Ontologically speaking, how can GOD be proven

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Originally Posted by sez

Show me a single piece of non-circumstantial evidence disprove the existence of God, and then I will make my decision on this.

The theory of evolution is just that.. you know just a theory. Scientists themselves have argued against this theory, that it violates natural laws, such as the second law on thermodynamics and so on.

God is a spiritual being, not a physical one.You obviously can't use natural laws to prove a spiritual being.You use natural laws to prove physical objects and God is above these laws.Since He created everything, He can bend natural laws at His will..which account for events, situations, miracles, etc. which science cannot explain.

We see God's creation all around us. His creation is a manifestation and proof that there must be someone responsible for all these things. In science class, we studied about the universal physical constants like gravitational constant. These constants are so perfect that if it's a little lower or higher, our world will be in chaos. What's the probability that accident and randomity has brought about our orderly world? I won't leave all the explanation to "chance". The perfect explanation for everything is the existence of God. :yes:

if you are the type that believes your computer would have self upgraded its OS from windows 98 to windows 7 then my bad but otherwise go read on the DNA double helix then come and explain as to how chaos could have come up with such order.

The truth is God has put a God-shaped hole in the heart of every human being.His plan is for man to find and worship Him. History shows that mankind has acknowledged an all-powerful supernatural being since time immemorial. You can find ancient people worshipping the moon, sun, stars, calf, snakes, their ancestors, or any other thing. Nobody taught them about God. Their natural instinct told them there is someone great out there...and that someone is God. Now, it's up to the individual to acknowledge or reject the existence of God,its a faith thing you aren't supposed to be swayed by evidence.

Also did you know that blackholes, as accepted as they are by scientists as being fact are yet to be proven by solid evidence?just goes to show how naive you are to put your trust in such people.

If you didn't know,in essence you are saying you are just meat as you have no soul.

Plus i think it should tell you something that everything on this planet has an opposite(all explained in less than 1000 words in genesis).
Like how do you explain evil and good.(your sushi and mollusc ancestors know something?)I mean these two forces ought to have come from somewhere,right?and please don't tell me you think that evil and good are also a myth :P

I want to call you an idiot,but i'll wait and see if you have any strong evidence to disprove the existence of God.
imo i think people like you are just guys who have a problem with religious folks.

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I don't think you made your case to say that GOD exists, so far you haven't prove anything.
Don't tell me the bible was written by god, because that is crap, most books of the new testament, people wrote them houndred of years after "Jesus" died, so you are going to have to make a better job proving anyone wrong.
Calling somebody an idiot for not believing in God, that makes you a religious intolerant and we have lots of those in this world, not more needed. It is about respecting everybodies believes.

Can you prove to me that god doesn't exist?

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Originally Posted by tmac

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Do you have proof that everything you see is made of atoms and molecules?

Or do you have faith that the physicists know what they're talking about

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That is just over-simplifying a situation, evidence is available to be proven if challenged, cannot say the same thing about God.

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You have that the wrong way around.

A Hypothesis/Theory gains weight by not being proven false, not by being proven correct. It's virtually impossible to prove something is 100% fact.

The Theory of Evolution, for example, is still a Theory.. Granted, It's stood the test of time and is a very Strong Theory, but its still a Theory.

On a level playing field then any "God" does not have to be proven, "his" or "her" or "its" existence is valid until disproven.

The problem I have with all of this is that I don't believe the subject of "God" is valid for any type of Scientific Analysis.

It's the same arguement I use with Creationism in Science Classes.. Its not that I dont think people should be taught Religion, it's just that its not Science... and should therefore be restricted to Religious classes.

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Originally Posted by knivesreturns

Can you prove to me that god doesn't exist?

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So you want prove? I could ask you, if God is such a great god, why do so many kids suffer so much, why the people that say they are servants of god, abuse so much and they get away with for years and years, ans justice is never serve?
You prove me that GOD exists, come on try.
GOD is an imaginary idol than men created to control a bunch of people.
God is what some people need, when they don't any hope at all.
Look at the middle east, there is a god there?
Look at Ireland, Christinas against Christinas for so many years.
Look at Spain, so many people killed in the inquisition.
Look at the midle east, do I need to say more?
Look at the united States congress. When the republicans were in power, they would say that GOD spoke to them, well, god must be an asswhole then. They were against abortion and killing kids in Iraq and afganistan, it is amazing how religion brainwashes people and nobody seems to understand anything about it.
I am tired of people saying, god is misterious, of course he is...

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Originally Posted by pentomato

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Originally Posted by knivesreturns

Can you prove to me that god doesn't exist?

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So you want prove? I could ask you, if God is such a great god, why do so many kids suffer so much, why the people that say they are servants of god, abuse so much and they get away with for years and years, ans justice is never serve?
You prove me that GOD exists, come on try.
GOD is an imaginary idol than men created to control a bunch of people.
God is what some people need, when they don't any hope at all.
Look at the middle east, there is a god there?
Look at Ireland, Christinas against Christinas for so many years.
Look at Spain, so many people killed in the inquisition.
Look at the midle east, do I need to say more?
Look at the united States congress. When the republicans were in power, they would say that GOD spoke to them, well, god must be an asswhole then. They were against abortion and killing kids in Iraq and afganistan, it is amazing how religion brainwashes people and nobody seems to understand anything about it.
I am tired of people saying, god is misterious, of course he is...

