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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
For Chris.. sake. You are still picking out the parts that suit you. There is nobody arguing about your interpretation of religion. We are just saying that there are others.:)
Please excuse any typing errors. It is old age(The keyboard I mean) My birthday is due in about 10 weeks.:whistling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation
What about the Moonies. They have a God.
There are hundreds of different religions in this world. Each one thinks that they are the right one. They can't all be correct, then again it is possible that they could all be wrong.
Every person should be left to their own beliefs. If you don't agree with this and interfere with others beliefs then you must be willing to take the flak that will ensue.
Don't know about the moonies but if they have a god they are not atheist (if that is what u r saying). I don't care what you believe. You are entitled to live your life the way u want. You can believe cows lay eggs if you want. That doesn't make it true. You can believe atheism is a religion if that makes u feel better, but that doesn't make it true.
Theirs is a self ordained God Sun Myung Moon.
Moonie (plural Moonies) is a term which refers to members of the Unification Church; it is derived from the name of church founder. for some reason or other it is defined as a cult. I thought all religions were cults. I know we wear cults(Sorry Kev:))
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Yeah, wouldn't all religions be classified as cults? I've never understood the derogatory use of the term cult.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
cult (k¾lt) n. 1.a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. b. The followers of such a religion or sect. 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. 5.a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. b. The object of such devotion. 6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest. --attributive. Often used to modify another noun: a cult figure; cult films. [Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate.
American Heritage Dictionary
Depends who wrote the dictionary.:whistling A lot of religions burnt any book(or person) that did not agree with their particular doctrine. I suppose this was one way to say 'our word is the truth'.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
You say Atheist don't believe because they have no proof, however an Atheist can believe in men from mars without proof.
Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation
Again you appear to have missed the point.
An Atheist cannot believe in God and still be an Atheist, I'll take a leap and assume we both agree on that.
You said Atheist don't believe in God because there is no proof of his existence. You said that they trust in science and God has not been proven scientifically (words to that effect).
The point is about the scientific part of your statement being the essential reasoning. An Atheist can ("can" doesn't mean "does") believe in men from Mars despite there being no scientific evidence or proof and still be an Atheist. Ergo belief, trust or faith in scientific theory is irrelevant to being an Atheist.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Proof please. Talk about guesswork and speculation
Again you appear to have missed the point.
An Atheist cannot believe in God and still be an Atheist, I'll take a leap and assume we both agree on that.
You said Atheist don't believe in God because there is no proof of his existence. You said that they trust in science and God has not been proven scientifically (words to that effect).
The point is about the scientific part of your statement being the essential reasoning. An Atheist
can ("can" doesn't mean "does") believe in men from Mars despite there being no scientific evidence or proof and still be an Atheist. Ergo belief, trust or faith in scientific theory is irrelevant to being an Atheist.
Again, proof, or at least a better explanation. You made something up off the top of your head! We can deal in hypothetical all day, the point is atheist don't believe in god b/c there is no proof.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
So then:
What sort of "proof" is required in order to refer to, well, any endeavor (not involving a deity) as one a person might be said to pursue with a "religious fervor"?
Or have you single-handedly stricken that from the previously available list of adjectival stuffs.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
Again you appear to have missed the point.
An Atheist cannot believe in God and still be an Atheist, I'll take a leap and assume we both agree on that.
You said Atheist don't believe in God because there is no proof of his existence. You said that they trust in science and God has not been proven scientifically (words to that effect).
The point is about the scientific part of your statement being the essential reasoning. An Atheist can ("can" doesn't mean "does") believe in men from Mars despite there being no scientific evidence or proof and still be an Atheist. Ergo belief, trust or faith in scientific theory is irrelevant to being an Atheist.
Again, proof, or at least a better explanation. You made something up off the top of your head! We can deal in hypothetical all day, the point is atheist don't believe in god b/c there is no proof.
A proper atheist believes there is no God. And that's pretty much the definition of what some people call a strong atheist.
An agnostic thinks we can't be sure whether there's a God or not, since there's no proof either way.
