No way, the Olympic flame has been going for like forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play
Like the Marathon and all the other really good Olympic stuff.
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No way, the Olympic flame has been going for like forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4play
Like the Marathon and all the other really good Olympic stuff.
I don't think any part of this sorry tour de farce is funny and I never said I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeek
Actually the discussion in all the newspapers this morning was about the behaviour of the police, not the protestors who in the end didn't hurt a soul.
I beg to differ - I thought the plod leaping off his bike was class. :glag:Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousI don't think any part of this sorry tour de farce is funny and I never said I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeek
Actually the discussion in all the newspapers this morning was the behaviour of the police, not the protestors who in the end didn't hurt a soul.
Well now you mention it :shifty:.
Yeah I suspect the Chinese thought it was class as well, although they have different motives for thinking so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
And who unfortunately, due to some thugs, have achieved absolutely nothing for the people of Tibet... no greater publicity or recognition of their plight... not even a spotlight turned onto the behaviour of the Chinese state...Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
I'm surprised that the protesters themselves aren't angry at the thugs, I would be.
i don't think you understand protests then, the more you protest about things, the more people take notice, the more you can get things changed.
maybe you should look up the meaning of protesting in the dictionary, then decide if the protesters or the olympic torch carriers have had the worst publicity over the last two days.
Well, that's the theory anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Yeah right... so many more people now know about how badly China treats the people of Tibet don't they ? And they gained that knowledge from watching people and reading about people attack a western person carrying a torch that represents fairness to all competitors...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
If you are seriously arguing that the only way to protest is to attack people then you obviously don't understand what the word protest means... it damned sure as hell doesn't mean assault <- You can look that one up if you like.
I didn't see any thugs. Evidently your definition is different to mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeekAnd who unfortunately, due to some thugs, have achieved absolutely nothing for the people of Tibet... no greater publicity or recognition of their plight... not even a spotlight turned onto the behaviour of the Chinese state...Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
I'm surprised that the protesters themselves aren't angry at the thugs, I would be.
The word 'thug' implies a destructive ignorant/indiscriminate force, which the Olympics protestors certainly were not. I can only assume you're using this term to stimulate debate and rile people. Well, one out of two ain't bad.Quote:
The English word thug, meaning a violent criminal, comes from the Hindi word thag (and originally from the Sanskrit word sthaga), meaning a thief or villain.
I'm not sure how you can assume that the protests have done nothing for Tibet MG. As a scholar of history you should know that small events build into more cohesive protests and can effect change decades down the line. You have a very short-sighted approach to civil unrest.
As to the world's media spotlight and what it's on, it's on the protests against China, which is exactly what the protestors wanted.
No-one attacked anyone. ONE protestor tried to grab the torch, and that was it. Not sure what footage you were watching, maybe it was footage of the last civil unrest in Tibet.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeek
Oh, and the torch is supposed to symbolise peace not 'fairness to all competitors'. Where did you get that from??
The torch is supposed to represent the link to the ancient games, one of the ideals of those games was supposedly fairness to all competitors.
I'm happy for you all to agree that thuggery is a valid form of protest and fully expect to hear you supporting the next Muslim who resorts to thuggery in protest over cartoons of his prophet.
Bored now...
Tibet has had more headline news in the last few weeks than in the last 40 years. There cannot be many unaware of what is going on and why people are protesting. I have no idea what you consider a protest consists of in a free society but a handful of minor scuffles trying to grab a torch does not represent thuggery. Did these people raise a hand to a single runner or policeman? People in masks smashing property and having running battles with the police is thuggery. Holding a flag up to a camera and then getting flattened by a flying a policeman is not thuggery - unless you are counting the policeman as the thug, well are you? :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeekYeah right... so many more people now know about how badly China treats the people of Tibet don't they ? And they gained that knowledge from watching people and reading about people attack a western person carrying a torch that represents fairness to all competitors...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
If you are seriously arguing that the only way to protest is to attack people then you obviously don't understand what the word protest means... it damned sure as hell doesn't mean assault <- You can look that one up if you like.
The torch represents the games. The games are primarily a symbol of healthy competition between nations over violence. Hence, it primarily symbolises peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeek
We have established that no-one behaved in a thuggish manner.
EHS
:glag:Quote:
Gosper, who is a member of the IOC commission advising Beijing on staging the Olympics, described the protesters as "professional spoilers".
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...T2IuZbDBweVxeg
warning: this article does not contain the words thug or thuggery.
---------------
manicgeek: you bastard! you spoiled my olympics! :(
me: boo hoo!
Cheeky bastard!
The IOC themselves expressed a hope that the games being held in Beijing would open up dialogue over Tibet back when they awarded it....in fact that was one of their justifcations. Now they're not happy because people are speaking a bit too loudly for their comfort.
Boo hoo indeed. Nasty people taking it out on our shiny torch! And now they're blackmailing everyone by basically saying that if it carries on they might have to stop the relay...and not just this one but all in the future! I've never seen such a pathetic display of cowardice.
I dunno how people protest in manicgeek's perfect thug-free world?
maybe he's from that utopia called china.
And some of the protesters thought it could do with having a bit of violence putting back into it did they ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
Have you ? Where was that then ?
No it hasn't, the protests about Tibet have had loads of publicity, but Tibet and the plight of the people there has had virtually none, in fact they managed to generate more word wide publicity than all of the protests so far when they recently committed acts of violence against the Chinese state, as they're oppressed violence is their only option, unlike the nice comfy Western nations and their peoples who believe that they can be violent because they're free and empowered :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
If you don't want to call jumping on a person in the street, and taking something from them thuggery that's entirely your choice, most of us generally call it 'mugging', but in this case we must accept that the criminal wasn't doing it for personal gain, and so thuggery seems to be a more appropriate term.
Feel free to jump on someone in the street and try to take something from them, if you want to test that.... I'm fairly sure the police wont accept it as a valid form of protest, and if you're really unlucky the beak won't either.
Ah! I see you see the protesters and their actions as some kind of Olympic event then ? Well I suppose that's a novel way of looking at it... now if only the law would see assaulting people that way all the time I could get those nice gadgets I've been after :whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Hang on... I thought you were saying they weren't thugs... make you're mind up old chap :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
thats your imaginary world im talking about, not mine. :lol:
I think you might want to think about your words and the things you imply with them old chap... see for my world to be 'perfect' and 'thug free' implies recognition by you that your world isn't :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
exactly - my world's not in the least bit perfect, i didn't say it was, i grew up in 70s 80's and 90's London, I also went to school with people affected by the riots, there was nothing perfect & thug free about it.
Oh! I see... you're agreeing with me that jumping on people in the street and taking something from them (or attempting to) is thuggish behaviour then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
So the Tibetan chap running in front of the torch and happily waving his national flag at the camera who got jumped on by the policeman and had his flag removed was a victim of thuggery? No law against waving a flag that I am aware of and he wasn't interfering with the torch.
The BBC and Sky ran hours of coverage on the protests in London and the ongoing protests in Paris and San Fransisco are keeping the issue at the top of the news. This is not a bad thing is it?. Yes it should be peaceful but that doesn't mean the protesters should apologise for being there. I think most of us know what thuggery looks like and some middle aged chap making a political protest by making a grab for a torch isn't it. The twonk who threw an egg at Prescott a few years ago might be classed as a thug as indeed might be Prescott. Connie Huq was considerably more sorted and philosophical about it than you appear to be. Are you on a wind up or something? :shifty:
Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeekOh! I see... you're agreeing with me that jumping on people in the street and taking something from them (or attempting to) is thuggish behaviour then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
no, im agreeing that the world has thugs, the protesters in my opinion did what they set out to do, disrupt and spoil. maybe we should agree to disagree before i set the thugs on you.
How could you think such a thing of me Les :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
another idiotic regular hiding behind a second account are you? why do i bother?
go back to school and learn the difference between thugs and protesters!
No I only have this one account... I feel no need to hide anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Oh! And I know the difference, and I know that grabbing that torch in that way could constitute assault in law.
Maybe you should go and read something about protesting, you'd probably learn that the most effective protests are those that have been done with the absence of violence and with the absence of direct action... like grabbing a torch.
no the most effective protests are the ones where the message gets beamed all around the world by the news coverage, just like the London and Paris ones of the last few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by manicgeekNo I only have this one account... I feel no need to hide anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Oh! And I know the difference, and I know that grabbing that torch in that way could constitute assault in law.
Maybe you should go and read something about protesting, you'd probably learn that the most effective protests are those that have been done with the absence of violence and with the absence of direct action... like grabbing a torch.
"thugs" grabbing the torch seems to be the only thing that you like to talk about, and you don't seem to know about that either.
the London protesters did use the non-violent approach to lie down in the street, it worked because the police then had to make them take the torch to its destination by bus.
i don't think you've watched or read much news about the protests in London or Paris have you? i sat and watched a lot of news reports and articles as i could today and yesterday.
you keep talking about a "thug grabbing a torch" maybe you didn't see or read enough.
Hmmm... maybe a discussion about the laws of the land are over your head old chap, never heard of "Obstructing the Queens highway" ? See what happens is a bunch of criminals gather together and all break the law at the same time, by blocking law abiding citizens access and use of the highway (that's a road)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Nah!!! Bored again...
you're changing your arguement from thugs to laws now? bad choice, :lol: ok...all the protesters were released without charge, i clearly saw police and protesters both getting hurt in scuffles, it would be six of one and half a dozen of the other if it made it to court, which it wouldn't, that would probably just bring even more extremely bad publicity, sorry.
Hold the phones... I thought you'd watched hours of coverage... do you really know what went on... how can you make claims like this
and follow that with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Now come on make your mind up which was it thuggery or non-violent... and how did those people you see get hurt in a non-violent protest... heat exhaustion was it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
What was it you were saying about lame arguments again... :whistling
if you had read or watched the news you would know there were both scuffles and non-violent protests. the protests were going on at different places along the route and at different times. :slap:
have you seen anything other that a "thug" grabbing the torch mate? please read and watch the news reports, you're making a fool of yourself now.
the "thug" you keep going on and on about was one man on his own, standing in one place at one time of the day. :lol:
http://lonewacko.com/images/get-a-brain-morans.jpg
I think you must have confused yourself old chap... I mean scuffling with the police would be the act of a thug and you said there wasn't any thuggery... didn't you ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
So were there scuffles or not, was it non-violent protest (as per your earlier claim) or not, and if there were who did it if not the protesters ?
I'll tell you what why don't you go and make some notes about what you've said before so that you don't keep contradicting yourself ?
yes i agree, all scuffles between police and protesters are due to "thugs" manicgeek? :slap:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7332942.stmQuote:
Several small scuffles broke out as police tackled some of the protesters.
go and watch the news please you might learn something about successful protests.
Ah! Learning is it... why didn't you say... I could have helped you there...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien5
Here you go, this is a good place to start to learn about China and it's human rights actions/abuses...
Of course it's probably no where near as entertaining as watching thugs challenge Officers of law enforcement, but I'm confident of it's educational value.
Im not interested.
:glag: