Are torrent invite communities really trading in disguise?

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Originally Posted by brightsid

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I do believe in non-movement, don't get me wrong - but if you say that anti-traders who believe in giveaways are hypocrites then you're also saying that the staff of the trackers allowing that are also hypocrites. It's just a matter of what your opinion on the issue is, and how secure you want your site to be.

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The non-movement list is one of the things I can't really understand in TPS. I'm tvseries maniac and I want to join BitmeTV for example. Noone is allowed to request or ga invites of this tracker. I'm a good user with perfect proofs. What's the point of not allowing to request? Is there something I can do except pming highly reped guys offering bj in private?

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I would try to find out what that tracker's position is on letting people in there. If they don't *want* to make it easy for people to join, then that's their choice whether you like it or not. If you're determined and capable, you can get into any place eventually.

For getting my content, I personally prefer trackers like what.cd which are not so closed and actually give good people an opportunity to join and don't give themselves a restricted user limit. But if bitmetv doesn't neessarily offer anything better than other places which might be easier to join (I'm not sure if that's the case), I wouldn't bother, there's no point in either trying or getting hung up about it.

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Originally Posted by The_Martinator

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

That's my big complaint about general tracker forums - that no one seems to care about the content .The movie and TV sections are mostly comprised of what's the last movie you watched?
Some people even put this like The.Tournament.2009.DVDRip.XviD-MoH That's not a movie that 's a release you fucking idiot.

Whew. that felt good. Been wanting to get that off my chest for a while.

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I'm glad you said that and I completely agree. Some take their time to put a rating besides the release. It's almost always a 9/10 (you can't give it a 10, that'd be weird, lol).

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Why the hate for the "Rate that movie" thread? I use it all the time and others do too for finding something to watch. Quite a few people go that step further, at least adding an IMDB link and the year, maybe even a poster and a small review without spoilers. Also I very seldom see 9 and 10 ratings unless it's older movies i.e. people having watched something, they've heard about, had recommended etc.

And BTW if you think the "rate that movie" posters on whatever site you are on are lazy, then change that by posting decent review. It's simple.

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I would try to find out what that tracker's position is on letting people in there. If they don't *want* to make it easy for people to join, then that's their choice whether you like it or not. If you're determined and capable, you can get into any place eventually.

For getting my content, I personally prefer trackers like what.cd which are not so closed and actually give good people an opportunity to join and don't give themselves a restricted user limit. But if bitmetv doesn't neessarily offer anything better than other places which might be easier to join (I'm not sure if that's the case), I wouldn't bother, there's no point in either trying or getting hung up about it.

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Tracker's position is simple and clear "DO NOT OFFER INVITES IN PUBLIC". But none is offering, I'm just requesting and we are talking for a tracker with an invites offering subforum :frusty:. Last time I checked there was a special channel for staff to discuss their positions. And these so called invite communities should care more for their simple users position than how to be good with staff in order to join the ***** trackers.

As for what.cd I like their approach also but it is not the best thing to do if you care for security

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Originally Posted by Night0wl

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Originally Posted by The_Martinator

I'm glad you said that and I completely agree. Some take their time to put a rating besides the release. It's almost always a 9/10 (you can't give it a 10, that'd be weird, lol).

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Why the hate for the "Rate that movie" thread? I use it all the time and others do too for finding something to watch. Quite a few people go that step further, at least adding an IMDB link and the year, maybe even a poster and a small review without spoilers. Also I very seldom see 9 and 10 ratings unless it's older movies i.e. people having watched something, they've heard about, had recommended etc.

And BTW if you think the "rate that movie" posters on whatever site you are on are lazy, then change that by posting decent review. It's simple.

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I'm trying to. Allthough I don't go as far as reviews. IDK which site you visit, but most trackers' forums are the same here. No IMDB links, just a neame and a rating. Or as Idol pointed out even the release name (as in I watched it in HD, so I'm cool or something) and a rating. And yes, I do search the movies and 95%+ are from 2009 atm.

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Originally Posted by brightsid

As for what.cd I like their approach also but it is not the best thing to do if you care for security

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Well you'v'e got to have *some* compromise. What.CD *aims* to be large. They always knew they would have undesirables within their membership if they were to have a huge member base. It's inevitable. WhatMan was only speaking relatively, if I interpret correctly.

Where they have secured up the site, is where it counts. Where Alan Ellis failed (like putting his fricking name and address on OiNK's whois and who knows what else), what.cd staff excell. Last time I heard, A9 uses a different proxy address every single day. They should be doing that, they're a massive target.

Of course, this is if you mean security for the site itself. For the users, well that's up to them. They can use seedboxes and VPNs if they want, set profiles to tinfoil hat and use SSL and whatever else they want to protect themselves.

Without sounding like a lame suckeruperer, I agree with what.cd's approach in pretty much everything they do, it's the tracker that turned me from hating all private trackers (cos I couldn't fricking get into them) to having faith in their relevancy in the wider file sharing world.

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I think or perhaps I don't think or maybe am thinking that am thinking but assuming that am thinking its kinda hard to take a position with all these people staring at my avatar so let me start throwing disclaimers after every sentence i come up with,after all am a lawyer guy :lol:

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seriously dood easy on the disclaimers.Its not TPS :lol:,feel free to articulate your position without fear of any nick/avatar combination just so long as you are within the board rules :P.You being all over the place kinda makes me strain to get your main points lol.

But upon that,I have to agree with you that what.cd is perhaps the only tracker where the terms safety and axx can be put together in the same sentence without sounding ambiguous.

One can literally move from texan style goat farming to what.cd membership without having known anybody in BT.I doubt whether there are any other quality trackers out there that can boast of this eminence.

If its for the good of the tracker,then whatever invite policy is in place then it shouldn't really be an issue(and that's basically what threw me off about polarbear's statement).

On another point,invite gives are dangerous but they sure aren't as precarious as trades are.I'd definitely charge higher premiums to a trader (supposed this was risk insurance) than someone offering invites to people he/she has scrutinized(at least to his/her ability) .

Also if you look at it beyond the surface,these crafts are guided by two completely divergent attitudes;One by selfishness and the other one by generosity making the former more dangerous(simpleton,right?).
That said,I think for no other reason other than security then its well within reason if staffers are unable to distinguish between trades and gives.

As to which one is more of a threat to BT between invite forums and sites like FST,i guess thats up for debate but if I was one of the anti-piracy folks I don't think I'd start hunting for invites to sites worth checking out on a forum like this but i'd rather TPS and the likes(the more secretive the better as thats how you get into the super secrets lol).

Why would I want to struggle creating a fake persona here that may eventually not materialize and yet I can have it easy by simply joining a site full of people who can't stand seeing an invite on their profile page and are just itching to get rid of it?

Places that credibility is evaluated by post count,user rank,rep points etc.I mean how easy can it be.When the feds(not these anti-piracy faggots) finally get tired of chasing after the scene and decide to come after P2P,that's when people will realise how bad these invite gathering sites really are.

As late as 04/05,the scene wasn't as secretive as it is today,there were sites that sceners actively participated in and some groups went to as far as recruiting from.But then the busts happened,something changed and the sites were no more.I don't know why its even up really but for anybody who cares,do check out
http://www.scenenews.com
for a practical experience on how things can quickly change.

FST has a reputation for harboring angry individuals but that's really not the case,if somebody makes a ridiculous invite request then for the sake of those that are to come after them,they have to be told why their request lacks credibility.Some refuse to listen hence the occasional 'shouting' perhaps in an effort to navigate past the ear wax in order to get to them.
Good requests at least from my time here eventually get fulfilled.

lol at the epic triple offtopic :lol:

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Originally Posted by sez

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I think or perhaps I don't think or maybe am thinking that am thinking but assuming that am thinking its kinda hard to take a position with all these people staring at my avatar so let me start throwing disclaimers after every sentence i come up with,after all am a lawyer guy :lol:

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:lol::lol: ... but I'm pretty sure I am clear about my positions, you will find my "disclaimers" are merely openness and awareness of other people's opinions :P.

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Originally Posted by Night0wl

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Originally Posted by The_Martinator

I'm glad you said that and I completely agree. Some take their time to put a rating besides the release. It's almost always a 9/10 (you can't give it a 10, that'd be weird, lol).

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Why the hate for the "Rate that movie" thread? I use it all the time and others do too for finding something to watch. Quite a few people go that step further, at least adding an IMDB link and the year, maybe even a poster and a small review without spoilers. Also I very seldom see 9 and 10 ratings unless it's older movies i.e. people having watched something, they've heard about, had recommended etc.

And BTW if you think the "rate that movie" posters on whatever site you are on are lazy, then change that by posting decent review. It's simple.

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I have absolutely no problem with the concept of a rate the movie ( or ass ) thread.
I don't know if you read the whole thread here but the whole point to my diatribe was that few people on 0day trackers seem to have any interest in the actual content .Some of the lack of meaningful posts are no doubt because many members are not fluent in English but that still doesn't excuse the other x percent .
As for my lack of recent contributions basically at some point I got tired of talking to myself.
That and I don't know if you've noticed but some of these forums aren't too open to critical posts and since an unavoidable part of film talk is criticism ( and since most recent movies, the only ones that again that the majority show any interest in, are - others words to the contrary - pretty bad ) I made a conscious decision not to be " the negative one ".:)

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Originally Posted by clocker

Most of the posts in a thread don't really invite/warrant a response.

Really, what can be said when someone posts "Saw Movie X, 8/10 LOL"?

I've mentioned before how useless the "x out of 10" rating system is since we have no clue what the "10" might be...Citizen Kane or Paul Blart: Mall Cop?
Makes a difference.

It also matters why you liked (or disliked) a movie since it's possible to love a crap film for good reasons- and vice-versa- but most folks don't bother telling us anything about their reasoning, so basically, you can respond with either "You're a moron" or "I sooo totally agree!".

Most of a thread is just Twitter without the immediacy..."Got up, took a dump, went and saw Transformers2, felt unclean...".

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What he said

I understand that people have differing views , not everyone is going to like what I like but really , how can I answer a post about Terminator Salvation without saying something that the person who wrote it won't want to hear.

PS on topic Just to clarify a point TPS succeeds because it co-operates with trackers and not because of it's lack of traders .
Correct me if I'm wrong but not doing it openly and not doing it are two entirely different things.

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Most of this thread is just Twitter without the immediacy..."Got up, took a dump, went and saw Transformers2 , felt unclean...".

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not only that, but MOST of the ppl here only go to the lounge and talk about non-sense i'd care not even know about. ie: is there corn in your shit ?

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LO effin el :lol:

Great Topic and very debatable...

I believe it is trading in disguise. Expecting something in return is selfish, those who truly deserve invites will be good members and contribute selflessly back to the community. Invites that aren't going to potential good members only hurts the community.

Essentially giving invites to those that deserve it helps them as well as helps the whole community. Therefore building stronger community to bring better and unique content.

On another note, i believe highly sought after content is not all that is important, unique content really brings a community together.

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Originally Posted by bysomebodydumb

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Originally Posted by bysomebodyevendumber

Everyone missed one important one



GRANDMA'S BOY!!!!

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4th post in, bro. =P

I scanned over this thread, and a lot of the classics that I would recommend have already been mentioned (Super Troopers, Lebowski, Dumb & Dumber, etc.), but I didn't happen to notice anyone suggesting these two epics:

Fast Times at Ridgemont High
Dazed & Confused

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Under recommend a good comedy movie

Seriously see the level that I have to deal with.
You can say that SuperTroopers is a good movie ,you can even say that Dumb and Dumber is the second coming of Christ for all I care, but please never refer to them as classics.

And saying that Gramdma's Boy is good or even a movie is just ...wrong.

Btw also listed A Night at the Roxbury, Undercover Brother,Kung Pao: Enter the Fist,Starsky and Hutch , The White Chicks and the list goes on.
If you changed the list to terrible ,failed , miserable attempts at a comedy movie then they would be right.

Someone even put Lethal Weapon:blink: I know that it's open to interpretation but I don't think amid the whole unhinged suicidal cop , murdering, drug dealing mercenaries torture and death thing a comedy was what director Richard Donner was especially going for.
Lots of films have moments of humour in them ,it doesn't make them comedies .

Just saying if membership in trackers was restricted by an appreciation of what you were downloading most people would be using Mininova.