Sometimes agnostics are described as weak atheists, but that's pretty much misleading and a bit insulting to agnostics, since people who label themselves atheists tend to be a pack of morons who sit around in discussion groups on the internet discussing counter-arguments to people arguing there's a God and whatnot, and they hardly bring very good arguments for anything related to theism, either. Agnostics, on the other hand, tend to have at least tried to think things through, and they don't generally go around going 'hurf blurf, I'm an agnostic' or try and turn discussions about religion into arguments about whether there's a God.
In short, there's very little difference between internets-atheists and internets-preachers, and neither group seems to have thought things through.
Here, go read wikipedia.
Incidentally, that article says that some Buddhists are sometimes referred to as atheists. This would be because they have a religion that excludes the existance of a God.
EDit:
In some respects that moron who wrote the OP's article is a poster-child for the kind of atheism I don't like. He both claims that the majority of the science world is atheist ('nor wound [sic] the majority of the science world') and manages to imply that to follow a religion, everyone has to follow it exactly the same.
And to top it off, I'm getting the impression he's gone onto a site where he expects that the people reading it don't subscribe to his particular brand of nonsense, so he's probably trying to preach a bit.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Again, proof, or at least a better explanation. You made something up off the top of your head! We can deal in hypothetical all day, the point is atheist don't believe in god b/c there is no proof.
A proper atheist
believes there is no God. And that's pretty much the definition of what some people call a
strong atheist.
An agnostic thinks we can't be sure whether there's a God or not, since there's no proof either way.
Sometimes agnostics are described as
weak atheists, but that's pretty much misleading and a bit insulting to agnostics, since people who label themselves atheists tend to be a pack of morons who sit around in discussion groups on the internet discussing counter-arguments to people arguing there's a God and whatnot, and they hardly bring very good arguments for anything related to theism, either. Agnostics, on the other hand, tend to have at least tried to think things through, and they don't generally go around going 'hurf blurf, I'm an agnostic' or try and turn discussions about religion into arguments about whether there's a God.
In short, there's very little difference between internets-atheists and internets-preachers, and neither group seems to have thought things through.
Here, go read wikipedia.
Incidentally, that article says that some Buddhists are sometimes referred to as atheists. This would be because they have a religion that excludes the existance of a God.
EDit:
In some respects that moron who wrote the OP's article is a poster-child for the kind of atheism I don't like. He both claims that the majority of the science world is atheist ('nor wound [sic] the majority of the science world') and manages to imply that to follow a religion, everyone has to follow it exactly the same.
And to top it off, I'm getting the impression he's gone onto a site where he expects that the people reading it don't subscribe to his particular brand of nonsense, so he's probably trying to preach a bit.
Huh?
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Re: Atheists and christmas
tl;dr version:
Your definition of what an atheist is is lacking and a bit off, what you're describing wrt not believing because there's no proof sounds more like agnosticism*. Your idea of what a religion is isn't entirely on target either.
And on a personal note, I consider most people who fancy themselves Atheists, especially on the internet, to be morons.
You really shouldn't ask for an explanation if you aren't able to read all the big words.
EDit:
Going 'there is no God', as a 'strong' (:dabs:) atheist would is as much an expression of a belief system as saying the opposite. And it really takes just one person to start a religion, while there's lots of them with the same beliefs, discussing those same beliefs on the internet, getting organised (and borrowing the same traditions, now), in this case.
*Some people, mainly in the atheist department, would say that you can be both religious and agnostic, or atheist and agnostic, but I disagree, as I consider agnosticism the absence of belief, in this instance, whereas the other two aren't.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Snee
I find your argument interesting, however in my personal view religion would require worship of some manner. Lacking an object of worship, be it a spiritual deity or an actual object like the sun or nature, in my mind Atheist gathering to discuss their non belief would be more akin to a book club or a political party.
Do you only consider most Atheist that discuss their views online morons or do you extend the label to people that believe in a God that push their beliefs?
I find that most people that try to debate the merits of a belief system other than their own tend to make bad arguments because they don't understand the other side or just lack enough knowledge to not make false assumptions.
A Christian explaining his beliefs makes a coherent argument. A Christian trying to explain why Islam, Buddhism or Atheism is incorrect usually makes a fool of himself. Part of it being because he usually couldn't do so without referring to his own religion as the proof. The same would apply to an Atheist.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
tl;dr version:
Your definition of what an atheist is is lacking and a bit off, what you're describing wrt not believing because there's no proof sounds more like agnosticism*. Your idea of what a religion is isn't entirely on target either.
And on a personal note, I consider most people who fancy themselves Atheists, especially on the internet, to be morons.
You really shouldn't ask for an explanation if you aren't able to read all the big words.
EDit:
Going 'there is no God', as a 'strong' (:dabs:) atheist would is as much an expression of a belief system as saying the opposite. And it really takes just one person to start a religion, while there's lots of them with the same beliefs, discussing those same beliefs on the internet, getting organised (and borrowing the same traditions, now), in this case.
*Some people, mainly in the atheist department, would say that you can be both religious and agnostic, or atheist and agnostic, but I disagree, as I consider agnosticism the absence of belief, in this instance, whereas the other two aren't.
good thing i'm not atheist, i guess. and no need for simplification. just sounded like u were talking out of your ass. in any case, i did not define religion, i let websters do it for me. nice try professor snee, p.h.d.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
A Christian explaining his beliefs makes a coherent argument. A Christian trying to explain why Islam, Buddhism or Atheism is incorrect usually makes a fool of himself. Part of it being because he usually couldn't do so without referring to his own religion as the proof. The same would apply to an Atheist.
how would that apply to an atheiest? he has no religion?
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
A Christian explaining his beliefs makes a coherent argument. A Christian trying to explain why Islam, Buddhism or Atheism is incorrect usually makes a fool of himself. Part of it being because he usually couldn't do so without referring to his own religion as the proof. The same would apply to an Atheist.
how would that apply to an atheiest? he has no religion?
Religion does not just pertain to deities.:) I thought that we covered all this earlier.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
Snee
I find your argument interesting, however in my personal view religion would require worship of some manner. Lacking an object of worship, be it a spiritual deity or an actual object like the sun or nature, in my mind Atheist gathering to discuss their non belief would be more akin to a book club or a political party.
First of all, I don't really consider there to be a difference between the statements 'I don't believe in God' and 'I believe there isn't a God', so I'd not call atheism in and of itself non-belief.
I consider the concept of a God or other item of religious significance a point of reference towards which people aim certain beliefs, if that makes sense.
As for worship, that's a trickier one. Does overly trusting what current science has uncovered count as worship?
I'll concede that atheists I've run into haven't always seemed to have replaced a deity with science, but there's always a certain measure of faith in a kind of pseudo-logic, ie: 'There is no God because no one has proven it. And if it isn't proven, it isn't real, and besides, the burden of proof is on you, since you made the positive statement. And there's no empirical data to suggest there's a God' and so forth, totally diregarding things like the fact that some people have been claiming they've talked to God (second hand empirical data, albeit unreliable, and nothing I personally put much stock in), or that cultures everywhere have come up with the concept, seemingly independently, at times (might be a Jungian archetype, I suppose), or that calculating the probability of the existance an extremely non-specific beard in the sky is a whole other matter than, say, calculating the probability of there being a santa (for whom we have a highly specific description, and even a location to start looking).
Reasoning like that, and rejecting or ignoring anything not fitting into one's worldview is a downright fundamentalist religious trait.
Quote:
Do you only consider most Atheist that discuss their views online morons or do you extend the label to people that believe in a God that push their beliefs?
Basically it's to do with a certain mode of reasoning as well as taking offense over that others believe in something they don't think exists. I've got the same quarrel with either side on that account, really, the caring so much about what the other side thinks that it becomes an insult that the belief even exists. People not being logical and/or starting arguments over something that really doesn't matter since they can't possibly know whether it's there, while it being so inconsequential rubs me the wrong way.