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Gos is a debt collector now. Mister ious.:cry:

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Explain how light can be a particle and a wave at the same time.

Explain how the universe came from nothing.

Science doesn't have all the answers.

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I'm preaching doubt, the burden of proof is on the theist and deistbecuase you already know the answer, its in the book. Asking me how I not know how the universe came about is an impossibility.

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

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Originally Posted by tmac

That is just over-simplifying a situation, evidence is available to be proven if challenged, cannot say the same thing about God.

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You have that the wrong way around.

A Hypothesis/Theory gains weight by not being proven false, not by being proven correct. It's virtually impossible to prove something is 100% fact.

The Theory of Evolution, for example, is still a Theory.. Granted, It's stood the test of time and is a very Strong Theory, but its still a Theory.

On a level playing field then any "God" does not have to be proven, "his" or "her" or "its" existence is valid until disproven.

The problem I have with all of this is that I don't believe the subject of "God" is valid for any type of Scientific Analysis.

It's the same arguement I use with Creationism in Science Classes.. Its not that I dont think people should be taught Religion, it's just that its not Science... and should therefore be restricted to Religious classes.

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Tell me what tools are readily available to you and not me where you can substantiate a God theory to the degree of accuracy evolution and atomic theories....God has not stood the test of time, the list of "Gods" that have been retired are in the thousands; now I'm expected to make a case for this one God that hinges on the fact that I have to believe in it without any sort of reconcile proof? PUHLEASE

When did man first find out about God? How many people were present when this knowledge was obtained?

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Originally Posted by sez

Show me a single piece of non-circumstantial evidence disprove the existence of God, and then I will make my decision on this.

The theory of evolution is just that.. you know just a theory. Scientists themselves have argued against this theory, that it violates natural laws, such as the second law on thermodynamics and so on.

God is a spiritual being, not a physical one.You obviously can't use natural laws to prove a spiritual being.You use natural laws to prove physical objects and God is above these laws.Since He created everything, He can bend natural laws at His will..which account for events, situations, miracles, etc. which science cannot explain.

We see God's creation all around us. His creation is a manifestation and proof that there must be someone responsible for all these things. In science class, we studied about the universal physical constants like gravitational constant. These constants are so perfect that if it's a little lower or higher, our world will be in chaos. What's the probability that accident and randomity has brought about our orderly world? I won't leave all the explanation to "chance". The perfect explanation for everything is the existence of God. :yes:

if you are the type that believes your computer would have self upgraded its OS from windows 98 to windows 7 then my bad but otherwise go read on the DNA double helix then come and explain as to how chaos could have come up with such order.

The truth is God has put a God-shaped hole in the heart of every human being.His plan is for man to find and worship Him. History shows that mankind has acknowledged an all-powerful supernatural being since time immemorial. You can find ancient people worshipping the moon, sun, stars, calf, snakes, their ancestors, or any other thing. Nobody taught them about God. Their natural instinct told them there is someone great out there...and that someone is God. Now, it's up to the individual to acknowledge or reject the existence of God,its a faith thing you aren't supposed to be swayed by evidence.

Also did you know that blackholes, as accepted as they are by scientists as being fact are yet to be proven by solid evidence?just goes to show how naive you are to put your trust in such people.

If you didn't know,in essence you are saying you are just meat as you have no soul.

Plus i think it should tell you something that everything on this planet has an opposite(all explained in less than 1000 words in genesis).
Like how do you explain evil and good.(your sushi and mollusc ancestors know something?)I mean these two forces ought to have come from somewhere,right?and please don't tell me you think that evil and good are also a myth :P

I want to call you an idiot,but i'll wait and see if you have any strong evidence to disprove the existence of God.
imo i think people like you are just guys who have a problem with religious folks.

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I can't not disprove God, I don't have a book that tells me the origins of the universe, you have to tell me how the earth was arisen in 7 days, I don't have to disprove that, because I would just laugh. You know how it went, I don't think science understands or ever will understand where the origins of life and the universe came from. But I'd assume it would take >7 days to develop.


Okay you went from God going from a spiritual being (not a physical one) to one who "has put a God-shaped hole in the heart of every human being" and to one whose "plan is for man to find and worship Him". Okay two points I want to make here then I'll try to attack your design argument. First of all that last sentence sounds a lot like servility, the desire to be an abject slave. Your first sentence sounds a lot like God has a plan for all of us. Tell that to the people who died in the Holocaust, I mean if God is so powerful then why does he let evil exist, why not just kill the devil.


"Also did you know that black holes, as accepted as they are by scientists as being fact are yet to be proven by solid evidence?just goes to show how naive you are to put your trust in such people."
Black holes are just areas of intense gravitational pull, we know they exist because we can see stars around them have their gravitational properties disturbed, immensely.


"Like how do you explain evil and good.(your sushi and mollusc ancestors know something?)I mean these two forces ought to have come from somewhere,right?"Morality has nothing to do with whether we believe in God or not, human nature is imprinted in every human we are still wired to think for survival at all times.

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa

Explain how light can be a particle and a wave at the same time.

Explain how the universe came from nothing.

Science doesn't have all the answers.

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Science doesn't have all the answers, percisley. But to fall back on a divine power to prove these questions is VERY unoriginal in terms of history. Science needs time.