A Lady by the name of...

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Let's just see the lib press go toe-to-toe with Mom, the VP candidate. ;)

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The "lib press"...why not the conservative press?
Since when have pregnant, unmarried 17 year olds become poster children for "family values"?

Oh, that's right...she's not poor or black.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Let's just see the lib press go toe-to-toe with Mom, the VP candidate. ;)

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The "lib press"...why not the conservative press?
Since when have pregnant, unmarried 17 year olds become poster children for "family values"?

Oh, that's right...she's not poor or black.

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The conservative press will be circumspect, as I said.

As to "poor or black", we'll have to wait until one of them is nominated, I guess.

Obama's already said his girls would have an abortion, rather than suffer for a "mistake".

His words, not mine.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Aired?

Bullshit.

Managed would be the word you're looking for.

You libs only yip this much when you've been jabbed stupid.
Managed??????? How and by who?

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

I mentioned McCain's close friendship with G Gordon Liddy in another thread. Is McCain for shooting federal agents in the head? Of course not, It's bullshit distractions to avoid talking issues.

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Do you seriously propose to compare the two?

Liddy spouted for the CIA (to no avail) and then got caught doing a B & E.

Ayers went quite a bit further, I think you'll find.

It's not about comparing the crimes, it's about linking someone to the crimes when they have/had nothing to do with them.
Obama did not commit the acts or support the weather underground.
McCain did not commit liddy's crimes or agree with his call to shoot federal agents in the head.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Anyone that suggest we know nothing about Obama can't have been paying attention. We've had 18 months of in depth investigations, not just of Obama, but of his family, friends of his family, everyone he has met and those who have met people he met. We know how many times he goes to the toilet and how much the movement weighs and you complain about a couple of days of wondering who the hell this Palin woman is? Good God man.

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Good God man:

Pray, how much does it weigh?

You're the first I've heard claiming to actually possess that knowledge, tho' I have heard he's been more constipated lately.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Obama is who/what he says he is, which is why I'm not voting for him.

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You're fooling, right?

No

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Palin has not been vetted and seeing as you started this thread about HER and not Obama, I am discussing her and the reaction to her nomination.

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So I've noticed.

Whom have you been discussing it with, by the way. :whistling
Then why complain about bias for sticking to the subject person?

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

She has been introduced as a conservative reformer with impeccable ethics. So I think the cop thing needs looking into. This is something SHE may have done, not something someone she knows may have done.

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It's being investigated, as we speak, by the Alaskan authorities and others.

I'm sure they'd welcome your help.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

In her acceptance speech she stated she told congress thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere. Turns out she pushed to get federal funds restored after congress blocked them and stated she closed the project because the state representatives were unable to procure the funds, leaving them short a few hundred million. Does that sound like a fiscal conservative fighting earmarks?

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Yes, in fact it does.

Certain tactics work more quickly than others, truth.

You really don't understand that, do you.

The Bridge to Nowhere was a part of another bill; she was seeking to restore the "non-bridge" section, leaving the "bridge" to die of lack of funding, the state (infinitely wiser in refusing to fund it) being the only alternative, and therefore putting an end to it's consideration.

Sure, no really

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

When Obama proposed a windfall tax on the oil companies to pay for a fuel benefit or when the democrats proposed it to pay for alternative fuel research there was outrage from the republicans about wealth redistribution and accusations of socialism and Marxism. Palin actually did place a windfall tax on them and gave the money to Alaskan residents.

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That kinda depends on what you call it.

Calling it by a different name doesn't change what it is.
Ffs, I normally find Wikipedia incredibly wanting in most circumstances, but it will work splendidly for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_...nd_Corporation

Funded by state oil taxes to ensure the security of future generations of Alaskans, and administered by a semi-private corporation.

What is there for one such as yourself to complain about.

The double standard, I'm not holding my breath waiting for the republicans to accuse her of being a socialist champion of wealth redistribution

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

The religious right like her because she wants to ban abortion in all cases, no exceptions and she wants creationism taught in schools. She vetoed a same sex partner benefits bill as well (although apparently only because she was advised it may not be constitutional), So their issues are taken care of, apparently no further vetting is needed and no other issues matter.

