much change at all, if he's truly conservative.
If anything changes anyway, it might be crap for everyone who doesn't have a steady, good job and some savings, going by how proper conservatives hereabouts usually work.
Not that it reflects much on "conservatives" in other parts of the world (like, oh, republicans, seeing as how what they stand for isn't very conservative at all).
Well, of course, conservative being the relative thing that it is, and the French version likewise being a bit removed from the U.S. version, and Chirac being a sterling example of the French version, and Sarkozy being a French version...
Apparently suggesting a French person work more than 35 hours per week (aren't metric hours shorter anyway) and intimating France might be a tad more friendly to the U.S. is sufficient to get the youngsters to break out the matches and take it to the streets - they are a very sensitive people, eh?
Fear not, Gaullists...I will buy a bottle of your wine, be of good cheer! :)
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaxOverlord
Unfortunately I don't ever see an 85% turn-out rate in the US. We're to self absorbed for one thing. Second, I'm not quite sure what the French process has to say to the U.S being there was a Socialist 1 ballot away from being elected.
Although the Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is a Socialist....uggghhhh.
:) Surely choice is wonderful - the lifeblood of democracy? Non?
Choice is. Agreed.
But Socialism doesn't quite fit the Capitalistic structure.
Ironic to be sure.
I think there is a lot to be said about just how much Joe 6-pack knows/cares about the differences and/or similarities between the political systems and how much that effects the system in place in any given country.
I'm a far cry from being a expert. But I know enough to be wary of them all. :ermm:
Re: Conservative Sarkozy is elected...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Brighter future?
I'm betting nothing much change at all, if he's truly conservative.
If anything changes anyway, it might be crap for everyone who doesn't have a steady, good job and some savings, going by how proper conservatives hereabouts usually work.
Not that it reflects much on "conservatives" in other parts of the world (like, oh, republicans, seeing as how what they stand for isn't very conservative at all).
I'll agree with your last point as far as this current admin. is concerned.
Bush has definitely bloated our government.
