caratnetworks

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

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Originally Posted by Artemis

Aaaah yes the host with the dodgy hard drives. Carat was FTWR's host and the major reason why that torrent site is not with us any more, that wasn't the only data failure, just the most unrecoverable one.

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I'm sorry, is this a joke? Sure, it's just a torrent site, but facts are facts. I can understand the anger (if I am correct in detecting some there), but if you care about that torrent site (I don't know you that well so am not sure) then let me take you seriously:

First of all, I am still shocked and appalled every time someone reminds me of FTWR and what happened, and will continue to for a long time. Secondly, I am baffled as to why you are shifting the blame from what was an incredible mistake on staff's part (and imo, unprofessional, not to mention deafeningly embarrassing), to something else.

No one's perfect and we're all humans who make mistakes but whoever was responsible (M4rduK I guess?) has a lot to recover in terms of their reputation. I thought doing regular off-site backups was a basic principle of website management 101.

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I was stating a known fact, carat networks servers have reliability problems. There are other instances of hard drive failures which have directly affected other torrent sites. Now I know hard drive failures are a fact of life, but when we are talking multiple failures in the same data center then it becomes a reliability issue as well. The backup scheme that ftwr had in place simply did not take into account hard drive failure, since in a data center it is supposed to be a rare occurrence (part of the money you pay if you look at a contract is for physical maintenance of the server you are leasing).
It is the administrator/coder's responsibility for database maintenance for the site, M4rduK may well have been unaware of the backup scheme in place.
The point I am trying to make is this failure happened in a managed environment, it's not aunties PC that finally committed suicide after 5 years of abuse, this is a datacenter, they specifically make money from leasing out maintained servers. It is the fact that I am aware of other failures which brought me to comment on carat's reliability, since without the catastrophic hard drive failure in the first place, this would not even be a debate.
One final thought though, for all those who are angered over the lack of an external backup, I have a question for you. Have you ever lost data through lack of a backup yourself ? I doubt if there is a person here who claim that they have not lost data, and remember they were paying with the maintenance part of the contract, for this not to happen.

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I was stating a known fact, carat networks servers have reliability problems. There are other instances of hard drive failures which have directly affected other torrent sites. Now I know hard drive failures are a fact of life, but when we are talking multiple failures in the same data center then it becomes a reliability issue as well. The backup scheme that ftwr had in place simply did not take into account hard drive failure, since in a data center it is supposed to be a rare occurrence (part of the money you pay if you look at a contract is for physical maintenance of the server you are leasing).
It is the administrator/coder's responsibility for database maintenance for the site, M4rduK may well have been unaware of the backup scheme in place.
The point I am trying to make is this failure happened in a managed environment, it's not aunties PC that finally committed suicide after 5 years of abuse, this is a datacenter, they specifically make money from leasing out maintained servers. It is the fact that I am aware of other failures which brought me to comment on carat's reliability, since without the catastrophic hard drive failure in the first place, this would not even be a debate.
One final thought though, for all those who are angered over the lack of an external backup, I have a question for you. Have you ever lost data through lack of a backup yourself ? I doubt if there is a person here who claim that they have not lost data, and remember they were paying with the maintenance part of the contract, for this not to happen.

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Where is your source for this data protection plan?

It is not a data protection plan, if you re-read my post, it is hardware maintenance I am talking about, the physical maintenance of the server racks and servers in the datacenter, and this you do pay for as part of your contract when you lease a server. Server racks typically include hardware monitoring as well as in-line power filtering and UPS protection, as well as being kept in a temperature and humidity controlled environment.
The fact that this is not an isolated incident, is why I commented on Carat's reliability.

I don't care whether carat have HDD reliability problems or not, that's not the issue. The issue is, NEVER rely on your host to keep backups of your site database! A "backup" is not a backup if it's on the same server! This is ALL about the basic issue of making site backups, not what your host is "responsible" for!

Recoverability by the host is an emergency situation when the worst has happened. It is the site owner's (M4rduK's) responsibility to have things set up so that "catastrophic" scenario doesn't HAVE to happen! :rolleyes: A HDD crash is something you should be *prepared* for, NOT just allow it to be a sitting duck and expect that the data will all be recoverable! (yeah, pun intended.)

I'm sorry but this is farcical. I'm still baffled as ever, as to why you're defending M4rduK when FTWR's demise was clearly his fault. The HDD failure may have been "catastrophic" but what was even more catastrophic is the mistake M4rduK made. Why can't humble pie be eaten? I include it as regular part of my diet, it doesn't taste the best but it's very good for you...

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I don't care whether carat have HDD reliability problems or not, that's not the issue. The issue is, NEVER rely on your host to keep backups of your site database! A "backup" is not a backup if it's on the same server! This is ALL about the basic issue of making site backups, not what your host is "responsible" for!

Recoverability by the host is an emergency situation when the worst has happened. It is the site owner's (M4rduK's) responsibility to have things set up so that "catastrophic" scenario doesn't HAVE to happen! :rolleyes: A HDD crash is something you should be *prepared* for, NOT just allow it to be a sitting duck and expect that the data will all be recoverable! (yeah, pun intended.)

I'm sorry but this is farcical. I'm still baffled as ever, as to why you're defending M4rduK when FTWR's demise was clearly his fault. The HDD failure may have been "catastrophic" but what was even more catastrophic is the mistake M4rduK made. Why can't humble pie be eaten? I include it as regular part of my diet, it doesn't taste the best but it's very good for you...

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It's his fault a hard drive failed..... lol...
It's western digital's fault I guarantee it was one of their drives lol.

There are so many freak scenarios that could happen you can't prepare for them all.

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I don't care whether carat have HDD reliability problems or not, that's not the issue. The issue is, NEVER rely on your host to keep backups of your site database! A "backup" is not a backup if it's on the same server! This is ALL about the basic issue of making site backups, not what your host is "responsible" for!

Recoverability by the host is an emergency situation when the worst has happened. It is the site owner's (M4rduK's) responsibility to have things set up so that "catastrophic" scenario doesn't HAVE to happen! :rolleyes: A HDD crash is something you should be *prepared* for, NOT just allow it to be a sitting duck and expect that the data will all be recoverable! (yeah, pun intended.)

I'm sorry but this is farcical. I'm still baffled as ever, as to why you're defending M4rduK when FTWR's demise was clearly his fault. The HDD failure may have been "catastrophic" but what was even more catastrophic is the mistake M4rduK made. Why can't humble pie be eaten? I include it as regular part of my diet, it doesn't taste the best but it's very good for you...

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I recall having this discussion with one of their staff members, the response was "well we couldn't afford a second server". I think backups were kept only in case someone accidentally deleted random DB lines. I inquired as to why they simply didn't back them up on someone's home computer, the response was of course, security. When I suggested they should've just stored backups in a truecrypt container, the conversation stagnated pretty quickly :naughty:

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Originally Posted by Tv Controls you

It's his fault a hard drive failed..... lol...
It's western digital's fault I guarantee it was one of their drives lol.

There are so many freak scenarios that could happen you can't prepare for them all.

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Both WD and Seagate (common external HD manufacturers, the drives in question are likely neither) have people that swear to their quality, in addition to those who have had catastrophic failures. Personally, I've yet to have a WD external fail on me, but at the end of the day those drives are unreliable and you should really keep backups ;)

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I'm sorry but this is farcical. I'm still baffled as ever, as to why you're defending M4rduK when FTWR's demise was clearly his fault. The HDD failure may have been "catastrophic" but what was even more catastrophic is the mistake M4rduK made. Why can't humble pie be eaten? I include it as regular part of my diet, it doesn't taste the best but it's very good for you...

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You seem easily baffled, but also seem to need someone to blame, in that M4rduK is not the right person for your anger. He was a. not the owner of the site, b.just another member of staff, one who progressed through the ranks over the years from mod to admin, and very very recently to sysop when JGG stepped down. As I also explained, database control and backup was the job of the coders for the site. If you do feel so strongly about this though maybe you should talk to him directly since this boils your bunny so much. He is staff on other trackers and available on several irc channels on the bend network for you to explain your extreme disappointment.