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This complaint always kills me.

Pray tell, what does the religious left have to say.

I dare say they don't like her for the same reasons.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

We'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.

She does have experience as Governor of Alaska, a mayor, and legislator, even as a small state, I'm sure the education obtained is relatively high, which truth be told is more than Obama can say, and he's running for the office itself. A community organizer and one-term state assemblyman, and what, 140 days in Congress before he started his campaign for president? Is he more qualified than McCain's second seater? At least she will have the luxury of learning at McCain's side in the event something happens to McCain. But he's healthy and will probably have no problems during a four-year term of office. And I think she and her husband have more real-life experience than Obama does, as well as Biden.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

I could be wrong here but I read Skizo's post as meaning the governing learning process, not academic education. I don't agree with him mind you.

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Yes, be perfectly clear; you wish to distance yourself from that dastardly conservative baby-eating bastard.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

At the moment she accepted the nomination all I knew about her is what she said about herself and how the campaign described her. To date apart from her proclaimed stance on social/cultural issues I haven't seen much that matches the reported reality of her record.

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That's 'cuz you only subscribe to liberal sources. :dabs:

Now, if you quote this and start with the red type again, I quit.
Okay I'll use blue this time, I just can't place my finger on where I got the idea from.:whistling
Come up with something original.

Objection on principle, for example. :whistling

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As far as I can tell Palin is not against contraception. It wouldn't be too much to imagine she is an abstinence only advocate, but it's unfair to say she is without confirmation. The pregnancy wouldn't help her case if she is.
@IdolEyes787

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Although abortion may be wrong I guess they have no problem with sham weddings,loveless marriages and the inevitable divorcing of father Jethro.

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Granted it's not the surest route to success, but it's possible that they made the choice themselves because they want to get married.

Entirely possible but I somehow feel responsible parents would be more against the union than for it.

They don't have to abort the fetus but neither do they need to rush to the altar.

In this day and age I would hope we are past the necessity of having to make an honest women of the girl.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Aired?

Bullshit.

Managed would be the word you're looking for.

You libs only yip this much when you've been jabbed stupid.
Managed??????? How and by who?


Do you seriously propose to compare the two?

Liddy spouted for the CIA (to no avail) and then got caught doing a B & E.

Ayers went quite a bit further, I think you'll find.

It's not about comparing the crimes, it's about linking someone to the crimes when they have/had nothing to do with them.
Obama did not commit the acts or support the weather underground.
McCain did not commit liddy's crimes or agree with his call to shoot federal agents in the head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Anyone that suggest we know nothing about Obama can't have been paying attention. We've had 18 months of in depth investigations, not just of Obama, but of his family, friends of his family, everyone he has met and those who have met people he met. We know how many times he goes to the toilet and how much the movement weighs and you complain about a couple of days of wondering who the hell this Palin woman is? Good God man.

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Good God man:

Pray, how much does it weigh?

You're the first I've heard claiming to actually possess that knowledge, tho' I have heard he's been more constipated lately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Obama is who/what he says he is, which is why I'm not voting for him.

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You're fooling, right?

No

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Palin has not been vetted and seeing as you started this thread about HER and not Obama, I am discussing her and the reaction to her nomination.

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So I've noticed.

Whom have you been discussing it with, by the way. :whistling
Then why complain about bias for sticking to the subject person?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

She has been introduced as a conservative reformer with impeccable ethics. So I think the cop thing needs looking into. This is something SHE may have done, not something someone she knows may have done.

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It's being investigated, as we speak, by the Alaskan authorities and others.

I'm sure they'd welcome your help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

In her acceptance speech she stated she told congress thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere. Turns out she pushed to get federal funds restored after congress blocked them and stated she closed the project because the state representatives were unable to procure the funds, leaving them short a few hundred million. Does that sound like a fiscal conservative fighting earmarks?

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Yes, in fact it does.

Certain tactics work more quickly than others, truth.

You really don't understand that, do you.

The Bridge to Nowhere was a part of another bill; she was seeking to restore the "non-bridge" section, leaving the "bridge" to die of lack of funding, the state (infinitely wiser in refusing to fund it) being the only alternative, and therefore putting an end to it's consideration.

