By anyone. If there is no physical source, it can't be historic because no one would remember it. And if they would it would be a story, not a historical fact.
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By anyone. If there is no physical source, it can't be historic because no one would remember it. And if they would it would be a story, not a historical fact.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Historically significant. Will the future people look back and see it as historically significant. Another step on the road to equality.
A great man once said.
“It’s not the creed nor nationality that counts. It’s the man himself”
That surely extends to everything else, all born equal and so forth.
Are we there yet.
That's mental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skweeky
Are you saying that Kennedy being assassinated isn't historic? It was caught on film so even when we're all dead, that fact will still exist in an historical sense for future generations.
Facts are facts, to say they aren't in the absence of witnesses is kitchen sink zen.
Well yes, film counts as physical evidence, as would a written record of it. That's what I'm saying. In empirical research a historical event is something that has a physical record. The definition is a lot broader than that, but that's what it comes down to.
No, certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".
Not one jot before.
Meaning that someone has to know about the event for it to be historical, otherwise how would we know about it?
Edit: This was meant as a post script for my own post, not Kev's.
Oh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4No, certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".
Not one jot before.
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.
Of course no black person voted for him strictly on the basis of colour.:blink:
Just as no white person voted against him on the same basis.:(
The race card was always in the deck even if you didn't see it played.
Still racists then.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4No, certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
When we elect a minority and race doesn't merit a mention we will have "arrived".
Not one jot before.
Hopefully a step in the right direction tho'.
For clarification of my last.
Colour is still an issue, just one that people can see past now.
Either you aren't actually from the U.S., or you are the most naive and intellectually bereft person on this continent.Quote:
Originally Posted by pentomatoOh but we are, people never saw Obama as a black man, americans saw and see him as a leader with hope, somebody that can makes us feel proud to be americans again, to be respected in the world again.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Obama didn't run as a black man, he did as new hope.
I'm leaning toward the latter.
Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Whites compound the problem with their guilt.
It's pretty stupid, really.
Of course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.
For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaulOf course it's a "bigger hang-up for the blacks" they are primarily the victims and have been since they were enslaved. It's maybe the centuries of oppression they are reacting to. Wouldn't you agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
I don't even want to begin to think what "Whites compound the problem with their guilt." means.
Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.
I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.
I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.
That is one of the most appalling posts it has been my misfortune not to avoid reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Whites, therefore (and I assume you can discern the relevance) need to let go the guilt that should have perished with their elders.
I understand the reluctance to forego historic beliefs, but for many it is an active aversion, not to be given up without a pound or two of flesh and/or reparations.
I don't believe "getting even" is an entitlement.
What does it have to do with "old beliefs"
"For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites."
Tell that to the white southerners who are still (last few days) saying things like "To be honest I've never really seen the point in blacks".
Read pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skweeky
Just finished reading the rest of the thread. When did the Lounge become serious bidness? :O
There is no end to anecdotal recollection, but for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaulThat is one of the most appalling posts it has been my misfortune not to avoid reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
What does it have to do with "old beliefs"
"For it all to finally elapse requires old beliefs be relinquished, which is (my opinion) a greater problem for blacks than whites."
Tell that to the white southerners who are still (last few days) saying things like "To be honest I've never really seen the point in blacks".
Think of the FACT of liberal plants in pointy white hats at republican rallies screaming that they wanted Obama's testicles on a platter.
I know you heard about this; I sure did.
Then think of a hostile media watching and reporting, but going no further, while law enforcement stands idly by.
Can you imagine this as reality with the media and the libs (and the conservatives as well) slavering to tear their hoods off before the cameras.
If these had been the genuine article, you'd have seen them (and their recognizable, identifiable faces) on camera, don't you think.
Most if not all of what you hear along those lines is fabrication, Jim.
If you want to see genuine southern racism, watch the Bill and Hill show.
They don't preach it, but they sure do practice it.
Don't ask me, Mr. Mod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
I just go with the flow. :whistling
Let me see if I understand. So whites voted for Obama because they felt guilty? My ass they did, they voted for Obama because of his ideas and because he is not another boy from the Washington club.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Either you aren't actually from the U.S., or you are the most naive and intellectually bereft person on this continent.Quote:
Originally Posted by pentomato
I'm leaning toward the latter.
Yes, but I will go right out to the end of the limb to say racism, however it is perceived, is a bigger hang-up for blacks than whites, these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Whites compound the problem with their guilt.
It's pretty stupid, really.
Damn republicans, you just find any reason to justify crapm guess what? Obama is your president, like it or not deal with it.
Do you feel like killing yourself? lol lol lol, usually that happens after a black man wins the elections and somebody reminds you of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoRead pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skweeky
Long life to Obama.
Ignoring her? lol lol lol lol lol I must make a beautiful woman then, don't you wish you could have me?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoRead pentomato's recent posts in the Drawing Room. You'll see after that that ignoring her altogether the best option. I don't even bother reading her shite anymore. True story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skweeky
Fuck off. You're giving us Obama supporters a bad name, lad.
-bd :dabs:
I guess I'll take Skizo's advice on this one.
Twice in one month him and I agree. :fear:
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
So the people booing Obama at McCain's concession speech were "liberal plants"?
Funny thing...at McCain's party- invitation only, hand-picked attendees- there is audible booing several times at the mention of Obama.
At Grant Park in Chicago, where a couple hundred thousand gathered by open invitation, there is dead silence during McCain's speech.
I guess all the liberal plants were rooted in Arizona that day.
I think race isn't an issue except for a rapidly dieing out fraction of society. As a first it is noteworthy in US history, but the true time when the racist America myth can be laid to rest would be when a black republican not only wins his party nomination but keeps turnout high enough to win those southern red states in the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Those states didn't vote against Obama because of his skin color. They did so because of political ideology.
That said I can't help but think it would be a lot like the black sheriff in the blazing saddles movie turning up in Rockridge, only to have everyone support him in fighting the evil commie liberal that the democratic party runs with.
"...racist American myth...", you're having a laugh.
I'm not saying it's not much better than it was FFS I never thought I would see a black POTUS but it's no myth.
this thread shouldnt have lived past the first day
I'm not suggesting that there is no racism in the US. You only have to listen to talk radio to see that. I'm not suggesting that it was a myth yesteryear in some states or that some clinging to that time aren't still walking.
I'm talking about the entire USA, Which if you take as a whole and not attribute the lowest fringe as the whole is no more racist than most of the rest of the world.
You're having an even bigger laugh now.
What was the civil rights movement in the USA about then, if racism wasn't endemic.
"Dead silence during McCain's speech"?Quote:
Originally Posted by clockerWhat?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
So the people booing Obama at McCain's concession speech were "liberal plants"?
Funny thing...at McCain's party- invitation only, hand-picked attendees- there is audible booing several times at the mention of Obama.
At Grant Park in Chicago, where a couple hundred thousand gathered by open invitation, there is dead silence during McCain's speech.
I guess all the liberal plants were rooted in Arizona that day.
The height of magnanimity, eh?
BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.
Might I suggest that it didn't happen.
Here's another question:
Given the "inevitablity" of progressive liberalism, how is it that a gay marriage ban passed in California, put over the top, one hears, by the black vote?
A few boo'ing hecklers says nothing about anything, except those few hecklers. It has nothing to do with the party or a single other person in attendance that night.
Sometimes losing isn't gracious, though John showed everyone it can be done impeccably.
Which is why they didn't win this time. I suppose two in a row would have been pushing their luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
If you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?
There was segregation in the everywhere in the United States, but europe is much worst when it comes to racism, here at least we can sue the hell out of everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocateIf you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?
Oh but there was stories of people not been register when they went to vote, Tim Robins an actor, houndreds more in New York, voting machines registering votes for Mccain when people voted for Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4"Dead silence during McCain's speech"?Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
The height of magnanimity, eh?
BTW - tell me why, this time around, the news is not rife with stories of republican vote-stealing, intimidation, and cheating.
Might I suggest that it didn't happen.
Here's another question:
Given the "inevitablity" of progressive liberalism, how is it that a gay marriage ban passed in California, put over the top, one hears, by the black vote?
This time THEY didn't steal the election because the press was all over the place, and people were watching this time.
You see this time even the poor didn't mind to wait for hours to vote, there was to much to loose and four more years of the same garbage, no way jose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
He's right.
We have anti-discrimination laws, yes. They are there to make discrimination illegal, I think that's self evident.Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsadvocateIf you look back at my first response you will see I wrote about the southern states. These sates are only part of a nation comprising of 50. There was segregation in the south, NOT the whole USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPaul
Really, so everyone had equal rights elsewhere. No underclass other than in the southern states. Really.
Tell me, do you have anti discrimination laws in your country? If you do, why?
We also have laws against murder, rape, theft and a whole raft of other things which we don't want to happen. That's kind of how it works. Again fairly self evident I would have thought.
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