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Hard for me to criticize someone else's decision, I can only say that if caught in similar circumstances myself I would have clammed up and taken the rap. On the other hand I am not dumb enough to try and profit from a bit torrent site in the first place, so I guess it is a moot point.
[you] tagQuote:
Originally Posted by yankeezfan1
I can’t be asked to spend time making this eloquent so I won’t! Am I mad at the snitch? If the way this is being told is correct, because there is still some doubt over the way things are being portrayed, or even if it just along the right lines then yes mad as hell!
Regardless of human nature and the desire for self preservation, any individual must adhere to his own ethical or moral code, and pretty high up on mine is don’t drop your mates in the sh**!
If he was part of that type of community then it should be the same for him, or he was a good pretender.
Having said all that I do get the pressure he may have been under, but hey if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
The main thing is that no staffers or other members got any (real) heat from this whole thing. It's a shame that the site is closed, but if all is good in RL, then there'll always be a way to return in some form (we all hope anyway).
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5919/logicc001.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Ags
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8990/logiccc002.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9117/logick003.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3759/logick004.jpg
That said,it is highly unlikely that whoever caused the site take down was some random guy.Probably a staffer.
you either misinterpreted what i said or you're a bit slow. if you have a legal document in front of you saying that if you give up your source then you'll get a reduced sentence, you take it and lie. whats the point of staying strong and not ratting if ratting doesnt affect anything? and i wasnt saying you shouldnt name uk-t because of how elite it was or some bullshit, i was in uk-t and nobody in there that i knew of had that attitude. im saying that if you name a huge place like mininova or torrentleech then you're just giving them information they already have and they clearly cant shut down places like those or they would have done it already, uk-t or any other small site on the other hand will and rightfully should close down shop if they are being investigated by the police. in this case saying "i got my dvd's from mininova" wouldn't change a thing except get you a reduced sentence, if you dont take that deal you're a fucking moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabytemeNo. Turning on TL, mininova, or ANYONE else is just as cowardly and stupid. Just because UK-T was a liked (elitez) site does not mean it deserves more "protection". You keep your mouth shut regarding yourself AND everyone else. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by grow4dough
Don't try to fool yourself into thinking that ratting on anyone is EVER justified. Don't be a part of fucking ANYONE over.
For a second I thought this thread was about bumrocks.
Wow you guys keep up with the latest things going down in BT. Nice.
You are calling me slow? You think it is better to lie about someone not involved at all in the situation and that makes it OK? So it's alright to be a snitch (to reduce your own sentence) as long as you are a liar too. I hope you never get caught doing anything because you are a cop's best friend. You'll roll on anyone to save your own ass. You have obviously missed EVERY bit of advice posted here. Please re-read and have someone explain the big words for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by grow4doughyou either misinterpreted what i said or you're a bit slow. if you have a legal document in front of you saying that if you give up your source then you'll get a reduced sentence, you take it and lie. whats the point of staying strong and not ratting if ratting doesnt affect anything? and i wasnt saying you shouldnt name uk-t because of how elite it was or some bullshit, i was in uk-t and nobody in there that i knew of had that attitude. im saying that if you name a huge place like mininova or torrentleech then you're just giving them information they already have and they clearly cant shut down places like those or they would have done it already, uk-t or any other small site on the other hand will and rightfully should close down shop if they are being investigated by the police. in this case saying "i got my dvd's from mininova" wouldn't change a thing except get you a reduced sentence, if you dont take that deal you're a fucking moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Dude, check your ETHICS. :angry:
sometimes, fear is stronger than ethic.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
years ago, i got caught 6 months after stealing "some stuff" with an acquaintance.
the cops prompted me to say it was all his fault and that i was just an impressionnable partner in order to sentence him and to reduce my responsibility - it was far from being his first offense if you know what i mean.
well, i've been interrogated 4 times: first, they tried to be friendly as possible with me but the situation has quickly escalated and they tried to hurt me (they even beat me on the face repeatedly) but i was strong enough not to crack under the pressure.
i didn't crack but honestly, i couldn't blame someone who can't resist to such an agression. in this kind of situation it's not a matter of ethic anymore but it's a matter of character.
