The U.S. has been touted as the "Greatest Country on Earth"...

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

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Originally Posted by manker

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

I beg your forebearance; it must be my latent aversion to Gaullist stuff.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.

Could be.

Or not.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

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He might, if he thought you were actually listening.

Perhaps not.

Tell us what you like about Wales, and how it is superior because it produced Tom Jones.

I'd like to know how you abide that Prince World Cup...whatzizname...Charles? :huh:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The U.S. is a representative republic with a capitalist economy.

As one who denounces any mixing of Christianity with government, and is not himself a believer, you have no credibility or entree to speak of christian "selfishness".
you asked a question and I responded..It was an opinion based on observation, you cannot dismiss it because I am not a christian

I became an atheist, I was once a christian. Don't flatter youself, I don't reject "any mixing of Christianity with government" I denounce mixing religion with government. Even then I don't denounce religious people in government, I denounce religious people in government that think their religious beliefs should trump the constitution. Your attack line is tiresome. Would you say that someone that converted to christianity from atheism had no insight into atheism? would you deny that christ taught to love his fellow man? Was jesus a capitalist that would think it evil for society to put the well being of people over wealth of individuals?


this is a response and not an attempt to steer away from the subject

Given that-

Would you prefer to pay more taxes?
Of course not, I would prefer the taxes we pay where spent wisely in worthwhile areas and we got value for money
.53 of every dollar the government here collects goes to entitlements, .09 to debt service, and about .21 goes to defense.

The remaining .17 could be defined as discretionary, or subject to budgetary whim.
and ?:huh: ...so what?
We work more than most other "civilized" countries already.

That is a subjective opinion, not proven fact

Apart from all that, I think you're attempting to make this thread into something I hadn't intended.

I do find mself wondering what shape opinions in here would take if/when a Democrat sits in the White House.
I'm not trying to shape anything, merely wondering if you are mistaking complaints about the way the country is heading politically and possibly culturally with hating the usa, if you yourself are happy with everything why do you complain about things. Some have more to object to than others. No doubt the tables will turn again so to speak.

Our culture (that which we may be granted to possess, anyway) is belittled as shallow and cheap, and it's influence around the world is loathed even by those who enjoy it.

I think that (generally speaking) this is a universal issue. Many americans reject the culture of others just as others reject ours. We have an attitude of "if you come here you must accept our way of life and not expect us to accept yours, if you don't like it f. off somewhere else"

I agree and regret that the only culture we've managed to export is of the sort meant to generate profit.

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..

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Originally Posted by manker

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

---

Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.

The native Americans, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone Park, the great lakes..


..Hollywood, McDonalds, KFC mmmm.. and then you have CIA, DRM, RIAA :(


erm... well yes, I love the USA ..it's the inhabitants, that's the problem... but for the rest ;)

English..living in the Netherlands

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manker

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

---

Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.

---

Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manker

I'd wonder why the French say 'Vive le Difference!' too, unless they weren't very good with words. Traditionally it's 'Vive la Difference' and refers to how much men and women differ.

I beg your forebearance; it must be my latent aversion to Gaullist stuff.

At least that's my understanding.

I don't think it has any relevance in this thread.

Could be.

Or not.


Btw, who, exactly, is going to allay fears and correct misapprehensions about the US.

Busyman?

---

He might, if he thought you were actually listening.

Perhaps not.

Tell us what you like about Wales, and how it is superior because it produced Tom Jones.

I'd like to know how you abide that Prince World Cup...whatzizname...Charles? :huh:

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The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

Maybe you meant a different World Cup, who knows.

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)

My boyfriend used to be in the RAF, left after 9 years of service and then worked for IBM.
He was in the States both as a member of the military and a member of the public and he doesn't seem to be too enthusiastic about either of them.
He likes Jamaice though.


( He would have typed this himself but he doesn't trust the interweb and also thinks it's for geeks:lol: )

The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

You mean those things on either side of Charles' head aren't handles?

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

G.K. Chesterton once said something to the effect of "Real Americans are fine; it's the IDEAL American causing the problems."

I rather think the same of France.

In any case, you overstate. :P

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Let's hear about Wales.

Perhaps we might persuade Guillaume to offer up on France, too.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by manker

The World Cup doesn't actually have any handles, but I admire your persistence :P

You mean those things on either side of Charles' head aren't handles?