Sure, no really

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

When Obama proposed a windfall tax on the oil companies to pay for a fuel benefit or when the democrats proposed it to pay for alternative fuel research there was outrage from the republicans about wealth redistribution and accusations of socialism and Marxism. Palin actually did place a windfall tax on them and gave the money to Alaskan residents.

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That kinda depends on what you call it.

Calling it by a different name doesn't change what it is.
Ffs, I normally find Wikipedia incredibly wanting in most circumstances, but it will work splendidly for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_...nd_Corporation

Funded by state oil taxes to ensure the security of future generations of Alaskans, and administered by a semi-private corporation.

What is there for one such as yourself to complain about.

The double standard, I'm not holding my breath waiting for the republicans to accuse her of being a socialist champion of wealth redistribution

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

The religious right like her because she wants to ban abortion in all cases, no exceptions and she wants creationism taught in schools. She vetoed a same sex partner benefits bill as well (although apparently only because she was advised it may not be constitutional), So their issues are taken care of, apparently no further vetting is needed and no other issues matter.

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This complaint always kills me.

Pray tell, what does the religious left have to say.

I dare say they don't like her for the same reasons.

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Originally Posted by Skizo

We'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.

She does have experience as Governor of Alaska, a mayor, and legislator, even as a small state, I'm sure the education obtained is relatively high, which truth be told is more than Obama can say, and he's running for the office itself. A community organizer and one-term state assemblyman, and what, 140 days in Congress before he started his campaign for president? Is he more qualified than McCain's second seater? At least she will have the luxury of learning at McCain's side in the event something happens to McCain. But he's healthy and will probably have no problems during a four-year term of office. And I think she and her husband have more real-life experience than Obama does, as well as Biden.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

I could be wrong here but I read Skizo's post as meaning the governing learning process, not academic education. I don't agree with him mind you.

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Yes, be perfectly clear; you wish to distance yourself from that dastardly conservative baby-eating bastard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

At the moment she accepted the nomination all I knew about her is what she said about herself and how the campaign described her. To date apart from her proclaimed stance on social/cultural issues I haven't seen much that matches the reported reality of her record.

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That's 'cuz you only subscribe to liberal sources. :dabs:

Now, if you quote this and start with the red type again, I quit.
Okay I'll use blue this time, I just can't place my finger on where I got the idea from.:whistling
Come up with something original.

Objection on principle, for example. :whistling

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As far as I can tell Palin is not against contraception. It wouldn't be too much to imagine she is an abstinence only advocate, but it's unfair to say she is without confirmation. The pregnancy wouldn't help her case if she is.
@IdolEyes787

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Although abortion may be wrong I guess they have no problem with sham weddings,loveless marriages and the inevitable divorcing of father Jethro.

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Granted it's not the surest route to success, but it's possible that they made the choice themselves because they want to get married.

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You and I are at an impasse.

Apropos of nothing, when do you think life begins?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The conservative press will be circumspect, as I said.

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You didn't address the question...WHY would/should they be circumspect?
Clearly, abstinence was not in play, nor was marriage (at least not until the family shotgun- which Palin apparently knows how to use- was brought down)...so why NOW is circumspection the path to take?

And BTW...your comment about Chelsea is exactly the kind of response you attribute to the lib press re: Palin.
You have absolutely no basis whatsoever to speculate on what Chelsea Clinton might do, yet you assert without reservation that she would have an abortion and cover it up.

For me once the brain starts functioning with awareness.

I saw this post on another forum and it summed up my thoughts quite well...

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I'm totally on board for "kids are off limits" but I'm going to need some help with this one because kids were apparently not entirely off limits for the past three days.

Kids were not off limits when Palin was happy to discuss her son joining the Army and going off to war in her first national speech.

Kids were not off limits when the campaign was touting her decision to have Trig and discuss his Down Syndrome as an example of her pro-life cred.

Today, however, kids are off limits.

Is there some sort of chart or cheat sheet that can help me sort out when it is okay to put the kids in the national spotlight and when it is not?

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I personally don't see her daughter getting pregnant as an issue. I know it will be to some degree but IMO it shouldn't be. Clocker is right about how it would be treated if it were Chelsea.

Regarding that quote about boundaries, given the crap made about Michelle obama over being proud of her country will questions be raised about taking off republican hats and putting on American hats?

J2k4

just for laughs

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com...candidate.html

Apparently, the Founding Fathers are highlanders.

Kids are off limits when it comes to tearing them down. If what either side says is in a positive light, then by all means, talk them up and be proud. But if your intent is to bring their actions to light as fodder to tear someone down, then that's where the line is drawn.

Should be obvious.

[QUOTE=clocker;2954981]

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The conservative press will be circumspect, as I said.

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Originally Posted by clocker

You didn't address the question...WHY would/should they be circumspect?

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Because they normally are; the liberal press has much less compunction.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Clearly, abstinence was not in play, nor was marriage (at least not until the family shotgun- which Palin apparently knows how to use- was brought down)...so why NOW is circumspection the path to take?

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Now-

How do you know the shotgun was in play?

Should Palin, rather than issue a statement on her daughter's behalf, shove her out front for the media?

How do you know the girl doesn't want to marry the fellow?

This is precisely the type of gaffe you attempt to take me to task for below, vis a vis Chelsea Clinton.

Think goose/gander.

That is not to say you shouldn't feel free to express the thought, you see.

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Originally Posted by clocker

And BTW...your comment about Chelsea is exactly the kind of response you attribute to the lib press re: Palin.

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Would you say (assuming you've been watching the coverage) the liberal press is being fair, at this point?

All I said was that, had Chelsea become pregnant, you'd never have known it one way or another, and guess why?

Just think, two days into this thing and you already know more about Bristol Palin than eight years of Chelsea revealed, all thanks to the liberal press.

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Originally Posted by clocker

You have absolutely no basis whatsoever to speculate on what Chelsea Clinton might do, yet you assert without reservation that she would have an abortion and cover it up.

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Tell me then, what exactly do I need to form the basis upon which to speculate about whatever I please?

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Originally Posted by Tracy

Kids are off limits when it comes to tearing them down. If what either side says is in a positive light, then by all means, talk them up and be proud. But if your intent is to bring their actions to light as fodder to tear someone down, then that's where the line is drawn.

Should be obvious.

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Perhaps that ought to be qualified:

If the young lady were out there stumping for Mom and McCain, an argument could be made for open season.

The libs don't get it, and the evidence is plain, judging from the whining about Michelle Obama's treatment and Barak's subsequent complaints.

The rule should be, Don't put anyone out front you don't want to see flayed.

In other words, to escape the harsh light, stay the fuck out of the sun and keep your mouth shut.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tracy

Kids are off limits when it comes to tearing them down. If what either side says is in a positive light, then by all means, talk them up and be proud. But if your intent is to bring their actions to light as fodder to tear someone down, then that's where the line is drawn.

Should be obvious.

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Perhaps that ought to be qualified:

If the young lady were out there stumping for Mom and McCain, an argument could be made for open season.

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Yeah, I agree with that to a point.

Where I'd differ would be that if she was out there simply talking good about her parents, then to a point she should still be off limits. Where she would be fair game is if she decided to join in on smearing the other side.

You expect kids to want to support their parents, and so long as they are being respectful of the other side and not debating the pro's or con's of the opponents, then let 'em do so.

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Originally Posted by Tracy

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Perhaps that ought to be qualified:

If the young lady were out there stumping for Mom and McCain, an argument could be made for open season.

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Yeah, I agree with that to a point.

Where I'd differ would be that if she was out there simply talking good about her parents, then to a point she should still be off limits. Where she would be fair game is if she decided to join in on smearing the other side.

You expect kids to want to support their parents, and so long as they are being respectful of the other side and not debating the pro's or con's of the opponents, then let 'em do so.

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Right.

In other words, no campaign appearances. ;)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Just think, two days into this thing and you already know more about Bristol Palin than eight years of Chelsea revealed, all thanks to the liberal press.

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Um, it was SARAH PALIN who made the announcement.
Her credentials as "lib press" are as shaky as her credentials for VP.

Having seen how half-assed the McCain vetting process was for Palin, one shudders to imagine the rest of his choices.

I still say she bows out.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The rule should be, Don't put anyone out front you don't want to see flayed.

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Someone like say:











Sarah Palin?

[youtube]874yiexEM_k[/youtube]


It's over the line to ask for an example of a claim made about her?

Seems it's over the line to ask anything about her.:whistling

I think it was a particularly funny complaint when he said you don't have to belittle her experience while he was doing just that himself to Obama.

That clip is everywhere today, and rightly so.
Besides, it's funny.

I see that McCain is now labeling any criticism of Palin as "sexist".
I guess we can wait for the "circumspect" conservative press to let us know what is permissible and what is not.

You'll be able to identify the "circumspect" conservative pundits because they'll be riding unicorns.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The rule should be, Don't put anyone out front you don't want to see flayed.

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Someone like say:











Sarah Palin?

[youtube]874yiexEM_k[/youtube]


It's over the line to ask for an example of a claim made about her?

Seems it's over the line to ask anything about her.:whistling

I think it was a particularly funny complaint when he said you don't have to belittle her experience while he was doing just that himself to Obama.

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Young Tucker obviously wasn't properly prepared; as has been noted, it wasn't a tough question, and he came across with the stink of a brain fart.

I would say that query will be asked again, and answered.

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Originally Posted by clocker

That clip is everywhere today, and rightly so.
Besides, it's funny.

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Yup.

Watch the polls over the next, oh, seven days or so.

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Originally Posted by clocker

I see that McCain is now labeling any criticism of Palin as "sexist".

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So angry over stolen tactics?

You really are upset, aren't you.

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Originally Posted by clocker

I guess we can wait for the "circumspect" conservative press to let us know what is permissible and what is not.

You'll be able to identify the "circumspect" conservative pundits because they'll be riding unicorns.

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Only if you get off your "everything but FOXNEWS" high horse.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Young Tucker obviously wasn't properly prepared; as has been noted, it wasn't a tough question, and he came across with the stink of a brain fart.

I would say that query will be asked again, and answered.

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So what is your opinion of McCain canceling Larry King because of it?

We appear to be in agreement that it wasn't an unreasonable question.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Young Tucker obviously wasn't properly prepared; as has been noted, it wasn't a tough question, and he came across with the stink of a brain fart.

I would say that query will be asked again, and answered.

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So what is your opinion of McCain canceling Larry King because of it?

We appear to be in agreement that it wasn't an unreasonable question.

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No, as I said, he was very obviously flummoxed at her repetition, and retreated stupidly to the safety of his own.

If I were McCain, I would be looking to cancel King myself, but certainly not because of any sort of risk, rather more because I find him to be insufferably smarmy when he goes in overmatched, and he hasn't faced off with anyone of intellect greater than his own, since, well.......forever.

Ole Lar doesn't strike fear into people, he just gets pissy, like Joan Rivers.

That it suits as a show of pique is just icing on the cake.

In other words, I don't think it warrants the thought to develop an opinion.

McCain has been on Larry King Live numerous times, why is King suddenly too smarmy and overmatched to be abided?
McCain loved the press as long as they wanted to joke around, now that the gloves are off I suspect he'll be permanently apoplectic.

BTW..."Young Tucker" was an official spokeperson for the McCain campaign.
Sent in to bray about Palin's leadership experience- HE was the one who brought up the National Guard bullshit- it's more than a little surprising he wasn't prepared to give a single example to back up the assertion.

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Originally Posted by clocker

McCain has been on Larry King Live numerous times, why is King suddenly too smarmy and overmatched to be abided?
McCain loved the press as long as they wanted to joke around, now that the gloves are off I suspect he'll be permanently apoplectic.

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Well, then.

If the Dems can boycott Brit Hume and be lauded all around, you're gonna try to wrack McCain for avoiding Larry King?

Funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clocker

BTW..."Young Tucker" was an official spokeperson for the McCain campaign.
Sent in to bray about Palin's leadership experience- HE was the one who brought up the National Guard bullshit- it's more than a little surprising he wasn't prepared to give a single example to back up the assertion.

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Is there another version of the interview, or is the lady named Tucker as well.

Surprising?

Acknowledged, but^?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Is there another version of the interview, or is the lady named Tucker as well.

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Sorry...do not understand.

Boy they REALLY know who she is :whistling



[youtube]btX1RVbgvzg[/youtube]

That's RNC Co-Chairwoman Jo Ann Davidson talking

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Originally Posted by clocker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Is there another version of the interview, or is the lady named Tucker as well.

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Sorry...do not understand.

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It sounded like the lady first broached the subject.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Boy they REALLY know who she is :whistling



[youtube]btX1RVbgvzg[/youtube]

That's RNC Co-Chairwoman Jo Ann Davidson talking

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:pinch:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

Sorry...do not understand.

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It sounded like the lady first broached the subject.

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Ah, I see.
That is an abridged clip...I watched the whole interview and Bounds is the one who first brings up the National Guard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clocker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

It sounded like the lady first broached the subject.

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Ah, I see.
That is an abridged clip...I watched the whole interview and Bounds is the one who first brings up the National Guard.

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Is there a link.

Here.

Well, a new day, and a workman-like job by the mainstream media has tarred the three eldest members of the Palin family, but to no avail.

I expect they'll start on the the other kids tomorrow, with the baby scheduled for Friday.

[youtube]CrG8w4bb3kg[/youtube]

oops.

I liked the bit where the woman said they chose some political bullshit about narratives instead of the best choice. Apparently not worried that she might be a bullshitter herself when "on mic"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-gender-card

oh my

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Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention

By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.


Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

___

Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.

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Apparently, the "Big Lie" is alive and well.

I personally think Palin is a bit of a gamble on McCain's part. He only met her a couple of times before the pick. Her somewhat fundamentalist (of the Pat Buchanan variety) views I think might be worrisome to middle of the road Republicans. I suppose it really depends if anything untoward creeps out of the woodwork. The daughter could, of her own volition, throw a spanner in the works.

It may be a gamble that pays off or it may not. I think when the dust settles Democrats might be glad it is not Romney or Rudi - I quite like the latter.

I feel a bit sorry for the son heading off to Iraq - talk about painting a target on someone's arse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggles

I personally think Palin is a bit of a gamble on McCain's part. He only met her a couple of times before the pick. Her somewhat fundamentalist (of the Pat Buchanan variety) views I think might be worrisome to middle of the road Republicans. I suppose it really depends if anything untoward creeps out of the woodwork. The daughter could, of her own volition, throw a spanner in the works.

It may be a gamble that pays off or it may not. I think when the dust settles Democrats might be glad it is not Romney or Rudi - I quite like the latter.

I feel a bit sorry for the son heading off to Iraq - talk about painting a target on someone's arse.

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Would you draw out the Buchanan parallel a bit, Les. :mellow:

Here's what our tabs are doing-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wJik26tDmE

Sorry it's Foxnews.






























Fuck no, not really. :whistling

So US Weekly- a tabloid famous for stories about Angelina Jolie's "Twisted Double Life" and still revealing "secrets" about Anna Nichol Smith- is how you define the "lib press"?

It's a trashy supermarket news stand scandal sheet and as representative of the serious press as Rush Limbaugh is of intelligent political discourse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Sarah Palin, current Governor of Alaska, has been selected by John McCain to run as VP on the Republican ticket.

A splendid pick, I think. :whistling

Respond immediately, all of you. :mellow:

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A splendid pick to win the election or a splendid pick as in "a good choice to take over as President of our United States should something unfortunate befall John McCain"?

I thought you would have trashed the pick, quite honestly....unless you pick my first reason.

edit: Well I just read most of this thread and I guess I gave you too much credit. As always....the hive mind is ruling. Clocker has you handled though. With the glut of material out there, it's too easy.

As a side note: I must say with this Sarah Palin pick, it is like some Twilight Zone shit...first the pick itself, then hearing all these Republican party goers talk as if it's great for the country. It's like everyone at the RNC was told what to say in advance and actually believe it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

It's like everyone at the RNC was told what to say in advance and actually believe it.

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Don't say the word "choice"!