No offense but that's just internet talk, not real at all. As far as my friends and family go, I would kill for them. But fuck the rest. Naming a site like thepiratebay or any other known site would be a courtesy because they have smart staff who wouldn't be affected by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Thanks for the story, cine. I will admit that things are different (softer) in the US, Canada, and elsewhere. I might have a bit more sympathy for those who break under real pressure or physical duress. And you are certainly right about character being involved. I think it can even be said that ethic is a sub-set of character.Quote:
Originally Posted by cinephiliasometimes, fear is stronger than ethic.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
years ago, i got caught 6 months after stealing "some stuff" with an acquaintance.
the cops prompted me to say it was all his fault and that i was just an impressionnable partner in order to sentence him and to reduce my responsibility - it was far from being his first offense if you know what i mean.
well, i've been interrogated 4 times: first, they tried to be friendly as possible with me but the situation has quickly escalated and they tried to hurt me (they even beat me on the face repeatedly) but i was strong enough not to crack under the pressure.
i didn't crack but honestly, i couldn't blame someone who can't resist to such an agression. in this kind of situation it's not a matter of ethic anymore but it's a matter of character.
Either way, you are the kind of guy I can trust. Someone who understands friendship, and not hanging others out to pay for your crimes and your "word".
I find it very upsetting to read posts of people who are not even under any kind of duress already justifying how they would turn on someone else. I think it is pretty easy to sort those people out in this thread.
Edit- to Benjamin. No, it isn't just "internet talk". Several of us have at one, or more, times faced jail time and cops. We did not turn on our friends and we did not lie about anyone else. I'm sure your family appreciates that you would be "unethical" in their name, but I am certain they would not think too highly of someone who lied about you to reduce his/her sentence. What you think is a good idea at the time opens you up for some serious retaliation later. Nobody protects a "rat".
Anyway, just throwing out some ideas that you probably have not had to deal with. Hopefully you never will. :)
I was talking about snitching on people outside of friends and family, as you clearly stated you shouldn't rat ANYONE out. I am sure the person who named UK-T was sent straight to witness protection to prevent the violent retaliation of staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
well I think the first thing here is how you define friends...for some people, friends are only those they hang-out with everyday, see face to face and so on...i.e. not just "internet friends"Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminNo offense but that's just internet talk, not real at all. As far as my friends and family go, I would kill for them. But fuck the rest. Naming a site like thepiratebay or any other known site would be a courtesy because they have smart staff who wouldn't be affected by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
well for me (and I'm sure I speak for many others) I have friends I have never met online (or perhaps just once or twice) who I would rate just as well...I would def. care for them and would do all I can to make sure they don't face any harm as a result of my actions and most def. would absolutely never "rat" on them
clearly this guy didn't see UK-T (or any of its members) under the same light...but really, in such cases, such a person shouldn't even be on the site - let alone being able to cheat on the site and its other users - who genuinely cared about the site (and for each other)
that's just my opinion though
I seriously meant nobody. TPB, Jimmy Hoffa, Mother Teresa, The Easter Bunny, et al. You simply do not say anyone's name. Even if they are already under suspicion/surveillance/arrest, or on death row. I do not know how to make this much clearer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
x=person, persons, or organization
Do not rat on "x". Period. Ever.
y=circumstances
Do not rat on x, even if y. Period. Ever.
I have mixed feelings. On one hand, the supposed rat involved himself in mo money mo problems, which makes him a loon who violates the tenants of the community at large, and thus is properly labeled a c***sucker.
On the other hand, he got in somehow, so does that mean I have to grudge against that person who invited him, or the person that invited them? Was it lack of discretion by omission or commission?
Basically, the guy put a lot of good people at risk, and that makes me madder than the tracker going down. Whether or not you buy into the community aspect, there is a warm body on the other end of every bit you download, and he put each of us in jeopardy through cowardice and avarice. That, I can not abide.
