Snny,
Your first graph is somewhat misleading as it shows Production not reserves.
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Snny,
Your first graph is somewhat misleading as it shows Production not reserves.
Clocker: I tried to show how much oil the US imports, It's actually oil import per day, Iraq's reserves on the other hand are supposed to be on par with those of Saudi-Arabia, I mixed up my numbers earlier so I was trying to show what I was thinking about.
I don't think they went into Iraq for oil per se, though close links with whatever government comes to power is undoubtedly a benefit they considered. I think that quite a lot of people in power have wanted to get rid of Saddam for a long time. It was only after 9/11 that they finally managed to get the public support necessary to do it.
Only the religeous fanatics can stop this conflict, they started it 'only they can stop it. When they learn, like the civilised world, to put religeon in its proper place way down on the important things to do list, they might, only might, get on with the job of living, but i'm not holding my breath. the world has been blighted for hundreds, no, thousands of years, with this religeon crap, will we never learn? :angry:Quote:
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@11 September 2003 - 15:44
I'd like to hear your opinions on the situation in Palestine \ Israel.
But I'd also ask you not to hold back what you really feel.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to see a resolution to the conflict in Palestine.
I hold Israel and the United States to be mostly at fault for the situation as it stands.
I want Israel to immediately cease their terror campaign against innocent civilians.
I want Israel to withdraw back to pre 1967 borders, and take the settlers with them.
I want Hamas, and whoever else is doing it, to cease the suicide bombings.
I want the United States to withhold all support for Israel if they refuse to act now.
That should be enough to start.
:ph34r:
Dream on|||Quote:
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@12 September 2003 - 13:26
Quote:
I'd say, if U.S. "departed" from the area, all these things would come naturally...
I don't believe it would come about naturally if the US left.Quote:
How would these things come about naturally?
I don't believe it would lead to war either.
I still say the key to peace is Israel, they hold the cards, it's time to deal them out.
The question is, does the United States have the courage to tell Israel they will cut all financial ties if they don't comply with United Nation's resolutions.
:ph34r:
This would be much easier to believe, if Rumsfeld hadnt been pushing to invade Iraq for the Oil Reserves since the mid '90s.....openlyQuote:
Originally posted by ilw@12 September 2003 - 19:06
I don't think they went into Iraq for oil per se, though close links with whatever government comes to power is undoubtedly a benefit they considered. I think that quite a lot of people in power have wanted to get rid of Saddam for a long time. It was only after 9/11 that they finally managed to get the public support necessary to do it.
In fact he only stopped AFTER 9/11, when they decided there was a spin they could use to get public support.... ie Take advantage of the situation created.
I don't really see why oil is an urgent thing at the moment though, Saudi Arabias's reserves are pretty substantial. I'm sure another country producing large amounts would lower the price but OPEC would surely try and minimise the effect of this.
Btw Donald Rumsfeld is IMO much more of an arse even than Bush.
The strikes in Venezuela didnt help.
And its the Reserves that are important......those nodding donkey pumps all over the USA are not a good sign, these appear only when you have to force the oil out of the ground, as most has been removed already.
To put into context:
Iraq has the 2nd largest reserves...ie actual oil in the ground,,,in the world.
Thats only enough oil...if these were the only fields, to last the world 4 years.
New Oil fields are found every year, however at only 10% of what is needed to replace spent fields.
A Documentary recently shown on UK TV had various "experts" from Government and various Oil Companies.....
They varied in their opinion of how much oil is left, obviously...however the most optimistic opinion given (Shell oil Company) was 15 years.
Add into all this, that North America uses 50% of all Oil produced (mostly USA)......and that is scary shit for any Government.
The analysts are already calling Iraq the "1st of the Oil Wars".....
The bottom line is that the Oil Companies have, for years, been buying the patents of inventions that would damage their industry....not so much more economical engines (although this did happen in the past....engines that could run 80mpg were developed in the 50's/60's), but engines that dont use Petrol/Gasoline.
They cant fight the Power Industry (same side?) so Electric/Hybrid cars get developed. Gas is also related, so they play with Hydrogen etc....
.....but what happened to the family saloon that ran 10,000 miles a year on the equivalent of a Soccer Field of Rape Seed, which i saw on display about 10 years ago?
The technical specifications showed less wear on the engine, hense less maintainance..OK, the Top speed was reduced by 20pmh or so....but it could still hit 100mph (30mph more than the legal limit in UK, and more than some smaller cars on sale)
I heard some people in Wales are running their cars on some sort of Spirit, and are getting arrested for avoiding Taxes...what kind of craziness is that? They pay a lot of tax on spirits.....just not as much as they would for petrol.
EDIT:
Appologise for being off-topic... :unsure: :'( :wacko:
http://jrobb.mindplex.org/stories/2002/12/...3OilAndWar.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/677610.stm
http://www.opec.org/
I disagree with your figures RF according to OPEC we have 80 years of oil left (though that figure is a few years old and is almost sure to be optimistic) and other estimates I've seen seem to be in the 40 - 80 range. Iraq's proven oil (NB likely reserves are considerably larger) could only provide oil for 4 years as you say however, saudi arabia has 2x as much and the next 4 countries after Iraq are not so far behind in terms of reserves :
Saudi Arabia: 261,750
Iraq: 112,500
United Arab Emirates: 97,800
Kuwait: 96,500
Iran: 89,700
Venezuela: 77,685
America is estimated to use about 25 - 30% of World oil. The interesting thing that the first link pointed out is that American reserves are running out rapidly and America will be more dependent than ever on the Middle East. (Though America has massive stores of barrels of crude).
I saw that thing in wales as well that was people mixing cooking oil and i think methane. Supermarkets for miles around were sold out of oil for weeks until they realised what was going on. Apparently you still have to pay duty on fuel (though its still cheaper than petrol/diesel)
As i said, I havent researched....just watched that Documentary.
However Shell Oil was the most Optimistic @ 15 years....of course that doesnt mean the program didnt pick and choose what was included ;)
I also said North America used 50%.........this includes Canada and Mexico...just that USA used most of this %....your figures may well be the USA's (America's) percentage. I think that, in part, North Americans are unfairly critised....they are large countries, and people NEED cars in the towns, country...
The critisism of the "Gas Guzzlers" i feel is justified, but smaller cars are becoming more common, even in USA. I have as much Criticism of some ponce in a Porche/Jaguar/Land Rover in Europe as i do for someone in a Chevy/Cadalac/un needed Pickup Truck in USA (as examples)
I think that 40-80 years is way over the top.......if it was this much, i doubt that there would be a lot of pressure to secure what there is....and there is a LOT of pressure.
What you wrote about Wales rang a bell, I couldnt remember the details....thanks :)
Dont suppose you could come back with the mixture they used for me? ;)
A few maps I found ...
The first one is the UN proposal for two states, from 1947
http://www.piczonline.com/client/bowrabob/map1947.jpg
This one, from 1949, was the land the Israelis took after the Arabs rejected the UN proposal.
http://www.piczonline.com/client/bowrabob/map1949.jpg
This last one shows the present occupation of Palestinian land.
http://www.piczonline.com/client/bowrabob/mapnow.jpg
Here is the full text of the "Roadmap to Peace."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/2989783.stm
B)
Currently around 160 Palestinian children are being held as political prisoners by the Israeli government. Almost without exception, these children face torture while under interrogation, are denied family visits and are incarcerated in circumstances deleterious to their health and well being.
??????????????????????
http://www.dci-pal.org/prisonweb/childprisoners.html
unfuc*ingbelievable (spelling!!! <_< ). after reading all 4 pages, hasn't it struck anyone that america in cooperation with israel is targeting the muslims? doesn't it strike u a tee bit that many muslim countries are filled with oil, like: saudi arabia, iraq, iran, nigeria, chechnya, algeria, afghanistan. this is the biggest bunch of bullshit that israel has come up with. I think, imho, that israel should just fu*k off, and no, i'm not a zionist. i have nothing against the jews or judaism, and i'm not muslim if that's what ur probably thinking. it was britian and america that established israel (i think, kinda forgot) and why did they? simple, the jews were a smart ppl and they still are. now, that the israeli government has literraly taken over the western world, (coca cola, cnn, u name it), it's puppeteering america to do whatever it wants. all the while, israeli's don't know what's going on. someone should seriously try and assissnate rumsfeld, cheyne, bush, and sharon. bush attacks iraq, why? weapons of mass destruction? oil? saddam hussein? jesus christ, whatever happened to finding osama bin laden? wtf is going on? i honestly don't know, only bush and sharon know that. i can see this conflict going for years, if the israelis give back the land, ppl in israel will revolt, and if things keep going the way they are going, well, we all know what that would means. and the thing that really gets to me is how kids today are growing up with this pro-israeli influence. i'm only 15, and i know the truth, my friends actually think it's the right thing that america attacked iraq. one thing i also don't get is, 9/11. why did they attack afghanistan? i supported it, until i found out about the oil pipelines that run through afghanistan. this just tears me up inside, ppl killing, sorry, ethnically cleansing others for what? land? oil? if america attacked iraq in 1991 because it invaded kuwait, why didn't they respond and do the same (immediately) to the bosnia-serbia conflict? all this kinda leads us back to: ISRAEL. so, now that the government of israel controls the western world, what's next? weapons of mass destruction found in iran? how about algeria? or nigeria? ohh, here's a catchy one:
Bush: "I'm one hundred percent positive that, infact, Saudi Arabia has or is building weapons of mass destruction". 1.3 billion muslims, that's a lot, that' s how many there are around the world. imagine if you will, if america attacked saudi arabia. would the muslims just sit there, and let there holiest place be conquered? oh that's right, it already has and no one knows about it, hush now. the saudi monarchy (i'm pretty sure it's not democratic) is just another puppet government of america which in turn is a puppet government of israel. why else would saudi arabia allow america to let troops, of another religion, set foot there during the gulf war? why, is saudi arabia in debt to U.A.E. for 1 trillion USD? i'll tell u why, the saudi's payed for every single bullet used in the gulf war.
the thing that makes me mad is, why, after all these years, hasn't israel given back any land, instead they just take up more. the day i die, will be the day i truly am happy. it sickens me everytime that i turn on the tv, in this subliminally contolled continent called north america, and hear something about the middle east, and how the "terrorists" killed another bunch of "innocent ppl". fuc*ing pls. for every israeli dead, there's about 20 arabs dead. why, i ask u, would anyone suicide themselves? just because someone told them to? no. because they grew up in a world of hell, where everything, down to water, was controlled by someone else, a world where u saw ur own house tumbled to the ground, a world where u saw ur parents killed by soldiers as an act of "compensation" or "justice", in a world where u have nothing to live for anymore. i definately would suicide myself, but hell, while i'm at it, why not take out a bunch of "infidels" with me. that is very wrong, but it gives u some insight as to why there are suicide bombers, ooops! i mean terrorists!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
i'll be back tomorrow with a bunch of other stuff. :angry:
Good on you Azad. Are you really 15?
I think if you read back to the very beginning you'll see that view expressed.Quote:
unfuc*ingbelievable (spelling!!! ). after reading all 4 pages, hasn't it struck anyone that america in cooperation with israel is targeting the muslims?
Come back soon.
:)
America pushed for NATO to step in when the UN failed miserably in protecting the Muslim community. (see Srebrenica massacre & opening of Srebrenica memorial)Quote:
Originally posted by cpt_azad@21 September 2003 - 09:19
why didn't they respond and do the same (immediately) to the bosnia-serbia conflict?