Yon evangelical internet-atheists tend to deliver some right humdingers by way of leaps of logic, though, especially with regards to 'the burden of proof', which has gotten really popular as of late, despite claiming to be the more enlightened and scientifically minded.
Quote:
I find that most people that try to debate the merits of a belief system other than their own tend to make bad arguments because they don't understand the other side or just lack enough knowledge to not make false assumptions.
A Christian explaining his beliefs makes a coherent argument. A Christian trying to explain why Islam, Buddhism or Atheism is incorrect usually makes a fool of himself. Part of it being because he usually couldn't do so without referring to his own religion as the proof. The same would apply to an Atheist.
True, and I won't argue the point, other than to say a lot of the self-proclaimed atheist people I've had the displeasure of running into seem to have a focus on a specific religion, making certain claims about what religion is that are very much tied to christianity, in particular.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
tl;dr version:
Your definition of what an atheist is is lacking and a bit off, what you're describing wrt not believing because there's no proof sounds more like agnosticism*. Your idea of what a religion is isn't entirely on target either.
And on a personal note, I consider most people who fancy themselves Atheists, especially on the internet, to be morons.
You really shouldn't ask for an explanation if you aren't able to read all the big words.
EDit:
Going 'there is no God', as a 'strong' (:dabs:) atheist would is as much an expression of a belief system as saying the opposite. And it really takes just one person to start a religion, while there's lots of them with the same beliefs, discussing those same beliefs on the internet, getting organised (and borrowing the same traditions, now), in this case.
*Some people, mainly in the atheist department, would say that you can be both religious and agnostic, or atheist and agnostic, but I disagree, as I consider agnosticism the absence of belief, in this instance, whereas the other two aren't.
good thing i'm not atheist, i guess. and no need for simplification. just sounded like u were talking out of your ass. in any case, i did not define religion, i let websters do it for me. nice try professor snee, p.h.d.
Either Webster's definition is incomplete, or you didn't read all of it, then, captain tard.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1971:
Religion: 1. the personal commitment to and serving of God or a god with worshipful devotion, conduct in accord with divine commands esp. as found in accepted sacred writings or declared by authoritative teachers, a way of life recognized as incumbent on true believers and typically the relating of oneself to an organized body of believers,
2. the state of a religious,
3a. one of the systems of religious faith and worship, 3b. the body of institutionalized expressions of sacred beliefs, observances and social practices found within a given cultural context,
4. the profession or practice of religious beliefs,
5. archaic, scrupulous conformity,
6a. a personal awareness or conviction of the existence of a supreme being or of supernatural powers or influences controlling one’s own, humanity’s, or all nature’s destiny,
7a. a cause, principle, system of tenets held with ardor, devotion, conscientiousness and faith, a value held to be of supreme importance,
7b. a quality, condition, custom, or thing inspiring zealous devotion, conscientious maintenance, and cherishing.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1971:
Religion: 1. the personal commitment to and serving of God or a god with worshipful devotion, conduct in accord with divine commands esp. as found in accepted sacred writings or declared by authoritative teachers, a way of life recognized as incumbent on true believers and typically the relating of oneself to an organized body of believers,
2. the state of a religious,
3a. one of the systems of religious faith and worship, 3b. the body of institutionalized expressions of sacred beliefs, observances and social practices found within a given cultural context,
4. the profession or practice of religious beliefs,
5. archaic, scrupulous conformity,
6a. a personal awareness or conviction of the existence of a supreme being or of supernatural powers or influences controlling one’s own, humanity’s, or all nature’s destiny,
7a. a cause, principle, system of tenets held with ardor, devotion, conscientiousness and faith, a value held to be of supreme importance,
7b. a quality, condition, custom, or thing inspiring zealous devotion, conscientious maintenance, and cherishing.
