isn't that bad for the clutch though?
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isn't that bad for the clutch though?
No, it isn't.
We're not talking excessive amounts of revs here...I can balance my car (on a hill) at @ 500 RPM...essentially idle speeds.
Besides, the clutch, like brake pads, is considered to be a consumable item-it's meant to be replaced at regular intervals.
My last car (1971 Datsun Z) had over 60K miles on the clutch and it was still fine when I sold it.
I'll be installing a clutch in my new car (1991 RX7) when the weather improves this spring and I expect it'll last just as long.
OK, cheers! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
No wonder there are so many accidents!
You sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?
What a pile of crap!
First off, we're talking about a hill start ... do you even understand what a hill is? Or a start?
Then you say you come to a stop on a hill and sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?
No wonder you drive Japanese crap!
This thread is about a kid learning to drive and you're telling him to sit there balancing the clutch and throttle ... unbelievable!
Anyone learning to drive from you would FAIL their test.
PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.
I see the whole not-putting-the-handbrake-on thing if you're waiting at lights on a hills, but I generally keep it in gear, push in the clutch and hold my foot on the brake pedal.
Pulling off by moving over to the accelerator while releasing the clutch and not rolling backwards isn't exactly a tricky manoeuver.
The heel-toe thing (as I understand it, the racing manoeuvre thing) is something I never do and keeping it stationary using both clutch and accelerator is something I would only do if waiting for a gap in the traffic to turn right when it might be necessary to pull off quickly.
Btw, when I was learning, I was told to apply the handbrake when waiting at lights. It's just that now I feel competent enough not to do so.
That's pretty much what I do.
I've just remembered, one of the reasons you might want to engage the handbrake in a stationary queue is so that if someone shunts you from behind, you don't lurch forward and shunt the guy in front.
I think. :unsure:
Ava, you are clearly a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleQuote:
Originally Posted by clocker
No wonder there are so many accidents!
You sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?
What a pile of crap!
First off, we're talking about a hill start ... do you even understand what a hill is? Or a start?
Then you say you come to a stop on a hill and sit there balancing the clutch and throttle?
No wonder you drive Japanese crap!
This thread is about a kid learning to drive and you're telling him to sit there balancing the clutch and throttle ... unbelievable!
Anyone learning to drive from you would FAIL their test.
PS: WTF has an ebrake got to do with anything anyway? We're talking about a HANDBRAKE here.
Bye.
I googled ebrake when clocker first mentioned it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
I think it's a word that people who want you to think they know a lot about cars use as a direct replacement for handbrake.
It may be a geographical thing...ebrake, handbrake and parking brake are all interchangeable terms as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
It has nothing to do with trying to impress you with my knowledge about cars.
Which is extensive, BTW.:P
:schnauz:Quote:
Originally Posted by clockerIt may be a geographical thing...ebrake, handbrake and parking brake are all interchangeable terms as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
It has nothing to do with trying to impress you with my knowledge about cars.
Which is extensive, BTW.:P
In any case, I think it's impossible for anyone to impress me with their knowledge about cars - JP tried once and half way thro' what for all the world read like a soliloquy, I found myself thinking; 'FFS, get a life, get laid, wanker'.
Good comeback, it saves you digging a bigger hole for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Just drove to work.
During this journey of about 8 miles I had to stop six times- three of these were on inclines of various degree.
Didn't use the handbrake once.
How I failed to leave a trail of carnage and destruction is beyond me.
Sheer dumb luck, I suppose.
See, that's what I'm talking about.
Seems a bit odd engaging the parking brake for stops like that.
I do know some great (sometimes professional) drivers, and I can honestly say that I've never seen anyone use the parking break like that, not for short stops when they weren't actually parking.
EDit: TBH, I somehow imagine that engaging it all the time might be more dangerous, 'cos rather than just pushing down the throttle, and leaving the clutch alone to go again, you now have to focus on disengaging the parking brake as well. One more thing for people to mess up with.
And it seems lazy. Like you drop all control while waiting for a green light.
Vidcc assures us there is "no such thing" as an excellent driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
He may denounce your claim of knowing any who are merely "great", as well.
I await his next post with 'bated breath...:huh:
Had Ava been driving in front of you, you would no doubt have been late arriving.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Had he been behind you, I expect you'd be somewhat injured just now, and your car roont, as well.
Oh, no, wait...he'd have been in the wrong lane.
Never mind...
I admit that I briefly considered attempting to use the hand...fuck it, ebrake as recommended but the entire process seemed so ludicrous and unnatural that I merely smiled and continued to drive as a normal person would.
