Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman
Then your lawyer and the legislature that made these "rules" are moronic idiots.
I mean, this an easily defendable thing. There is no way that action taken against your neighbors would be considered 'worng'. :wacko:
I too don't believe this story. It's too ridiculous.
So your neighbors are free to trudge through your yard? Are you free to do the same through theirs?
I also can't believe that you would allow someone to bend you over in such a manner while you just stare in the camara and say.."That's the rules folks".
Maybe it's an American thing but something like this would make news, be appealed or something. I couldn't just sit and watch someone bring their shit through my yard and smile about it. I would literally resort to some street shit, get the person in private and stick a pistol in his mouth or something.
Most things have a simple solution.
Right lets make some things a bit clearer. I stay in the end house of a block of three. When the houses were built the middle house had 'reasonable' access through the garden at the back of both houses on either side. When the houses were bought from the council under the 'privatization' policy years ago this 'reasonable access' was carried over into the deeds of any new owner. The 'garbage' at that time was stored in an old fashioned bin and kept in a 'cupboard at the front of the house. So when the wheelie bins came into being, access through the back garden did not apply to them. When the wheelie bins appeared the owner of the middle house demanded the right to store their wheelie bin in the back garden This would involve dragging it through our garden twice a week. Is there anything else required to make this any clearer. For goodness sakes. A couple of our countries went to war with the loss of thousands of lives on the back of a pack of lies. I tell the truth and a couple of idiots in here dont believe me. Beggars belief.
:(
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Its cos it sounds like a pile of horseshit
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanB
Its cos it sounds like a pile of horseshit
You would know. You post plenty of it. :rolleyes:
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
I didn't call you a liar, I just thought you'd interpreted a situation and gotten it woefully wrong. If the story is true then i stand by the statement that the situation is ridiculous and the law should be changed.
according to the info you just supplied anybody living in the middle house would have had legal access to your back garden regardless of race.
It sounds like the initial response from the council was when they were unaware that the people in the middle house actually did have the right to go across your property, then at approximately the same time you made them aware that the people next door were 'coloured' they became aware of these peoples legal rights. (or you spoke to someone who actually had a clue about the legal issues)
My only question is how the subject of your neighbours race even came up?
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
If you say that you dont believe what I typed then you are calling me a liar.
The way they found out that my neighbour was coloured was when they asked their name. They assumed that my neighbour was coloured because they had a Pakistani sounding name. I know that making these assumptions are wrong. But in this case they were right in their assumptions. As I have stated already, the answer was a six foot fence. there is a locked gate in the fence. If my neighbour wants reasonable access then he asks and gets it. Then neighbours in this case have since moved. Please dont ask me why they moved because you wont belive that either. If you really want to know ask and I will PM you.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Isn't there a back path. Terraced house where I come from have one.
My parents had a similar issue, when the neighbours bought their Council house they decided that other people did not have the right to walk round "their" path to get to the back door. They even built a fence and gate.
My brother checked with the Council and it transpired that you bought the house and back garden, but not the path. That stayed as Council property (for this very reason) so access to the back door was allowed.
Needless to say we started using the back door more frequently (ooer missus).
Bar Stewards.
No there is no back access(ooer). Though I dont know why they did not make one as a right angled path comes almost right up to their back fence. It falls about 4 foot short.
:(
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Don't really care if or why they moved.
Let me get a few things straight:
1) Anyone living in the middle property has legal access regardless of race
2) The council initially misled you in this respect
3) If the first 2 are true your lawyer misled you regarding ethnic confrontation guidelines
Are any of those incorrect?
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
When they left did they take afence.
Sorry I cant put a Smiley at the start of my typing. Must be something to do with firefox. They took all my posts too. Or was that Rookie?
:lol: :lol:
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilw
Don't really care if or why they moved.
Let me get a few things straight:
1) Anyone living in the middle property has legal access regardless of race
2) The council initially misled you in this respect
3) If the first 2 are true your lawyer misled you regarding ethnic confrontation guidelines
Are any of those incorrect?
1. Yes
2. No not misled me. Probably by calling ethnic guidelines 'Rules' maybe.
3. No he did not. They exist. Seen them at the college where I taught.
I think each place have their own 'unnoficial' rules regarding these things. Frightened of getting sued. Yep its started over here now.
:(
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
I thought i'd set out a pretty airtight series of points, how can 1 be true and 2 not?
Quote:
The matter went to the local council. They agreed that we were in the right to refuse access.
And yet by agreeing to point 1 you're saying that you don't have right to refuse access? Hence the council must have got it wrong initially.
And if 1 is true, 3 has to be true as well, ie if access is allowed regardless of race then it has nothing to do with ethnic guidelines
(sorry rereading it 3 wasn't clear, i didn't mean that ethnic confrontation guidelines don't exist i meant that they don't apply in this case)
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilw
I thought i'd set out a pretty airtight series of points, how can 1 be true and 2 not?
And yet by agreeing to point 1 you're saying that you don't have right to refuse access? Hence the council must have got it wrong initially.