Anyway. I suppose my disdain for this thread is showing. The reason being is because you, the thread starter, show a complete and utter contempt for all things French. I remember I called you a Francophobe a while back. That particular nation is a favourite of mine, I absolutely adore the culture and the people, I go there as often as I can.

I think it's a bit rich for you to make a thread to correct our collective misunderstandings and preconceptions about the US while you hold prejudices about France and seem quite content in your position that France, basically, sucks.

G.K. Chesterton once said something to the effect of "Real Americans are fine; it's the IDEAL American causing the problems."

I rather think the same of France.

In any case, you overstate. :P

Incidentally, I don't harbour any malice toward the US as a nation, I think my first post in the thread shows that.

It has its good points and its bad points. Much like anywhere else :)

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Yes.

Let's hear about Wales.

Perhaps we might persuade Guillaume to offer up on France, too.

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Rather than overstating, I thought I was quite frugal with my words, actually.


If I was to talk about the reality of living in Wales, I don't think the forum could stand it. For a start the revelation that I've never shagged a sheep would render lynx and Rat Faced completely retortless when conversing with me.

I'm not that cruel, bless 'em :)

I'm already happy with the way people on this forum view Wales and to 'big it up' isn't my style.

I could be wrong but I don't think it's Gurahl's, either.

Are you that psychic guy from Britain's psychic challenge?
If not, do you know him?

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Nah. I would think it pretty pathetic that some foreigner would generalize the populace of the third largest country in world as being the same...oh wait.

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Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:

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Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Skweeky1

Are you that psychic guy from Britain's psychic challenge?
If not, do you know him?

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I knew you were going to say that :dabs:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manker

Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:

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Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

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You say about me focusing on a tiny part of your post and expecting it to reflect the whole is wrong, yet you focus on a tiny demographic to show how America is great. I expect that the black folk in Zimbabwe who procured the farmland have a better lifestyle now c.f. what they had before - but is that indicative of life in Zimbabwe.

No.

Next!

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Originally Posted by manker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

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You say about me focusing on a tiny part of your post and expecting it to reflect the whole is wrong, yet you focus on a tiny demographic to show how America is great. I expect that the black folk in Zimbabwe who procured the farmland have a better lifestyle now c.f. what they had before - but is that indicative of life in Zimbabwe.

No.

Next!

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Hmmm.......I don't know if the ability for black folk procure farmland in Zimbabwe is easy or not. Do people that apply themselves have an easier time bettering their lifestyle over there. I can't say.
I might give the average Zimbabwean a better chance over here than there but I am ignorant as to the makeup their country.

Oh and people that start from shit and make better for themselves are not a tiny demographic over here.

I'd rather be here than anywhere else even based on the numbers game.

If I was rich and could live anywhere I wanted in the world I might have a different outlook. As a blue collar worker trying to be rich, this be...the place to be. The amount of oppurtunities is a motherfucka from my perspective.

Next indeed.:happy:

You've gone from 'I'm doing better' to 'Middle class black Americans are doing better' to 'People who start from shit and try to do better'.

That's really what I wanted you to do - broaden the perspective that you were presenting, from the ridiculously narrow "I" to include millions of people.

You do see what I did there, I take it.

Thanks for conforming.


I agree too, since it was part of my initial point. Economically, America can be considered great.

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Originally Posted by manker

You've gone from 'I'm doing better' to 'Middle class black Americans are doing better' to 'People who start from shit and try to do better'.

That's really what I wanted you to do - broaden the perspective that you were presenting, from the ridiculously narrow "I" to include millions of people.

You do see what I did there, I take it.

Thanks for conforming.


I agree too, since it was part of my initial point. Economically, America can be considered great.

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Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.

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As far as who may want to make their own way in a country, I don't hear much "I want to make it in Australia, Canada, or France" but that's only from my POV in America.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.

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As far as who may want to make their own way in a country, I don't hear much "I want to make it in Australia, Canada, or France" but that's only from my POV in America.

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See, that's just it. It's not obvious. Neither is it correct.

The thread is about if America is great or not.

Your previous statements don't work, only last one does. I'll try an analogy to see if it helps :huh:

John Major came from a circus background to be the Prime Minister of the UK.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's just an isolated incident.

John Major and other people of a circus background made some money.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's a tiny demographic.

Lower class people in the UK are given opportunities to make something of themselves - and millions of them do.

Does that make the UK great? Yeah!