If I am facing major time and I have my lawyer conduct a reduced sentence deal that involves me ratting someone I don't care about, you know what me and everyone who is real would do. It's obvious you're all talk trying to be an e-thug or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabytemeI seriously meant nobody. TPB, Jimmy Hoffa, Mother Teresa, The Easter Bunny, et al. You simply do not say anyone's name. Even if they are already under suspicion/surveillance/arrest, or on death row. I do not know how to make this much clearer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
x=person, persons, or organization
Do not rat on "x". Period. Ever.
y=circumstances
Do not rat on x, even if y. Period. Ever.
No. I am trying to get through to you that you would not want to be sitting in a cell because someone lied about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
You've never been arrested and you have already decided to roll over... You think that is respectable? Will actually benefit you and your family?
Feel free to read my previous posts. I'm not a thug, e- or otherwise. Actually, I am a grad student earning a MA in Communications. A significant amount of my studies have revolved around philosophy. I've spent far more time reading about and discussing ethics than I care to remember.
I was also not the best behaved teen you will ever come across. I have spent time with the court system. I am typically very effective in defending myself in front of a judge. A background in philosophy is VERY helpful if you ever have to do so. :)
Rolling over on someone is a punk thing to do. And I can almost guarantee that you will not get to just walk away and live your life while someone else sits in jail. You roll on someone, you will find your name mentioned next time someone else needs to make a deal. You screw someone over like that and your name will get spread around.
If you got screwed over, wouldn't you try to get back at them?
True sad storry. sorry for all of you UK-T members..
will hope one day you will raise again in some form or another :yup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by megabytemeNo. I am trying to get through to you that you would not want to be sitting in a cell because someone lied about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
You've never been arrested and you have already decided to roll over... You think that is respectable? Will actually benefit you and your family?
Feel free to read my previous posts. I'm not a thug, e- or otherwise. Actually, I am a grad student earning a MA in Communications. A significant amount of my studies have revolved around philosophy. I've spent far more time reading about and discussing ethics than I care to remember.
I was also not the best behaved teen you will ever come across. I have spent time with the court system. I am typically very effective in defending myself in front of a judge. A background in philosophy is VERY helpful if you ever have to do so. :)
Rolling over on someone is a punk thing to do. And I can almost guarantee that you will not get to just walk away and live your life while someone else sits in jail. You roll on someone, you will find your name mentioned next time someone else needs to make a deal. You screw someone over like that and your name will get spread around.
If you got screwed over, wouldn't you try to get back at them?
I would never put myself in a situation where somebody could snitch on me. I never said anything about lying. Thanks for assuming I haven't been arrested though. Nobody cares about being respectable when it comes to staying out of prison. I understand though, philosophy is usually all ideas/theories and is almost never applicable to the real world. So I apologize for calling you an e-thug, the correct name would be philosopher. As for retaliation, there are hundreds of ways to avoid that.
This
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I'm not suggesting I know anything at all about this specific issue, and till now whether there was or not a person and this particular event brought down the site should clearly be considered - at this point - speculative.
What is interesting, however, are the two main themes arising: 'what would you do if' and 'if that happened to me i would do...' (more emphasis on the latter I should add). What drew me to post is on that basis.
Imho, it is very difficult to judge another's actions unless you know the full circumstances surrounding it. Armchair quarterbacking is such a luxury, and not as congruent as we would like to think if ever you or I happened to be in that same situation.
Those who have been under the hot lights hinted at this, and I consider their thoughts far more than someone who is just speculating at what they would do if in a similar situation. But experience aside, no two persons situations are the same.
The possibility of a fine/criminal charges can have little or great meaning to someone depending upon their personal circumstances. How much someone has to lose is often the barometer to what actions and choices we will follow.
The techniques of police interrogation should not be under regarded: Fear, and isolation, basic human nature and the blowback on how someone will react to the possibility of criminal charges/fines/possibility of imprisonment makes for a powerful combination which can shape our actions in a manner that can go completely against what we thought we would do when all we had was the luxury of speculation.
If a crim charge/fine meant that a person's life path which they are close to entering or completing would go for a massive flush, who among us are prepared to throw away something so central to the life we want for ourselves. For some jobs, having a crim record period, slams shut doors. For others, it would mean conflict within the family that they aren't prepared to risk, or stir up.