Most of members, while sharing invites, probably look and judge by reputation points. And it can be "wrong". On the other side, if giving away invites here is risk, than one can say that one is worth giving away invite because he/she also "took that risk" (if ones has that "reputation points".

I am just making one giveaway and there will be no "rules", just my personal instinct and perception.

Why am I sharing those invites? I guess it is because, when I registered here few years ago, I was only on Demonoid constantly fighting with low speeds and lack of seeders. I don't like that feeling/situation.

I can lose those accounts, yes, but once before someone else took that risk and invited me. And I am know enjoying privileges of being member at some of the best trackers on the web.

Also, people need to learn to trust more to each other. Constant hatred, suspicion and accusing is leading nowhere.

P.S. Sorry for my english, it isn't my main language.

And from where should that trust come?

I have seen countless posts on BG/UG power user forums, where a long standing and reputable member of the site has been disabled from what/waffles for inviting a cheater. Mind you, they were inviting users that were also power/elite on BG/UG. Some of these members, who have been using what/waffles since the beginning, were disabled for "trusting" the supposed "power users" of a forum. And once your disabled at one of those sites, there is really no alternative. Other music trackers simply can't match their content. When a old user is disabled like that, how do you fit "trust" into your mind?

Trust comes from your instinct for sure

When you invited someone you can always get disabled or even bring a bad apple in a site you really enjoy. Even if he is a real life friend or your brother (there are a few topics around :P).
The same can happen to staff there are a few rumors today

Don't forget we are talking about a hobby.

I think you're looking too much into this.
These are torrent sites... basically meaningless in the world of usenet combined with megaupload.

Building rep is not trading... that's like saying giving someone a birthday gift is bribing them to still remain/become your friend.

As for trust... in this world of illegal downloading you're sure to find lots of shady people. This is the new Wild West.

it seems to me its alot like breaking into any kind of entertainment industry. you have to have experience to get gigs but to get experience you have to do gigs.
i completely understand the admins of these sites points of view as far as their dislike of public giveaways but in the real world im not used to anything for free. everything seems to have a cost. trading invites to me seemed just a logical means of obtaining whatever access you needed. you have something i want and i have something you want.

basically giving invites to build rep just so you can get invites is the exact same as trading, you are taking a much bigger risk but it seems more socially acceptable. its ok to get drunk but dont smoke weed. if you dont think that building rep is the same as trading then would you be so eager to give those invites out if the rep system didnt exist?

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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they post announcement.i think what.cd hates ttinvite.but this forum is responsible for what.cd.they banned what.cd invte give away from ttinvite:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling

in news section they make post -what-cd-invites-forbidden

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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i think u hate TTinvite. but i think TTinvite is great community and TTinvite not trade anything like account or invite.

and u know whatcd is forbidden in TTinvite. TTinvite follow tracker rules.

TTinvite never break any Tracker Rules. :P

Keep it simple Do not ask for invite .... nor make a give away let staff recruit members from different forums ... no one gets disabled for inviting bad users.

ooh fancy thread...well if people don't want invites given thru trades and dislike giveaways as well...then how the heck are people supposed to get into new sites?

i dunno anyone irl who uses torrents...so does that mean I shouldn't be on any tracker anywhere? well I don't trade, my ratio's are fine (mostly anyways lol)...I'm fairly well known (in a good manner) on the sites I care about and so on and so forth...in short, I think I'm a fairly decent user/member who makes for a good person to be on torrent trackers...so just 'coz I know of nobody who uses torrents, it means I don't deserve to get in either?

can't say I agree there

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Originally Posted by Zebra

Keep it simple Do not ask for invite .... nor make a give away let staff recruit members from different forums ... no one gets disabled for inviting bad users.

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If it would work like that staffers would waste all their time answering applicants and not taking care of the site as for what kool said I also don't have any friends that torrent so why should i be denied a specific site if I don't know a user personally (and you know their are allot of people who have invited real life friends to trackers and they cheated/stole ect.... no guarantee can ever be made about an invitee)

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

And saying that Gramdma's Boy is good or even a movie is just ...wrong.

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Smoke some marijuana before watching, you will say it's a great movie.

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Originally Posted by supernew

i think u hate TTinvite. but i think TTinvite is great community and TTinvite not trade anything like account or invite.

and u know whatcd is forbidden in TTinvite. TTinvite follow tracker rules.

TTinvite never break any Tracker Rules. :P

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lol
http://i49.tinypic.com/2afk6ck.jpg

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Originally Posted by supernew

TTinvite never break any Tracker Rules. :P

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suuuuuure... :rolleyes:
I'd even go as far as to say that trackers love the fact it simply exists.

As rart hinted, such sites are hives of traders.
As an example, I remember being at TPS and at some random thread I said I was a member at FTN. During 2 weeks i kept getting random messages of people either a) begging (and i mean, begging) me to invite them or b) people hinting what i would want to get in return to trade that account. :O FFS...
This at a explicitly non trading forum.

well I'm on a particular site atm currently which is seemingly despised by BCG (atleast)...thankfully, I wasn't outright banned as I have good friends on BCG who told me the scenario beforehand

that said, I see no harm on being a member of any site - or for that matter, using them

its "what" you use the site for which changes everything...trade there and you are a bad user...hell trade here, and you are still a bad user

on the other hand, meet and chat with ppl here and you are good...if you do the same on any other site, then you are still just as good in my books...so banning members for being a member of wherever is a bit harsh but I understand its not always easy to differentiate between users so some liberty needs to be taken at some point

@Totti...precisely my point! just today I was talking to a member who's a member of a certain flac only site and he didn't even know how to rip flac music!...on the other hand, I'm not on the site - have no interest in flac - yet still know how to rip flac...now I've got nothing against that fella (he seemed like a very good guy infact) but I'd like to think, with all other things constant, I probably make a better user than him (assuming I had an interest in flac ofcourse - which I don't so that's that)

as someone once said, the world's a cruel cruel place indeed

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Originally Posted by kooltilldend

ooh fancy thread...well if people don't want invites given thru trades and dislike giveaways as well...then how the heck are people supposed to get into new sites?

i dunno anyone irl who uses torrents...so does that mean I shouldn't be on any tracker anywhere? well I don't trade, my ratio's are fine (mostly anyways lol)...I'm fairly well known (in a good manner) on the sites I care about and so on and so forth...in short, I think I'm a fairly decent user/member who makes for a good person to be on torrent trackers...so just 'coz I know of nobody who uses torrents, it means I don't deserve to get in either?

can't say I agree there

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Wow this thread got resurrected :blink:

As to the posts about TTinvite (which got this thread back up), whatever the hell that is, please don't turn this thread into flames about it.

KTD, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Giveaways are fine. When they don't have ulterior motives behind them. If some upstanding member here at FST who doesn't live in the BTinvites section occasionally decides to be generous and do a giveaway based on good will, thats fine (honestly that's a little idealist but as long as it's not blatant it's fine).

The problem occurs when you enter an invite site and the entire perspective changes. No longer are invites given based on good will. Torrent invite forums, in the simplest of terms, turn into a game. It's no longer a place to turn to and "discuss" bittorrent. Everyone is there for one sole purpose: obtaining invites to better sites. People furiously give out invites, often without any care, getting banned when they invited cheaters into their cherished sites. Why do they give out invites so carelessly? Because they want rep points in exchange. That's the root of the problem. Everyone is judged not by their traits, but by a numerical value as impersonal as how many rep points or how many GA threads you have. What's the easiest way to obtain a better status, in order to get the sites you want? Do more giveaways.

In this regard, I find it nearly indistinguishable from trading. People are giving away invites fully knowing and expecting what they will be paid with in return. When they give away invites, they demand rep in return. Ultimately, albeit a bit more indirectly, by exchanging these invites you are getting rep points that will pay you back later with better invites. Trading is the same thing. You give an invite, fully expecting something beneficial to you in return. Where do you draw the line between this kind of behavior and trading? I don't know. Do you?

As a side note, even on sites that seem to fare better than others in terms of discussion, still don't provide me with what I'm looking for. The sites feel stilted at best, as if people are forced to artificially post something they believe is "constructive". I don't want someone to constantly be breathing behind my back and making sure my posts are approved. I want to post whatever the hell I want.