And if 1 is true, 3 has to be true as well, ie if access is allowed regardless of race then it has nothing to do with ethnic guidelines
(sorry rereading it 3 wasn't clear, i didn't mean that ethnic confrontation guidelines don't exist i meant that they don't apply in this case)
I think you are missing the main point. They have 'reasonable access'. The wheelie bin did not constitute that.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
1. Yes
2. No not misled me. Probably by calling ethnic guidelines 'Rules' maybe.
3. No he did not. They exist. Seen them at the college where I taught.
I think each place have their own 'unnoficial' rules regarding these things. Frightened of getting sued. Yep its started over here now.
:(
I once worked for an insurance brokers who provided domestic customers with car insurance. When running a quote through the system it would come up with a list of offers with the cheapest at the top. However, the was a list called the NNN list. NNN stood for 'no non-nationals', it listed what I can only describe as 'racist' insurance companies. Employees were told that if a customers name did not sound British and the top quote was from a company on the NNN list then we were to ignore the quote and offer the next one down. This is just one example of how sick our society is and why it angers and frustrates me so much.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDave
source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/4310545.stm
basically a girl refused to wear school uniform (tunic and trousers) to wear a jilbab (full length gown). religious advisors say that muslim rules say she can wear the uniform.
she says: yadda yadda yadda 9/11 yadda yadda racist yadda yadda free country yadda yadda yadda.
i say: it's nothing to do with racism, sexism or any kind of prejudice. school uniform rules should be followed. (remember muslim advisors said the current uniform is fine). this is just a case of a teenage girl making a fuss for the sake of making a fuss (like teenagers do)
Im surprised this went to court.
Since the Human Rights Act came into force, its been shown again and again that schools have no right to "force" school uniform or haircuts etc, as these break the "Right of Expresion" proviso in that Act.
They can only "Force" rules like this that have a baring on safety, such as "No Jewellry" etc.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
This isn't about race or religion, it's about respect, respecting the customs of the country you live in. If I lived in the middle east I'd respect their customs. You can't live in 1 country and expect it to honour the customs that you might have come from.
School uniform is a very important thing and should be totally adhered to. I have 2 boys between the ages of 11 and 13 and they always go to school in uniform. I believe that schools that do not enforce the wearing of uniform encourage bullying, I.E. kids whose parents that can't afford the latest sports/designer wear.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Two very important and overlooked points, so basic as to be given short-shrift, usually.
Uniforms have been proven to focus attention on academics, rather than the current vogue; if no one is displaying their navel, biceps, or other physical accoutrements, books get read, and that is for the better.
But how can my child read properly without the latest "SeanJohnPuffPDiddyDaddyCombs" Wear?
Great post btw.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
me, busyman and j2k4 all agree..... :blink:
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDave
me, busyman and j2k4 all agree..... :blink:
Like neopolitan ice cream mang. ;)
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Just so; though I don't know how you can be sure-
Where have my posts gone? :huh:
CIA? :ph34r: :cool2:
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quote:
Originally Posted by brenda
I once worked for an insurance brokers who provided domestic customers with car insurance. When running a quote through the system it would come up with a list of offers with the cheapest at the top. However, the was a list called the NNN list. NNN stood for 'no non-nationals', it listed what I can only describe as 'racist' insurance companies. Employees were told that if a customers name did not sound British and the top quote was from a company on the NNN list then we were to ignore the quote and offer the next one down. This is just one example of how sick our society is and why it angers and frustrates me so much.
Brenda, I've been meaning to respond to this for quite some time but have managed to forget it every time I've been in here up 'til now.
What you describe may well have nothing to do with racism or predjudice, or discrimination for its own sake.
The reason certain companies might choose to only cater to individuals with native-sounding names may be one entirely built on statistics, and carefully considered calculations.
I don't know the particulars in the UK, but I would imagine that it's hard for a company to look for certain information about an individual and still stay within the confines of the law.
However, a lot might be determined from looking at your name alone, since it may be a marker for other properties in an individual, like a foreign origin.
For instance, regarding newly become citizens, I recall hearing about statistics showing that people who have recently achieved citizenship tend to be more mobile than average. Meaning that they may change policy to a local company in a new area and so forth, thus bringing in a statistically lower average revenue.
Many such conclusions might be made about those who haven't been citizens for long, one could for instance imagine that certain data showed them to be more likely to lose their job, or that they were more likely to misunderstand the insurance policy they signed because their english isn't as good, which in turn means that they are more likely to complain about it, and that they may have a better chance of suing a company if it's argued that the contract was written in such a manner that it could not be understood, that they were being discriminated against because of their language, and so forth.
Now, it stands to reason that those with a non-native name are more likely to be new citizens, meaning that this is an easy way for a company to eliminate a high-risk, low-guaranteed-income group, with a minimum of effort.
Of course some people are going to try and take this chance. Looking at this in an objective manner one might quite understand how a company could choose this path to maximize their profits.
Just like some companies who insure ceos of large companies will research the risks involved by looking at personality-traits and health, before determining if they are willing to insure the individual, so do these companies look at the risks involved in insuring members of certain demographical groups.
It may not be right and I certainly don't like it, but it makes sense, for totally different reasons than those that would make a teenage girl cry out "discrimination" even though there really was no reason.
Re: Schoolgirl wins Muslim gown case
Quite right, SnnY.
Insurance concerns are totally hidebound by their actuarials.
A regretful fact of that business.