we all know thats true.. but, lets stick to the topic
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we all know thats true.. but, lets stick to the topic
Heres what little or no tracker staff will understand. There is going to be good users and bad users no matter what system they implement, no matter how many or little invites they give out. There is NOTHING you can do to stop it short of removing invites altogether. Every tracker should just give every user a set number of invites depending on how big they want the tracker to get, and let them use them. Then ban accordingly. Sure, an invite giveaway has a possibility of bringing in a very bad user, but it could also bring in an excellent user that would have otherwise not had the chance to join. My 2 cents.Quote:
Originally Posted by stoi
Well regarding getting them from other trackers and a decent cheat script.
How do you know they are not cheating their ass off on that site, just to get to PU to get into those invite forums to get somewhere else.
They then get on a site that takes cheating a lot more serious, they cheat straight away again to get to a higher class to get into another site (lvls again) but this time they get caught.
So not only have you brought in a cheater, but him and you will probably get a global ban from most trackers out there.
Like i have said on numerous occasions, just because they are a good member of tracker A (or look like one) does not mean they are actually a good member.
We have VIPs that are those that go above and beyond what they should do on the tracker, we have 30,000 members, we have 13 VIPs, and some of those are X-Staff, so that just goes to show how hard it is to get a good member.
little or no tracker staff will understand?? who do ya think started the thread?? and there have been a couple other tracker staff(from diferrent trackers) responding as well.. lol.. they know better than anyone, what the deal is... the question was what would you do/suggest to slow/curb or stop the insanity....Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam1990
you just need a good, powerful group of moderators to supervise the members and be involved in the right places to catch the traders / account sellers.
But see stoi, that is what cabalo and i are trying to say....make it personal. Don't chose recruiters based on any sort of user class, and in turn the recruiters also don't go out and judge based on tracker status
Ok but to me that is fine if you are happy with 20 new members a month, but that would drive me batty lol for me i would need about 600 recruiters lol
Would you rather have 20 active, respectable users per month or 595 members who dont give a shit, and 5 who do?
a good recruiter doesn't recruit from a solo place.
it's his "job" to scour several sites looking for the potentially good ones.
It would be up to you to adjust the level of "pickyness" they would have to use.
if a recruiter achieves a 70% success rate, it would be excellent in my books.
success meaning = traders or cheaters ( i don't go as far as immediately active members, as i know for my own experience that some times i take quite some time to start leeching from a site).
about this, how did the experiment with that giveaway of blue_skies went? if i'm allowed to ask ?
lmao :01:Quote:
Originally Posted by stoi
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamacita
I might have thought of a way to deliver the "the personal touch" virtually. It goes back to the psychological profiling thing I touched on earlier
What if you had some kind of online application form that gave your perspective applicant a series of multiple choice questions that were picked randomly from your question bank.
Once the form was submitted it would be automatically checked and a score would be given based on the answers provided.
might take a while to setup if you wanted to write your own questions but there must be code out there that does this as a lot of companies will use this type of test as part of the interview process.
I'm not saying this is the answer to every trackers problems however could be something in it.
i guess invites / open signup and thats about it
if u want to be good member just help people and make many friends
hahahaha from which planet did you arrive?Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoi92
did you just land at planet earth?
I think an approach like this might work if it were done in a way where a recruiting "committee" and staff could jointly talk about the applications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Time-Traveller
The problem with apps is that, like many have said before, they create a lot more tedious work than might be needed. i can tell you this from a personal point of view because I was a moderator and DM of a NWN persistant world, and we only allowed certain multi-classes and subraces via a request system.
Let me tell you, after a while, you simply stop reading the requests, or start putting them off and procrastinating. Then all of a sudden your request or application system is a failure and actually unfair to others, since its a dead end.
K in that case I vote we just go with Dragoi's solution it's both simple and elequant, take me to your leader lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mamacitaI think an approach like this might work if it were done in a way where a recruiting "committee" and staff could jointly talk about the applications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Time-Traveller
The problem with apps is that, like many have said before, they create a lot more tedious work than might be needed. i can tell you this from a personal point of view because I was a moderator and DM of a NWN persistant world, and we only allowed certain multi-classes and subraces via a request system.