Perhaps only "jap crap" cars are capable of such refined driving techniques.:frusty:
http://ukadi.blogspot.com/Quote:
UK driving Test
Take the example of a simple mistake of not putting on the handbrake while waiting in traffic. That would be a driver error which will not cause you to fail the test (unless it takes you over the 15 driver error limit). However if the car behind you accidentally bumps you, and your car surges forward a bit without hitting the car in front of you (because you had stopped far enough behind using tyres and tarmac rule), your little mistake is now a serious error due to what you would say is no fault of yours, and you will fail the test. Even if your car does not surge forward when bumped, you are certain to fail the test because your car was not secured when stationary.
Useful hints on sitting the UK driving test.
I thought you guys were talking about pulling away from parking on an incline...not idling in traffic. :blushing:
:shuriken:
This after twice publicly throwing your rattle down and stating you would be ignoring my posts.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
You and I have different opinions as to what makes for a good driver. I used to be close to your present opinion but as I said I had a lot of what I thought made for a good driver dispelled. Making it pertain to this subject, more or less it was put like this.
It's not about being able to multi task with your limbs while driving. If it was then those that say they can talk on the phone with one hand while driving, being able to lean over and change a CD (modern version of an 8 track) while still watching the road, women being able to put their make up on during the drive to work (somehow not crashing so obviously skilled) or changing gear with your elbow would be considered good drivers.
I'm sure you will say that the examples are like chalk and cheese or some other term, but that's not how I see it.
It's not about performing race car tactics as a definition of being an "accomplished" driver that makes for a good driver.
It's about the safety. Not just yours but that of the world outside your vehicle.
Performing race car tactics during a race is designed to cut a fraction of a second off a maneuver. It may well require practice to become accomplished at such a maneuver but it trades off on safety. This trade off is made due to the circumstance of being in a race.
Perhaps a cop in pursuit would use the tactic, but it's a trade off of safety over the need to cut that fraction of a second.
The safest thing would be one pedal one foot. It's a more natural position because of the angle and there is less chance of the foot slipping. The fact that one manages to do it without slipping "so far" does not make it the safest.
So in summation IMO the ability to perform neat little tricks makes for an arrogant driver. The neat little trick makes mistakes more likely so is not the safest.
The Summation as I remember it given to me when talking about various techniques we may wish to employ went something like this.
Obviously safety is traded off just by the act of driving. The question is are you trading safety due to circumstance or the wish for a exhilarating drive?
That last is a complete, utter, and total misapprehension of this entire thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
BTW-
I'd like your "honest opinion" on whether any level of attainable driving ability might warrant use of the term "great", considering you've already ruled out "excellent".
An elliptical aside:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I remember reading an interview with Jackie Stewart during which the journalist (Henry Manney III, David E. Davis?) became so engrossed in the converstaion that he lost track of time and was suddenly faced with an unmakeable deadline to catch his plane.
Stewart offered to drive him and they made record time through horrible London traffic.
What impressed the writer most was not that Stewart could drive fast (doh!), rather, despite the traffic and distance, he could not recall feeling any sensation of acceleration or braking- Stewart was so smooth and controlled that even blitzing through London seemed pedestrian.
That to me epitomises a good (or even great) driver.
Any idiot can go fast- to go fast without seeming effort or brouhaha takes real talent.
Well, proper handbrake etiquette helps as well.
There are "good" race car drivers that make for lousy road drivers, just as there are "good" road drivers that make for lousy race car drivers.
Thank you BB, just what this is all about, a kid taking his driving test.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
Quite right MN, and also stopping on a hill and pulling away again.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicNakor
You Googled that did you?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Rubbish ... period!Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Now you're getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
I repeat ... I have been driving on the road for 43 years, I actually learned to drive in one of my father's Thames Trader trucks when I was 12, taking gravel from the pit to the hoppers. I've driven all over Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia, motorbikes, cars, trucks, cranes, buses, four wheel drives and even a motorised rickshaw. In all that time I have never had an accident, nor as much as a speeding ticket, in fact, my only brush with the law was an $80 fine for not having my license with me, and a $40 fine for not wearing a seatbelt, both offences were 25 kilometres up a gravel road in the middle of the Great Dividing Range, driving a kilometre to a mate's house, the first cops I'd ever seen on the road. I've driven left hand drive vehicles on right hand drive roads and right hand drive vehicles on left hand drive roads. I raced Mini Coopers and Lotus Cortinas from the ages of 17 to 22, and still race go-karts. So if you seriously think I give a shit about childish taunts from someone who would come into a thread from a young kid taking driving lessons, and tell him it's OK to start off his driving with bad habits, you're sadly mistaken. I'll put my driving record against yours any day. A good driver is a safe driver, not a cocky show-off, as you seem to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I tried the heel/toe braking/accelerating thing last night on my way home, and almost crashed into a ditch :dabs:
The problems were twofold:
1). My foot appears to be too long.