I'm going with 'didn't read all of it', then.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1971:
Religion: 1. the personal commitment to and serving of God or a god with worshipful devotion, conduct in accord with divine commands esp. as found in accepted sacred writings or declared by authoritative teachers, a way of life recognized as incumbent on true believers and typically the relating of oneself to an organized body of believers,
2. the state of a religious,
3a. one of the systems of religious faith and worship, 3b. the body of institutionalized expressions of sacred beliefs, observances and social practices found within a given cultural context,
4. the profession or practice of religious beliefs,
5. archaic, scrupulous conformity,
6a. a personal awareness or conviction of the existence of a supreme being or of supernatural powers or influences controlling one’s own, humanity’s, or all nature’s destiny,
7a. a cause, principle, system of tenets held with ardor, devotion, conscientiousness and faith, a value held to be of supreme importance,
7b. a quality, condition, custom, or thing inspiring zealous devotion, conscientious maintenance, and cherishing.
I'm going with 'didn't read all of it', then.
yeah, u sure didn't read all of it b/c atheism does fit anything u highlighted, especially if u read the rest of the description. if atheism is a religion i guess football in texas is religion too. nice try dr. snee, maybe next time!
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
As for worship, that's a trickier one. Does overly trusting what current science has uncovered count as worship?
I guess in certain cases the argument could be made for that one. On the other hand a true follower of science would be one that constantly challenges set theory. Scientists get their rocks of discovering new reality. Could you imagine the hard on a scientist would get if he could prove the existence of God. Scientists challenge evolution. The difference is that they do so in a scientific manner, which would preclude religious theory based on "what is written". This is where so many people find offense.
My personal experience of the drive to class Atheism as religion more often than not seems to be a desire to offend Atheists. I admit I don't know that many but my experience of Atheists is that they just go through their day not believing and not trying to convince others to join them. I've only found out that these people have no religion when they have made a simple response to someone evangelizing them. Once the non belief was out then the ensuing "conversation" was led by the believers unwillingness to just accept a "leave me alone". I probably know a lot of non believers, I just don't know they are. Not once in my life has an Atheist come up to me to tell me there is no God.
The Internet may be a different matter. It's a place where for the most part one can safely speak with anonymity so not risk of real life harassment. Virtual harassment may occur, but you can end that by not visiting that site. The online debates I have wandered into haven't really been about is there or isn't there a God. They have been about someone being pissed off because a certain group of theocratic zealots are trying to force their religious dogma onto them. Examples would be bible classes or mandatory prayer in schools. Teaching creationism in science classes or wanting laws denying Homosexuals (insert anything here) because the bible says homosexuality is a sin. The list goes on. Now the examples I gave were Christian V Atheist based. This is because in my part of the world that's the experience. I'm pretty sure if I lived in a hardcore Islamic country there would be even less tolerance.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
I'm going with 'didn't read all of it', then.
yeah, u sure didn't read all of it b/c atheism does fit anything u highlighted, especially if u read the rest of the description. if atheism is a religion i guess football in texas is religion too. nice try dr. snee, maybe next time!
Yeah, 'cept I didn't highlight that.
And for fuck's sake, those a's, b's, and c's, and so forth are alternative definitions. It's kind of how a dictionary works.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
The Internet may be a different matter.
Yep.
Thing is that I'd wager I live in a country far more secular than yours (I'm assuming you're an anglo of some sort), and the regular response if you'd ask people I spend time with here whether they believe in God would be either a vague 'well, I believe there's something...' or 'meh'. None of them have labeled themselves an atheist, either. Well, there was this one guy. He was really into Chomsky or something. We may have atheists here, but no one not religious cares much about the supernatural, other than it being a neat story.
The ones who've labeled themselves thus I've run into on the internet I can remember (chalice being the exception) have almost all said things I've found less than agreeable in threads about religion, ranging from jumping in and blaming Religion (christianity really, no one ever remembers that some religions have had virtually no ill effects on society) for everything people have done in its name, to just being very very smug about 'knowing better'.
Ran into a guy the other week who turned a discussion of spirituality into 'religion has never done anything good for us'*. And then went off about the burden of proof and all that.
When people start attaching that kind of label to themselves, I consider it a warning sign, nowadays.
EDit: For the record, I'm not belonging to any religion (except possibly my own, depending on my mood, and how drunk I am).
*Nearly forgot about his mate Mr if-you-don't-follow-everything-in-the-bible-you're-not-a-christian.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
yeah, u sure didn't read all of it b/c atheism does fit anything u highlighted, especially if u read the rest of the description. if atheism is a religion i guess football in texas is religion too. nice try dr. snee, maybe next time!
Yeah, 'cept
I didn't highlight that.
And for fuck's sake, those a's, b's, and c's, and so forth are alternative definitions. It's kind of how a dictionary works.
u might as well have highlighted it, u agreed with the guy. i guess by your lazy use and misunderstanding of the term religion, the democratic and republican parties are religions, also. wow, i guess i can make a religion out of any group of people now!
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Yeah, 'cept I didn't highlight that.
And for fuck's sake, those a's, b's, and c's, and so forth are alternative definitions. It's kind of how a dictionary works.
u might as well have highlighted it, u agreed with the guy. i guess by your lazy use and misunderstanding of the term religion, the democratic and republican parties are religions, also. wow, i guess i can make a religion out of any group of people now!
Yeah, fuck those lazy types writing the dictionaries. Lucky you know better. We can't trick you, eh, champ.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
u might as well have highlighted it, u agreed with the guy. i guess by your lazy use and misunderstanding of the term religion, the democratic and republican parties are religions, also. wow, i guess i can make a religion out of any group of people now!
Yeah, fuck those lazy types writing the dictionaries. Lucky you know better. We can't trick you, eh, champ.
can't read either can u? guess that's the root of the problem here. didn't say say i had a problem with the dictionary, just the "lazy use and misunderstanding" of it by folks who r trying to prove a point. btw, my religion is the Nazarene of Dallas Cowboys.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
The Internet may be a different matter.
Yep.
Thing is that I'd wager I live in a country far more secular than yours (I'm assuming you're an anglo of some sort), and the regular response if you'd ask people I spend time with here whether they believe in God would be either a vague 'well, I believe there's something...' or 'meh'. None of them have labeled themselves an atheist, either. Well, there was this one guy. He was really into Chomsky or something. We may have atheists here, but no one not religious cares much about the supernatural, other than it being a neat story.
The ones who've labeled themselves thus I've run into on the internet I can remember (chalice being the exception) have almost all said things I've found less than agreeable in threads about religion, ranging from jumping in and blaming Religion (christianity really, no one ever remembers that some religions have had virtually no ill effects on society) for everything people have done in its name, to just being very very smug about 'knowing better'.
Ran into a guy the other week who turned a discussion of spirituality into 'religion has never done andthing good for us'*. And then went off about the burden of proof and all that.
When people start attaching that kind of label to themselves, I consider it a warning sign, nowadays.
EDit: For the record, I'm not belonging to any religion (except possibly my own, depending on my mood, and how drunk I am).
*Nearly forgot about his mate Mr if-you-don't-follow-everything-in-the-bible-you're-not-a-christian.
There' be alota long words in there missy and I'm naught but a humble Texan :yup:
My observation of the "debates" ongoing are that while both sides, and I say sides to only include the zealots, are offended by the spiritual or lack of belief of the other side, the actual fight is political and not about faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
*Nearly forgot about his mate Mr if-you-don't-follow-everything-in-the-bible-you're-not-a-christian.
Can't say I know anyone that follows EVERYTHING in the bible Nobody wants to stone women to death for not being virgins on their wedding night (as far as I know :unsure:), but I know plenty of the kind you are probably talking about "not the Christianity I know from MY bible" and to be honest I find their thinking offensive. They really came out of the woodwork during and since the presidential election.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Yeah, fuck those lazy types writing the dictionaries. Lucky you know better. We can't trick you, eh, champ.
can't read either can u? guess that's the root of the problem here. didn't say say i had a problem with the dictionary, just the "lazy use and misunderstanding" of it by folks who r trying to prove a point. btw, my religion is the Nazarene of Dallas Cowboys.
You're arguing with the dictionary definition you yourself cited. There's really nothing else to say here.
:glag:
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
There' be alota long words in there missy and I'm naught but a humble Texan
:eyebrows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
*Nearly forgot about his mate Mr if-you-don't-follow-everything-in-the-bible-you're-not-a-christian.
Can't say I know anyone that follows EVERYTHING in the bible Nobody wants to stone women to death for not being virgins on their wedding night (as far as I know :unsure:), but I know plenty of the kind you are probably talking about "not the Christianity I know from MY bible" and to be honest I find their thinking offensive. They really came out of the woodwork during and since the presidential election.
I agree it's bad when christians do it, but this guy was a self-proclaimed atheist, putting someone else down for downloading stuff (ie 'stealing' :rolleyes:) whilst mentioning they were christian.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
i wonder what grade i'd get if i put a couple of these :p and few :o in my eng. lit. paper. Aw shucks, who am i kiddin', i'm just lil ol' texan.
again, no issue w/ the dictionary, just the folks who misuse it to prove a point. ok, let me break it down in ruska or rusky or what ever language:
atheism /= a cause... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a principle... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a system of tenets... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a quality,custom or thing, blah, blah... just folks who don't believe in god
u lose again.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
I agree it's bad when christians do it, but this guy was a self-proclaimed atheist, putting someone else down for downloading stuff (ie 'stealing' :rolleyes:) whilst mentioning they were christian.
Ah I misunderstood, you were talking about a non believer making the statement. Go ahead, make a dismissive remark about me being Texan, if it helps you feel superior :P
Not being privy to the incident I can't really comment other than to say while the statement was IMO incorrect as you don't have to be without sin, you simply need to accept Jesus as your savior to be a Christian, I'm sure someone will argue that point but it's my raising, I don't see pointing out the breaking of the commandments as controversial if the discussion was was about religious.
I can see how the "get out clauses" and the "God does not have to prove himself" would be infuriating to anyone opposing the solidity of faith.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
i wonder what grade i'd get if i put a couple of these :p and few :o in my eng. lit. paper. Aw shucks, who am i kiddin', i'm just lil ol' texan.
again, no issue w/ the dictionary, just the folks who misuse it to prove a point. ok, let me break it down in ruska or rusky or what ever language:
atheism /= a cause... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a principle... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a system of tenets... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a quality,custom or thing, blah, blah... just folks who don't believe in god
u lose again.
Yes, I lose at the whole quote-a-dictionary-and-then-arguing-with-the-definition-from-it-and-then-claiming-everyone-else-is-wrong-and-not-the-dictionary-containing-the-definition-I'm-arguing-about contest. It might be because I'm not mad as a box of frogs. Woe is I.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
devilsadvocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
I agree it's bad when christians do it, but this guy was a self-proclaimed atheist, putting someone else down for downloading stuff (ie 'stealing' :rolleyes:) whilst mentioning they were christian.
Ah I misunderstood, you were talking about a non believer making the statement. Go ahead, make a dismissing remark about me being Texan, if it helps you feel superior :P
I've never needed an excuse before :snooty: :I'dusethatwinkingsmileyherebutitlookslikeastrokevictim:
Quote:
Not being privy to the incident I can't really comment other than to say while the statement was IMO incorrect as you don't have to be without sin, you simply need to accept Jesus as your savior to be a Christian, I'm sure someone will argue that point but it's my raising, I don't see pointing out the breaking of the commandments as controversial if the discussion was was about religious.
I believe his exact meaning was something along the line of 'everyone has to follow a religion exactly the same or else they're not following the same religion'. It's not that important, though.
Quote:
I can see how the "get out clauses" and the "God does not have to prove himself" would be infuriating to anyone opposing the solidity of faith.
I think it's funny, myself. Bit like God not having to prove he/she/it is there, and either way that'd mean people didn't have to believe, and you have to have faith to be let into heaven.
I can imagine how it might have sort of shut down any pesky church-goers who might have raised the issue, back in the day.
'You don't like it? FINE. Burn in hell.'
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
i wonder what grade i'd get if i put a couple of these :p and few :o in my eng. lit. paper. Aw shucks, who am i kiddin', i'm just lil ol' texan.
again, no issue w/ the dictionary, just the folks who misuse it to prove a point. ok, let me break it down in ruska or rusky or what ever language:
atheism /= a cause... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a principle... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a system of tenets... just folks who don't believe in god
atheism /= a quality,custom or thing, blah, blah... just folks who don't believe in god
u lose again.
Yes, I lose at the whole quote-a-dictionary-and-then-arguing-with-the-definition-from-it-and-then-claiming-everyone-else-is-wrong-and-not-the-dictionary-containing-the-definition-I'm-arguing-about contest. It might be because I'm not mad as a box of frogs. Woe is I.
yes we all understand you know how to use a hyphen. too bad u fail at rebutting anything i just laid out for ya. atheism-does-not-fit-any-of-the-criteria-in-the-definition. see what i did there? :01::naughty::shutup::whistling:rolleyes::ermm::dry:;):cool:
"ribit-ribit, hop-hop"
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
I'm going with 'didn't read all of it', then.
yeah, u sure didn't read all of it b/c atheism does fit anything u highlighted, especially if u read the rest of the description. if atheism is a religion i guess football in texas is religion too. nice try dr. snee, maybe next time!
I heard a fellow in Nashville state, 'You can always tell a Texan - NOTHING'. I now see what he meant.:whistling
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Oats is oats, the only difference is which end of the horse you look at them from
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
I heard a fellow in Nashville state, 'You can always tell a Texan - NOTHING'. I now see what he meant.:whistling
a southerner making fun of another southerner. that's funny! oh yeah, what happened to our discussion about atheism being religion? i guess this has turned into a high-jacked insults thread. too bad u aren't adding anything to the thread except spam.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
I heard a fellow in Nashville state, 'You can always tell a Texan - NOTHING'. I now see what he meant.:whistling
a southerner making fun of another southerner. that's funny! oh yeah, what happened to our discussion about atheism being religion? i guess this has turned into a high-jacked insults thread. too bad u aren't adding anything to the thread except spam.
I thought we agreed to disagree.:whistling Real, not internet, dictionaries excepted.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
a southerner making fun of another southerner. that's funny! oh yeah, what happened to our discussion about atheism being religion? i guess this has turned into a high-jacked insults thread. too bad u aren't adding anything to the thread except spam.
I thought we agreed to disagree.:whistling Real, not internet, dictionaries excepted.
when did merriam-webster's become a "fake" dictionary..lol. an didn't u quote from that "fake" dictionary. to tell u the truth, the hard-back dictionary probably not as up-to-date. oh well, says the guy that's using the internet to post on a forum!
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ugk4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
I thought we agreed to disagree.:whistling Real, not internet, dictionaries excepted.
when did merriam-webster's become a "fake" dictionary..lol. an didn't u quote from that "fake" dictionary. to tell u the truth, the hard-back dictionary probably not as up-to-date. oh well, says the guy that's using the internet to post on a forum!
A lot of dictionaries on the internet are not exact copies of the original. Even allowing for them being correct, they can be altered by the poster. I DID NOT quote from a 'fake' dictionary. I quoted from my own copy of Websters Third. Sorry about the qaulity of the pic, just took it to show that I have them. The white books are Websters Third. Yes, I agree that dictionaries can be updated. Updating does not exclude the original definition, it only adds recent usage of the words in a different context, as in Gay having a completely different meaning from the original definition. Just an example.:whistling
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...britannica.jpg
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Re: Atheists and christmas
After all that, I find myself wondering - in this age of flexo-bendy, free-floating word definitions - why anyone professing a concurrent stance of non-atheism while would go to such great lengths to deny others the opportunity to bend the word 'religion' just a wee bit in aid of free expression.
Baffling.
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Re: Atheists and christmas
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigboab
Such a shame that with that wonderful looking set of encyclopedia you failed to read up on load bearing limits for book shelves :P
