If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around..

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Originally Posted by nigel123

I believe you are presuming, that only humans can hear...Other creatures can too..

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Bloody hell, mate. You don't half post some pish.

the best thread ever by crysmileyguy :01:

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by nigel123

I believe you are presuming, that only humans can hear...Other creatures can too..

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Bloody hell, mate. You don't half post some pish.

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Yes, I have been doing it for years now, I doubt if I am capable of changing now...

edit: and luckily, for you, about 2000 post vanished with the change to VB software...

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Originally Posted by nigel123

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Originally Posted by manker

Bloody hell, mate. You don't half post some pish.

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Yes, I have been doing it for years now, I doubt if I am capable of changing now...

edit: and luckily, for you, about 2000 post vanished with the change to VB software...

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Luckily for me :blink:

In what way, pray tell.

..less pish for you to read...

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Originally Posted by nigel123

..less pish for you to read...

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Ohhh.

You appear to be under the misaprehension that the change to VB software from IPB compelled me to read the entire archive of forum posts.

Oh right, that's indeed what I thought, thanks for correcting me :P

It's my forté :happy:

...only one of them, you have many.. :)

:o

Now I feel bad for being an ar5e.

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Originally Posted by Rip The Jacker

I didn't even realize I that sentence rhymed. :P

That question sucks, trees suck, peoms suck, rhymes suck. :)

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do u suck? :naughty:

As an aside, I've submitted the ultra-sounds to Busyman, and he is happy to confirm the appendage is indeed a "Johnson" (he's an expert). ;)

Hobbes-

The plane of my existence is "ultra" in every way, which you already knew.

If you'd turn around occasionally you'd see me waving at you, snob. :P

On the question in question, I'd think the dilemma could be solved for once and all by dispatching a non-entity to roam the wood at issue until a tree falls, with instructions to report whatever finding presents.

We can stay here and chat while this goes on, you see.

There is no tree until someone sees it.

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Originally Posted by Cheese

There is no tree until someone sees it.

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A non-entity with eyes, of course. :rolleyes:

When you're there to hear it it, makes a crashing sound. When no one's there, it makes a sucking sound.

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Originally Posted by Virtualbody1234

When you're there to hear it, it makes a crashing sound. When no one's there, it makes a sucking sound.

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Have you been overclocking your vacuum cleaner for 'personal reasons', again :smilie4:

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Originally Posted by Cheese

There is no tree until someone sees it.

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Cheese=neo

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Originally Posted by enoughfakefiles

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Originally Posted by Cheese

There is no tree until someone sees it.

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Cheese=neo

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:happy:

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Originally Posted by Virtualbody1234

When you're there to hear it it, makes a crashing sound. When no one's there, it makes a sucking sound.

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Ah, has the entity reported back ,then? :P

BTW-

Hardwareworld appears to have spring a leak; be a good lad and tell a mod if you see one?:huh:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Hardwareworld appears to have spring a leak; be a good lad and tell a mod if you see one?:huh:

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I'm not there to see it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Virtualbody1234

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Hardwareworld appears to have spring a leak; be a good lad and tell a mod if you see one?:huh:

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I'm not there to see it. ;)

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Our secret, then. ;)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Hardwareworld appears to have spring a leak

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Are you trying to tempt me out of my retirement from pedantry :smilie4:

If a woman says something and there isn't a man around to hear her say it.........




Is she still wrong :unsure:

Women? Wrong?

Not in your house.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

BTW-

Hardwareworld appears to have spring a leak; be a good lad and tell a mod if you see one?:huh:

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No leak.
What you see is a planned maintenance operation...simply washing down the floors and hosing out the shit.
Done not in the spring, rather, in true l33t fashion, when it is dark and freezing cold (where else but HW world would you see threads w00ting about the freezing temps in a bedroom cause "my PC is lovin it!"?).
Since crap flows downhill you can expect a flood of poop (and probably a Renault too as it turns out) to flow here momentarily.

Were I you, I'd contact FEMA right away.

W00t used as a verb - you're a veritable linguistic pioneer, clocker :01:

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Originally Posted by clocker

Were I you, I'd contact FEMA right away.

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I've contracted with that Miller character's outfit for a consult first.:lol:

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Originally Posted by manker

W00t used as a verb - you're a veritable linguistic pioneer, clocker :01:

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Quite right.

That's the kind of linguistic flexibility I can countenance.:)

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Originally Posted by manker

W00t used as a verb - you're a veritable linguistic pioneer, clocker :01:

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One tries.:blushing:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quite right.

That's the kind of linguistic flexibility I can countenance.

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Awesome!

Majorly.

stop high jacking my topic u cryco wannabes! :cry:

talk about the tree or cryoff :cry:

Trees.

Awesome!

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Originally Posted by Chewie UK

No, what you are referring to is 'hearing'. Deaf people cannot hear. Because they cannot hear a sound does not preclude that no sound is there.

It has always amused me that people (students, mainly) debate this as if they're clever, when all they are doing is proving that they're a little green.

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There is no such thing as "sound", it is a perception.

Does a dog whistle make a sound?

Audible sound is a very narrow band of "frequencies". The width of this band varies from species to species. Our ears simply take the waves of compressed and expanded air and creates this concious thing called sound.

"Sound" is a physical entity meaning that it requires molecules to transmit it from a source to the target.

If the tree is in a vacuum and it falls over, you will not "hear" anything, because there is no air to compress.

So does a tree in a vacuum make sound?

What is interesting is that sound and light were originally defined as separate entities and sound was described as having a certain "frequency", while when referring to light, its properties were described in "wavelength". These labels persist today, but now we appreciate the electromagnetic spectrum.

While one frequency is perceived as "sound" another is perceived as visible light. There is no difference other than how long the wavelength is. So both sound and vision are "perceptions", not real entities.

If you were in a room of all ultraviolet light, you would perceive that it was a pitch black room. Another creature might be shielding it's eyes from the glare.

Is there "light" in the room? No, just electromagnetic energy of a certain frequency. "Light" is what you call it, when you can perceive it. Just like sound is what you call it when you can hear it.

http://www.glenair.com/qwikconnect/v...roSpectrum.gif

I think my zen master would give me an F for this answer, but then again being a zen master doesn't put food on the table, grasshopper.

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Originally Posted by hobbes

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Originally Posted by Chewie UK

No, what you are referring to is 'hearing'. Deaf people cannot hear. Because they cannot hear a sound does not preclude that no sound is there.

It has always amused me that people (students, mainly) debate this as if they're clever, when all they are doing is proving that they're a little green.

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There is no such thing as "sound", it is a perception.

Does a dog whistle make a sound?

Audible sound is a very narrow band of "frequencies". The width of this band varies from species to species. Our ears simply take the waves of compressed and expanded air and creates this concious thing called sound.

"Sound" is a physical entity meaning that it requires molecules to transmit it from a source to the target.

If the tree is in a vacuum and it falls over, you will not "hear" anything, because there is no air to compress.

So does a tree in a vacuum make sound?

What is interesting is that sound and light were originally defined as separate entities and sound was described as having a certain "frequency", while when referring to light, its properties were described in "wavelength". These labels persist today, but now we appreciate the electromagnetic spectrum.

While one frequency is perceived as "sound" another is perceived as visible light. There is no difference other than how long the wavelength is. So both sound and vision are "perceptions", not real entities.

If you were in a room of all ultraviolet light, you would perceive that it was a pitch black room. Another creature might be shielding it's eyes from the glare.

Is there "light" in the room? No, just electromagnetic energy of a certain frequency. "Light" is what you call it, when you can perceive it. Just like sound is what you call it when you can hear it.

http://www.glenair.com/qwikconnect/v...roSpectrum.gif

I think my zen master would give me an F for this answer, but then again being a zen master doesn't put food on the table, grasshopper.

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Sounds like a pretty intelligent design to me. :)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Sounds like a pretty intelligent design to me. :)

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You can "hear" intelligent design?

Sound is "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."

It is also " The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium"

The first and most commonly used one is the former. It is certainly the more commonly used one in the field of physics.

To say that sound is only a perception is like saying waves in the sea are only waves because they can be seen, it's just pish.

"What is interesting is that sound and light were originally defined as separate entities and sound was described as having a certain "frequency", while when referring to light, its properties were described in "wavelength". These labels persist today, but now we appreciate the electromagnetic spectrum."

What in the name of fuck does the electromagnetic spectrum have to do with sound.

"While one frequency is perceived as "sound" another is perceived as visible light. There is no difference other than how long the wavelength is."

What does that mean, you jump from frequency to wavelength.

"So both sound and vision are "perceptions", not real entities."

What about the duality of light, you know "photons" and so forth,

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

Sound is "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."

It is also " The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium"

The first and most commonly used one is the former. It is certainly the more commonly used one in the field of physics.

To say that sound is only a perception is like saying waves in the sea are only waves because they can be seen, it's just pish.

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"Sound" is a what we call specific wavelengths which we can perceive. As I clearly stated, it is a physical transmission of certain frequencies.

Does a dog whistle make a "sound"? Well, it actually just causes the air around it to be compressed at a certain frequency which passes through the atmosphere. If you cannot hear it, do you call it a sound. No "sound" is a label the common man uses to express data he receives from the environment and is restricted by our ability perceive.

The abilty to perceive is limited to a certain narrow spectrum of frequencies.

Why do you call one frequncy "sound" and another "radio waves". It is an arbitrary distinction made from a humans ability to perceive. The only thing that is real is the bands of compressed and expanded air.

Television and radio transmissions are everywhere, can you "hear" them or "see" them? No, you need a receiver which can convert these transmissions into frequencies you can see and hear.

Our world is full of transmitted waves of all different frequencies, if we could perceive them all, it would be deafening/blinding. The ones we can perceive, we call "sound".

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Originally Posted by hobbes

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

Sound is "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing."

It is also " The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium"

The first and most commonly used one is the former. It is certainly the more commonly used one in the field of physics.

To say that sound is only a perception is like saying waves in the sea are only waves because they can be seen, it's just pish.

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"Sound" is a what we call specific wavelengths which we can perceive. As I clearly stated, it is a physical transmission of certain frequencies.

Does a dog whistle make a "sound"? Well, it actually just causes the air around it to be compressed at a certain frequency which passes through the atmosphere. If you cannot hear it, do you call it a sound. No "sound" is a label the common man uses to express data he receives from the environment and is restricted by our ability perceive.

The abilty to perceive is limited to a certain narrow spectrum of frequencies.

Why do you call one frequncy "sound" and another "radio waves". It is an arbitrary distinction made from a humans ability to perceive. The only thing that is real is the bands of compressed and expanded air.

Television and radio transmissions are everywhere, can you "hear" them or "see" them? No, you need a receiver which can convert these transmissions into frequencies you can see and hear.

Our world is full of transmitted waves of all different frequencies, if we could perceive them all, it would be deafening/blinding. The ones we can perceive, we call "sound".

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Your talking pish again, you jump from frequency to wavelength and back. You say things like "Why do you call one frequncy "sound" and another "radio waves". It is an arbitrary distinction made from a humans ability to perceive. The only thing that is real is the bands of compressed and expanded air."

Radio waves are electromagnetic radiation, soundwaves are physical, they are entirely diferent. Guess how they can talk to chaps in space, coz they don't use sound waves they use radio waves. The distinction is anything but arbitrary

Sound is not a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, it is the transfer of energy, through a physical medium. That range is wider than we can perceive, so we call the bit we can perceive "sound".

It's still sound whether someone hears or not.

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

"What is interesting is that sound and light were originally defined as separate entities and sound was described as having a certain "frequency", while when referring to light, its properties were described in "wavelength". These labels persist today, but now we appreciate the electromagnetic spectrum."

What in the name of fuck does the electromagnetic spectrum have to do with sound.

"While one frequency is perceived as "sound" another is perceived as visible light. There is no difference other than how long the wavelength is."

What does that mean, you jump from frequency to wavelength.

"So both sound and vision are "perceptions", not real entities.
What about the duality of light, you know "photons" and so forth,

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"Sound" and "vision" are the labels we put on real entities and these labels are used by our ability to perceive.

There are no absolute entities called "sounds", that is just a label we place on a certain range of frequencies.


Jumping from frequency to wavelength is a historic term. Different fields of science were investigating different entities. One group studying sound/radiowaves found it useful to describe something as having a certain frequency. Another group was studying "light/uv/xray" and described these as having a certain "wavelength". Then it dawned on them that light and sound weren't different entities, but just occupied different areas of this thing called the electromagnetic frequency spectrum.

wavelength= speed/frequency

The label of describing radiowaves in hertz(frequency) and light waves in nanometers (wavelength) is remnant of this history.

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Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley

Me:
"Sound" is a what we call specific wavelengths which we can perceive. As I clearly stated, it is a physical transmission of certain frequencies.

You:[/COLOR]
It is the transfer of energy, through a physical medium. That range is wider than we can perceive, so we call the bit we can perceive "sound".

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What is the argument?