Do you mean targeting muslims worldwide and have you got a good reason why they would want to do this?Quote:
hasn't it struck anyone that america in cooperation with israel is targeting the muslims?
okay ilw, the thing is, stated above in my last post that americans in general are the best kinda ppl i know. it's just the government. israel, last time i checked, has had a pretty rough time with the arabs, and muslims in general. since the american economy is controlled by israel, israel can pretty much make them (america) do what they want. so, in a nutshell now: israels :angry: at muslims, israel tells america to attack iraq or else <_<. i thought, at first, that america attacked iraq because israel was scared that saddam was going to launch an attack on them. but then i realized that it was half true, oil really being the motivation and all. maybe i'm wrong, maybe i'm right, it doesn't matter, the truth is, yes, ISRAEL MUST COOPERATE with the UN. oh, and sorry about my earlier post about bosnia, didn't read up on it till this morning, my bad :( , but hey, atleast i admitided (spelling!!!), something that the israeli government can never do (neither george w "COUGH*bastard*COUGH*, i mean bush). oh, ya, i'm 15 :D .Quote:
Do you mean targeting muslims worldwide and have you got a good reason why they would want to do this?
Interesting stuff here.Quote:
Originally posted by cpt_azad@21 September 2003 - 15:54
israel, last time i checked, has had a pretty rough time with the arabs, and muslims in general. since the american economy is controlled by israel, israel can pretty much make them (america) do what they want.
The understatement of the century followed by a completely unsupportable assumption.
Bravo.
Interesting stuff here.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker+22 September 2003 - 00:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 22 September 2003 - 00:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cpt_azad@21 September 2003 - 15:54
israel, last time i checked, has had a pretty rough time with the arabs, and muslims in general. since the american economy is controlled by israel, israel can pretty much make them (america) do what they want.
The understatement of the century followed by a completely unsupportable assumption.
Bravo. [/b][/quote]
Clocker,
Don't you understand America is completely reliant on Israel for comedians. If we do not toe the line, no more Seinfelds, Jonathon Stewarts, or Jackie Masons.
Did he say 15 or 1.5 years of age.
I don't know whether to burp him or spank him. Anyway, he would be more comfortable in the lounge.
Hobbes, have you not been following the news?Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@21 September 2003 - 16:15
Don't you understand America is completely reliant on Israel for comedians. If we do not toe the line, no more Seinfelds, Jonathon Stewarts, or Jackie Masons.
Did he say 15 or 1.5 years of age.
We invaded Iraq so we could plunder the country of it's comediens.
We haven't been dependent on Israel for quite a while.
Maybe the cpt is using metric years.
Hobbes, have you not been following the news?Quote:
Originally posted by clocker+22 September 2003 - 00:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 22 September 2003 - 00:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@21 September 2003 - 16:15
Don't you understand America is completely reliant on Israel for comedians. If we do not toe the line, no more Seinfelds, Jonathon Stewarts, or Jackie Masons.
Did he say 15 or 1.5 years of age.
We invaded Iraq so we could plunder the country of it's comediens.
We haven't been dependent on Israel for quite a while.
Maybe the cpt is using metric years. [/b][/quote]
I was actually expecting a comment on my tits. Maybe you have found a better pair? Anyway, this is apparently a mature area, sometimes it is hard to tell.
The Iraqi information minister is filming a pilot comedy as we speak!
Oh please.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@21 September 2003 - 16:22
I was actually expecting a comment on my tits. Maybe you have found a better pair? Anyway, this is apparently a mature area, sometimes it is hard to tell.
I respect you for your mind, not your bountiful bosom.
Children, children............papa spank.
Go and spam the lounge if you feel the need.
okay there.... understatment of the century? unsupportable? please, do u watch the news? oh that's right, u probably watch cnn (i know that sounds like a flame, but it isn't, i'm assuming u do, no hard feelings or anything. last thing i want is a flame war ;) ). i live in canada, and cbc is good enough, atleast it isn't biased. i get my "REAL" news on a topic from both perspectives. so, who can try and flame me next <_<? btw, this is a really good thread :D .
