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i don't understand what are you sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by volp
so way Jews talking about" Nazism" and "crematorium" it now i think more than 60 year did u forget crematorium :shutup:Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
i didn't forget anything.
one must not forget such things
first things first :)
it's not a war my friend we just talk here and you more than welcome to comment and participateQuote:
Originally Posted by omarsz
yes let's make a commentQuote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
my friend - allow me to call you friend :) -
this mufti isn't represent all Muslims as Hitler not represent all Germans.
but let's put our selves in this man shoes
-i hope I'm using the right term :) -
this man look around him ; his country under British occupation and the British help the jews to come to his country and take his land
arabs under occupation too they can't help him
Europe want to get rid of jews by sending them to middle east and in their mind they hoped - they were right actually-
Arabs and jews extinct by each other hands
"get rid of them both"
there is no where to go
here in this moment and with all the killing that isreali did when they first came to Palestine as you saw by yourself in dir yassin and else
Hitler came to the picture giving him a helping hand saying to him " help me and I'll help you, we have the same problem ...i will get rid of all the jews even those in your country"
the man who has no where to go ,no one to help him agreed
what you gonna do if you are him ... drop dead .. leave your lands for outsiders coming from Europe saying Palestine is their land .
this man was mislead like all those who went and killed your people and their selves at the same time why?
because you didn't give them another way
what a man can do when you killed his kids and his neighbors,took his land from him, deprive him from water,food even medication .
you said you are surrounding by Arabs and they want to kill you .
who in the Arabs has your power and you name him equal so he can come and fight you.
you one of most advanced countries in the world
you have advanced tanks ,best air force in the Mideast,
man, you have nuclear missiles.
and you say you afraid of Arabs
you want to live in peace ,Arabians also want to live in peace
give them their land ,obey UN resolution 242 , listen to the Arabian initiative which said " all Arabian countries will make peace with isreal and isreal will give the occupied land back"
what you want more than that .
peace for our land .
i guess it's a fair trade :)
well,Quote:
Originally Posted by SneeYeah. It's not as if Egypt runs anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. And let's not talk about the Saudis, real paragons of tolerance they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfaller
if there are anti-jewish cartoons in our newspapers
this is free speech you know they can write what they like
democracy, you know this term
anti- jewish tv shows ; also free speech you cannot ban tv shows and newspapers because you don't like what they are writing.
i want to stop here for a moment and talk about something i guess it's important.
equal measures ; see
two years ago - i guess- a danish newspaper published a cartoon that mock the prophet of Islam and when Muslims asks them to apologize their response was " there is nothing to be sorry about, it's free speech we can say whatever we like" and all European countries stood behind this paper
now why don't you do the same when it comes to an Arabian newspaper
I'm calling for equal measures, I'm asking you to be fair
is it hard to be fair ?!!!!!!!
ooh ,i almost forgot Saudi Arabia ,
the king of Saudi Arabia is the one who declared the Arabian initiative which said " all Arabian countries will make peace with isreal and isreal will give the occupied land back"
so they don't want war .
i think you got me
and don't forget "equal measures"
Most Israelis are not particularly religious.
The main problem is that two distinct peoples want the same bit of land. This is a pretty intractable problem. The Jews had good reason to flee Europe and Russia and it is perhaps not surprising that they gravitated back to their ancestral homeland. As has often been the case in history, when one displaced group moves it impacts on another group.
This is not a new situation and history has shown that land disputes are not easily resolved. The religious aspect is merely a current manifestation of the problem. In the 50s and 60s the Palestinians did not make a big deal about being Muslim. The Jihadist mentality is a relatively recent development from the 1980s. Such religious movements come and go and may not be that important in the long run. The land issue will, however, remain until an equitable solution that is acceptable to both sides is found.
