Are some people just defective?

Also, don't believe too strongly that most of the old members are gone. I get the feeling they're still here but under different aliases/IP addresses.

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Originally Posted by stoi

Staff of trackers are treat like crap, we are the enemy, if we say white, the staff of here say black (now i can understand this, but their point blank refusal to even accept an olive branch or even listen sometimes gets on my wick,

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I know where that is coming form but please don't generalize about the staff here.

And as for the idea of old members creating new identities , what would be the point?
I think the truth has already been said that rereading the same stuff over and over becomes pretty tedious after a while and so they drifted away.Perfectly understandable.
Seems some still lurk , probably curious to see if any of their old friends are still around but that's about the extent of their involvement here.

well its the upper staff obviously, you have not got a lot of say at all, we seen that with detale who tried and failed miserably. (and i do mean that in a good way to you mods, if it sounded bad it was not meant to be)

but on the flip side, if 1 tracker staff is a bastard, the whole tracker gets bad rep off the OP that is complaining on here, and nothing is done about that...

Noted .
I've posted on many a thread that that kind of talk shouldn't be taken seriously ( especially by people who create accounts specifically to do that sort of thing ) but I'll try to do better in the future .

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Most people wind up here from a search engine, therefore you have to consider the keywords they typed in to wind up here. Or, if they wound up here from a post on some other site they frequent, you have to take into consideration the context of that forum or post. And you can generally assume those keywords/contexts summarize the mentality of people who wind up here.

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This is a very good point. This is how I showed up here a year and a half ago, and if I hadn't been turned onto the right path by some members here I probably would've started trading or begging.

Quote:

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2: Staff of trackers are treat like crap, we are the enemy, if we say white, the staff of here say black (now i can understand this, but their point blank refusal to even accept an olive branch or even listen sometimes gets on my wick), I would even go as far to say that traders are respcted more, but meh, will shut up there are skizo will have a go at me again for going on and on about the same thing.

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This is never going to change. The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever. The staff here will always be bitter towards the hatred displayed towards FST on various other torrent forums and torrent trackers, and tracker staff will always be bitter about what goes on at FST.

Really, there are a few types of members here. There are a few "old guard" type folks that already have the trackers they need and treat this as a place for discussion or for giving out their unneeded invites. There are some new folks that also seem to get involved right off the bat, but I'd question some of their motives as many of them no doubt believe that post count = more invites for them. Then there are the noobs that show up here, make a few posts, and start begging for stuff on day 30. There's the trader scum that this place is judged by, and there are the tracker staff here to provide support and catch the traders. There are, of course, average members that give away invites and hope to receive them in return while participating in the site in general, but these seem to be few and far between. This all leads to a rather dysfunctional site dynamic and doesn't really promote quality posting.

Which leads me to why I still read these forums (or the main reason). I view many threads created here as a source of entertainment, as threads (like those idiotic ones about TTC last week) are a spectacle that are chuckled about both here and elsewhere.

Thinking about it a bit more as well, there are other reasons.

There just is not the quantity of filesharing programs any more.

K-lite is dead
Emule-Edonkey may as well be
Win-MX is dead (or last i heard it was)
Users own FTPs are dead, you dont get many FTPs with 30KBs upload anymore lol if you want an FTP its on a server and you have to pay for it, and the ones that have them they are not going to advertise on here.
IRC as a filesharing medium is not as big anymore (it probably is but you dont here about it so much these days).

All that is left is.

Bittorrent
Rapidshare
Newsgroups.

Now, most of the top list, never had forums, or things to discuss the releases etc, so members used to do that here. 2 of the bottom list, Bittorrent and Rapidshare, have their own forums/comments, so members can discuss things there instead of here. and with newsgroups, there are plenty other search engines to use than here (not that they dont do a good job here, but its in the forum, if they had a seperate search index it may be better).

Yes, you can discuss things here that you cant discuss on the above, but not a lot, and the same things being discussed over and over again gets boring.

Yes, the staff say that its not just about bittorrent, ok its not, but if a noob goes into the lounge, they dont even chew them up, they swallow them whole, i have been here since 2003 and have over 3,000 posts, and i wont even go into the lounge lol

There just is not a lot to talk about on here anymore, whereas before when it was K-lite (like i mentioned in a previous post) we used to tell members what we were ripping, and when it would be done, and then give them the link and they used to be the first to grab it (just like uploading torrents i suppose it was addictive, but now that is discussed on torrent forums and not here) so it felt a lot more involved than it does now, all they really have on here now is NZBs which i have grabbed i think 3 from here in 6 years.

People move on, sites move on, you have to go with the times, and FST`s way of doing that, to get members into the forum, was to have the bittorrent section with the giveaways and trades, if they never had that, i very much doubt many would join, and even less would stay.

To me the personality has been stripped from this place, some members still think this is the place to be, and this is better than tracker forums, but sorry i just cant see that at all, its just not like it used to be to me, and if anything, the bittorrent giveaways and trades has made this a worse place, because most of the helpful members have left (either because of it, or for their own reasons) and they have replaced them with members that just want everything now, and cant be arsed to work for it (which is another reason old members may have left). (which does not make for a good lasting community i am afraid).

anyway enough of my rambling, going to bed now as its 05:30am.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

This is never going to change. The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever. The staff here will always be bitter towards the hatred displayed towards FST on various other torrent forums and torrent trackers, and tracker staff will always be bitter about what goes on at FST.

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I highly doubt that FST is to blame people's lackings because ( however much you wish it)morality isn't something effected by creating rules.
By your line of reasoning then the trackers themselves would be mostly to blame for trading since they allow people invites and the free will to do with them what they want.

As for "the staff " being bitter ,not to my knowledge .
I do harbor a bit of resentment though over the fact how some people (such as apparently yourself) seem to have the ability know the hearts and minds ( :dabs: reduced to quoting Lydon Johnson) of others while I do not.

View FST as Gommorah if you wish but that's far from the truth and I think that ( all acknowledgments to current fashion aside ) we both know that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

Really, there are a few types of members here.

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I think that there are as many types of members here as there are people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

The staff here allow blatant disregard of core tracker rules to take place. What confuses me about the staff here is that they're willing to remove some posts (often dealing with secret trackers) from the regular BT talk, but they're unwilling to put a stop to the trading which has blemished this community's image forever.

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Which part of the staff are you talking about? Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

Deleting selected posts has simply something to do with the rules (spam for instance is very usual is so called secret tracker discussions). ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zip

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

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Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

I think they stopped that.

but as to zips post, T.S.O.L was WTAW for ages before he even got mod on here, he pmed me with that tidbit of info quite a while ago, now though he is staff here, and everyone knows it was him (not by me though, this is the first time i have told anyone).

So no its not their fault as they were probably not even members when they sprung up, and if they do fight it, they get told they are siding with us and make a choice. So they cant do anything about it anyway, but they are not all as innocent as they seem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zip

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

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Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

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spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoi

I think they stopped that

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Fair enough I didn't know that.

p.s. I wasn't trying to bitch about you guys I actually like the BT mods on a personal level.

I'm defective. :(

shouldn't this thread be in the lounge section ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zip

Let's take BT mods as an example. It's not their fault the wtaw thread or the trading section exist.

They only do their job which is moderating and making sure the rules are followed.

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Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

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That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00bz0r

spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:

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I may be ignorant, but not as much as you are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sear

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

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That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by n00bz0r

spare him.. for the philosophy of 'ignorance is bliss' has a true believer :happy:

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I may be ignorant, but not as much as you are.

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Don't flatter yourself :dry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sear

Last time I checked (which was a while ago) they also acted as middle men which is facilitating trading. Is it not?

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That simply used to be a part of their job, or one of their tasks.

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How does that make it ok or not supporting trading? I can't really be arsed arguing about it as it doesn't exist any more but saying it's simply part of the job is a cop out.

I actually have a bit more faith in this site, as I've noticed that there have been a few recent members who (from what I can tell) are outstanding! :)

I've stumbled upon quite good number of interesting reads by some kat called settindice(still looking for his twitter:P) and if anything they've just gone to reinforce my view that fst somehow appears to be an easier target for people to pick on.

If guys are being honest when pulling these guilt by association quick ones,then this jpeg among other things is supposed to be one hell of an oxymoron.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1521/photovcd.jpg
but apparently it isn't and the interesting part is that as much as he is moding this invite trading forum,its generally accepted that his character shall always transcend his work and that he is basically just doing his job.As to why the same can't be generally assumed here i really don't know,maybe good godfathers would do :P.

I feel like going hard on TL but I won't coz am not sure of the facts yet but i think it would make me wet if the jibberish on TL turns out to be who i think it is coz apparently they came up with this policy of banning mods from sites that have anything to do with invite trading regardless of their positions on the issue.They did a big launch on fst a while back,fireworks and what nots,somebody from TL got banned then somebody from fst got banned from TL,what a way to run a tracker,heh?
/me zips coz from here onwards it would be just shit talk.

Ok I am not at liberty to say anything about that guy ^^

but i can assure you there is a lot more to it than him running an invite site. even though that does not help.

If that is the site I think it is, then I dont think they allow trading.

Unless I misunderstood your comment...

Is it just me or is anyone else bothered by the fact that people here seem to have lost the ability to speak plainly?

I mean ( probably the first and last time Meat Loaf will ever be quoted on this forum) "you whisper when I want you to shout"
Or maybe it's just all over my head? If is is then that would hardly be surprising.


IdolEyes hates secrecy ( even if there is sometimes a need for it).IdolEyes would have made a very bad mod spy.

As for someone from FST being banned from TL no longer true .And the person from TL that was banned could come back anytime that he wants but he chooses not to for various reasons noneof which being hard feelings

If that reply was for me?

then

1: He is not a member of BCG, what he done/has done/is doing was on another tracker

2: I dont like it when someone that does not know the whole story, bashes a tracker for banning a member, and then sticks up for the member in question (which is what i garnered from the post by sez) but i may have misread his intentions.

3: what the person in that pic is accused of is a global ban offence.

4: If i told you what he had done, on here or anywhere else for that matter, i would have abused the trust other staff on other sites have for me, so that is why no info will come from my lips, if others want to have a say, then so be it.

It wasn't really directed at anyone.Just a general drop a line in the pond so who bits.
Btw I don't want or expect anyone to betray anything .Ever .Even if there seems a good reason for it.Two wrongs and all the bullshit.I just said I don't like secrecy that's all .

Also btw I don't intentional ever say anything to bother you. Unfortunately sometimes it just happens .

Also also btw this has nothing to do with you being associated with anything .You could kick me off BC tomorrow and I would still have the same high opinion of you.
(Go ahead and go it if you like and then we can prove the point)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

A lot of the "old timers" around here have gotten skeptical about people who have "made mistakes" in the past and the ability of those people to start acting like "good" members of the community.

In other threads, I have tried to defend these people and the possibility of redemption (at least in terms of this community). I am still not ready to abandon people who have made mistakes, I probably never will. If I can help someone be a better member of the community, then I will certainly do my best. All I need is some shred of proof that they are truly making an effort. I don't even expect great results- if my efforts were to help, say, 1 in 5 people I think it would be worth the effort. Maybe I am a nOOb, an idealist, or maybe just a fool...:)

Anyway, I would not be here if I did not believe I could ultimately do some good. I like this community, its people and its rewards. Other than an insatiable desire for thought-provoking conversation and good friends, my needs have been met. Seriously- I grab True Blood every Sunday. It was available on 3 of my trackers at the same time! About an hour later, the HD version was available. Most other media is distributed in the same manner.

There seems to be an element in every group, community, city, country, etc., however, that cannot, to save their lives, just be an honest, respectable member of that group. Sometimes I understand why the cynics are the way they are.:angry:

So what is it with these people who have been banned from every tracker that they have ever been on, who get involved in trading, cannot follow a single rule of a site or show simple respect/appreciation to someone who helped them? Is there some kind of social defect? Do they not know how to be part of a community? I might be able to understand if we were sharing finite, tangible resources, but what we have here is infinitely reproducible. There will never be a shortage of any kind!

And really...of all the communities one could join, the requirements here are very, very minimal...seed back what you take...don't trade...don't cheat the tracker (how stupid is that one?)...don't spam or flame...respect the mods. There really isn't that much more. Those are the basics- how about the "advanced" stuff? make some posts that don't involve requests...help your fellow members with their questions...read the news section and make some comments...don't lie or deceive someone who is trying to help you!!!

Like I said, I am not ready to give up. Actually, my post have resulted in some very nice PM's. Ultimately, that type of response has made my efforts worthwhile. And I will never know if I have helped new members be more responsible from the start.

I would just like to know what is at the core of the people who just don't understand community. This is the ultimate in a "giving" group- the rewards outweigh the costs exponentially. Someone who is "connected" in this community literally has access to all forms of digital media, past, present, and future. Is it asking so much for these people to follow the minuscule rules of conduct around here?

And, please, don't get me wrong- I do not feel like Atlas. I have only been here a few months and I know that I will never do as much for this community as some of the "old timers" have. This is a great community and it would not be nearly as good without those members. Mostly, I am just looking for some insight that people have gained over the years as they have seen nOObs, scammers, liars, cheats, etc. and hundreds, if not thousands, of good members come and go.

End of (mild) rant. :frusty: :D

MBM

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I read about 4 lines of that and felt like vomiting at the repetitive use of the word "community" in reference to FST. I read no further. :dabs:

hmm why the animosity (or thats what i am picking up, maybe to harsh a word though, but is is 5am here so cant think of another term for it) i was just trying to explain my post from before.

and why would i ban you?, yes you donate but thats not the reason i wont ban you, i have no reason to at all, apart from you mod here, but when Detale was getting global banned i actually made him an account, so i dont work the same way as some other trackers do.

I do wish you used our community more though, great tracker stats, but comments and forum posts are non existent lol

I am just confused on where your last 2 sentences spanned from.

I'm trying to be nice .:(
And I'm genuinely embarrassed that I don't participate at BCG .
Really it's caused by a combination of not having anything topic related to say that I haven't already said someplace before and also finding it intimidating to start at the bottom without knowing anyone again.

I mean I kind of know you and look at mess I've made of it here .
Imagine what would happen if I was loosed upon a bunch of strangers.
Carnage at the very least.

Btw there are only 3 sites that I give money to anymore and it's totally based on how I feel about their administration. I couldn't care less if they had fish instead of files .

yes i know you were trying to be nice, i just could not get my head around how you were bothering me (like i said, animosity was probably the wrong word to use), or egging me on to ban you.

it just did not make any sense to me lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoi

I think they stopped that.

but as to zips post, T.S.O.L was WTAW for ages before he even got mod on here, he pmed me with that tidbit of info quite a while ago, now though he is staff here, and everyone knows it was him (not by me though, this is the first time i have told anyone).

So no its not their fault as they were probably not even members when they sprung up, and if they do fight it, they get told they are siding with us and make a choice. So they cant do anything about it anyway, but they are not all as innocent as they seem.

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Me innocent? Come on now:rolleyes:. But.. without making excuses, a certain staff member at one of the friendliest trackers around used to manage that thread as well. Whatever negative stigma the thread carries has not rubbed off on him; he's a great guy and that speaks loudest. I don't find anyone in particular judges me based on that anymore. And it's still just part of the job, every once in a while.

(Just spent an hour catching up on this thread/getting distracted by other things. Seems the topic has drifted but the first couple pages were very interesting and a great read, something rarer for me these days. Since it's off topic I won't change it back but I saw your post and felt I could elaborate a little on it)

I really get tired of seeing this moral indignation from people happily engaging in criminal activity every day. Let me get this straight: You're fine with the theft and distribution of copyrighted material, but the thought of someone breaking the tracker rules disgusts you? You're frustrated because you're a hypocrite, so the world will never make sense to you.

If you follow the rules because you like the tracker and enjoy the community, fine. If you do it out of ethical motivation, you're a fool. And if you think anyone should do the same, you're delusional.

Kind of a hypocrite yourself as you do the same thing , a member of trackers, RS.

Being invited to a site and asked to follow that sites rules is respecting the site, staff and the person who invited you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orfik

I really get tired of seeing this moral indignation from people happily engaging in criminal activity every day. Let me get this straight: You're fine with the theft and distribution of copyrighted material, but the thought of someone breaking the tracker rules disgusts you? You're frustrated because you're a hypocrite, so the world will never make sense to you.

If you follow the rules because you like the tracker and enjoy the community, fine. If you do it out of ethical motivation, you're a fool. And if you think anyone should do the same, you're delusional.

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So on the flip side of that argument then.

because you break the law by pirating, you think that murder and rape are fine, its only a law after all, and as you break 1 you may as well break the lot, right?

and us tracker owners have nothing to do with creating music, games, movies etc, but i am sure if we did, we would give the stuff we done away. and this is about someone breaking the rules on things we have created, its not like if you dont pay you cant download, its breaking very simple rules, and just just etiquet.

so no i/we am/are not a hypocrite.

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.

Btw ethics and Law are two entirely different things. Some Laws are unethical and some ethics are unlawful.
To say that you are ethical simply by choosing to obey every Law the makes you either delusional or just fool.

This with socially acceptance/moral/ethics and laws reminds me of two swedish artists in an interview about illegal filesharing. They compared illegal filesharing to bestialty by saying something like "bestiality,fucking with animals, is legal but not socially accepted. Illegal filesharing is illegal but socially accepted".
It was banned from TV,lol:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.

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:lol: Good point.

Everyone has broke a law or two even if they did not mean to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charliebitme

This with socially acceptance/moral/ethics and laws reminds me of two swedish artists in an interview about illegal filesharing. They compared illegal filesharing to bestialty by saying something like "bestiality,fucking with animals, is legal but not socially accepted. Illegal filesharing is illegal but socially accepted".
It was banned from TV,lol:D

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Btw
bestiality is disgusting to me. Could not compare that to downloading TV shows, movies , things that are legal to film in the 1st place. My 2 cents at least.

And yes some people are defective. Every watch the news? :P

Private trackers are just a means of getting warez fast and early while ensuring quality. The rules are there to make sure this system works. If you find a rule that do nothing to help keep the system running clean then yes it's probably unnecessary and go ahead and break it. But as long as they are rules you might get caught, piss off someone, and get booted. Or maybe they'll realize it's a useless rule. But from what I've seen rules for the most part make sense (keep ratio, etc..) are are there solely to keep the system in place running smoothly.

Most rules are not hypocritical, but practical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

You don't seem to understand that the fundamental difference is that you signed on the dotted line with a tracker and gave your word saying that you will will not do such and such.
With copyright infringement I don't ever remember making such a promise.

Btw ethics and Law are two entirely different things. Some Laws are unethical and some ethics are unlawful.
To say that you are ethical simply by choosing to obey every Law the makes you either delusional or just fool.

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I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

Please don't say such stupid things. Depending on what country you live in, you may have made such a promise. Take me: As a citizen of the US, I am explicitly bound by certain federal, state and international laws. There's no dotted line to sign -- you're born into these contracts. Have you ever purchased copyrighted material? Did you read the agreement printed on the packaging? There's your "promise" again, and you agree to it by paying.

Ah..I'm a hypocrite? How is that? I'm aware of the laws affecting what I do, and I break them. And then I can't help but laugh when the people breaking them with me fall into the same ridiculous pattern as the RIAA and MPAA. Your rules don't mean anything. Enjoy your free music, software, books, games and movies, you moral crusaders.

When you buy something online you click or type to make the purchase. Basically that is your digital signature.
Your right on the fact that ethics and law are not the same thing. far from. What is your point about a contract with a tracker? You sign up and follow the rules or get the boot. What is your point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orfik

I didn't sign anything when I joined any tracker. Do you think a click-box is equivalent to a signature? Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by orfik

Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

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I thought the whole point of your post was to do with ethics .The fact that they " can't hold you to it" has remarkably little to do with those .

Also you seem to be presuming that I'm not of the opinion that what we do is stealing .I'm well aware of that fact but if I thought for a minute that what I was doing was really harming anyone I would stop.

See that another instance of the difference between ethics and Laws.
Ethics allow choice Laws do not.

I don't know why you seem unable to wrap your head around the difference between the two?

Btw I live in Canada where at the present it still isn't against the Law to fileshare so everything you are saying is moot anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orfik

Even if I had signed anything, there isn't a contract that a torrent tracker could hold me to, especially considering most torrent trackers try to stay as far away from laws as they can.

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I thought the whole point of your post was to do with ethics .The fact that they " can't hold you to it" has remarkably little to do with those .

Also you seem to be presuming that I'm not of the opinion that what we do is stealing .I'm well aware of that fact but if I thought for a minute that what I was doing was really harming anyone I would stop.

See that another instance of the difference between ethics and Laws.
Ethics allow choice Laws do not.

I don't know why you seem unable to wrap your head around the difference between the two?

Btw I live in Canada where at the present it still isn't against the Law to fileshare so everything you are saying is moot anyway.

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It does concern ethics. So, filesharing is legal in Canada. Well, guess what, so is cheating bittorrent trackers, trading accounts, and selling accounts. So it becomes an ethical decision, no? Then tell me why you feel someone should obey the agreement they make with a tracker, and not the agreement they make with the software and games manufacturers or the MPAA and RIAA?

If your answer is something ignorant like "because you'll get booted if you don't", then why make threads whining about it? Justice will be served.