I agree that the demise of the site was ultimately due to the lack of an off-site backup and as Ca aok suggested there are several ways around this but then hindsight is a marvelous thing, and this is not the first torrent site that closed due to lack of backup and probably won't be the last.
I still think with my knowledge of other recent failures that Carat has reliability problems.

Carat does have reliability issues. I know of at least 3 sites hosted there who have had HDDs failing on them, multiple times.

Also, to comment on a previous post, while filesharing in Canada is legal, running a tracker is not.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I'm sorry but this is farcical. I'm still baffled as ever, as to why you're defending M4rduK when FTWR's demise was clearly his fault. The HDD failure may have been "catastrophic" but what was even more catastrophic is the mistake M4rduK made. Why can't humble pie be eaten? I include it as regular part of my diet, it doesn't taste the best but it's very good for you...

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You...seem to need someone to blame

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Yeah...you see that as a Problem? :P I don't ;).

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As I also explained, database control and backup was the job of the coders for the site. If you do feel so strongly about this though maybe you should talk to him directly since this boils your bunny so much. He is staff on other trackers and available on several irc channels on the bend network for you to explain your extreme disappointment.

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Thing is, I'm not angry :). Not at FTWR, not at <insert FTWR owner here, who I thought was M4rduK but alright whoeever it is>. I was never there and never wanted to join it either. But annoyed, yes - at how you argued it was all Carat's fault - annoyed on a pure logical level. (with nothing to do with whether I think carat are a good host or not - since that is irrelevant to the issue.)

I know ilias, and he is a cool guy. I have much respect for him from what I know of him and from conversation I've had with him. He's the type of person who I would be shocked if I found him to be responsable for such a stupid thing - no matter my regard for him [but that's just it! I have always been told that FTWR staff are "amongst the best in the bt world" blaa blaa blaa and that's why I AM shocked at this - but not angry lol]. But I don't deem ilias responsable anyway, I deem the owner 95% responsability and only think that other staff should have a. thought of it, b. checked it and c. seeing that it wasn't being done, vehemently suggested it to the owner and I'm sorry, but I would never staff at a site that didn't make a (secure? sure, noobzor showed how that was viable!) off-site backup and constantly existed in the possibility that in one second the entire thing could be lost forever. I wouldn't even want to be a member of such a site. It's a tragedy to those who valued FTWR and a joke to others who didn't (and who tend to laugh at such things). To me, it's just pure WHAT DIDN'T YOU DO?

You're the one who I think I can detect some anger (at FTWR's demise) in. Am i right? From your first post, it sounded really bitter. Thing is, i don't have anything wrong with that, we're all human beings, not vulcans, my only problem was you shifting the primary blame from what the real cause was. See I think it important for people to know, and for others to learn from it - I'm motivated by the desire to run a tracker well, and to see others to do the same. This is why I'm so loud-mouthed about what I think are "failsites", too. I'm just sick of them, we should strive for excellence, not be content with mediocrity. In this age of tracker saturation it's a waste of time caring for what's not the best ("best" is subjective but whatever that means to you, apply it). So a skeptical judgement when you see or hear about a new site should be always held, imo.

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I agree that the demise of the site was ultimately due to the lack of an off-site backup and as Ca aok suggested there are several ways around this but then hindsight is a marvelous thing, and this is not the first torrent site that closed due to lack of backup and probably won't be the last.

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I can agree to that. :/

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Originally Posted by pro267

Also, to comment on a previous post, while filesharing in Canada is legal, running a tracker is not.

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You'd have to find what whatman has said (maybe in his what.cd 2nd anniversary interview). He's sent emails back to rights holders saying there's nothing he's going to do about their complaint because it's not illegal where the site is hosted. It's some technicality - in how the torrent files are stored (or not stored, actually) on the server. i think.

dvdasacd you are one to easily critique every tacker and say your not content with mediocrity.
I think you should get some experience in running a tracker to really understand the responsibility and dedication it takes to make it all happen.

Also the fact that you weren't a member of FTWR drops all credibility for your posts, as you have no idea how the tracker was ran.
The only thing you know about is how it went under.