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I think we have everything to gain by waiting for independent verification as long as procurement of same doesn't involve Hans Blix, the French, Germans, or the Russians.Quote:
Originally posted by ClubDiggler@24 March 2003 - 06:09
Oh no let's give poor old Saddam the benefit of the doubt!!!
!@@#$#%$%^&*((
:angry:
We'll probably find evidence of THEM in the same places.
I was referring to the quality of information launched by both sides, not to the strong possibility that he in fact might possess such weapons.
It is very easy to sway public opinion with wrong or unprecise information, and no-one really is interested in any disclaimers thereafter.
Or do you see any of your TV stations disclaiming the SCUD news with the same vehemence they have backed it before?
It was the same with some of the "evidence" to prove that the Iraq was involved in the attacks of 11/9. There were many disclaimers afterwards, but no-one seems to remember.
I prefer to build my opinion on facts, not facts on my opinions.
UN inspectors have found involvement of companies from those countries before, that wouldn't be news, but those companies don't represent their governments, nor the people of those countries. They rather represent the economical system and philosophy they share with the rest of the so-called "civilized" world, of which we all shouldn't be particularly proud of - there are always people willing to sell their soul to the devil as long as he compensates them handsomely. Some of the early components for biological and chemical weapons were in fact supplied by the US, people tend to forget so easily...
I am an American, but not so easily convinced as you may think; I make the leaps only when entities whom I KNOW are specifically looking for things to turn out otherwise are finally convinced they are wrong; this is necessitated by the "arm-chair quarterback" quality of our debate.Quote:
Originally posted by puremindmatters@24 March 2003 - 14:44
I was referring to the quality of information launched by both sides, not to the strong possibility that he in fact might possess such weapons.
It is very easy to sway public opinion with wrong or unprecise information, and no-one really is interested in any disclaimers thereafter.
Or do you see any of your TV stations disclaiming the SCUD news with the same vehemence they have backed it before?
It was the same with some of the "evidence" to prove that the Iraq was involved in the attacks of 11/9. There were many disclaimers afterwards, but no-one seems to remember.
I prefer to build my opinion on facts, not facts on my opinions.
UN inspectors have found involvement of companies from those countries before, that wouldn't be news, but those companies don't represent their governments, nor the people of those countries. They rather represent the economical system and philosophy they share with the rest of the so-called "civilized" world, of which we all shouldn't be particularly proud of - there are always people willing to sell their soul to the devil as long as he compensates them handsomely. Some of the early components for biological and chemical weapons were in fact supplied by the US, people tend to forget so easily...
You make your point well, though-I salute you. Zardoz could take lessons from you-DON'T take that wrong, either.
I think if you check the news again you will actually find that the "weapons factory" was completely derelict and the coalition have absolutely no proof that it was used for WMD.Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@24 March 2003 - 02:00
I just heard on the news that the forces found a HUGE chemical factory in IraQ. And they captured an Iraqi General in charge of the factory too.
A 100 acre facility with electric fence surrounding it and BOOBY-TRAPPED!
Let's see how this is going to pan out.
The story was reported by what the US called "an overly enthusiastic Israeli journalist"
Now how much bad feeling will that stir up in the Arab world? <_<
Please....
we all have TV and radio and suffer mis-information this way (from both side..)
so please don't bring these shitty arguments in here...
May they found a huge factory... may there were chemicals in it but not even coalition government confirmed it were a fully fonctionnal site...
so please don't give false informations there... (no fakes anymore ;) )
see ya
All I said was "I heard on the news..."Quote:
Originally posted by tennine@24 March 2003 - 20:03
Please....
we all have TV and radio and suffer mis-information this way (from both side..)
so please don't bring these shitty arguments in here...
May they found a huge factory... may there were chemicals in it but not even coalition government confirmed it were a fully fonctionnal site...
so please don't give false informations there... (no fakes anymore ;) )
see ya
I said nothing about a "weapons factory", a chemical factory is what I said.
Then I said, "Let's see how this is going to pan out."
So I am not posting any fakes.
-------------------------------
However, it is quite suspicious that a building that is within 100 acres is intentionally hidden (camouflaged), guarded by military, high voltage fencing, surrrouned by barracks and booby-traps. And there is evidence of chemicals in there.
As far as being fully functional. It doesn't matter. There still could be chemicals, regardless.
Like I said, "Let's see how this is going to pan out."
I don't know if they are going to find chemical weapons or not. If they do have them, they wouldn't use them because then the world would know they were lying, everyone would be against them. They would have no chance of winning the war. If they do have them, they probably won't use them until they know they lost the war, just so they can do as much damage as possible before they go.Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@24 March 2003 - 02:07
Did you expect anything else.... I promisse you they will find weapons of mass destruction 2...
Even the iraqi's don't have them now (otherwise they would have used them)
They find them.....
Propaganda ..... and a to adjust their actions ...!!
No matter how much Saddam denied having nuclear and chemical weapons, we said, "You're lying, you have them there". Well, no matter what we say, you are going to say "You're Lying, you put them there." You're views are just as bad as my Governments views. You don't know anything for sure, and We don't know anything for sure, NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING FOR SURE!!!!
That is why this war is wrong.
I normally don't like hackers! But in this case I have to love them. I heard that some hackers disabled the Iraq website (or one of those websites), now everyone can't access the photos of the dead soldiers, that they proudly displayed, those sickos!
Again Spindulik i'm sorry, but have to disagree,
the war is brought home to you by so many tv stations, the tv journalists go with the boys for "a walk" into the dessert. They show you soldiers firing guns, take Iraqis prisson, you see the explosions. Imo it is good reporting when they show the bad evil of war... If these pictures and tv interviews are not showen (how awfull and shocking they even are) people might never understand that these ain't computergames. These things happen in War, how much you dislike it it happens in real life. Real people die and suffer in these wars. The US called it shock and awe.... Well you have to expect these kinda actions by the opponent then.
Never the less i pray for those souls, dead, wounded or captured, but i hope you forgive me i do that for both sides. :(
I really hope you don't see this post as disrespect for the dead, it is not. They died for doing their jobs and duty.... :unsure:
I agree, it was sick to show these Photo's..and against the Geneva Convention to display POWs.Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@24 March 2003 - 19:33
I normally don't like hackers! But in this case I have to love them. I heard that some hackers disabled the Iraq website (or one of those websites), now everyone can't access the photos of the dead soldiers, that they proudly displayed, those sickos!
However i cant help thinking of a certain camp in Afganistan and another in Cuba, when the US and UK Governments were doing EXACTLY the same thing. What short memories we have.
Geneva classified BOTH as being against the Geneva Convention.
I agree with Geneva in this respect.
Much as i deplore what the Iraqi's are doing here, it was Bush that started this particular nasty type of Propaganda.