Just my thoughts.

Nice way to say it. I think its totally true.

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Originally Posted by Rart

Wow this thread got resurrected :blink:

As to the posts about TTinvite (which got this thread back up), whatever the hell that is, please don't turn this thread into flames about it.

KTD, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Giveaways are fine. When they don't have ulterior motives behind them. If some upstanding member here at FST who doesn't live in the BTinvites section occasionally decides to be generous and do a giveaway based on good will, thats fine (honestly that's a little idealist but as long as it's not blatant it's fine).

The problem occurs when you enter an invite site and the entire perspective changes. No longer are invites given based on good will. Torrent invite forums, in the simplest of terms, turn into a game. It's no longer a place to turn to and "discuss" bittorrent. Everyone is there for one sole purpose: obtaining invites to better sites. People furiously give out invites, often without any care, getting banned when they invited cheaters into their cherished sites. Why do they give out invites so carelessly? Because they want rep points in exchange. That's the root of the problem. Everyone is judged not by their traits, but by a numerical value as impersonal as how many rep points or how many GA threads you have. What's the easiest way to obtain a better status, in order to get the sites you want? Do more giveaways.

In this regard, I find it nearly indistinguishable from trading. People are giving away invites fully knowing and expecting what they will be paid with in return. When they give away invites, they demand rep in return. Ultimately, albeit a bit more indirectly, by exchanging these invites you are getting rep points that will pay you back later with better invites. Trading is the same thing. You give an invite, fully expecting something beneficial to you in return. Where do you draw the line between this kind of behavior and trading? I don't know. Do you?

As a side note, even on sites that seem to fare better than others in terms of discussion, still don't provide me with what I'm looking for. The sites feel stilted at best, as if people are forced to artificially post something they believe is "constructive". I don't want someone to constantly be breathing behind my back and making sure my posts are approved. I want to post whatever the hell I want.

Just my thoughts.

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Absolutely true. The "yes men" train is the best definition to each discussion that ensues any kind of idea or suggestion.
People are artificially nice to each other, and agree so much with each other, because they have their own agenda, which is to look friendly and later apply for an invite. :dry:
There's not really any ideas exchanged there, nor criticisms, just a bunch of people agreeing with each other. And that's crap, people don't agree with each other most of the time, or have different ideas about different subjects. It's the human nature. And at those places it's completely subverted.

Yes, those sites are communities and people don't flame or criticize each other. But is it any fun having to agree with stuff you don't, just for the sake of an invitation for that "dream tracker" ?

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

As rart hinted, such sites are hives of traders.
As an example, I remember being at TPS and at some random thread I said I was a member at FTN. During 2 weeks i kept getting random messages of people either a) begging (and i mean, begging) me to invite them or b) people hinting what i would want to get in return to trade that account. :O FFS...
This at a explicitly non trading forum.

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I got the samething at TPS. On two separate occasions. Many pm's, from complete strangers either begging or hinting at trades. In my time here at FST, I've gotten maybe two or three pm's from people asking for an invite. And you would think by how people praise TPS(why? I have no idea) and bash FST, that my experience would have been the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Funkin'

I got the samething at TPS. On two separate occasions. Many pm's, from complete strangers either begging or hinting at trades. In my time here at FST, I've gotten maybe two or three pm's from people asking for an invite. And you would think by how people praise TPS(why? I have no idea) and bash FST, that my experience would have been the other way around.

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People go to TPS to get invites, people come to FST to discuss filesharing. I see so many people with hidden agendas at TPS, I've never seen anything like that here on FST. The people here are straightforward... either you come here to trade or you come here to have real discussion with people.

Man...this section has gone to boredom land.. we need to revive this mofuka

We need some fresh new ideas and topics to get the discussions going. It's been a couple of days since I saw a worthy-of-talking-about thread and it's not even even a new topic.

No

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Originally Posted by Albo Da Kid

Man...this section has gone to boredom land.. we need to revive this mofuka

We need some fresh new ideas and topics to get the discussions going. It's been a couple of days since I saw a worthy-of-talking-about thread and it's not even even a new topic.

