Manker or someone of similar knowledge

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but do you have witnesses to the conversation when the price of the work was agreed upon?

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Yes, me, Azz, his brother , the 2 women that work there, his wife, and the builder who was doing the flat, plus another builder who was getting prices for the tiles AND the supplly manager from one of the food companies.

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I realize that it's a lot of money, and I understand how much that money is needed, believe me I do. But at some point you have to realize how futile it is to continue. You're causing yourself more headaches than it's worth.

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Why? because I wont let someone who has shitloads of money rip me off by several hundred quid?
And yes I'm prepared to take him to court, I'll use a no win no fee place if I have to , I don't care if I get fuck all, I want him to pay what he owes reguardless. He's cost me a lot of time and money and the only job I've ever actually enjoyed.

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Besides, I've already offered you a job. :shifty:

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True :shifty: .............Ohhhhhhh you mean cutting grass? :rolleyes:

I would also like to say, does anyne remember the thread I started when he took over? I said he would push out the staff, you all said I was wrong........turns out different tho huh, I'm the second to leave and the third is on the cards. These people are all the same, they don't give a flying fuck about people , all they want is money.........and I'm afraid that does'nt work in a small town.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by manker

Well there you go. You did a cash job and as a consequence you got ripped off. If you were prepared to pay tax on it then you would have gotten the benefit of the full backing of the law.

That's where you went wrong.


Of course, I do know - better than most - that this is an idealistic way of looking at things but if ever I do a cash job for someone (:o), I make absolutely sure that there is no way in the world I'm going to get ripped off.

You failed to organise the job properly, sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. People are gits.

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So you'd do/done cash jobs?
What if you both agreed on a price and then finished and they changed their minds and only paid you half?
What would you do?

And I organised the job perfectly, the job itself went fine, I got round all problems presented and finished in time.

And yes people are gits..............so am I.

Edit: Oh yeah, he also wrongfully acused me of stealing £200 from the till, so I could take him to court for that too really could'nt I.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

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Originally Posted by manker

Well there you go. You did a cash job and as a consequence you got ripped off. If you were prepared to pay tax on it then you would have gotten the benefit of the full backing of the law.

That's where you went wrong.


Of course, I do know - better than most - that this is an idealistic way of looking at things but if ever I do a cash job for someone (:o), I make absolutely sure that there is no way in the world I'm going to get ripped off.

You failed to organise the job properly, sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. People are gits.

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So you'd do/done cash jobs?
What if you both agreed on a price and then finished and they changed their minds and only paid you half?
What would you do?

And I organised the job perfectly, the job itself went fine, I got round all problems presented and finished in time.

And yes people are gits..............so am I.

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It's easier for me. I have a piece of paper in my hand and refuse to hand it over until I have their money in the other.

In your case, you should have asked for an amount up-front and the rest on completion. Making sure that the amount you receive prior to doing the work is enough to cover all costs. If he refuses then you don't do the job.

That way if he doesn't pay up when you're done - you simply 'undo' the work. You've wasted time but are not financially worse off since you've already made plans to cover your costs.

As to organising the job properly, I'm sorry but you didn't. You should have ensured that the cutter was taken back on time, you should have ensured that you had got some money up front.

Either that or you should have insisted that it was done legitimately so that you could have taken him to court if he refused to pay.

As it is now, they'd laugh at you in court. Seriously. You can't even entertain the idea with no paperwork nor prior self-employed work in the last 18 months to back up your claims.

Edit.

Can't be arsed, I asked a simple question, I did'nt ask to be judged on the way I ran my business or the way I do things.

I'll get whats owed one way or another.

If you don't want to have your private affairs comments on, don't post them and ask for them to be commented on.

You said: 'Jesus how the hell can you say I'm in the wrong???'

I told you how I thought you were in the wrong. If you don't want me to answer, don't ask in the first place.

Muppet :dry:

Actually I asked you about putting in a bill and if I'm still self employed, you them said I'm being dishonest.

So after reading all that and my resignation stating about health risks and bad working conditions you still say I'm in the wrong?

I also asked what you would do if you agreed on a cash job then only got half pay, but you did'nt answer that did you?

Edit: Also you say I'm in the wrong cos I "Should have done this and should have done that" well I did'nt, so you saying what you think I should have done is no help whatsoever is it.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

So after reading all that and my resignation stating about health risks and bad working conditions you still say I'm in the wrong?

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Well, if you can't get him on the money thing, can't you turn him in to some authority for that. :shifty:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

I also asked what you would do if you agreed on a cash job then only got half pay, but you did'nt answer that did you?

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He did.

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Originally Posted by manker

It's easier for me. I have a piece of paper in my hand and refuse to hand it over until I have their money in the other.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

So after reading all that and my resignation stating about health risks and bad working conditions you still say I'm in the wrong?

I also asked what you would do if you agreed on a cash job then only got half pay, but you did'nt answer that did you?

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I'm saying that you did certain things wrong. I'm not saying that you did everything wrong. This is not black and white but if you'd did those other things correctly then you wouldn't have been out of pocket.

Also, it's clear that your boss did more things wrong than you and is an utter git - you have been wronged.