However, much either side would like the other to simply disappear it is not going to happen. Accepting that fact would be a good starting point for discussions. It goes without saying that both sides in a conflict are guilty of acts they would rather forget. The trouble with revolutions and conflicts generally is that they give opportunity to those who like that sort of thing.
silverfaller, check the definition for democracy
also, this mufti did represent the majority of the palestenians
and yes we have an advanced army, and its mostley for deterrent.
if we didn't have such a good army (and i assum thats what u and every other muslim would want) what do you think all the other arab countries would have done somewhere over the years?
and i don't htink you should try to justify terrorists, and hitlers friends
protection of speech see it protection of speechQuote:
Liberal Democracy
Liberal democracy is a representative democracy along with the protection of minorities, the rule of law, separation of powers, and protection of liberties (thus the name liberal) of speech, assembly, religion, and property. Conversely, an illiberal democracy is one where the protections that form a liberal democracy are either non-existent, or not enforced.
i think you now see it
once again
you read what you like to read .
and you talk like you are inside my mind and you know me for years .
all I'm asking isreal to do is to obey the international law and give the occupied land back.
why you don't want to give the land back .
why you just ignore international law if it is not in your benefit and use it if it help you to take more.
you want peace just give the occupied lands back
u listen to international laws when its in your interest
u say we must give your allegedly land back, but u don't say its wrong to be terrorists and kill who ever doesn't want to do as u say
we must obey all the international laws which are in favor of the muslims, thats clear.
don't forget the "no terror" law
and i don't think democracy means u canruns anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. i think it means u need to respect the minority too.
and i don't know you and i don't wanna know you either
Israel returning to the boundaries set for them in 1947/48 would be a good starting point for peace negotiations. A lot of Israelis and a lot of Palestinians would disagree with this. I honestly think that the majority on both sides would agree in the cause of a peaceful settlement. The setting up of an exclusion zone round these borders, policed by th UN forces would be a help to maintaining lasting peace.
It's all a trick. A trick by the rich. The rich Americans, the rich arabs & the rich Israelis.
The poor of each country is taught to hate the others.
The rich sit back in private. Sometimes all 3 together. And they laugh at the poor.
bigbob u should check the history of occupations in this territory, some territories which where "designated" to the palestinians were occupied by egypt and jordan, then israel occupide it in wars those arab countries started.
none should be given away. main cities where built there.
its clear to me u don't know many things. i will not explain on offhand cos you won't get a clear view on the whole story.
Hardly anyone believes me.
It's class struggle. With dodads & razzmatazz thrown in to fool the ignorant.
here is a brief description of what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCv_2...related&search=
If you believe all that rubbish then I am sorry for you.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
I'm sick of these threads where nothing come up beside the fact that you both brain watched
When will you pull your head out of your ass and realise YOU are a part of the problem..
I think that is what most of us are trying to say.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by meo
what you just mentioned above is what all arabian countries asking forQuote:
Originally Posted by bigboab
thanks for your comment
good theoryQuote:
Originally Posted by zapjb
dear, if this thing confirm any thing it will confirm that Palestine was never been yours in the first place and you are just snatched it.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
we are not a part of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by meo
see, all arabians ask for the freedom of the occupied lands under the 242 UN RESOLUTION .
we said this more than millions times but no one want to listen.
@torrentt
i will tell you this for the last time and please open your heart for my words and forget that I'm Arabian.
when you came to Palestine bad and terrible things happened
Europeans' governments sent you hoping that you and the Arabians will finish each other off .
i guess they were right.
don't forget that Egypt is the one who started the peace process with your country and don't forget that till now we the most country in the region helping and giving effort to make peace.
if you think keeping the occupied land will help you so you are wrong it's only will creates more extremists around you .
and make any act of resistance against your occupation legal.
if you evacuate the occupied lands there will be no reason for people to fight you and if they fight you just nuke them. :D
listen man , i know it's hard for you
you've been taught that Arabs and Muslims are bad and want to destroy you ...you have see some Muslims really said that but i assure that not the majority .
we want to live in peace like you.
all Arabians are mad because you are a stubborn brat don't want to give them their land back and killing more and more every day.
i urge you to stop this blood shed i urge you to make peace and i urge you to open your eyes more.
this thread is useless torrentt is defending for the thing he has been taught all of his life and he wont believe any facts that against what he has been taught.....so unless he stop for a sec and take a neutral point of view u may notice there is something wrong !!!
and silverfaller i think u should have cleared that egypt dont have an anti any thing system placed by the gov. and one can be whatever he wants to be and do whatever he want to do as long as he dont be a threat to others !!!
and i wont say isreal people are innocent cuz they kill women and childern and i wont say that palastine are innocent also cuz they did the same thing aganist the islam rules witch i can give u a site to tell u all about it but i wont post it here so i wont be attacked (i will pm it to u if u want or to any one )
but take my point of view u come and set in my home and after some time u said to me get out !!!this is my grandfather house and i must stay in it
what do u think i would do ???
he is a f*** right in every thing he say , except in the link he was talkin about and we don't make our decision from our heads so i'm waitin for ur link man :D if that possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by sangos
And about the anti system that u are talkin about in egypt
man pls be a little logical
if they just have anti shoes or anti birds they will be strong
but u know that America won't allow them to have that's for sure
so the whole problem in the arabian countries that America but here leg in the Arabians leader's kneck so they can't make a decision so u know what they have to do (if there is somethin happen in Palestine they put there head in the sand like nothin happen and the poor Arabian people who talk about Palestine they will find themselves in the prison) ....and we are here kick ... :frusty:
so what we can do more than resist and struggle against the occupation to have our freedom like the previous nation like India , south Africa , America and the whole middle east
and no one can say that's not our rights ......
Well, it's partially true. You might want to watch the movie "Exodus" if you haven't already, which was made back about 1960 before a lot of the politics came intoplay. It's very well made and very interesting, and I believe pretty true.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboabIf you believe all that rubbish then I am sorry for you.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
Remember that the Middle East has been unstable for thousands of years. There were no real formal country boundaries prior to WW I and the current country states were drawn up as a result of the end of WW I. That alone has caused a lot of problems. Following WW II, the UN wanted to give the jews a homeland, and the consensus was that that should be where modern-day Israel is today. That was a decision of the whole UN, not the "Zionist powers" as this movie claims.
Further, when the jews started moving in, they wanted to live peaceably with their neighbors, but the arabs totally resisted, and they started the first of several wars with Israel, losing it after British and US intervention on behalf of the UN. After the first war, the jews took claim to the conquered lands, just as other countries have done throughout history. To the victor go the spoils of war. Then the other arab states claimed all of the remaining Palestinian lands, and since then have done absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians at all. To this day I think a lot of hte Palestinian problems are because of actions of the arabs, not Israel.
So to sum it up, it's mostly political garbage. You can tell when they start referring to "Zionist powers" they have an agenda to promote. In this case it's just GB doing what he does. I have seen some good sites before on this issue but I can't remember where. Just keep an open mind about the topic. There are a lot of groups trying to work against the Israel position, keep that in mind, especially the liberal groups.
As far as I can tell the Arabs rejected the UN split of land.
However, even today Israel occupies more area than the original UN split. Due to the original rejection of the split, Arabs started shit, Israel reacted with force and took more land.
It looks like the Golan Heights area was always part of Syria. the West Bank area for the Arabs has shrunk, the northern part for the Arabs is completely occupied by Israel, and the part for the Arabs south of the Gaza strip is now Israel.
It seems that after the original split, supposed Arab aggression resulted in Israel booting the Arabs.
The problem is that there weren't any real lines drawn as a nation pre-WWII and when there were, "Palestinians didn'r like it.
Arabs will act as if the land is designated for all Arabs but never set up a real modern nation.
Israel did.
Well that's my understanding of it.
Yes, let's take a moment to reflect on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM[/COLOR]well,Quote:
Originally Posted by SneeYeah. It's not as if Egypt runs anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers or have anti-jewish demonstrations, or show anti-jewish TV-shows or anything. Or that they've made just being a zionist illegal. And let's not talk about the Saudis, real paragons of tolerance they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfaller
if there are anti-jewish cartoons in our newspapers
this is free speech you know they can write what they like
democracy, you know this term
anti- jewish tv shows ; also free speech you cannot ban tv shows and newspapers because you don't like what they are writing.1
i want to stop here for a moment and talk about something i guess it's important.
equal measures ; see
two years ago - i guess- a danish newspaper published a cartoon that mock the prophet of Islam and when Muslims asks them to apologize their response was " there is nothing to be sorry about, it's free speech we can say whatever we like" and all European countries stood behind this paper
now why don't you do the same when it comes to an Arabian newspaper
One danish cartoonist makes a few cartoons about how he imagines terrorists view Mohammed, and millions of muslims protest, saying that all of Denmark should apologize (and that's the more reasonable of them). Some even wanted to implicate all of Scandinavia, and right on this board someone even made the cartoons out to be reflective of some sort of collective opinion all Scandinavians held (fuck, just re-read your post and saw you said all of Europe stood behind it, you really don't have a clue), or somesuch. The cartoons were obviously some sort of great injustice done to all muslims, according to what seemed like a majority of people in several arab nations.
At the very same time, the same countries (including Saudi Arabia) ran anti-jewish cartoons in their newspapers. There had already been anti-jewish demonstrations, and, obviously, there were plenty of religious and/or polictical leaders making jews and/or westerners out to be criminals, infidels deserving to die, and so on.
In the real world, outside of your head, this is what regular people call hypocrisy. Freedom of speech is the lamest excuse ever to use, when you have no respect for it, as all the people demonstrating about the cartoons, and the officials trying to put pressure on Denmarks, and the people running the same newspapers that published the anti-jewish cartoons didn't, obviously didn't.
Now, to get back to what the entire thing was about (which you seem to have missed) this is what children are exposed to through that media, and through that society. Someone makes fun of the prophet - it's wrong, and they should burn in hell, meanwhile, making fun of people following another creed is quite all right. Hell, it's freedom of speech, and should be recommended since some of them are so very bad (according to the media, at least).
And, together with that, to tie this in with other things said by the thread-starter, it doesn't seem that strange to me that that Israel at large might feel threatened by surrounding nations (or that they are making an effort to keep support from the west), seeing as lots of people in those nations seem well happy to continue the hate-mongering and keep the agitators, which the governments of those countries seem to have very little issue with, if any at all (and dissenting voices hardly seem to be listened to at all).
I'd also bet that if Israel ever lost the support it has, and its nukes, it'd be a question of who came up with an excuse to attack Israel first, rather than if someone would attack them, given the reigning sentiments.
=-=
Now, what seems interesting to me, right now, on this board, is that currently we've got several non-palestinian, semi-literate chaps from countries with an obviously biased media, willing to criticise Israel, here and in the inbred-section.
Yet I haven't seen many Israelis send much of the same the other way here lately, or at all. In fact, of the Israelis I've met IRL, they haven't been anti-muslim at all. But then again, neither have any of the muslims I've met IRL made any sort of blanket anti-israeli, or anti-jewish statements, not even this former palestian bloke I knew.
People who haven't grown up somewhere where they were fed notions about how bad jews or Israel are, tend to view jews and israelis as a heterogenous group.
If someone argued about how bad some israeli laws are, or how bad past and present governments have been, that would be fine. But idiots making threads like this, or defending them, should fuck right off.
'cos listing israeli errors (and I see some really moronic takes on it in there at that), rather than seeing them as steps in the escalation of ongoing conflicts, is the worst sort of argument there is to justify anything.
"We hate you 'cos you did that and that and that" is a pretty fucking dodgy way to argue, when you take out the full context.
Well said, Snee.
-bd
to be fair i thought the video was accurate but very misleading, the bias was more in what was not said rather than what was said, e.g. no mention of the holocaust or the balfour declaration
i've quoted this before, but
no compensation, no democracy, no real explanation of why immigrants deserved it, not even an explanation of why the majority of the land should be given to the minority of the population. Is there seriously anyone here who will say that this was fair and if it was their country today that they would accept that?Quote:
The territory was plagued with chronic unrest pitting native Arabs against Jewish immigrants (who now made up about a third the population, owning about 6% of the land).
The UN set up a special committee which recommended splitting the territory into separate Jewish and Palestinian states ...The partition plan (1947) gave 57% of Palestine to the Jewish state and 43.53% to the Arab state, with an international enclave around Jerusalem.
well said, snee :D
first of all, denmark didn't apologize for publishing those cartoons and about this issue you just have no clue so let me enlighten you
1-danish government refuses to apologize till islamic countries refuses to buy anything from denmark and the danish government felt they will lose a big marcket for their goods they just sent a feeble apology
2-no pressure put to stop those cartoons in fact after the first cartoons published another one was published in france and some again published in some european countries so where is the pressure your talking about.
about anti-jewish cartoons and anti-jewish newspapers there is no such thing
if you mean anti-isreali cartoons that a different thing
cause isrealis occupied our lands and some people in our country seeing this not fair.
i'm really sorry they feeling that cause i think everyone in the whole world see we are blessing by this occupation:D
there is no hypocracy about it .you are the one that don't use an equal measures.
now let's talk about heads. :D
outside my head isreal killed tens of people daily in the occupied land
and i guess this outside your head too.
man, you watch too much tv instead read more about the whole issue
and i said before and i'll say it again we have nothing against jews
we want isreal to give us our land back and then only then there will be peace.
about your talk about you don't see many isreali in this thread
well, they just keeping a little profile because they know the arguement won't turn to their benefit
@skizo
Mideast before ww2 had a well drawn borders in fact
jordan was a kingdom since the end of ww1 and syria and lebnon were under french occupation with well known borders and palestine was under british occupation too.
so palestine was known as a country not just unrecognized peice of land for anyone to take
UN didn't permit jews to have a homeland in palestine ,britain did by the belfur declaration 1917. UN tried to solve the issue by split the land.
but arabs refused the split because the jews had no right to come from Europe to establish a country in arabian soil.
and then the jewish gangs emerged and made all those massacres -i was mentioned- in order to terrorize the arabs to leave their lands.
any way this history, and it seems that no one won't to listen any more
to history.
now u said you are supporting isreal cause some anti-isreali cartoons.you give her the right to bomb our towns till we stop publishing those cartoons.
how thoughtful of you , how kind your souls are.
again people
all we want is our lands back under 242 UN RESOLUTION
i guess we have the right to ask for our land back but we don't have the right to make cartoons ;)
i had to edit my comment cause of this thought.
since i have opened this thread no only few discussed the facts i present here.
the rest just discussed the mentality of the thread poster thinking he is a Moran to write those bad things against their beloved goddess isreal and some discuss Islam and some discuss cartoons.
this thread is about isreal and why people hate it not about Islam not about jews not about my mentality and not about asses :D
and before you twist the facts ,all my comments out of the idea of this thread were only to answer your comments .
so please stick with the thread idea and don't take us to another debates and if you like i will open a thread about cartoons to lighten up your day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
I like how your whole post had almost NOTHING to do with what I commented on, insinuated I said things I did not, and makes you appear holier than thou. Well done. :dabs:
I'm also sure that you don't believe the Israelis are entitled to the land. I'm sure the Byzantines didn't think the Palestinians were entitled to the lands either when they decided to take it. :wacko:
WTF is this? I never said anything even remotely close to this. :blink:Quote:
any way this history, and it seems that no one won't to listen any more
to history.
now u said you are supporting isreal cause some anti-isreali cartoons.you give her the right to bomb our towns till we stop publishing those cartoons.
how thoughtful of you , how kind your souls are.
again people
all we want is our lands back under 242 UN RESOLUTION
i guess we have the right to ask for our land back but we don't have the right to make cartoons ;)
Palestine was not a nation but was an understood tract of land from what I gather.
Who was the leader of Palestine?
What was the governement made of?
At the same time how could Israelis just take an Arabs person's home?
I see how this conflict arose.
If Arabs walk around on a certain tract of land but don't live on that particular tract, does that entitle them to tell anyone not Arab to fuck off?
Does it entitle an Israeli to tell the Arab to fuck of for the same reason?
It seems to me that what happened to American Indians was headed for Palestinians but unlike the Indians, the Palestinians are much stronger in number to just fuck off.
I think this a prime example of "what you think is okay is today's world just ain't to some people".
@skizo
well ,i'm sorry
i wasn't talking to you after 3 or 4 sentences but i forget to point it out
and yes the isrealis didn't entitle the land in the first place ,what right European jews had to claim an Arabian land some of them came from Russia and Ethiopia you want to tell me that a Russian guy has a right to settle in Palestine it will be like an Arabians has a right to built a country in Spain cause they used to live there
but in reality, isreal is a country now and I'm addressing its people to withdraw from occupied land cause this will end the blood shed and will allow all of us live in peace.
and my friend this what i'm trying to say
if isreal gave the land back- i mean the occupied lands- there will be no reason for all this blood shed and violence .
i wish you all believe when i say "all we want as Arabians is a Palestine state on the whole occupied lands under the 242 UN RESOLUTION "
@bussyman
many Palestinians today living in refugee camps all over the worlds still had their keys for their houses which were been destroyed by isrealis and they had towns and farms and local police and the reason they had no government that they were under British occupation so there were a British ruler.
so Palestinians weren't walk around this land they were living on it.
and you are right it's like American Indians issue.
and yes the Palestinians won't fuck off till they had their freedom and declare their counrty over the Gaza strip and the western bank.
LOL, who the hell cares about this anyways? I guess some people have too much free time to talk about this. Just enjoy your lives and keep moving forward.
Israelis, for one. :ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by SKGunners
The is the Drawing Room and is meant for on-topic, serious discussion. Please leave those posts in the Lounge.
So Denmark didn't apologise for these cartoons and then the next sentence you say they did. Why should the government apologise for the action of a company in its borders when they are complying with the laws. Granted the cartoons may have been insensitive towards Muslims but they did raise valid points about terrorists twisting Islam to their own ends. Its a shame really that actual Muslims where forbidden from viewing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
Oh yeah another was published in France and the editor in charge was promptly sacked so there was pressure put on people not to publish more.
I think what snee was trying to point out was that the Muhammed cartoons where trying to put a point across that Islam has problems with radicals that need solving. while on the other hand according to quite a few sources Palestinians make rather horrifying music videos aimed at children to incite hatred.
this for example, yet the Arab world don't seem to care about it. hypocrisy at its finest.
well, feeble apology don't consider an apology.
the problem about those cartoons that it included the prophet muhammed u can choose any one to paint yet to choose my prophet to picture in nasty way and i saw the cartoons like most of Muslims saw it and we were mad because you choose to deliver your message through picturing our prophet in a bad way .
and the pressure you talking about came from Islamic countries not Europe
i remembered many Europeans' government stand besides both papers .
about the video
we as Muslims and Arab in the majority hate radicalism and refuse their acts .
but isn't a fact that many isreali soldiers refused to do military service in the occupied land because they refused to the horrible acts they order to do by their leaders.?!
isn't a fact that isreali soldiers killed kids and women in Gaza and in geneen ?!
isn't a fact that an Arabian correspondent been shut to death by isreali snipper earlier last month ?!
isn't a fact that isreal bombed a UN base along with Lebanon women and children in qana?!
and yet you came here trying to defend isreal and yet you came here and post one video when a Palestinian shot at an isreali helmet and you call this terrorism :)
here is some videos about isreali terrorism
i have to warn you these videos have a horrible images and it's 18+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NstwYPVOGcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jf8ZH90Vk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prLPvqttW9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7-9PJ7Kpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCUQj2_D94c
and here is a documentary made by European
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnA-X2EaIS8
and here is a kid and his father being killed by isreali
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOlzvhx9qOw
and here is a video discribing how isreali soldiers killed a palestinian kid and they erases the video which was taken for the incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAR-0XL9n-g
if you want more i'll post millions videos but do you actully want to see them.
i doubt it ;)
Im sure there are also plenty of videos on youtube showing exactly what Palestinian terrorists have done in the name of their country and religion as well. Posting these really is pointless as most people here already realised that both sides have committed atrocities.
The plain simple fact is both sides are as bad as each other and there is no current deal that will satisfy both sides. So the killings will continue, the videos will keep appearing on youtube and the hatred between them will remain. People posting video clips and shouting look what these bastards have done while their own people carry out similar atrocities is just plain stupid.
If you read the piece that went with it they intended the picture of Muhammed with a bomb on his head to be the extremists view of what Islam is. Most people understood the piece for what it was meant to be as an attack on the way extremists have subverted Islam to fit their own needs. Chances are the writer in question never knew it was forbidden to draw a picture of Muhammed since i never did until after news of this spread. As far as i know the paper in question never issued an apology and in my opinion they shouldn't have to. oh yeah and having mass protests and bringing huge amounts of media attention to the cartoons wasnt the best way to make them go away.Quote:
well, feeble apology don't consider an apology.
the problem about those cartoons that it included the prophet muhammed u can choose any one to paint yet to choose my prophet to picture in nasty way and i saw the cartoons like most of Muslims saw it and we were mad because you choose to deliver your message through picturing our prophet in a bad way .
and the pressure you talking about came from Islamic countries not Europe
i remembered many Europeans' government stand besides both papers .
Well I have the start of a solution.
Roll back the lines to the UN drawings.
From what I gather, either through Israeli or Palestinian aggression, the Palestinians lost those lines.
Since it is not clear who started what, the bottom line is that those were never mandated by the UN for Israel.
From there we can explore whether Israel even had the the right to declare their own county in the first place.
Palestinians need to get their act together. In today's world there will squables over land if it not clear what the hell is yours.
I've seen pictures of "Palestine" when it was bigger but other countries took over the land.
Was it okay cuz they were Arab countries. Admittedly those tracts of land were on the fringes. Israel is in the middle.
It seems part of the problem is racism/"religiousism".
4play already brought up the fact that you are contradicting yourself, however, the wrongs don't stop there, so:Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
You really need to trust your media a bit less and start thing for yourself. When it comes to pressure, that didn't just (you've already given example of two kinds of pressure Denmark was subjected to) come from muslim countries, but there were also debates within Denmark, as well as in the surrounding countries regarding whether the paper was in the wrong, and like yourself, many chose to disregard the fact that the cartoons weren't intended to be anti-islamic, but rather anti-extremist. What with people complaining and so forth, I'd hardly call that a lack of pressure.
As an aside, I should probably also point out that way before the protests against the cartoons started, the cartoons had already been in at least one newspaper in the middle east (in Egypt, even). And it took a long time for people to get upset about it. In fact, if one was a bit cynical, one might suspect that someone worked very hard to make people upset about it.
That's odd, seeing as how there have been reports of cartoons labelled as anti-semitic (of the anti-jewish variety, obviously) or just anti-jewish in papers in your part of the world for years now. Racial sterotypes and all.Quote:
about anti-jewish cartoons and anti-jewish newspapers there is no such thing
But then again, maybe they were intended to be anti-israeli...
Yes, and every Israeli, no matter their age, in whichever part of the country has acted against you, or your country, then?Quote:
if you mean anti-isreali cartoons that a different thing
cause isrealis occupied our lands and some people in our country seeing this not fair.
I daresay there is. Millions of people start whining about a cartoonist breaking some old (and fairly pointless) taboo, claiming he's insulting them as a people. The same people seem to think it's alright to put down an entire group of people, the Israelis. And blame a whole country about the cartoons as well. That is hypocrisy at its finest.Quote:
there is no hypocracy about it .you are the one that don't use an equal measures.
Does this mean the other side has done nothing, or that you aren't preaching hatred of all of Israel right now? You should try imagining them as people, individuals, rather than what you seem to have been taught abou them as a whole, for a change.Quote:
[COLOR=Red]now let's talk about heads. :D
[COLOR=Blue]outside my head isreal killed tens of people daily in the occupied land
and i guess this outside your head too.
You should take your own advice, and this time, you should try thinking for yourself and go outside of your usual biased sources.Quote:
man, you watch too much tv instead read more about the whole issue
Could have fooled me. But I guess you just hate an entire nation full of people.Quote:
and i said before and i'll say it again we have nothing against jews
Riiight.Quote:
we want isreal to give us our land back and then only then there will be peace.
Or they don't see the point in arguing with a thread you've made to justify people making personal attacks on someone.Quote:
[COLOR=Black]about your talk about you don't see many isreali in this thread
well, they just keeping a little profile because they know the arguement won't turn to their benefit
@4play
i will agree with you that intentions behind those cartoons were good but can't you agree with me that the way it's published and using the prophet of islam was inappropriate
and i agree with you that mass protest didn't help it and we should let it go but .
about the videos you know there are millions of videos about isreali brutality but idoubt there is even 20 videos about Palestinians'
@busyman
i agree to everything you say
but racism isn't the issue .
if isreal give the land back it will end everything.