Tsk, tsk, tsk, cpt.
Questioning my television viewing habits is not support of your statement.
Please provide a few concrete examples of why you think that Israel controls the American economy.
Hey! Rat Face You leave the lounge alone! :P
Clocker,Quote:
Originally posted by clocker@22 September 2003 - 02:03
Tsk, tsk, tsk, cpt.
Questioning my television viewing habits is not support of your statement.
Please provide a few concrete examples of why you think that Israel controls the American economy.
He watches the REAL news, not your biased American drivel. Oh wait, you can watch the same thing he does.
Anyway, how do you decide that the news you watch is unbiased unless you want to believe that.
If it supports my ideal, it is unbiased.
My personal opinion is that there is no real answer to this situation and that the parties concerned should go back to the original 1948 boundaries and let the UN control it from there. Taking into consideration that it was not their(UN) problem to begin with.
Must we go to petty insults?
Israel controling America? not really believable, Israel has nothing on america, not military superiority, not economic (i think) not even population, Israel doesnt have the ability to have control but what i believe to be going on is a I scratch your back you scratch mine system going on, Israel shares a common goal with America and Europe, for all three the threat is Muslims, and whats the best means of control? Distraction, providing an optical illusion, while other things are done, the entire Muslim world is split on Israel and what to do about it, and while they argue among them selves and get slaughtered by the Isralites, the americans can pretty much do what they want. As for bias in the media, every form of media is biased, as hobbes said "If it supports my ideal, it is unbiased." and reporters and news stations seem to follow the same route.
as for Israel & Palestine, give the land back to the Arabs and seeing how America loves Israel so much give up one of its states... i suggest alaska :lol: :P.
Any way, ask Illuminati, I am sure he knows about this whole Distraction method, and conspiracy theories.
Come on Noname! It has nothing to do with Muslims. It is a Jewish problem. 'not in my back door' so put them in your back door. And please! Do not come back with the promised land rubbish. Most of the books on this were written after the dark ages when anyone who wrote anything unpopular to the religion of the day was burnt at the stake or something worse, if that is possible.
What promised land? well Israel is a promised land... its been promised to the palestinians for years... but they aint got it yet :P, as for the rest.... I didnt really understand :unsure: :huh: :lol:
Or you did not want to understand. That was the whole point.
I do want to understand... but i dont see what that has to do with my original post? I didnt really call into question the beliefs of any one... or did I? (cheesy soap music)
Like I said move them off to Alaska, problem solved.
Move who off to Alaska?
Move Israel to Alaska
Then you will have an Enuit Jewish problem.
Interesting theory.Quote:
Originally posted by noname12@21 September 2003 - 18:36
Distraction, providing an optical illusion, while other things are done, the entire Muslim world is split on Israel and what to do about it, and while they argue among them selves and get slaughtered by the Isralites, the americans can pretty much do what they want. Any way, ask Illuminati, I am sure he knows about this whole Distraction method, and conspiracy theories.
Too bad that the Israelis are NOT slaughtering the "entire Muslim world" and the Americans are hardly doing "what they want".
Don't you think that if our main goal in Iraq was to steal the oil and pillage the country, as has been suggested several times, that we could have seized the oil fields and had oil on tankers within a couple of days? We could have removed anything we considered to be of value and been gone long before now.
Sorry, but the "distraction theory" doesn't hold up in my opinion.
Actually I am one of the very few people who think America have no interest in the oil fields in Iraq, America has enough oil to go around... theres more to this thing then meets the eye... well thats what I think any way... and clocker, it wouldnt be a good distraction plot if we where able to openly see what was going on, now would it :P, that would kinda defeat the purpose of a conspiracy :)
bigboab, its either that or move them to Texas.
Now that is a thought! :P