This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure

If you want to hear a truely great response to the events of Sept. 11, listen to the lyrics of Bon Jovi's Undivided:

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That was my brother lost in the rubble
That was my sister lost in the crush
That was our mothers, those were our children
That was our fathers, that was each one of us
A million prayers to God above
A million tears make an ocean of

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you

I found spirit, they couldn't ruin it
I found courage in the smoke and dust
I found faith in the songs you silenced
Deep down it's ringing out in each of us
Yeah... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

How many hands? How many hearts?
How many dreams been torn apart?
Enough, enough... the time has come to rise back as

Chorus:
One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

Undivided.
Undivided.

One for love
One for truth
One for me
One for you
Where we once were divided
Now we stand united
We stand as one... undivided.

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Not overly sentimental, not overly confrontational, just defiant and unbuckled, and united in the face of tragedy. As we all should be.

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Originally posted by nigel123+31 July 2003 - 22:04--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 &#064; 31 July 2003 - 22:04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

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Originally posted by hobbes@31 July 2003 - 21:17
<!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor

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@31 July 2003 - 13:50
I&#39;m sorry to inform you that this does not give me chills for sure. Oddly enough, it reminded me of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I&#39;m certain that wasn&#39;t its original intent, but there you go.

:ninja:

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The parallel escapes me, completely. Maybe both sets of civilians killed, were victims of actions undertaken by their governments, but that seems specious.


Your comment is very out of character, so I assume you were responding to the emotional manipulation the poster and his link were attempting to force on you. I can&#39;t help but be a little disappointed. You should direct your response to the poster, not the victims.


As for my response, it does not fill me with sadness, but a terrible rage.

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Hello Hobbes,

The mind is a strange organ. Unexpected associations can be conjured up.

Your feelings of rage surprised me. You did not explain the cause of your rage. Did you mean the use of the atomic bomb against civilians or the aeroplanes flying into the towers?

Edit: The manipulation or something else[/b][/quote]
Nigel,

I see no need to clarify my post, its&#39; meaning is obvious, and you know it.

I see an obvious personal jab at me, please return to the high road. In fact, I will be sure to join you there. ;)


As for Magic,

Your response should have read, "It was a terrible event, but I sort of object to being manipulated into stock response, which was your (sampsons&#39;) intent". This is the intent I saw on your part, through your words. I saw no need for your, "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs". Sometimes if we collect our thoughts before we shoot back, we can be more effective. (Trust me, I&#39;ve traveled this road before).

It does you no credit to continue with "the entire event has been grossly manipulated by the US Government". What the government did "after the fact" has no bearing on the event or on the emotional impact that it had on US citizens.

That link was actually the first time I have seen people clinging to windows and jumping. Did you see how many were hanging out? So many must have jumped to death, right on camera. I&#39;m glad we don&#39;t show that stuff here.

"This Will Give Ya Chills For Sure"
Oddly enough, I was falling asleep. From the minute I turned it on I knew what it would be about. I closed the link around when they started showing pixelated images of the WTC on 9/11.
And call me a bastard for DARING to fall asleep during such an emotional roller-coaster of a movie, but I live in NYC... And the amount of crap that we&#39;ve gone through is so unbelievable that this sort of thing doesn&#39;t even chill me anymore.
The government has raped us dry... And left us to bleed, infected with STDs.
Our mayor is a short, stumpy, lumpy idiot of a man who loves to see just how many liberties he can remove, and how many taxes he can raise.
And I won&#39;t even start about our beloved Govnah&#39;.

Ordinarily, the development of loving-kindness and compassion occurs when an individual sees someone suffering. When an individual develops the wish to liberate that being from the experience of suffering, this is compassion. Knowing that all beings wish to obtain happiness, and wanting to give them happiness, this is loving-kindness

I also see people suffering, all around the world. I see it in your &#39;rage&#39;and I feel it could consume you Hobbes. Certainly it was not meant as a &#39;jab&#39; at you. If you had not seen that link you would have felt less enraged at this moment than you do now.

I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being. My point was more directed towards an understanding of your emotions. Every action creates a reaction and so a circle of events unfold that can become self perpetuating. Someone has to break that circle. I don&#39;t believe that those thoughts that were propagated in that film will help; if we want to live peacefully together.

We wil always be subject to natural catastrophies, there is not all that much we can do about that. We can in a small way help to create a more compassionate climate for ourselves and our children, by caring for each other and encouraging positive thought patterns. A good friend will point out the negative thoughts.

edit: a couple of spelling mistakes.

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Originally posted by kAb@31 July 2003 - 16:55
i thought it was good, up until the &#39;in your face&#39; comments like "THIS COULD BE YOUR SISTER" and shit like that. it would&#39;ve been fine without the words.

but for those of you who are discrespecting the U.S. and in effect mocking the sept. 11 attacks, FUCK YOU.

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I agree with kAb, if you are going to disrepect the US, FUCK YOU
The US made a free country and all of your countries did the same because you know you love freedom. The US has saved almost all of your ass&#39;s before in wars. If someone hits our tallest building with a freaking civilian plane, we&#39;re going to attack them. We got good reasons to. And even if 9-11 didnt happen Iraq and Afganistan still should have been attacked before they have terrorists. I wonder why Saddam is running a little like a little pus if he isnt scared of the US. I know why&#33; Because he knows we&#39;re gonna kill him, or capture him and get all the infomation we can and then send him to court and have his ass killed that way. We still havent got Saddam or Osama but they are 2 people in a world of 6 billion. We&#39;ll get them sooner or later. Hitler wasnt captured right after the Nazi&#39;s fell , so i dont think you should think we have to find saddam or osama right away. The 1st thing i thought about was 9-11. After about the 2nd or 3rd sentence. And if your not American you probably dont care since your country wasnt hit wit a plane&#33; So if you dont care, then Fuck You. Guess who else is going to be set free...... Liberia&#33; They didnt play any big roll in 9-11 but we know they have terrorist&#39;s and harm there people so we&#39;re freeing them as well.

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Originally posted by DarkBlizzard+31 July 2003 - 15:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DarkBlizzard @ 31 July 2003 - 15:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kAb@31 July 2003 - 16:55
i thought it was good, up until the &#39;in your face&#39; comments like "THIS COULD BE YOUR SISTER" and shit like that. it would&#39;ve been fine without the words.

but for those of you who are discrespecting the U.S. and in effect mocking the sept. 11 attacks, FUCK YOU.

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I agree with kAb, if you are going to disrepect the US, FUCK YOU
The US made a free country and all of your countries did the same because you know you love freedom. The US has saved almost all of your ass&#39;s before in wars. If someone hits our tallest building with a freaking civilian plane, we&#39;re going to attack them. We got good reasons to. And even if 9-11 didnt happen Iraq and Afganistan still should have been attacked before they have terrorists. I wonder why Saddam is running a little like a little pus if he isnt scared of the US. I know why&#33; Because he knows we&#39;re gonna kill him, or capture him and get all the infomation we can and then send him to court and have his ass killed that way. We still havent got Saddam or Osama but they are 2 people in a world of 6 billion. We&#39;ll get them sooner or later. Hitler wasnt captured right after the Nazi&#39;s fell , so i dont think you should think we have to find saddam or osama right away. The 1st thing i thought about was 9-11. After about the 2nd or 3rd sentence. And if your not American you probably dont care since your country wasnt hit wit a plane&#33; So if you dont care, then Fuck You. Guess who else is going to be set free...... Liberia&#33; They didnt play any big roll in 9-11 but we know they have terrorist&#39;s and harm there people so we&#39;re freeing them as well. [/b][/quote]
encore encore :)

(but hitler died in 1945)

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Originally posted by hobbes@31 July 2003 - 23:55
As for Magic,

Your response should have read, "It was a terrible event, but I sort of object to being manipulated into stock response, which was your (sampsons&#39;) intent". This is the intent I saw on your part, through your words. I saw no need for your, "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs". Sometimes if we collect our thoughts before we shoot back, we can be more effective. (Trust me, I&#39;ve traveled this road before).

It does you no credit to continue with "the entire event has been grossly manipulated by the US Government". What the government did "after the fact" has no bearing on the event or on the emotional impact that it had on US citizens.

That link was actually the first time I have seen people clinging to windows and jumping. Did you see how many were hanging out? So many must have jumped to death, right on camera. I&#39;m glad we don&#39;t show that stuff here.

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I never said "Ya you guys did it, too- remember the A-Bombs." When I was going through school, the Great Wars, Hiroshima and the phrase never forget were intertwined. In fact, one couldn&#39;t learn about them without having that phrase show up. Perhaps it&#39;s changed now. Perhaps never forget is now associated with more recent events. However, you&#39;re reading far too much into what I said, and insinuating statements that I did not make, nor intended to.

The manipulation is due to the emotional response of the US citizens, which is resonating to this day. I&#39;m not certain if the US has privacy watchdogs, or if they&#39;re ever vocal, but legislation has been tabled that wouldn&#39;t have even been considered a few years ago. Those are the political maneuverings I&#39;m referring to.

I&#39;ve seen footage of people jumping from the buildings. It was played quite often at the time, second only to the planes hitting the towers, and said towers collapsing. I think it was showing for around two months, actually, because my roommate would always be watching it.

:ninja:

Ok, I understand your association, the phrase "never forget". It would have been helpful to explain this in your first post to clarify the link of one event to the other, otherwise, it leaves the reader (me), to place his spin on the intent of your ambiguous words.

I did comment that I found your post "atypical" and now I know why.

I guess I&#39;m showing my age. ;) It never occurred to me that people would be confused about the link.

:ninja:

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Originally posted by nigel123@1 August 2003 - 00:24
Ordinarily, the development of loving-kindness and compassion occurs when an individual sees someone suffering. When an individual develops the wish to liberate that being from the experience of suffering, this is compassion. Knowing that all beings wish to obtain happiness, and wanting to give them happiness, this is loving-kindness

I also see people suffering, all around the world. I see it in your &#39;rage&#39;and I feel it could consume you Hobbes. Certainly it was not meant as a &#39;jab&#39; at you. If you had not seen that link you would have felt less enraged at this moment than you do now.

I believe all life is sacred, be it microbe or a human being. My point was more directed towards an understanding of your emotions. Every action creates a reaction and so a circle of events unfold that can become self perpetuating. Someone has to break that circle. I don&#39;t believe that those thoughts that were propagated in that film will help; if we want to live peacefully together.&nbsp;

We wil always be subject to natural catastrophies, there is not all that much we can do about that. We can in a small way help to create a more compassionate climate for ourselves and our children, by caring for each other and encouraging positive thought patterns. A good friend will point out the negative thoughts.

edit: a couple of spelling mistakes.

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Why do I feel that there is a sign saying, "You are here" over my head.


http://www.psychoanalysis.org.uk/shrink.jpg