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Very true indeed :yup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albo Da Kid

Man...this section has gone to boredom land.. we need to revive this mofuka

We need some fresh new ideas and topics to get the discussions going. It's been a couple of days since I saw a worthy-of-talking-about thread and it's not even even a new topic.

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I'm sure you'll be able to come up with something... :whistling

PS: My 2000th post. I am ze geek.

PPS: I'm not as active here simply because I don't have time atm.

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Originally Posted by The_Martinator

PPS: I'm not as active here simply because I don't have time atm have better things to do.

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I'm a big believer in telling it like it is .:happy:

Haha, you got me. :P

Not better, but more important and not quite as fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albo Da Kid

Man...this section has gone to boredom land.. we need to revive this mofuka

We need some fresh new ideas and topics to get the discussions going. It's been a couple of days since I saw a worthy-of-talking-about thread and it's not even even a new topic.

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Bring back Swepsycho!

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Originally Posted by Rart

Wow this thread got resurrected :blink:

As to the posts about TTinvite (which got this thread back up), whatever the hell that is, please don't turn this thread into flames about it.

KTD, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Giveaways are fine. When they don't have ulterior motives behind them. If some upstanding member here at FST who doesn't live in the BTinvites section occasionally decides to be generous and do a giveaway based on good will, thats fine (honestly that's a little idealist but as long as it's not blatant it's fine).

The problem occurs when you enter an invite site and the entire perspective changes. No longer are invites given based on good will. Torrent invite forums, in the simplest of terms, turn into a game. It's no longer a place to turn to and "discuss" bittorrent. Everyone is there for one sole purpose: obtaining invites to better sites. People furiously give out invites, often without any care, getting banned when they invited cheaters into their cherished sites. Why do they give out invites so carelessly? Because they want rep points in exchange. That's the root of the problem. Everyone is judged not by their traits, but by a numerical value as impersonal as how many rep points or how many GA threads you have. What's the easiest way to obtain a better status, in order to get the sites you want? Do more giveaways.

In this regard, I find it nearly indistinguishable from trading. People are giving away invites fully knowing and expecting what they will be paid with in return. When they give away invites, they demand rep in return. Ultimately, albeit a bit more indirectly, by exchanging these invites you are getting rep points that will pay you back later with better invites. Trading is the same thing. You give an invite, fully expecting something beneficial to you in return. Where do you draw the line between this kind of behavior and trading? I don't know. Do you?

As a side note, even on sites that seem to fare better than others in terms of discussion, still don't provide me with what I'm looking for. The sites feel stilted at best, as if people are forced to artificially post something they believe is "constructive". I don't want someone to constantly be breathing behind my back and making sure my posts are approved. I want to post whatever the hell I want.

Just my thoughts.

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it wasn't me I swear :happy: (i'm glad it got resurrected however ^^)

Seriously though, I wasn't really responding to your first post here (which btw is totally true - couldn't agree more with it)...rather my post was against a person who said that ga's are as bad as trading (or something along those lines - as usual I forgot to quote though lol)

Also I understand what you mean by doing ga's just for the sake of those rep points or w/e its called...I've never liked that system tbh as I think there are better ways to assess the value of a member...that said, the same system exists here too (thankfully most people here are mature enough to look past that system - but it exists nonetheless)...so my question is...why have it at all? Its clear that it doesn't tell the worth of a member and rather just leads to abuse of the system (and of the trackers/invites in question)...yet still every site seems to have the system...pretty sad really

To answer your questions though...you are right...its no different (nor better - perhaps even worse since most people see it as a good thing) than trading...doing ga's to random people for random reasons is just silly

Also I've never been supportive of the idea of arse-lickers...if I disagree with something, I say it...I don't care who it is or what it is...I will never agree with something just to get somewhere ....heck I probably would've been on FTN today if I did (that particular thread)...however, I have my own ethics, morals and things I stand by...I hate nonsensical accusations and similarly I hate people who get to places by licking other people's boots

such people, in my books, have no shame whatsoever :happy:

cheers!

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Originally Posted by Rart

Now before I really go into this, I'll detail what I normally see on FST:

If someone wants to join a site, they'll make a request and post it in the invite section.

After its posted, people will view the thread and decide whether the poster is worthy of an invite.