2). The pedals are at different heights.
I think I'll stick to proper driving from now on :dry:
So, you've done lots of driving in places where there no one was in attendence save perhaps some Sherpas and a scattering of sheep and rabbits, and certainly no rules or police.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
Other than that, we may gather you are in your mid-fifties, and as yet unable to face facts.
This last is not news.
I'll tell you what:
Give yourself the vehicle of your choice, and me one just like it, and I'll catch you...then I'll drive around in front of you all day long - how's that work for you?
These impediments are occasionally encountered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa
Perhaps the hand-brake might be of use. :dabs:
It occurs to me that nothing in this paragraph specifically mentions a manual transmission so I can only assume that when driving an automatic you guys put it in PARK and engage the handbrake at traffic stops as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
Right?
Yeah, thought not.
I wondered how long it would take for something as peurile as that to pop up, you never disappoint. Ask your dad if he'd like to fight my dad.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
So, you lost the argument for the manual gearbox, now you want a shot at automatics. Have you ever driven one, or are they a bit new for the age of cars you drive?Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
*sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleSo, you lost the argument for the manual gearbox, now you want a shot at automatics. Have you ever driven one, or are they a bit new for the age of cars you drive?Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
You failed to address the question.
Hardly anyone does (bad habits once they pass their test), however the correct thing to do (depending on what "stop") is put it in neutral with the handbrake engaged;)Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by vidccHardly anyone does (bad habits once they pass their test), however the correct thing to do...Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
If it looks like I will be stopped for more than a fleeting second I usually do. (use neutral) Not every "stop" requires it.Quote:
Originally Posted by clockerDo you?Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
of course after you pass your test you can operate with all the bad habits you desire
I meant do you "secure the car when stationary", i.e., apply the parking brake at stop signs/lights.
Each situation is different. I will in a queue or if the lights have changed to red, but if I come to a stop sign where I can see the junction is "clear" or lights that have changed to green and it looks like I will be moving away almost immediately then I wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
( A green light doesn't mean go, it means proceed if your path is clear to do so)
Interesting.
In my entire life I have never seen anyone- irregardless of transmission type- apply the parking brake at a traffic stop.
Personally:
Stop on flat: foot on brake and clutch while stopped and then just balance accelerator/clutch and move off
Stop on medium incline for short time: either same as above, or balance clutch and accelerator for duration
Stop on medium incline for longer time: either foot on brake or use hand brake
steep hill: hand brake most of the time, unless v short in which case i might balance it.
I prefer using the brakes to balancing it, not because its hard to balance, i just think its better for the clutch & the environment, (my car idles faster than the speeds clocker balances at!)
never heard of heel & toe being used in a hill start, what benefit do you gain in comparison to quickly changing to balancing or using the handbrake?
I can believe that. Not because it's the correct thing to do but because once people pass their test they pick up bad habits. It depends on which state or which examiner one gets but in the US the road test is very lax. I would imagine that most people would fail their road test ( where the test is a proper test) if they drove in their normal way with their "habits".Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
crossing hands when making a turn, sometimes only use the one hand. not keeping hands at "10 to 2". sitting in traffic in gear instead of neutral until ready to move. riding the clutch. Talking on phones, smoking, eating and drinking while driving. sitting in the wrong lane, bad signaling, driving too close, speeding ......the list goes on.
In the us driving is almost considered a competitive sport. Police pursuits are aggressive and often using physical contact to ram the driver being chased off the road. This is very different to how it's done in other countries where the police keep a safe distance and control the situation. In such places the risk to others is reduced and casualties are fewer with no loss of capture success.
I won't say that once they have passed their test in the UK those drivers are better drivers than those in the US, but I will say that the standard required to pass the test in the UK is a lot higher than the standard in the US
I think the worst place for driving (that I've experienced) is India where the only rule seems to be the biggest vehicle has right of way, even if on the wrong side of the road.
Sounds like a lovely place, the U.K.; certainly better in every way than the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
I'd go see for myself, but I'm sure they wouldn't let me in, crude bugger that I am. :dabs:
Or are you just afraid you won't want to leave, thus crushing all your prejudices against Britain?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I thought that automatic cars did not have a parking brake as such. When I stopped at traffic lights I just put the gear lever to 'Park'. I think. My memory is not what it used to be.:) So they tell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker