Some thoughts about invites to high level trackers

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Originally Posted by stoi

I bet Oink thought that as well.

Server in Holland, he lives in UK.

Ok big Tracker, big profile, etc but if you get busted and you live in the USA especially, then i bet they come down hard on you.

But thats the whole problem, no one knows how hard they will come down on you, yeah the staff off elitetorrents went to jail for Starwars, but im pretty sure i read somewhere that they had the servers in their basements (not sure how true that was though tbh).

but there is a risk, you wont just get off scott free.

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Well, it's non-scene - non entertainment material, so that there should reduce risk substantially right?

But if it were to not be a crime at all in the country it was hosted in (I was told Malaysia was one of those countries where copyright laws don't apply at all), would there be any legal issue, regardless of me being as US citizen?

Honestly, i do not know.

Obviously if your not doing movies and music your already under the radar so to speak, as thats the big 2 they go for.

as for Malaysia, i hope your right, as we have a new project over there now, not opened yet but will be soon i hope. and i signed up as anonymous on the contract as well so that always helps lay some fears at rest.

Did a little research (seriously, very little, first google result) and found:

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Originally Posted by Google's First Result

The copyright in a work is infringed when a person who, not being the owner of the copyright, and without license from the owner, does or authorizes any of the following acts :

1. 
   
2. Reproduces in any material form, performs, shows or plays or distributes to the public, communicates by cable or broadcast of the whole work or a substantial part thereof either in its original or derivative form
3. Imports any article into Malaysia for the purpose of trade or financial gains
4. Makes, lets for hire or by way of trade, exposes or offers for sale or hire any infringing copy
5. Sells, lets for hire or by way of trade, exposes or offers for sale or hire any infringing copy
6. Distributes infringing copies
7. Possesses, otherwise than for his private and domestic use, any infringing copy
8. By way of trade, exhibits in public any infringing copy
9. Imports into Malaysia, otherwise that for his private and domestic use any copy which if it were made in Malaysia would be an infringing copy
10. Makes or has in the possession any contrivance used or intended to be sued for the purposes of making infringing copies or
11. Causes the work to be performed in public

The doing of (i) and (ii) above are termed as direct infringement and is actionable at the suit of the owner.

The doing of (iii) to (x) are termed as indirect infringement and attract criminal sanction and enforceable by the Ministry of Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs.

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A torrent tracker doesn't actually break any of those rules. It assists in distribution but does not directly distribute, so yep, looks like it is actually legal to run a torrent tracker, even one that tracks copyrighted material there.

well as far as im aware, i havnt looked into the legal aspect for awhile, but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.

Torrents, and Trackers are not illegal anywhere in the world, and that includes the USA.

But they are finding ways to charge people over them.

Aiding and abetting in the illegal distribution of copy-written material

making a profit off copy-written material.

If they were illegal, then linux distros could not distribute over them and quite a lot of other items you can get over bittorrent that are not pointing to copy-written material.

Actually, a torrent tracker could be accused of enabling 2, 6, 8 & 10.

It's not illegal unless your caught in your tracker telling others downloading such and such movie, album, or game is okay and aiding them in doing so. Just don't get caught in your forums giving advice on what to download. As long as the files are not hosted on the actual site or server then there are no laws being broken. Thats how bt trackers operate. The riaa and mpaa are just using their deep pockets to twist the facts.

the main thing they come down really hard on you for though, and this is a criminal offence and why the staff of elitetorrents went to jail.

Is pre-release stuff.

obviously if something is pre-released by the scene, then every tracker on the planet will have it, so they want the scene not the trackers.

But if its pre-released as a home made rip on a tracker, they go after the tracker hard, "i think" this is why they went after Oink, as they had released 10-12 pre-released albums on their tracker last year alone.

and obviously starwars was pre-release and not scene so elitetorrents got busted.

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

thats a good point stoi. when you make homemade rips, you are directly involved in the act of piracy. otherwise you are merely distributing it.

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Originally Posted by bikernin

thats a good point stoi. when you make homemade rips, you are directly involved in the act of piracy. otherwise you are merely distributing it.

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The trackers arent distributing it either. They are just giving us a place to share files which we have the legal rights to ;)

If anything we the users are distributing the "material"

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Originally Posted by orfik

Actually, a torrent tracker could be accused of enabling 2, 6, 8 & 10.

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Enabling the breaking of those laws is illegal in most countries, not Malaysia (atleast to my knowledge, it wasn't written there, and if it was illegal I'd imagine it would be).

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Originally Posted by stoi

the main thing they come down really hard on you for though, and this is a criminal offence and why the staff of elitetorrents went to jail.

Is pre-release stuff.

obviously if something is pre-released by the scene, then every tracker on the planet will have it, so they want the scene not the trackers.

But if its pre-released as a home made rip on a tracker, they go after the tracker hard, "i think" this is why they went after Oink, as they had released 10-12 pre-released albums on their tracker last year alone.

and obviously starwars was pre-release and not scene so elitetorrents got busted.

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

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True. Didn't think of that. Thats where the law has Oink right now. The pre release of material. Pre releases are illegal to have, no matter what way you put it.

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Originally Posted by stoi

It is funny though, but actually renting a seedbox, is more illegal than running a tracker, because the seedbox your actually storing the files on it. tracker servers should never have any copywrited files on them, or your just asking for trouble.

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yes, if the site owns seedbox they are actually hosting the files...which is illegal (at least in States, me think).

The funny thing is that some sites have following disclaimer text and yet own seedboxes:

None of the files shown here are actually hosted on this server. The links are provided solely by this site's users. The administrator of this site cannot be held responsible for what its users post, or any other actions of its users. You may not use this site to distribute or download any material when you do not have the legal rights to do so. It is your own responsibility to adhere to these terms.

P.S. site user's seedboxes are legal btw :rolleyes:

Definitely dangerous in the states. They have strict rules for pirate offenders (hmm I wonder about me then).:P

well if seedboxes are legal like you say (i cant quite believe that but i will for now lol) and the seedboxes the tracker owners are on a different host, in a different country and havnt got the tracker software on at all, then surely no one can even touch the tracker owners for that, as they havnt got any files on the servers that actually host the tracker.

Thats true. Unless they obviously link their files from the server and advertise which they WOULDN'T do. I sure wouldn't want to be a member of that tracker.

The Best Thing That Any Tracker Does Is To Close The Invitation System And Try To Recruit Trusted Members From Forums Such As Fst.
Many Members In Many Trackers Misuse The Invites By Trading Or Selling So I Guess It's Better If There Is No Invites.

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Originally Posted by SAM

The Best Thing That Any Tracker Does Is To Close The Invitation System And Try To Recruit Trusted Members From Forums Such As Fst.
Many Members In Many Trackers Misuse The Invites By Trading Or Selling So I Guess It's Better If There Is No Invites.

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But you cant trust anyone though, well not many.

I done that with a member from here, he had quite a few posts, looked like a good member, 2 days later we caught him cheating, i PMed him on here, and he admitted it.

so imo anyone you get in, wither by open signups, invite system, owners say so, might be a scumbag, you just never know till they are on your tracker.

and i dont see all that much wrong with trading invites tbh, at least if they trade invites, you know you are getting a member of another tracker that should know how to use torrents properly and wont cheat.

Giving them away they could be anyone, even your best friend or your mother can do the dirty on you with an invite. (if they havnt a clue how the ratio system works)

I have always laughed how in this site, number of posts, bt rep and how much you have echo'd the norm opinion (trade = bad, giveaway=good) mattered, but outside this site it mattered so little. I don't think sign ups should ever be opened on extablished sites like ftn and sct, because there seeding base is well established(where else can you get rid of ratio, and still pull crazy speeds on brand new torrents). However sites like its and scl, who are looking to become top sites, should open there sign ups, or loosen the invites regulations. Purely because by keeping it tight, invites mainly go to those already in other top sites, so have no use for another 0day site, rather than someone who truly will leech and seed on the site. With these tight regs, all you are getting are collectors inviting collectors. Sure they may try shrug off the tag by faking activity, eg seeding torrents they already have on there, or occasionally leeching a torrent, but their still in it for the collection/community sake, which isn't how a good torrent site starts out.

Maybe it is just a matter of trying to screen who could be a good user and who is likely to become a scammer or a cheater. You might have an excellent prospect that will sell invites or accounts as soon as he has the chance to do so.