When they decide whether someone deserves an invite, they look at their past activity on the site. Have they been making useful posts or just spam? Have they made trades or posted in the trading section before? Have they ever had an account before, or made a request before? If you haven't noticed, one thing is missing: their BT rep.

I've rarely, if ever, seen someone judge a potential invitee by their past giveaways. Most people realize that many members are sketchy at best, and they realize people don't want to risk giving invites out on FST (not to mention many sites ban public GA's). Now that's not to say giving out invites would hurt your chances. If you lack in activity, having given out invites previously could help. I've never seen someone post on a invite request saying "You're a really good and active member of the site, but you haven't given away enough invites".

The key idea is that a BT rep of GA's isn't required.

But now turn to torrent invite communities.

I define trading as this: You are giving an invite with the intent of expecting something in return. Tracker staff ban this as it encourages invites to be given solely by the value of the invite, while ignoring the value of the member. This results in more banned members, more hit and runners, a slower site overall, and more work for the staff.

In torrent invite communities, You are giving an invite with the intent of expecting something in return.

Debate it as much as you like, but invites are almost never given out for the sole purpose of giving out invites. "Rep", along with posts, is one of crucial factors in "climbing up the ranks". Every GA has a rep requirement. If you're a 10,000 post member with no rep, you are not getting an invite. Rep is the most essential factor in acquiring an invite. Sure, you may be giving up a precious invite right now, but you are expecting great dividends. You are giving away an invite now in exchange for getting an invite later.

Take for example one thread I had seen. He was a relatively new member, probably around 1 month. I looked at his GA thread - he had SCC, GFT, the works. Oh an I forgot to mention, he had 8 SCT invites. Within a matter of days, they were ALL given out in rapid succession. He gained huge amounts of rep. He was a star in the community. Now, I know that SCT invites aren't given out for free. Once in a blue moon they may have a competition that gives out 1 or 2 invites, but this guy had 8. There was a recent 2x bonus for donations. But that still equates to paying for 4 invites, which is 50 euros. And by donating for invites you get zero upload credit. All given out, in a matter of days, to the most shady of members, collectors on invite sites. Now, you may argue that this was an act of generosity. But that is the minute exception. More than likely, it was probably a member quickly giving out invites in the hope that he would bolster his rep enough to quickly get an FTN invite (which apparently seem to be all the rage nowadays).

I ask you this: how is this different from trading? You are giving out 8 SCT invites, to total strangers that could very well get you banned from the site, not to mention that that's 50 euros in cold hard cash. You are giving out the invites, with the sole intention of expecting something in return: a high level invite because you are now a reputable member. Reputable, not from posts, activities, or past actions, but because of giving out invites. The sole principle that torrent invite communities revolve around. How is giving something and expecting something in return not trading?

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I think (and I don't overlook the chance that I may be wrong but take it as my opinion) that the OP was a bit confused about what he wrote in his post
Let us look at the heading
Are torrent invite communities really trading in disguise?
The way to discuss the topic as the heading suggested was to actually point out whether the rules or admins of such forums were involved or helping in trading. Now that is different from the members of a particular forum or board involving in trades i.e if a few members of Filesharingtalk.com are actively supporting trading it is not enough to declare it as a trading board or forum but the fact is that this site host a trading subsection so it is infect supporting trading as a forum/board. Now take for example a forum such as TPS. At TPS the rules and admins are clearly against the trading idea . There is no subsection supporting trades on TPS so in no way we can accuse TPS for trading if some members are dealing in trades that is there individual act. Also I have my own ideas about trading which comprise of positive and negative trades. These are explained here :-
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-gen...u-think-378691

I'm sorry but I fail to see how trading section here shows that FST supports trading.
I might be mistaken but aren't allowing and supporting two entirely different things.
Many States allow marriage as young as 16 ( or younger ) but I doubt if you will find many that say they support anyone actually doing it.

TBS and the like may put themselves in a better light than FST by their stance but it the words ring a little hollow .
Draconian measures may appeal to those lacking in intelligence but as example after example has shown they do very little in solving any problems ,they merely result in driving them underground.
At least here at FST some people ,agree or disagree with what they do, acknowledge who they are and you then have a choice depending on your sensibilities with whether you wish to associate with them or not.