@the rest
there is nothing to comment about :)
ooh, except
well done snee ;)
There are quite a few videos on youtube to do with some of the evil's the Palestinians are up to. took me 3 seconds to find a video of a 15 year old child who had strapped explosives to himself to kill soldiers at a checkpoint and there are lots more than that. anyway does a higher ratio of bad things they have done make them worse then you or both as bad as each other.
you really don't expect this to happen do you?Quote:
if isreal give the land back it will end everything.
do you really expect these 7 odd million people to leave everything they have built and their lives behind to move somewhere else?
The way most people see it this will end one of three ways.
1) proper borders are set-up that both agree is acceptable
2) you both share the same country and have some form of power sharing
3) some one is wiped out.
ooh dear
i meant by the occupied land =Gaza strip , western bank and Golan heights .
and it's our right to ask for them under the international law and under UN 242 RESOLUTION.
I'm not asking them to leave because it's impossible and not logical
I'm asking them to withdraw from all the lands they occupied in 1967
to give Palestinians a chance to build their own country.
and i think it can be done if isreal stop to be stubborn and give us the land back.
about the borders
there is a well drawn borders which is acceptable from Arabians and the whole world except isreal !
4play
the only reason radicals in Islamic countries uses to attack isreal is isreal occupied Arabian land and it refuses to listen to the whole world and it disobey the international law.
if we eliminate this reason ,people won't listen to them
i really want peace ,many Arabians want but how can we accomplish this?
isreal don't want to give the land back
and all I'm trying to tell isreali people is to give the occupied lands back to make peace and end this struggle.
dear friend ,
people here like everywhere else thinks we want isreali to die out
few of our people want that but the majority only want the land back and want to see a Palestinian state along with isreali state .
here is a map showing how occupied the lands since 1947
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-cont...tine%20map.jpg
AND HERE IS ANOTHER ONE SHOWING UN PARTITION IN 1947
http://www.passia.org/palestine_fact...plan-reso.htmlhttp://www.passia.org/palestine_fact...-Armistice.gif
there are alot of maps man but who will follow them.
I'm a simple man and could never understand the religious struggles in the Middle East. Who said an Eye for an Eye ? I always liked that quote , and will try to continue to teach my children tolerance not ignorance . The haltered is taught from cradle to grave on both sides and not much you can do about that sadly .
I'll get back to my favorite show the Little Mosque on the Prairie and leave you all to debate .
i'm more then sure that every nation, if was in the situation israel is in, would have acted much much more drastically then how israel reacts to the palestinians that shoots rockets into israel everyday, and invade into it in order to kill civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play
don't forget israel shows much patiece and restraint and gives them water, electricity, jobs..
i don't get it
it's like we are moving in a circle :)
torrentt
let's stop arguing for a moment and talk
me and you agreed that there is a problem regardless who caused it
we need me and you to solve it
my solution is:
1- isreal evacuate the ocupied land under UN 242 resolution and we get UN TROOPS to watch the the borders in both sides.
2- all acts against isreal stop and any act from any arabian group will be responded by both arabs and isreal.
3-making peace treaty bet. isreal and arab countries.
what you think of this ?
please answer my question and don't change the subject :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
i'm not arguing with any1Quote:
let's stop arguing for a moment and talk
i'm sure if we do come to understanding (and we probably won't), it wouldn't change a thingQuote:
we need me and you to solve it
read what 4play said about it.Quote:
1- isreal evacuate the ocupied land under UN 242 resolution and we get UN TROOPS to watch the the borders in both sides.
u can't bring peace with terror, these are totaly opposite thingsQuote:
2- all acts against isreal stop and any act from any arabian group will be responded by both arabs and isreal.
other then that, many of your terror groups don't want to see even 1 israeli in this land.
peace is great, but its hard to make it with people who kill the oposition in the governmentQuote:
3-making peace treaty bet. isreal and arab countries.
what you think of this ?
anyway, about 70%-80% of Jordan's population are palestinians, i guess jordan is palestine, but u want israel too?