Enough of my drawn out explanation. Point is made.
and you never disappoint :PQuote:
Originally Posted by kallieb
I fully agree with you that context is indeed everything.Its kinda injudicious for anyone to suggest that ethics should pulverize all else regardless of corollary.
So you have been arrested AND you are decided to snitch on someone in case it happens again. Thanks for clarifying that.:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
Philosophy is very effective in staying out of jail. You don't screw anyone over (for one) and if you are up against a judge, you can make reasonable arguments as to why you are not a scumbag. It works pretty good.
Best of luck in you continued efforts to "avoid retaliation". :lol::lol::lol:
Some of us don't have to constantly look over our shoulders AND if we happen across a mirror, we can stand to look in it. How's that for you?
At first, I thought you were just a naive kid and was trying to teach you how to be a man. Now you have convinced me that you are a low-life. Nice job! At least you are doing a GREAT job of showing everyone how a rat justifies its existence. Or maybe you are not really a rat, just an e-rat wannabee.:lol:
If that is truly how you conduct yourself in life, I am certain you will get yours. And you will cry like a little girl when your shit comes back to you.
Edit- And I would like to remind people of my early post regarding individuals who have already gone outside of the community. I mentioned that selling pirated DVDs makes one a non-community member.
Ethics are most important BEFORE getting yourself into serious trouble. Screwing someone else over to save your own ass is seriously messed up. Yes, there is context. IMO, you have already made your bed when you have gotten to the point where you are given the choice to "rat" on someone. I hope that some people uphold some integrity when faced with situations that have great affect on others.
I am actually quite startled by those who see being the conduit for someone else's misery acceptable.
Edit2- Granted, there is a lot of stuff in philosophy that may, or may not be, usable. Logic, ethics, and existentialism are all very valuable! I've mentioned before that I have gotten more of my "bigger questions" answered in communications than I did in philosophy. However, this is one situation where all of the BS gets set aside. You have put yourself in a bad situation. In order to get out of the situation, you become DIRECTLY responsible for putting someone in a worse position than you currently are. If that is the case, all of those things that make you think you are a decent, kind person are all SHIT.
I get into a lot of discussions around here and TBH, most of them are really just academic time killers. This is one that seriously bothers me. I am very disappointed at the "quality" of the community members who are already decided that they will fuck anyone over to save their own skin. :sick:
actually, i didn't use the right word. i've been slapped, not "beaten" (there's a big difference). sorry :blushing:Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
That's alright, cine. It sounds like a lot of westerners get weak when faced with bright lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by cinephiliaactually, i didn't use the right word. i've been slapped, not "beaten" (there's a big difference). sorry :blushing:Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
From the posts here, I think a slap might kill some of these people. If not, it would at least get them to turn on anyone they ever met.
All things said, you are the kind of guy I would want as a RL friend. Frankly, many of the other posters are making me sick right now. :dry:
Gawd, I hope that they are in a minority and the honorable ones are just keeping quiet. Now that I think about it, that WOULD be in character for them, wouldn't it? :happy:
Edit- So what people who are "thinking about reality" (from posts above) are really saying...
"I'll be your friend- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be honest- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be trustworthy- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be brave- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll think of others- as long as there is no real cost to me."
"I'll be responsible for my own actions- as long as there is no real cost to me."
I'm sure there are more, but it is a good start.
I never clarified anything to you. We were having a debate over what to do in a given situation, and suddenly ... you stated that I have never been arrested. I said you were assuming things. You read my response and now according to you I have been arrested and plan to snitch the next time it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
In reality, I never told you whether or not I have been arrested, it's just you guessing information.
People here are talking about real situations. All you are doing is preaching philosophy values that are not practical in the world. Does it make you feel special or something? By the way, I highly recommend you get a real lawyer to speak for you if you are ever in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
You really have a gift for random assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
At first, I thought you were just a regular FST poster expressing his opinion and I was trying to have a discussion with you. Now you have convinced me that you are a desperate dude trying anything and everything to get the upper hand in an argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
I actually think that you will be the one to cry like a little girl if you ever get into a real situation and your idealistic views fall apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
I am sure everyone here appreciates your ethical views on life. You are really down to earth and you don't just talk about things. If you say something is messed up, you are absolutely right. [/sarcasm]Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
No, it's not one of those situations. That is a situation in your fairytale land. People's facing years of prison is a real situation. But to answer your made up situation, I would be directly responsible for putting someone in a worse position. For a guy who studies philosophy, you don't seem to know much about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
One of the basic principles is "There is no right or wrong, only religion." I think I learned that in 5th grade, and you still haven't understood it.
Everyone here is telling you the same thing I am. They may be not be as direct as I am, but they feel the same way about the situation. You are just delusional.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Benjamin,
I'll just leave what I said and you can leave what you said. You did say something, right? Because you seem to have never said things one way or another...yet you are more direct than most people. Anyway, you defined yourself as someone will roll over on others. I have been arguing that is never acceptable. You can pick and choose- and I expect your tolerance for onus is very limited.
You feel it is acceptable to let someone else do your time if it will save your ass. That makes you a piece of shit in my book. Sorry I mistook you for a decent kid earlier. I also am sorry for anyone who gets fucked over by you because you feel that it is "OK, situationally".
I seriously hope that those who haven't had the "pleasure" of getting to know your stance on the topic get as far from you as possible. To know you is to potentially get fucked over by you.
People can reread the thread to see if they agree with me.
Every single person who has heard my stance on this topic has completely agreed with me except you. I am man enough to admit what my real action would be under different situations, I don't hide myself behind fake ethical talk like you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
I can honestly say I am happy I do not know you. I would hate to be anywhere near you when you needed someone to pay for something you have done.
Good riddance. And no, I'm not the only one who feels this way.
BTW, it's cute how you jumped on the philosophy thing. It's one part of my life, its one part of my education.
Are you legit dude? To be honest, you seem messed up somehow like this whole time you didn't understand what I was saying and you only respond to my arguments with things like "you rat" and "glad I don't know you". Are you just slow in the head or do you have some other issue? I mean I can barely make sense of some of your posts, even your RIAA signature doesn't make any sense. I thought maybe it's a language difference but you are from the US obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Talking to you has been entirely pointless. You simply cannot understand why it is unacceptable to fuck someone else over to save your own skin. I can only hope others will treat you with the same disregard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I do my best to screen people like you out of my life.:dry:
lol ummm sweet lemonadeQuote:
Originally Posted by TrollinThunder
You simply cannot understand why it is unacceptable to download someone else's work for free to save your own wallet.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
I'm a little confused, maybe what you said appears to be off topic... does this mean you are against file sharing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I download other people's work all the time to watch movies etc and to save my own pocket?
Doesn't anyone else do this too? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, and if so, I apologise...
I'm just pointing out that he's a hypocrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnsyI'm a little confused, maybe what you said appears to be off topic... does this mean you are against file sharing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I download other people's work all the time to watch movies etc and to save my own pocket?
Doesn't anyone else do this too? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, and if so, I apologise...
Oh right, I appear to have missed the point entirely :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I'll return back into my box :D Wake me up in spring :lol:
How does that follow? No offense, but abstention from responding is not inherently approval. In my personal experience, I have found myself in that situation when I was younger. Instead of ratting out the people the police wanted me to rat out, I TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY OWN ACTIONS. I did a healthy bit of county jail time in fact and about 10x what they offered me for a plea bargain. I thank the stars I got that out of the way when I was young enough to escape prison time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin
I will give you props for admitting to yourself that you lack the moral fiber to own up to your own mistakes, but as we are not talking about family matters, but criminal matters, it's moot that you would kill for your family. Honestly, most people would say the same thing about family. It is quite presumptuous though to presume that the vast majority that you imply would also just as freely and without thought snitch on someone else to save their own ass. It is the ultimate betrayal and abhorrent in virtually every culture. You have to wonder why that is don't you?
lol who buys pirated DVD's these days? You can just download them for free...