I'm very appreciative of torrenters that rent seedboxes as it means I get what I want faster. They're still sharing after all. I'm quite happy to seed as much as I can for as long as I can with my mediocre upload speed in my role of sharing.
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I'm very appreciative of torrenters that rent seedboxes as it means I get what I want faster. They're still sharing after all. I'm quite happy to seed as much as I can for as long as I can with my mediocre upload speed in my role of sharing.
Seedboxes FTW ... they get my connection maxed out time and time again.
And the ones without seedboxes should learn what torrents to download and which not. If everybody knew what to download there wouldn't be such topics like this.
I guess many people are happy when they can download at full speed, but when they have to make a little effort and seed, they suddenly become FED UP.
I don't agree with that at all.If a person is a member at a site they should be able to download any file that they choose without resorting to games .
So many people spend too much time and effort downloading garbage that they have no genuine interest in just to maintain ratio,
And I am not talking about certain trackers like ScT that you go in with your eyes wide open .I am talking about the run of the mill ones that seem to be getting harder to seed at everyday.
Or maybe I'm just a socialist at heart and I believe that everyone should be more or less equal.( I readying for the inevitable "but I pay a lot for a speedbox so why should I carry on my back those people who are too poor or cheap to do the same". Only answer would be because no one is forcing you to have a seedbox and looking out for the interests of others is always the right thing to do )
You've been answered better than I could have answered you, Disme.
Just one thing to add, I didn't take you for a Rank hunter. Guess I was wrong.
Maybe you are right, but I've always adopted the principle that I don't download the things I know I cannot get a decent ratio on. Or I try to build some kind of buffer for a long time with my home connection and than I go ahead and download what I want and let it seed for as long as I can (which is basically ages).
I tend to be rather pragmatic with the seedbox issue ... I just got used to it during the many years I've been sharing files.
I do understand it can be frustrating for people that have never kniwn anything but free downloads, but I grew up in a time where people actually had to buy the things (music/games/appz/movies/etc) they wanted and that makes me humble when seeing what is available for free these days.
People with seedboxes may make it harder for others without seedboxes to download and seed, but I do think many people take the right to download way to 'for granted'.
It's just like in real life ... not everyone is able to build a huge house or drive a Ferrari (cliché, I know) ... in a nutshell ... life sometimes sucks, virtual life included.
I might have given you the wrong impression, but I did mean I like seedboxes because they max out my download-speed, not my upload-speed :).
It's upload that is required to obtain rank on a tracker, not download.
I'm on a limited connection, meaning I can download/upload a certain amount/per month). Over the years I have gotten bigger and bigger quota and as we speak I have 200GB/month (download and upload), but there was a time where I had 15 GB download and 1,5 upload.
That is one of the reasons I am not really concerned with the seedbox issue, I've always had to be carefull what files to get and which not.
I consider my biggest power the fact I can seed something for years if I want, and i have done and still do at present.
Ah, now I get it. Where I live there is no limits on how much you can upload/download. Just lousy speeds, lol (at least in my area).
i'm going to rent my 1st box next week. i heard that with a good box you can even send 10TB in one single month. it's a lot. off course it makes it harder for other users, but i spend 30€ and i dont have to worry about ratio for years! it's a great deal, much better than donate to sites to not be banned because my ratio is too low. seedbox is great deal if u know how use it.
but u see a good reason to donate to a site instead buy SB and live from it? in the eyes of the user it is a much better deal. it cant be compared. or u prefer sites that they only give u invites if u give them money? and then they come brag about how private they are and exclusive. it's all liars. they do it for the money. i prefer to give my money to a company that rents me a server. it's a matter of choice.
hmm who said anything about invites, or gigs for $$. (i am not getting into P2L or P4I in this thread)
My point was, if everyone got a seedbox, and never donated to another site ever again, there would be no sites for you to use your precious seedboxes on, and all that money you spent on a seedbox, would be wasted, as if the sites go, then your precious buffer goes with it, and in turn no sites to use your seedbox on.
It really boils down to how balanced a tracker is, what precautions (e.g. a proper bonus system) the admins have implemented to prevent the negative side effects of seedboxes from becoming overwhelming, and hurting the site and community as a consequence. Or to put it differently: You should never be forced to download stuff you don't want just to keep a good / acceptable ratio. If that is the case, something is wrong with the design / balance of the tracker.
Or just get rid of this whole ratio system altogether, which actually has has been the trend for a lot of the newer trackers recently.
Actually you all kinda missed what hombre meant to say.He didn't say he won't donate to a tracker.He leaves open the option of donating to keep the site alive but what he refuses is extortion and bribery i.e he'd rather eat dirt than pay so as to maintain his account on a tracker because he'd be banned if he doesn't.
He prefers working himself out of a mess just like everyone else only that he is choosing to do it with a little help from OVH.Hombre is e-honest and the fact that he is talking about pushing 10TB in 30 days with €30 only(impossible if you ask me)that makes hombre e-hardworking :yes: :yes:
People are never happy.
At 1st speeds were low and took forever to get a pack.
Then came fast conections and SB. Everyone was happy for awhile.
Npw they bitch because some overseed. Who cares what they seed. Just keep the torrent alive for a few days longer.
Someone mentioned about spending on SB rather then hlping out trackers:
Thats a good point, but why download and not go buy it at the store?
If you have bad conections then you should be in p2p.
My sb is 20euros. If you cant afford it then get another hobby
I almost feel sorry for him, after all seeding with a seedbox is so strenous and hard isnt it. (sarcasm btw)
Long term seeding is not really encouraged by a ratio system, because it takes too much time, and 'success' is not even guaranteed (maybe nobody is interested in the stuff you seed). A bonus system, in addition to a ratio system or not (there are non-ratio sites that have a bonus system) is the much better way to encourage users to keep torrents alive over a long period of time.
i do agree that a bonus system is the best way to encourage long term seeding but once again, ratio system is still a safeguard. i often noticed the more a tracker is hard to seed on, the more its members tends to seed torrents longer (especially those with slow connections). it works like a charm for trackers like KG, what.cd or waffles anyway.
Told you.:whistling
Sorry stopped paying attention after that part( not really it's like artistic license like )and just want to add that's really e-nnoying.
Can you back that up? Whatcd doesn't have a bonus system, but it's got seeders. Same with bitmetv, and ScT, and TT. I think you just like bonus systems and are trying to justify them by making absurd statements.
It might be ok when it's balanced and rewards small amounts of upload while files are generally large (KG) or if it's a 0day tracker where the extra upload can be made up from the uploaders seedboxes. However I don't think your statement has very much truth in it.
not to mention that a bonus system would be totally useless without a ratio system (except maybe for karma points whores).
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What.cd got seeders because it strongly encourages uploading of your own stuff. Without your own uploads, it's very difficult to maintain a good ratio there, unless you have a seedbox and leech tons of stuff you don't really want / need (like many users do there). What.cd therefore is not exactly the best example you could have brought up in this respect.
And it's no 'proof' for the effectiveness of the ratio system either - people who keep seeding stuff for months, or years even, likely would do so without a ratio system also (particularly on specialised trackers like TT, with a lot of 'enthusiasts' willing to share).
Bonus systems, which not only reward upload speed (-> seedbox users), but seeding time, are to the benefit of all users. It's not about what I 'like' or not, I can handle bonus-free ratio trackers just fine, thank you. It's about what is logically to the benefit of all, and you have yet to provide a valid argument why a bonus system is not beneficial.
Sorry, but that is nonsense. You can reward users with invites, for example, and other benefits. There are non-ratio sites that do exactly that.
Well you didn't back up your post. All you did was take apart my examples with your assumptions yet offering no concrete reasons, proofs, or examples. I can only lol at what you're saying.
BTW I make tons more upload at seeding snatched torrents on what than by uploading my own. I upload purely for the sake of sharing, it's ridiculous to upload purely for ratio. Just keep a bunch of torrents you snatched seeding. Assuming they aren't too niche you WILL get upload because what.cd gets tons of traffic.
What may have a fairly long retention, but on closer look one will see that there are tons of 1 seeder-torrents(the original uploader). And only a sb owner (with a good ratio) will want to dl such torrent. So, long retention by itself is of little use, if members fear to download old files.
This is the reason I like ptp bonus system; it take into account the number of files you seed and factored in the size of the files and add an extra point for file below 5 seeders. This encorage people downloading underseeded torrents.
I don't need sb to get good ratio in tracker with bonus system, and bonus system is not relevent to people with sb.
Nah they help the overall speed of the sites.
Who wants to wait days/hours for a download,trackers lose members that away as the members can go to public no ratio trackers and get the files in that amount of time.
I just get fed up with the whole epenor thing>"I seeded @38MB/s see screenshots in my profile" yadda yadda yadda
Well who gives a flying **** unless you uploaded it originally 20 seconds after pre :P
Guys, a bonus system is very usefull, but it can also be abused, by users limiting their upload speed. Again that's where the community aspect (sharing is caring) kick in.
why do people seed at BMTV, What, etc. for a longer time? Simple, because they're afraid of their ratio. Honestly, Im glad I used a seedbox there. But my buffer at BMTV is allmost all used out.
Imho a ratio system is bad anyway.
Why? Because there is always someone left over.
Let's simplify the whole torrent thing, just 1 seeder and 1 leecher.
You see, the leecher will download but will not able to seed it back.
Imagine the whole now on a today's tracker.
The one with faster upload speed will get more requests of course,
while the one with slower will get lesser
and the last in the chain will never get one anyway.
I don't blame the seedboxes, they keep the speed on valuable level(at least for the new torrents),
more the ratio system itself. There should be another system to evaluate a user.
Upload shouldn't be the only thing but a part of it.
There's no point in blaming seedbox users , Internet speeds will get faster , people in Japan/Korea have access to 100 meg connections , how would that be diff from a seedbox
you mean What.cd got stuff because it strongly encourages uploading.
uploads have nothing to do with seeding time and most of the time, uploaders are not even part of the last seeders.
trust me, after uploading their own torrents, the most used way by what.cd members to maintain a positive ratio is to keep torrents seeding 'forever' (and it works).
lol, do you seriously think that the major part of the members of a tracker would be willing to seed torrents for a long period only to get invites and useless prices like custom titles or VIP status for x months ?
My upload speed ranges from 256kbps to 512kbps and I currently have a ratio of 3.281 on a tracker.
The trick is to grab FL torrents or download form Usenet and 'help' seed.
So, basically, we want to:
- maximize download speeds -> seedboxes FTW!
- maximize retention -> everybody seeed!
- minimize the frustration of people who cannot grab what they want -> the hell with the seedboxes? No!
There must be found other ways to achieve this third goal. It is quite obvious that the global ratio system is a major obstacle for it, so let's get rid of it. But how do we motivate the people in order to achieve goals 1 and 2 then?
One way is to reintroduce the ratio system, but for each torrent this time. The whole idea of sharing is to give back at least as much as you got, anyway. But imposing 1:1 ratio for each torrent would make things a lot worse than now. So, two separated concepts must be introduced: real ratio and recorded ratio. The real ratio would be the one we know, download / upload, while recorded ratio = real ratio + seed time bonus, where seed time bonus would be something like 0.05/h.
People who continue seeding after their real ratio is 1 should receive bonuses which can be used for things like: making requests and reseed requests, reduce the seed time required on other torrents that they don't have the possibility to seed(this must be made quite impractical in terms of bonus needed for a torrent to be leeched freely, as we must not forget goal number 2), receive invites, custom titles, access to special areas in the forums etc.
Advantages:
- we generally achieve goal number 3 because noone should fear to download what they want anymore, as in the worst case scenario they'll just have to seed the torrent for 200 hours and that's all
- everyone will be interested to upload as much as possible, so they can remove the torrent sooner or get some bonus to spend on different things. (and yes, i do think that if it would be the only way to get invites at FTN for example, there would be a lot of guys there seeding like crazy in order to get their precious e-penis enlargement tool)
Of course, donating should be rewarded with some gigs of free download, so people don't forget about this important thing and the guys that want usenet like service can be pleased.
My biggest beef with seedbox users are RSS downloaders. They rarely, if ever, use what they download aside from ratio buffer, garbage quality is further expanded without anyone reporting bad uploads, and it's just pointless. The point of downloading for me has always been to get what you want. Never to build a ratio, but because it's something you want. They rarely seed very long, a week at best. The what.cd upload contests were a fine example where you'd literally see 50 seedbox users grab this stuff and a week or so later there's under a dozen seeds left. Not to mention downloading something with 35+ snatches only to find out it was a piss weak rip. RSS blows, I hate it, I'll never use it.
People moaning about bad upload speeds can still have a solid buffer on sites. I had well over 100gb buffer on what.cd with my home ADSL because I uploaded & kept torrents alive. i got over 2TB up on bmtv over 2 years simply from seeding on a 1mbps upload connection 24/7, I never stopped unless the torrent died or got too crowded.
I use a seedbox now because I can't afford to stay on a high quota, and torrent has far more overhead than FTP. I leech what I want to my box then FTP it home. I'm moving to a new ISP next month that count uploads, and that rules out going back to seeding from home. But atleast then I'll have 200GB for the same price I currently pay for a lousy 40GB so I can now leech my seedbox even more.
For me it's not about ratio building, it never has been. It's always been a way to download what I want before it gets deleted so I can bring it home down the road.
So I'm not sick of seedboxes. I'm sick of how a lot of people (mis)use them.
I seconded thatQuote:
So I'm not sick of seedboxes. I'm sick of how a lot of people (mis)use them.
good idea but wouldnt this mean that every tracker should be like fsc but unfortunately,as far as I know., even fsc doesnt have that much fun to offer.
not trying to be negtive here but a few years from now on, we might not be using torrent any more. who knows. so for the moment I'd rather face the reality that sb is dominating the private tracker world so I'd either go with the flow or find 'elsewhere peaceful'.