Let me tell you, after a while, you simply stop reading the requests, or start putting them off and procrastinating. Then all of a sudden your request or application system is a failure and actually unfair to others, since its a dead end.
There is no tried and tested method so it comes down to what works for each particular site. As has already been proved, open reg didn't work for BCG as too many members created dupe accounts and invites get traded.
I'm sure that there are members, other than staff, willing to recruit for the site who will do background checks on potential members. You have a dozen people doing this and you should bring in some decent new members. The only problem is that you would have to change the rules for these recruiters so that they are not penalised if they bring in a bad member but neither do they get anything in return if they bring in good members. At least that way you know they are just doing it for the good of the site.
Yeah, I thought Naix's post above his was the worst of the thread, then I read dragoi92's post and was quickly corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalohahahaha from which planet did you arrive?Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoi92
did you just land at planet earth?
Ffs whats wrong with you guy's you can't even recognise true genius when you see it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by integralYeah, I thought Naix's post above his was the worst of the thread, then I read dragoi92's post and was quickly corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalo
haha!
Btw, it feels good to finally have a decent discussion around here. I haven't found a topic like this in a long time that prompted me to start posting a lot.
Biggest Problem is that Rarity is more or less in almost everyone's minds . invite-only sites or a site in a WTAW thread are the only ones whih brings a curiosity to them . Thats the way it is almost everywhere sadly .
Personally speaking , open signups is the way to go . Problem of dupe accounts , trading doesnt occur . Rotten Accounts having 0up 0down go away provided there's an auto script . The Rarity Crap messes it all up . UBer-SEcreTZ Trackers thingy works only in promoting the site , not getting good users . Been here a long time to see many trackers opting the "Super-Secret-TRacker!!!!" method to get in curious ppl and then fading away in 3 months .
Good Users will love the Site IRRESPECTIVE whether the site is open signups , is lvl 3124253463536566 or invite-only . The Rotten users will go away and you will have users who will actually value the Site irrespective of any rarity shit. In that way you will have much better Users than closing it alltogther . The Collectors wont be interested since its open signups and their accounts will get deleted . At the start there will be a influx due to the curiosity but eventually the ones interested will be the ones left .The ones who were deleted would probably never come back thinking " hey it was open signups , its ok forget it . i will register later if i need something" . In this way there is more chance of getting better users .
There are Pros and Cons in almost every options mentioned , but personally i feel this is a good solution .
we have integral
little einstein
As I have stated before, I would follow the model of What from the beginning to what happens now.
The first week or two they were open, they would let anyone in on IRC, then they gave invites to members. That opened the floodgates to get what they needed... members.
After that, Im sure plenty of people were weeded out for being "bad" users.
Now step two. IRC interviews. What is in a unique situation becuase that are a dedicated tracker, granted. But this could hold true for an HD site, a music site, a movie only site. (KG has done IRC interviews in the past as well). Interview to see what a person is all about and if you find them satisfatory, invite them... if not... sorry pal.
That would be my personal model from day 1
Best way imo is simple, staff do recruitment threads and / or irc interviews when / if they need new members, that way they decided who they get in, i also prefer to get invited by staff because your account is safer, your not gonna get banned because the guy who invited you traded or something. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviouR
pretty much every single private site has a user limit, when reached the open sign ups would be closed.
now what will happen is, upon closing sign ups (leaving you no honest way in) the dupe accounts etc etc.. now have a value, limit reached so only way in is trade.
the minute any site goes public it is hammered by ppl creating as many accounts as they can, for the inevitable day when sign ups close and make theyre dupe accounts valuable as trade items.
leaving sign ups open will eventually mean you hit your limit, and are either forced to close sign ups or completely revamp your site.
most have a reasonable limit for a reason, what ever that may be.
why become a usefull member of a tracker when you can make a dozen accounts, and simply use them as currency.
sites have often tried open invites, its not like its a new thing.
they know the cost of doing it. thats why its still quite rare, and big news when it happens.
to me at least, its like anything else, you give it a go, accept you will have to tidy up a big mess, and see what happens.
personnaly i expect a lot of tools to sign up so it does not dissapoint me, when ppl who never had access to a private tracker get in, take part in forums, irc etc, jump on the torrents its a great thing to see.
but as for a perfect solution to bringing in good members, the person who comes up with that solution could sell the idea and retire :)
i do not think that as a tracker you can do much, good ppl make good users. bad ppl are bad users, its that simple.
what can you do to get around it ?
these days everyone has a seedbox, user level means little on many sites. some require more than a fat pipe however wich is handy.
but some ppl dont like to post on the trackers, doesnt mean they arent excellent users though.. so its not a simple thing.
you can ask other staff, but if your in a possition where you can get invites, anywhere because staffers speak highly of you,then you wont be very active. merely doing the required upkeep so you dont lose the account through inactivity.
interviews ? well theyre boring, and once one guy knows what answers to go with, the entire net will know. we can all lie, or copy and paste, besides not knowing the difference between 2 file types doesnt mean you wont be a good torrenter.
the best users are the ones that know the basics, stay active and dont have many sites meaning they will actually have a NEED of yours and use it, you know they will leach, seed, bring something to the community.
theyre also the ones on demonid/minninova/TPB, that cant get into private sites in the first place unfortunatly :)
it all basically boils back down to opening sign ups, and dealing with the fallout, because other methods might mean you catch bad users a little quicker, but they involve the same amount of work.
hanging about infront of IRC to hold an interview probably takes more time then checking an ip range to see who was signing up to multiple accounts in the first place.
^^NSK makes good points, especially one why its good to be invited by staff. I know someone i invited myself is going to be treated with a lot more trust than some total unknown from god knows where, that isnt to say that everyone isnt given theyre fair hearing, but im more likely to assume someones telling the truth when i invited them myself, know where they are from, know that they know screwing me on one site will cost them several etc etc.
course the dissadvantage of being invited by staff is messing up will no doubt make them feel all petty and vengefull and get you banned on lots of sites :)
staff do already do that, of course many choose to do it on sites that are invite only to start with.
To be honest there will never a perfect way to give out invites, there will always be bad people and good people, unless u psycially sit down with ever person u invite and moderate what they do on these trackers,u will never know the intentions of what people are planning to do.
Also i dont get this argument at all
This could be the case anytime not just in public giveaways, i mean are people under the illusion that in private giveaway this could not happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by stoi
Well it depends on the question.
How to you get 100% good members? you cant.
But you can do better than the average site, and set your goal to have a high percent of good members.
I am part of a tracker that has a small amount of members, all hand picked out of more private forums, community based of course, that way works but you cant expect anything crazy out of it, most members there are helpful in the forums, most upload torrents even with slow connections and everyone seeds for a shitload of time, people with a seedbox will usually download all new torrents for that day to help the seeding and donations are fair so theres no struggle despite the small amount of users. And how do we expand? The invite system, not automatic, if you reached a certain user class you make a request to staff, only if you already have someone you want to invite, a person you really know so you will never have an unused invite for more than a day or 2.
Of course we can't prevent them from bringing in a bad user, so if they do they won't be able to invite someone again and you ban the invitee. Usually the inviter will bring in someone he can trust.
Now if I were starting my own tracker, i get a lot of uploaders, put up at least 1000-1500 torrents before i open it to the public, then let people register via open signups with no limit.
Let is stick for a year, in the mean time find the really good and helpful users, after a year kick out all the non-helpful ones out which will leave you with no more than 1000-4000 users, then let staff and the very very best users invite other people occasionally.
Instead of looking for good members I would look for completely new in torrents members. Get the ones called noobs the ones that make the silly questions.
I would create a part in the tracker suitable for educating them in the rules of the tracker and the principles of p2p and filesharing
I know there are alot of security issues and risks but if some of them achieve to be part of the main community you'll have the members exactly like you want
How can they use a site as currency when they are signups the whole time ? Thats what i said in my above post , signups eradicate all these problems (Dupe Accounts , Trading etc) go away .Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinfish
The Thing Many (i didnt say all) SysOP's realize their sites are only popular only till they have a high Rarity across the internet . The Day they open signups forever , i can bet you almost all will just leave the site because as i said , almost all the people (including all the anti-trader forEVER !!!! types) have the level shit in their minds . So an open signup would make a site "worse" in the view of the Sysops and the users becos they all are subconsciously caring about the rarity . Sad but a True Situation around the Bittorrent World .
Its that why we see most of the new sites as open signups to increase the number of memebers and find good ppl while some Sysops do have the Rarity Crap in their back of the mind and hence they plan out accordingly .
Demonoid has to be one of the easiest sites to sign up on, and yet it doesn't lack in ANY sort of activity, so I don't think this rarity is as necessary as you might think, SaviouR
maybe for some sites, but remember i have been doing this for 5 years, and i have tried everything or at least most things in the spectrum.
We were open when we first started, but had to close because we got 11,000 peers and it crashed the server.
then we moved and went with XBTT, we then opened again, got to 40,000 closed for a bit. went down to 25,000 so opened again.
opened for about 3-4 months, we got 100,000 members (which was my goal) problem was, most were dupe accounts, when we closed it only took about 3-4 months to go from 100,000 members all the way down to 45,000 again.
I am not aying that staff banned 55,000 members, but most of those were dupe accounts, sign up, grab 4 torrents, hit and run, get into KL so they cant download, sign up again, 2 months later the old account would get pruned, so that is why when we closed, we went down so much in members.
I could not give a crap about rarity, apart from the things i do not agree about it lol
You've made good points in this thread and I can see the logic in what your saying but I'm not entirely convinced on this bit. You could open the sign-ups but don't increase the maximum number of users and I'm confident a lot of the "good users" the ones you want in your site would stay for the community, the content & it would still be a bit of an exclusive club for existing members with a trickle of fresh blood joining all the time. This should reduce the value of the site in the eye's of users / traders as they would have at the back of their minds that if I'm persistent enough I'll get an account here legitimately and won't have to trade / buyQuote:
Originally Posted by SaviouR
Just a thought, not saying it's gospel :)
Just throwing this out there for the hell of it, but if what if a site had several tiers to it?
Have a general part of the site where it is relatively easy to get into, but doesn't offer many of the amenities that the higher tiers have. Perhaps access to much of the forum, and maybe torrents that are older than x amount of days/weeks?
And from there you can have people who watch out for the "gems in the rough" and recruit accordingly.
It's almost like having a dummy sister site from which you recruit to the main site.
Might be a bad idea, but was just brainstorming.
I think it's a really good idea in theory but let's face it I don't think anybody could be arsed actually implementing it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mamacita
Think the closest your going to get to that is one site recruiting from another sites forum whthe pro's & con's of which have already been discussed
about my earlier post i didnt mean all sites , i spoke about the sites which just thrive on Rarity . and yes i agree , Demonoid system works fantastic .
It's just what I was talking about mamacita
Recruiting sounds good. Have a little talk with the soon to be members would be great. Interviews would help to get an idea what kind of a member they will be. Sure some people can flat out lie their way in but nothing is full proof. Maybe revising all new members after a set period of time to reevaluate the members helpfulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsk
It would be time consuming of course. Depends on what effort your want to put in.
Why not the staff interviews potential members by themselves.
well in all honesty mate, i did not ban you it must have been cirno, so if you want a 2nd chance (which you will not get because you cheated) you will have to speak to him.
You can say all the excuses in the book, but what you fail to grasp is this.
I have been there, and still am.
I used to have a PC with an 11gig hdd, i ran the tracker on that and seeded new XBOX games by myself and on a 25KBs connection.
Now I have the HDD space but my connection is still crap, from 10am to 10pm I have to limit my uploading to 10KBs or I get capped if I upload 1.3gig in that time, and my net slows to a crawl.
I also have to turn my PC off on a night as well.
I am the owner with DB access.
But guess what, I still do not cheat, it just means that instead of a week to get SP it takes me 2 weeks, and instead of 4 days to get a 1:1 on a 360 torrent, it takes me 2-3 weeks.
I have even downloaded these PSP packs, so over 100gig, but i have seeded them till SP and I am still seeding them and will do till i get over a 1 Actual ratio on them in my client, and probably for months after as well.
There is just no excuse for cheating, and sorry but if you got caught, good.
I have not read everyones answers so this may be a dupe but it is my answer...
To the question in subject line.
My feeling that there is no perfect way, but the best way is via an app process with profile links...Mandatory minimum of 4, imo. And then start looking into as much history as possible...Obviously, looking at account times, stats, usernames, and such...Tedious it is, but the closest thing to letting people in that you don't know as safely as possible. And should they dick you around whether it be trading or cheating you will have links to their other accounts!