Your success <sic> is not what makes America economically great, yours and other middle class black Americans' success does not make America economically great. Tens of millions of people having the opportunity, and taking the opportunity, to make a lot of money, does

Given that this facet is only a small part of a country's economic success, which is in turn only a component of whether America is great or not - you should be able to see how insignificant your own improved lifestyle is in this topic.

Which is my point.

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Originally Posted by manker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Well if the new posts helped you understand, great. This is one of those "imo" or "from my pov" instances where it shouldn't have to be said. America might be the most diverse country in world so I thought certain things were CaptainObvious. Either way, it's good that you get it now.

edit:Oh shit, I did say it.

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See, that's just it. It's not obvious. Neither is it correct.

The thread is about if America is great or not.

Your previous statements don't work, only last one does. I'll try an analogy to see if it helps :huh:

John Major came from a circus background to be the Prime Minister of the UK.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's just an isolated incident.

John Major and other people of a circus background made some money.

Does that make the UK great? Nope. It's a tiny demographic.

Lower class people in the UK are given opportunities to make something of themselves - and millions of them do.

Does that make the UK great? Yeah!

Your success <sic> is not what makes America economically great, yours and other middle class black Americans' success does not make America economically great. Tens of millions of people having the opportunity, and taking the opportunity, to make a lot of money, does

Given that this facet is only a small part of a country's economic success, which is in turn only a component of whether America is great or not - you should be able to see how insignificant your own improved lifestyle is in this topic.

Which is my point.

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It's makes it great for me and other's like me. It's what many immigrants have to say when coming over here.

It's the ability of anyone applying themselves to move up. Sure that be made a blanket statement for Russia but I reckon it's harder.

Not a tiny demographic over here.

A tiny demographic is hitting the jackpot in Powerball or Mega Millions.

You say the rampnat commercialism of America is a fault. How so?

America is made up of different cultures now under one banner. You say that's a fault. I call it a strength. Black American culture doesn't really come from Africa really. Many black Americans don't even identify with Africa so where did our culture come from? Culture doesn't have to be 300 years old to be considered culture.

Culture is in our friends and families and it intermingles with others on a daily basis. Our capitalism is part of our culture and it can have it's evils just like anywhere else in the world :ferengi:. Part of our history was about getting from under Britain's thumb and getting established then almost breaking up. All very significant.

Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and all o dat.

I can see that but thier health plan needs work . I live in Canada but Britian or the Usa , would be a toss up for my second choice .

How we treat our pensioners should be a good guide .

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Originally Posted by Biggles

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.

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Beat you, we get 6 weeks from day 1..

Plus the full flexi with carry forward + or - 37 hours in any 4 week period..

Knew the Agency would lead the pack somewhere... eventually :unsure:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggles

Over 20 years but the trigger for 6 weeks is 10 years (or something of that order).

The punctuality thing clinches it! I am not a morning person. As long as I average my 37 hours a week over a four week period (give or take 14 hours either way) everything is good. Ultimately it is the quality of the input that counts - not activity or attendance.

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Beat you, we get 6 weeks from day 1..

Plus the full flexi with carry forward + or - 37 hours in any 4 week period..

Knew the Agency would lead the pack somewhere... eventually :unsure:

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Quite noice!:D
France has us all beat, however.:(

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by manker

Indeed, it would be pretty pathetic.

Which is why I questioned the validity of you giving details of your lifestyle in a thread about America in general.

'Is America great?'

'Well, Busyman is going on a cruise'.

:huh:

---

Oh fuck, Batman. He focused on a 2-liner out of entire paragraph.:lol: :lol:

Oh I just happen to be an American and there are many others just like me. Middle-class black American and just part of demographic that grew up poor.
I believe my lifestyle and how it changed for the better, makes living in America great. I don't believe my circumstances would have been much better elsewhere.

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I saw a piece on Channel 4 news last year that quoted that movement between "social class" in the US was one of the worst records in the west in recent years.. (The UK wasnt much better).

I have, however, no idea where the figures come from and that should therefore be taken as hearsay.. the fact is it is possible to make money legally in the US and it isnt in many places in the world.

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

I saw a piece on Channel 4 news last year that quoted that movement between "social class" in the US was one of the worst records in the west in recent years..

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Well we have bad, high fat, low fibre diets and small bore domestic waste pipes so we try to keep all movements to a minimum :pinch: