but you can get a fine and prison sentance for skiving
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but you can get a fine and prison sentance for skiving
No, the way I see it he told me to do something, no one tells me to do anything, they may ask me but never ever tell me to do something, you're right, maybe force is the wrong word...........but he also told me that he and his church buddies prayed for me :angry: That is taking the pissQuote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 12:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@6 October 2003 - 17:30
Jonno, you prove my point.
Pronouncements are one thing, "force" is another. ;)
Why don't more of you visit the "World Events" section?
This would make for an excellent and far-ranging long-term thread. :)
Looks like I'm about to flame
Jonno[/b][/quote]
I don't think such could be construed as them "prevailing" against your wishes, Jonno.
If someone offers a prayer for "all the people of the world", I think you would be included-as a matter of fact, you can be certain that occurs a few billion times a day-for you to insist that they exclude you by name from their prayer would, I fear, be an overwhelming imposition. :)
Relax, Jonno-if we all assert our affection for you, would you sort the assertions?
I would hope not.
I have no problem with people believing differently than I do. What I do have a problem with, and the point I think Jonno is trying to make is, that I don't like someone trying to coerce me into believing what they do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and no one has the right to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for what they believe. It is one thing to say "this is what I believe" it is entirely another to say "this is what I believe and you are wrong if you don't believe the same thing, and now I'm going to try to bully you into believing it too."Quote:
Originally posted by noname12@6 October 2003 - 13:04
Oh get over it, so some one told you about there religion and prayed for you OH JESUS he should be executed (spelling?), I personally believe every one has the right to preach there beliefs so long as it does not border on hatred and violence, let them stand in hyde parks speakers corner and scream they love christ, let them stand on the pulpit and show alliegance to the caliphate, let them shake there heads infront of the wailing wall and blow there horns, who cares, no one is forcing you to do anything, there not pinning you down and making you believe, just saying what they believe and out of care try to make you believe the same.
Forcing.... you dont know what forcing is... go to places like Saudi Arabia where they FORCE people to be of Sunnite or Wahabite belief, anything else you'll get shot, not being forced by some one praying for you :lol: :lol:
I believe you've winnowed it down, NikkiD. :)Quote:
Originally posted by NikkiD@6 October 2003 - 13:14
It is one thing to say "this is what I believe" it is entirely another to say "this is what I believe and you are wrong if you don't believe the same thing, and now I'm going to try to bully you into believing it too."
This is what we should strive to avoid.
That is not to say we should shy away from trying to convince others of the error of their ways. :D
I believe you've winnowed it down, NikkiD. :)Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+6 October 2003 - 18:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 6 October 2003 - 18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NikkiD@6 October 2003 - 13:14
It is one thing to say "this is what I believe" it is entirely another to say "this is what I believe and you are wrong if you don't believe the same thing, and now I'm going to try to bully you into believing it too."
This is what we should strive to avoid.
That is not to say we should shy away from trying to convince others of the error of their ways. :D [/b][/quote]
Yep pretty much what j2k4 said, no one is forcing you or jonno to do anything, to them you are wrong and they are right, just as to you they are wrong and you are right :P... aslong as every one says it in a nice way and with out a gun to each others head, theres no forcing or problems involved :lol:
j2 (forgive me being forward)
However if I believe something, then by definition I must think it is correct.
If you believe something different then, again be definition, I must think you are wrong.
We are surely allowed to disagree wtih one and other, that does not mean I am trying to coerce you into accepting my position is the correct one.
Oh and if you disagree with this you are quite obviously wrong.
Amen! :P [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by titey+6 October 2003 - 17:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (titey @ 6 October 2003 - 17:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lilmiss@6 October 2003 - 11:23
you would learn something.....never to go again. :D
[QUOTE]
I thought that you stayed in the bible belt Titey. Oh no, I forgot you stay in a Condo. B)
Obviously you disagree that I am agreeing with you, or you me.Quote:
Originally posted by JPaul@6 October 2003 - 13:33
j2 (forgive me being forward)
However if I believe something, then by definition I must think it is correct.
If you believe something different then, again be definition, I must think you are wrong.
We are surely allowed to disagree wtih one and other, that does not mean I am trying to coerce you into ccepting my position is the correct one.
Oh and if you disagree with this you are quite obviously wrong.
Just as obviously, I am right, and in those instances we agree, I must still insist I am "righter" than you.
Sorry, JPaul, but that's just the way it is.
Feel free to disagree. ;)
BTW-I do not feel you are being forward-just the opposite. :D
That is exactly what I am saying, I have beliefs but none of you know what they are cos I done preach it to you.Quote:
Originally posted by NikkiD@6 October 2003 - 18:14
I don't like someone trying to coerce me into believing what they do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and no one has the right to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for what they believe
I don't think anyone's beliefs are wrong, but they seem to think mine are, so who is IN the wrong??
As for Forcing, I said it was the wrong word already!
As for me calming down.......not yet, I ain't done yet.
I am having my say, I keep quiet about this stuff most of the time but I am having my say which is my right as a human being in the same way that my opinion and beliefes are my right as a human being.
Jonno
That is exactly what I am saying, I have beliefs but none of you know what they are cos I done preach it to you.Quote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 19:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 19:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NikkiD@6 October 2003 - 18:14
I don't like someone trying to coerce me into believing what they do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and no one has the right to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for what they believe
I don't think anyone's beliefs are wrong, but they seem to think mine are, so who is IN the wrong??
As for Forcing, I said it was the wrong word already!
As for me calming down.......not yet, I ain't done yet.
I am having my say, I keep quiet about this stuff most of the time but I am having my say which is my right as a human being in the same way that my opinion and beliefes are my right as a human being.
Jonno [/b][/quote]
Well stop trying to force this down everyone else's throat.
Well stop trying to force this down everyone else's throat. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by JPaul+6 October 2003 - 18:54--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul @ 6 October 2003 - 18:54)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@6 October 2003 - 19:52
<!--QuoteBegin-NikkiD
Quote:
@6 October 2003 - 18:14
I don't like someone trying to coerce me into believing what they do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and no one has the right to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for what they believe
That is exactly what I am saying, I have beliefs but none of you know what they are cos I done preach it to you.
I don't think anyone's beliefs are wrong, but they seem to think mine are, so who is IN the wrong??
As for Forcing, I said it was the wrong word already!
As for me calming down.......not yet, I ain't done yet.
I am having my say, I keep quiet about this stuff most of the time but I am having my say which is my right as a human being in the same way that my opinion and beliefes are my right as a human being.
Jonno
:lol: Here Here (house of commons style)
:huh:
I agree with this quote and it goes both ways.Quote:
Originally posted by NikkiD@6 October 2003 - 18:14
I don't like someone trying to coerce me into believing what they do. Everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and no one has the right to tell someone else that they are right or wrong for what they believe
Well, to me that explains it just how it is.Quote:
Originally posted by rentalaugh@6 October 2003 - 14:40
We are all to some degree conditioned in our beliefs from an early age by our parents and society, as we get older and wiser we make our own choices. I believe no one has the right to expect others to have the same beliefs as they do.
Live and let live!
I could rant or go into a big speech about it all, but I won't. What I will say is, I believe in Jonno, Nikkid and for anyone else who says that, beliefs should stay a personal thing and should in no way be made to be forced onto another person. We all live our lives the way we want, no one can decide that for us.
I have my own idea's of religion, we all have, but all I'm saying is, freedom to believe in what you like is fine, I have nothing against any religion..just please don't push or force it on another and say they are wrong for their belief....that is totally wrong!!
I'm surprised that no-one's asked the question of who the member in question is :blink:Quote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@6 October 2003 - 19:52
I don't think anyone's beliefs are wrong, but they seem to think mine are, so who is IN the wrong??
Fair enough, just thought I would try a debate for a change is allQuote:
Originally posted by JPaul@6 October 2003 - 18:54
Well stop trying to force this down everyone else's throat.
@Illuminati........Does it really take much working out considering recent threads??
Jonno B)
:lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Jackstermj@6 October 2003 - 20:06
..just please don't push or force it on another and say they are wrong for their belief....that is totally wrong!!
Tell me you meant that.
Fair enough, just thought I would try a debate for a change is allQuote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 20:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@6 October 2003 - 18:54
Well stop trying to force this down everyone else's throat.
[/b][/quote]
There's no need to be so aggresive about it. Lighten up a bit.
But technically this thread is filled with people throwing there beliefs of being right or wrong at each other... I sence some irony here (spelling?) :lol:
I agree, your own beliefs are your own beliefs. if you feel you want to share them then you can but unfortunately it does leave you open.
but it is important to stand up for your beliefs if challenged but it doesnt give you a right to slate other people's beliefs and ideas.
We are all our own person!! :)
I'm not being agressive, you would know if I was :PQuote:
Originally posted by JPaul@6 October 2003 - 19:22
There's no need to be so aggresive about it. Lighten up a bit.
It's funny tho that people don't believe in other people believing in what they want to bellieve :blink:
Jonno B)
I'm not being agressive, you would know if I was :PQuote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 19:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 19:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@6 October 2003 - 19:22
There's no need to be so aggresive about it. Lighten up a bit.
It's funny tho that people don't believe in other people believing in what they want to bellieve :blink:
Jonno B) [/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]
I agree Jonno. It seems to be a one way street.
I'm not being agressive, you would know if I was :PQuote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 20:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@6 October 2003 - 19:22
There's no need to be so aggresive about it. Lighten up a bit.
It's funny tho that people don't believe in other people believing in what they want to bellieve :blink:
Jonno B) [/b][/quote]
Hhhmm this has been going on for absolutley eons!! How about the crusades for one famous example of forcing your belief?
what your saying is every one should accept the beliefs of other people yes?
Well in that case, you should accept that a big part of the Christian and Islamic faith is to preach and try and convert people.
Its also another big part to teach those who are ignorant to the faiths, and in some cases mandatory to try and convert (with out force).... so accept it :P
Jehovas Witness springs to mind :DQuote:
Originally posted by noname12@6 October 2003 - 20:36
what your saying is every one should accept the beliefs of other people yes?
Well in that case, you should accept that a big part of the Christian and Islamic faith is to preach and try and convert people.
Its also another big part to teach those who are ignorant to the faiths, and in some cases mandatory to try and convert (with out force).... so accept it :P
Actually i havent seen any of them for ages, are they still going?
There has been no aggression here and there definitely hasn't been anything that has been shoved down people's throats :blink:
This thread was opened as a discussion and to ask opinions. Like beliefs in religion as the topic of this thread, not everyone will agree with what everyone else has to say...but the whole purpose of it was to see different opinions and how it affects us, which is good, because some of us learn from it in some way or another.
So no good getting the ump with people because they don't agree with you, that's the whole point of having a blimming discussion in the first place. :D
Jehovas Witness springs to mind :DQuote:
Originally posted by danb+6 October 2003 - 19:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 6 October 2003 - 19:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-noname12@6 October 2003 - 20:36
what your saying is every one should accept the beliefs of other people yes?
Well in that case, you should accept that a big part of the Christian and Islamic faith is to preach and try and convert people.
Its also another big part to teach those who are ignorant to the faiths, and in some cases mandatory to try and convert (with out force).... so accept it :P
Actually i havent seen any of them for ages, are they still going? [/b][/quote]
Ohhhhh yes...they are still around..quick..hide :ph34r: :lol:
Joke :D
Jehovas Witness springs to mind :DQuote:
Originally posted by danb+6 October 2003 - 19:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 6 October 2003 - 19:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-noname12@6 October 2003 - 20:36
what your saying is every one should accept the beliefs of other people yes?
Well in that case, you should accept that a big part of the Christian and Islamic faith is to preach and try and convert people.
Its also another big part to teach those who are ignorant to the faiths, and in some cases mandatory to try and convert (with out force).... so accept it :P
Actually i havent seen any of them for ages, are they still going? [/b][/quote]
I think we need to ask JONNO... Jahova's witnesses go missing, then Jonno starts this thread... hmmmm... :blink:
<_< :lol: I did'nt do it. no body saw me do it, you can't prove anything :ph34r:Quote:
Originally posted by noname12@6 October 2003 - 19:41
I think we need to ask JONNO... Jahova's witnesses go missing, then Jonno starts this thread... hmmmm... :blink:
Jonno B)
Well I think it is important to respect other peoples beliefs....
Guess not.Quote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS@6 October 2003 - 20:19
@Illuminati........Does it really take much working out considering recent threads??
*Post is removed to keep the heat down - This was voluntary.*
Ohhhhh yes...they are still around..quick..hide :ph34r: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Jackstermj+6 October 2003 - 20:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jackstermj @ 6 October 2003 - 20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by danb@6 October 2003 - 19:38
<!--QuoteBegin-noname12
Quote:
@6 October 2003 - 20:36
what your saying is every one should accept the beliefs of other people yes?
Well in that case, you should accept that a big part of the Christian and Islamic faith is to preach and try and convert people.
Its also another big part to teach those who are ignorant to the faiths, and in some cases mandatory to try and convert (with out force).... so accept it :P
Jehovas Witness springs to mind :D
Actually i havent seen any of them for ages, are they still going?
Joke :D [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: okay i believe you!
try asking them in, that really confuses them
@Jonno - sorry for lowering the tone :D You could have cut the air with a knife though :unsure:
@Illuminati.......I understand completly what you are saying but having pm'd this person he is not a Hypo wannabe, he has genuin beliefes that I/we/it is wrong.
And the only reason I bit is because that particular topic is very very close to home.
I know people.......very very good friends that I care a great deal about who have been thru this, not to mention a very close family member and I needed to vent.
@Dan.......No worries dude, I'm the same, you know that ;)
To all of you who have read and taken part in this thread.
I never intended for this to flame and I don't think it has, I think we have all been very mature about this and I thank you for it.
I also apologise to anyone offended by any of my posts.
I started this thread mostly out of anger, which was wrong, but it has been an eye opener for me and I have learnt a lot.
Jonno B)
I'm not being agressive, you would know if I was :PQuote:
Originally posted by JONNO_CELEBS+6 October 2003 - 20:26--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JONNO_CELEBS @ 6 October 2003 - 20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@6 October 2003 - 19:22
There's no need to be so aggresive about it. Lighten up a bit.
It's funny tho that people don't believe in other people believing in what they want to bellieve :blink:
Jonno B) [/b][/quote]
It's a bit of a mindbender, I thought. :lol:
I Believe my brain hurts!
Exactly! i was actually listening to this R&B station and the guy started preaching :angry: it kind of pissed me off actually.. if i knew the number to the station i would defenately call him up to stop preaching to the audience.. he probably failed to realize that many people listen to the radio including people that do not have the same faith as he does..Quote:
My thoughts on this are that beliefs are personal and are best kept that way.
Forcing them onto others only invites trouble.
if history has taught us anything is not to pound your beliefs on anyone because it does not work. it only causes agression and bloodletting. Eg)The Crusades, Communism, Fundamentalism, Imperialism (including todays US imperialism, which bush should not further), The Roman Empire so on and so forth..
people starting fights and other unfortunate parts of history have much less to do with the actual beliefs they carry and much more with the fact that humans are flawed not perfect little machines (thats a good thing mostimes) communism is a great idea but people are greedy so it doesnt work never has never will the soldiers fighting in the crusades had little education and the people pushing the war wern't exactly acting in the way the bible teaches.
people shouldnt push there beliefs on anyone but that doesnt mean they dont have the right to stand for them or argue for them being right
http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/clap.gifQuote:
Originally posted by hawk@7 October 2003 - 17:44
people shouldnt push there beliefs on anyone but that doesnt mean they dont have the right to stand for them or argue for them being right
Well said, that man.
http://www.mcbriens.net/liam/img/smilies/clap.gifQuote:
Originally posted by Lamsey+7 October 2003 - 12:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey @ 7 October 2003 - 12:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hawk@7 October 2003 - 17:44
people shouldnt push there beliefs on anyone but that doesnt mean they dont have the right to stand for them or argue for them being right
Well said, that man. [/b][/quote]
Yes-
Succinctly put.
Liam-
I'm putting Clocker onto Cacheman-feel free to PM him with your input.
I have my own faith only partly linked with the church.
I think that probably after death people get into a kind of energy...
...but do not know... but after realizing thati n humany body there is
small energy :)
thks...