I did answer you. I wouldn't give him the work until he paid the other half. If he didn't pay then I'd still have half the money. Given it's a cash job, I've still made a tidy profit.

I don't do that many because of the nature of my work - they want to claim my fee as a tax-deductible expense in 95% of cases but when it's not an issue, I take certain steps to ensure that I don't end up out of pocket.

No, thats talking about something different, you don't get paid upfront in building very often, only for materials (which he paid for).

And yes I am reporting him to health and saftey and trading standards, also the people who deal with offliscence laws as he sells out of legal hours.
I was'nt going to because I'm generally not like that, but I'm fucked off now so I'm gonna hurt his wallet as much as I can.

@Manker.... lol funny enough it is black and white, and like I said, saying things I can't change is no help at all, I posted in here because I wanted advice and help, not to be told I should have done this or that.
To be perfectly honest I did'nt want to do it, I done it more to help the staff and Azz wanted to do it cos he desperately needed the money due to baby etc, so I done it to help out people, I did'nt do it for the money, but the fact he ripped me off has fucked me right off.

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Originally Posted by Jonno

No, thats talking about something different,

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Obviously, I'm not a fecking builder - that's why I said it was easier for me and outlined what steps you could have taken :frusty:

Then don't fucking tell me how to run a building business! ffs!! :frusty:

You can't get people to pay for labour which has not taken place.........would you pay a builder for labour before they started work?

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Then don't fucking tell me how to run a building business! ffs!! :frusty:

You can't get people to pay for labour which has not taken place.........would you pay a builder for labour before they started work?

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I'm telling you how to administrate it. Not how to lay a floor, I'd be clueless.

If a builder was doing a cash job for me, and it was saving me money, yes, I'd pay some up front if he insisted on it and I trusted him implicitly. However, if it was a big job lasting several days then I'd insist that it was done properly so I could get a receipt and legal rights should anything go wrong.


If you have no way of safeguarding your interests then don't do the job, it's as simple as that. Otherwise, at some point, you'll end up with some arsehole who won't pay.

I don't think you can disagree.

No thats very true, I don't dissagree with that at all.
But like I said, I done it as a favour and in good will expecting the same in return.
I completed my part of the deal, he did'nt. He needs to learn the values of a bond by word. And he will.

Altho I think your opinion can't be very acurate considering you've never been in the trade, it's a very open trade when you work on your own and not for a company, you cut corners for people (not with quality of work), you do people favours if they wish to save money and are willing to pay you cash then you can word out a gentlemens agreement.
There's not a builder in the world who has done everything above board and any that say they have are lying.

As I said, the whole thing was 2 weeks behind, I jumped in to save the day if you like and look where it got me. So what do you do? never do anyone a favour? don't trust anyone? thats why he's like he is, I don't wanna be a heartless wanker who does'nt gove a fuck about anything but my own bank balance, maybe thats why I'll never have much money, but at least I got a clear conscience and and liked.

Sorry for getting wound up, should'nt bite at you guys, but I really feel conned in every sense of the word, time, money, health.......and as my resig letter stated....I never got so much as a thank you for any of it.

Kinda pisses me off and it's not something I'm gonna forget in a hurry.

Jonno :cool:

You're a nice chap, Jonno. You're also naive. I'm really not trying to be nasty or anything, I'm being fairly blunt but I bear no malice.

You know, you can be a nice bloke and administrate your business correctly, the two aren't mutually exclusive. If you were doing people favours and hoping that people would pay you because they were also nice chaps then this situation was sadly inevitable.


As for my opinion not being very accurate. I think you'll find that what I wrote would have prevented you getting ripped off.

I don't walk round thinking if I do good then people will do good back and all that crap, but when it's my boss, a guy I've helped a LOT, I thought considering he's a business man he might have just an ounce of decency. I was wrong.

Had it been a complete stranger I would'nt have done it, I've been asked by a mate to give him a hand concreting his drive and slabbing his back garden, I know he has'nt got much money and I'll do it for very little payment, because I help people, he'd do the same I'm sure.

My problem has always been I'm frightend to upset someone unless I get angry, I done it so many times, fixed things for people that has taken me hours/days and thought they'd give me a few quid or a drink or something.....what do I get? "Cheers mate, nice one" yet I go back for more, but if I turned round and said "Ok I'll do it for £200" I'd feel really guilty, even used to do that with customers to some extent.
I can't be funny or asertive to nice people, hence people take advantage.

This time reguarding my ex-boss is different, he's not a friend nor family member and I hav'nt known him long, respect is given automatically, if that person then does something to lose that respect then.......well........you end up feeling like I do now.

To be honest I don't know what I'm gonna do, but he's not getting away with it, no chance in hell.

Anyway, thanks for advice etc, apreciated even tho it sometimes does'nt seem so.

Jonno :cool:

I know what you mean.

Also, likewise I'm sometimes too blunt and don't really consider the other person's feelings when I'm talking to them on here. It seems like you're going thro' a tough time and I hope it gets better for you.

You could always tell that little toe rag that tried to break into the back shed, what goodies are in there(but that would be wrong) :naughty:

lmao I actually thought about that :lol: but again it would be me responsible should he get caught or something goes wrong.

@Manker.... nuff said dude :) and thanks

Jonno :cool: