What's wrong with his statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
Did you take a wrong turn on the way to the lounge?Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy1
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What's wrong with his statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleDid you take a wrong turn on the way to the lounge?Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy1
You say footie is too boring - yet you also mention baseball. You've said before that you find watching a game of baseball boring. Yet it caught on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™Americans don't care if it's foreign player or not. We care if the player is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
Dirk Nowitzki is a German and many thought he should have won the MVP last year in the NBA.
However, soccer just doesn't get it over here and even with Beckham, it still won't get it. It's not a hope, it's an observation. We barely tuned into the World Cup.
I thought it odd that DC United was trying to build a huge soccer stadium in DC for the same reasons and many thought the same about the new Nationals stadium.
Besides that, if the 250 mil is over 5 years and includes endorsements that doesn't surprise me at all. It would have been surprising if it was all LA Galaxy salary since soccer does shit over here in comparison to other sports.
Regarding your phrase in bold, I totally agree. He can due to soccer being so unpopular. American marketers are probably the most resourceful ever but this will be a tough nut to crack. There will probably commercial after commercial and many news bits to push Beckham and soccer in Americas face.
Ultimately though, cracking basketball and football will prove too hard. Americans view soccer as much too boring in comparison and sitting through an entire match will be like watching snails fuck.
Mmmk, Roderick?
I see that you're opinion is that soccer won't take over there but it appears that your opinion isn't shared by the people who have actually put their money where their mouth is - rather than merely talking shite on a mesage board.
I'm more inclined to think they have it right, rather than take on board your 'I think soccer is boring so every other American prolly does as well' point of view.
Beckham, an Englishman, might just have the drive and appeal to galvanise the US into a team which could seriously challenge for the World cup in twelve years time. He's certainly putting his heart and soul into it, as evinced by his academy.
I think America should be grateful.
Okay there are people that think shuffleboard and curling are the shit. So what? Baseball is also the oldest of our big three. Notice also that it is the last of the big three in popularity.Quote:
Originally Posted by mankerYou say footie is too boring - yet you also mention baseball. You've said before that you find watching a game of baseball boring. Yet it caught on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
I see that you're opinion is that soccer won't take over there but it appears that your opinion isn't shared by the people who have actually put their money where their mouth is - rather than merely talking shite on a mesage board.
I'm more inclined to think they have it right, rather than take on board your 'I think soccer is boring so every other American prolly does as well' point of view.
Beckham, an Englishman, might just have the drive and appeal to galvanise the US into a team which could seriously challenge for the World cup in twelve years time. He's certainly putting his heart and soul into it, as evinced by his academy.
I think America should be grateful.
How is it that I'm talking shit when I point out something? Baseball is having a hard time in many areas as well, Rodman. I'm actually hoping that the Nationals stadium and a DC United stadium are successful. I like the fact that I'll be able to go to pro soccer, football, baseball, hockey and basketball matches by just going down the road (or on the subway).
It'll be a nice change of pace.:)
Looking at the Beckham deal, American marketers mentioned his salary plus endorsements as one deal for hype purposes which was smart. However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.
It's just too tough a nut to crack.
Oh I'm sure that LA is grateful the Beckham put a soccer academy there.:crazy:
I'm not saying that you're talking shit, I said that you're talking shite on a message board (in stark contrast with people who put up cash money), which is different. I often say that I post pish - but, of course, I don't mean that the content of my posts is akin to urine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™Okay there are people that think shuffleboard and curling are the shit. So what? Baseball is also the oldest of our big three. Notice also that it is the last of the big three in popularity.Quote:
Originally Posted by manker
How is it that I'm talking shit when I point out something? Baseball is having a hard time in many areas as well, Rodman. I'm actually hoping that the Nationals stadium and a DC United stadium are successful. I like the fact that I'll be able to go to pro soccer, football, baseball, hockey and basketball matches by just going down the road (or on the subway).
It'll be a nice change of pace.:)
Looking at the Beckham deal, American marketers mentioned his salary plus endorsements as one deal for hype purposes which was smart. However, when it comes down to it, besides Beckham getting something out it, soccer won't put a decent gain up against NFL football where average attendence is about 70,000 (the Washington Redskins was close to 90,000 even with the ticket hikes), the NBA with and average of about 17,000 across 40 games and the MLB with about 30,000.
It's just too tough a nut to crack.
Oh I'm sure that LA is grateful the Beckham put a soccer academy there.:crazy:
'Shite' and 'pish' are inter-changable with 'stuff' in this context.
I do see that your opinion is based on your own view that you're a stereotypical US sports fan who wants high scores and a win/lose outcome every time - but I think times are changing and with the right marketing approach, you'll discover that American kids are just the same as kids everywhere else.
They'll grow to love football if they are exposed to it as much as kids everywhere else.
We won't know who is right and who is wrong for another ten years, mind :dabs:
I agree the marketing has to be there. However, there are a number of things going against the MLS.Quote:
Originally Posted by mankerI'm not saying that you're talking shit, I said that you're talking shite on a message board (in stark contrast with people who put up cash money), which is different. I often say that I post pish - but, of course, I don't mean that the content of my posts is akin to urine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
'Shite' and 'pish' are inter-changable with 'stuff' in this context.
I do see that your opinion is based on your own view that you're a stereotypical US sports fan who wants high scores and a win/lose outcome every time - but I think times are changing and with the right marketing approach, you'll discover that American kids are just the same as kids everywhere else.
They'll grow to love football if they are exposed to it as much as kids everywhere else.
We won't know who is right and who is wrong for another ten years, mind :dabs:
1. The season starts during basketball season. In fact it's at the end of basketball season when it heats up and then the playoffs.
2. It goes up against the start of baseball.
3. It goes up against summertime which is dreadful for any sport over here. We are busy with travel and all the kids are outta school.
4. It goes up against the beginning of football season.
Hell I remember the tagline at the end of our World Series in baseball.
"Hey guess what everyone? The Cardinals won the World Series."
The problem is that although soccer is the most popular sport in the world I don't think other countries have that many dominate sports.
Hell our college basketball and football seasons are killer.
Over here there is so much different shit to choose from that soccer would have to supplant another sport in popularity. Hmmmm hockey........
Btw, after the lockout, hockey changed their rules to provide more scoring therefore skewing the record books. I wonder if the MLS will get desperate enough to do something like that. Perhaps a bigger goal?:no:
Oh fuck I forgot one of the biggest killers of them all.
Lack of commercials. We are a market driven country. Marketers pay the cost, tv watchers benefit.
What are you talking about. He was replying to manker's post which was in relation to the relative wages of the player's. In which manker pointed out that Beckham would be earning about twice as much a day as most of them earned a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleBad choice of word there .. it's business, no-one would offer that money if they weren't sure they would earn even more for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Monk
CEOs who bring companies to the brink of disaster and then pick up millions in compensation when they get the sack is obscene.
It is not totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleTotally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
There is far more to Beckham than there ever was to Pele, and I'm not talking about football.
AEG, one of the chief financiers here, are also backers of the Beckham Football Academies which will become huge earners over the coming years.
In each case, a foreign player is imported with the intent/hope of improving the game's lot in the U.S.
They certainly aren't bringing him along purely because they can't imagine another investment for their money...I'm quite sure they feel Beckham offers the best chance to popularize the game here.
In any case, considering it's already been tried, Beckham is merely the second candidate for the task, albeit one more suited to play all of the endorsement angles as well, and there is definite merit in his personal efforts through his academy.
I would imagine he'll make a bit of a splash, given his wife (a small property, in the overall scheme of things) and his appeal to women.
I don't see a huge "gold-rush" over your game, though, sorry.
I actually wish it were otherwise, believe it or not.
Hell yes. It would mean that the plans for the stadium in DC would be a no-brainer since it would then be viable.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4It is not totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
In each case, a foreign player is imported with the intent/hope of improving the game's lot in the U.S.
They certainly aren't bringing him along purely because they can't imagine another investment for their money...I'm quite sure they feel Beckham offers the best chance to popularize the game here.
In any case, considering it's already been tried, Beckham is merely the second candidate for the task, albeit one more suited to play all of the endorsement angles as well, and there is definite merit in his personal efforts through his academy.
I would imagine he'll make a bit of a splash, given his wife (a small property, in the overall scheme of things) and his appeal to women.
I don't see a huge "gold-rush" over your game, though, sorry.
I actually wish it were otherwise, believe it or not.
Right now it's up in the air.
The average MLS gate now is 16,000, it won't be long before it overtakes NBA. Football is also the biggest participator sport in the US for 8 - 15 year olds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
They showed the Superbowl on English TV some years ago, and for something to do, I got my stopwatch out and timed the actual 'action', that part where the players moved. I started the clock when the guy passed the ball under his nuts, and stopped it when the whistle blew. At the end of the game there was seven and a half minutes on the clock, with the average 'play' lasting around 8-9 seconds. This feast of action took over three hours! No wonder morbidly obese 'brick walls' get to play the game, my grannie could run around for seven and a half minutes in three hours, and she's 107.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
How do you know what he meant, did you ask him? And for your information, I know what he was saying, and my answer stands ... the wrong choice of words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Part of me wants soccer to take off in America because, to be honest, it's about time they started playing proper sports. Lets send some of our failing rugby and cricket players over as well and then they can get rid of American Football and Baseball.
However, part of me wants it all to fail because if the Americans becoming a footballing power they might try and ruin the beautiful game like they tried to do in '94 by asking for extra advert breaks, trying to make the goals bigger, proposing scrapping or simplifying of the offside rule and wanting all drawn games decided by penalties. Diana Ross missing that penalty was pretty embarrassing as well.
Fair enough, it doesn't make sense in the context but you stick by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleHow do you know what he meant, did you ask him? And for your information, I know what he was saying, and my answer stands ... the wrong choice of words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Of course it makes sense, he\she used a word in a context I don't agree with, or are you claiming it doesn't make sense to disagree with him\her?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Nah, can't be arsed with that nonsense just now, Billy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleOf course it makes sense, he\she used a word in a context I don't agree with, or are you claiming it doesn't make sense to disagree with him\her?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
:lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleThe average MLS gate now is 16,000, it won't be long before it overtakes NBA. Football is also the biggest participator sport in the US for 8 - 15 year olds.
They showed the Superbowl on English TV some years ago, and for something to do, I got my stopwatch out and timed the actual 'action', that part where the players moved. I started the clock when the guy passed the ball under his nuts, and stopped it when the whistle blew. At the end of the game there was seven and a half minutes on the clock, with the average 'play' lasting around 8-9 seconds. This feast of action took over three hours! No wonder morbidly obese 'brick walls' get to play the game, my grannie could run around for seven and a half minutes in three hours, and she's 107.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
You know very little about the NBA then.
The NBA has 32 teams. The MLS....less than half that at 13.
NBA teams play a whopping 82 games vs. 30 MLS games.
So when you compare the gate, compare home games (41 vs. 15) and the number of games that sustain that average. Also add to that that basketball is an arena game, soccer is a stadium game.
One reason football averages 70,000 per match is because there are only 8 home games per team. Imagine a 70,000 turnout across 40 games. It wouldn't happen.
Regarding football, I somewhat agree. I tivo football games and can usually watch a game in 50 minutes cuz I skip commercials and the 30 of the 40-second play clock. I'm gonna do it today with the playoff games. I just do something else while it records and can usually catch up to the live broadcast.
I remember Dominic Purcell made a remark at the SuperBowl that he loves the game but it has too many stops and starts (he played Aussie football). I do like coach's challenges though. It's just pure drama.
However, football players run at balls out speed for the play then get a 30-40 second rest then run it again (if they go no huddle then even less). Add to the fact that it ain't just about running but pummeling and it's a tough game.
So your grannie...scratch that....you wouldn't last past 2 plays cuz either your head would be knocked off by one of those morbidly obese brick walls or you'd pass out cuz you found out that running as hard as you can ain't the same as a paced run.
Regarding the biggest participator for 8-15 year olds, I can see that. It's one of the easiest games for kids to pick-up on. I played when I was in school too. My little girl has been progressing quite well.
I really don't give a fuck whether the US takes up football or not, as someone said earlier, if they did they'd try to change the rules and make it as boring as the rest of the American sports no-one else plays. World Series! :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
We are in agreement regarding whether or not the US jumps on soccer. However it would be nice to go to a match sometimes. I also agree that they might change the rules to gain more of a market. If people start watching though than it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleI really don't give a fuck whether the US takes up football or not, as someone said earlier, if they did they'd try to change the rules and make it as boring as the rest of the American sports no-one else plays. World Series! :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
They did that with hockey already (basically moved lines for more scoring oppurtunities) and they've done it numerous times in the NBA....they added the 3 pointer, moved the 3 point line, changed the charge zone, changed the illegal defense call, added the play clock, etc. They did it all in an effort to move the game along. They even allowed teams to advance the ball past half-court after a time-out when under a minute left in the game (I hate that rule although it has provided some intense moments).
You did no such thing, I merely pointed out that if the average gate for the MLS passed 17,000 it would pass the NBA, whatever else you come up with is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
The clock stops in rugby, they get a full 80 minutes of running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
No they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Yes it is, and they don't wear kevlar body armour and crash helmets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Again, the NFL hits are harder, the players bigger, and dynamic of the game is more punishing on the body. Rugby, and soccer for that matter, win in the constant endurance department but there is no comparison when you've got the blindside hits and crushes of the NFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleYou did no such thing, I merely pointed out that if the average gate for the MLS passed 17,000 it would pass the NBA, whatever else you come up with is irrelevant.
Pointing out that the average would overtake then NBA is irrelevant then since the MLS plays less than half the games. dUh!:1eye:dUh!
The clock stops in rugby, they get a full 80 minutes of running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Mmk. So every time there's a stoppage in play the ref stops the clock. That's different than what I've seen on rugby matches on TV.:smilie4:
No they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Again, I've seen that in matches on TV. Now I know about the penalties where you can't pick up the ball while unless you are standing but I've seen them penalize for tackling too hard. I can't say it's the rule book that way but that was how it was on TV. It's pussy rule just like the bullshit roughing the passer crap in the NFL.
Yes it is, and they don't wear kevlar body armour and crash helmets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
One example I've seen is that if a player is running down field in rugby, an opposing pretty much always will try to rap him up to tackle him.
In the NFL, they concentrate on Mack Trucking the running whenever possible. Many NFL try to do this too much and the runner gets away but when it away...ewwwwwwww!
I think this is due to different dynamics of each game. I mean a rugby player then has to release the ball. In the NFL, the opposing player is trying to knock you out to make you fumble and as mentioned before with the receiver going across the middle, many times it's simply to deliver a crushing hit.
All of this with the pads and helmets no doubt.
The averages are PER GAME, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the number of games played. :frusty:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
No you haven't, there's no such rule.Quote:
I've seen them penalize for tackling too hard.
They have BODY ARMOUR and CRASH HELMETS! How many injuries per game in the NFL, and how many deaths from being hit? Have a look at the injury list from rugby, and the deaths.Quote:
Again, the NFL hits are harder, the players bigger, and dynamic of the game is more punishing on the body.
I have no idea. I know the injuries would be higher without the pads and helmets. I understand that it takes some toughness to tackle a player with no protection but you seriously over rate football protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
While helmets alleviate cracks in the skulls, football has concentration on delivering crushing hits versus just simply stopping your opponent and he get hurt incidentally. I've seen some huge hits in rugby but it's not the norm.
He has a point Ava, rugby players are taught to use the minimal force possible when tackling.
Particularly those rugby league chaps, they're just poofs.
[QUOTE=Busyman™;1663483]I really can't believe you're this thick, are you on some sort of medication?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
If a team played two games and got 10,000 at one game and 12,000 at the other, their average gate would have been 11,000.
If another team played ten games and their gates were 10,000, 11,000, 12,000, 9,000, 11,000, 10,000, 13,000, 9,000, 12,000 and 13,000, their average gate would have been 11,000 also.
The number of games, when working out an average, is irrelevant.
:frusty: :frusty: :frusty:
[QUOTE=Ava Estelle;1663505]Overtaking an average is irrelevant when talking about the success of one league in comparison to another when they play less than half the gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Oh fuck no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
I've seen those rugby hits and they can be huge bell-ringers. Especially those head to the gut tackles.
I love it when I can get around to watching it.
But when I see some receiver jump for a pass and he gets helicoptered or blindsided like a tackle dummy it just seems worse.
Chaps, one of you is talking average gates and one is talking total gates. Either is a reasonable figure to use, so long as you compare like with like.
Unsurprisingly Busy uses total as that will equate to the total revenue and everything is about how much is earned. Equally Billy is using average because he's being obtuse and it's the best way to wind Busy up. He also gets to call someone stupid loads of times, even tho' it's him who's continuing the confusion rather than clearing it up.
Point is tho' how many of those hits will a receiver take per game. I agree it does look more dramatic as a one off, however over the course of a game who would take the greater pounding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™Oh fuck no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
I've seen those rugby hits and they can be huge bell-ringers. Especially those head to the gut tackles.
I love it when I can get around to watching it.
But when I see some receiver jump for a pass and he gets helicoptered or blindsided like a tackle dummy it just seems worse.
There's also the point that there are three teams in Football (per side) so attackers tend not to also defend. A rugbyist will be expected to not only take all of those hits, he will need to give them out as well.
I even explained it in post 54.:dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
[youtube]2VsbJNtxHL0[/youtube]Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP FugleyPoint is tho' how many of those hits will a receiver take per game. I agree it does look more dramatic as a one off, however over the course of a game who would take the greater pounding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
There's also the point that there are three teams in Football (per side) so attackers tend not to also defend. A rugbyist will be expected to not only take all of those hits, he will need to give them out as well.
The only time an offensive player plays defense and vice-versa is on turnover.
Bollocks, I've said the same thing throughout this thread, the average gate, you'd need to be thick not to understand, oh, wait ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
[youtube]qAS5fMSgWHo[/youtube]
....and I explained average gate means shit unless you compare like with like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleBollocks, I've said the same thing throughout this thread, the average gate, you'd need to be thick not to understand, oh, wait ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Otherwise, like you tried to convey, it's irrelevant.
About soccer in America...
Seems to me that I've been hearing that soccer (football, whatever) was going to be the next Big Sport here for over thirty years now.
All it was supposed to take was a generation of kids growing up with the game and turning into adult fans...so what happened?
Global warming. :dabs: :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Next step
Victoria in Hollywood movie (choose your topic)
Beckham in Hollywood movie (choose your topic)
step after that
Beckham has an affair with Paris Hilton
Viktoria joins scientologists and has affair with Cruise
Viktoria sues Beck
Beck sues Cruise and Hilton
Vik looses
Beck wins
they move back to Islington with tons of cash
Goal.
They started watching soccer and then remembered the excitement they had with the NBA and NFL and so put soccer on ignore.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
[youtube]IEi_bN49bKo[/youtube]
:pinch:
I don't think soccer will ever be big in the US either.
No offence intended but you chaps simply don't appreciate the subtle.
How can it compete with armoured men, throwball and rounders.
To each their own.
YetQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
that is why they pushed in Beckham,
for
he is the chosen one, (voice from matrix)
from that day on all football players will be handsome, their wives sideline cheerleaders, so that the world can be united in one united monogamous sport, watched and promoted by LA stars.
He is the link.
Although i think selling him to China would have better consequences per capita.
I work with 2 guys that played soccer in college and they said something similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
He said when you watch a soccer match, that a player could do this little thing or move and soccer fans would say "Ohhhhhh" but the average joe would just look and say it's no big deal.
I have to admit that it might be that once you've got things like
the long bomb
the hail mary
the blocked punt or field goal
the punt return for a touchdown
the bone crushing blind-side hit on a receiver
and the trick plays of football
or
the buzzer beaters
the alley-oops
the dunk in the face
the shaken ankles
the give and go
the steals
and the behind the back passes of basketball
then it's very hard to watch a soccer match. I think that one thing that makes soccer exciting for fans is the anticipation of a goal.
I do however love when a player shakes the hell out of an opposing player and makes him fall. Doing it with the hand like in basketball is one thing but with the feet is simply amazing.
Tbh, I can't imagine baseball taking off if it was invented well after the other . Who knows?:idunno:
I am curious though. What makes a spectator lose it at a soccer match?
What makes you jump up and go "WOW!", besides a goal or the aforementioned shake, obvious meant.
Sometimes basketball and football have me exhausted. I just can't see the subtle doing that. One of those former soccer players at work pointed out also that although it's much harder to score a goal in soccer, basketball and football are far more complex games.