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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
I have thought about this thread for a while. And honestly, when I came here, I came here to trade. Not because I have no social skills or because I don't care about the sites I'm on, but because to me it seemed, there was no other option. Mind you this was back in 2007. Somehow by the posts I made here, I was liked by some people, who didn't trade. I didn't get my invite to where I wanted (that came later almost by accident) but I got to know lots of great people in filesharing. Since then it turned to shit, but it used to be great and relaxed. Mostly because of narrow minded staff on sites I'm sad to say.
Honestly I don't think it has anything to do with good or bad. except the good get put in the same group as the bad.
We have the people who trade the invites/accounts with just anyone = Yes IMO they are bad, because they invite just anyone, whether the already banned cheater, people who have no place there, even the ones who collect IPs etc.
We have the people who sell their invites, which IMO is just as low as it gets :(
We have the ones with zero social skills, or time, who use the WIAW to slowly get up the ladder and get into the sites the want. IMO also bad, because usually they don't care who they invite/give accounts to
We have the ones who just trade for the sake of trading, yeah they are here too. I spoke to one, whos mission was to him and his friend have three accounts on every tracker i.e. two people but still wanted three accounts
Now it gets grey
We have the ones with no too good social skills, who e.g. are on a music site and have invites. They really love the site, but still they would love some nice movie site as well.
We have the ones, like me, who know exactly what they want. And they give up with no other option than a trade (I never traded in my life, but if things turned out different, who knows)
We have the online friends/acquaintances who invite each other to their "home"
We have closed invite only :lol: invite forums, where the members support each other... well here I don't know
Bumrocks said it pretty well. We have the good traders, who exchange their sites with other likeminded people i.e. a movie site invite for a music siteinvite. Both will be used.
But on the other hand tracker staff don't have a choice with all the assholes out there.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
The problem with the current situation is that getting into most of the "better" trackers is totally dependent on who you know , as abundantly evidenced by all the cloned idiots on most of these sites , and not what you know or how much you care about actually being a member there.
If more sites were to go the way on open applications maybe it would help , at least a little , in solving some of the problems.
Of course then other than clearly definable niche trackers ,applications would probably just come down to proving that you have such and such uploaded on other sites:dabs: so I guess that wouldn't really be any better would it?
Obviously the only certain and lasting solution would be to make everything "non-exclusive" but that's Socialist talk and obviously not in line with the whole principle behind the internet.:mellow:
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
The problem with the current situation is that getting into most of the "better" trackers is totally dependent on who you know , as abundantly evidenced by all the cloned idiots on most of these sites , and not what you know or how much you care about actually being a member there.
If more sites were to go the way on open applications maybe it would help , at least a little , in solving some of the problems.
Of course then other than clearly definable niche trackers ,applications would probably just come down to proving that you have such and such uploaded on other sites:dabs: so I guess that wouldn't really be any better would it?
If it wasn't for the traders and sellers, most sites wouldn't feel the need to try and limit invites as they do. And of course, because of the limited invites, traders and sellers become more prevalent. Positive feedback loops ftl I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
Obviously the only certain and lasting solution would be to make everything "non-exclusive" but that's Socialist talk and obviously not in line with the whole principle behind the internet.:mellow:
Sounds like it's right out of Stalin's mouth, comrade.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
If it wasn't for the traders and sellers, most sites wouldn't feel the need to try and limit invites as they do. And of course, because of the limited invites, traders and sellers become more prevalent.
yes, that's called a vicious circle. the question is who do you expect to put an end to this tendency ? ...traders ? :unsure:
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
If it wasn't for the traders and sellers, most sites wouldn't feel the need to try and limit invites as they do. And of course, because of the limited invites, traders and sellers become more prevalent. Positive feedback loops ftl I suppose.
OK you know that I'm basically against trading purely from the standpoint that one should leave up to their word but seriously forgive my ignorance and explain to me again, multiple accounts aside, exactly how a traded account is necessarily any more of a liability to a tracker than a "normal" one?
Or is it all about the multiple accounts and the selling or is it the fact that "bad" members ( are there other ways to be bad besides hit and running:unsure: )that have abused their privileges have ( by taking someone else's account but then it's not about invites:unsure: ) an easy way to gain access again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
Obviously the only certain and lasting solution would be to make everything "non-exclusive" but that's Socialist talk and obviously not in line with the whole principle behind the internet.:mellow:
Sounds like it's right out of Stalin's mouth, comrade.
My Dad was big in the NDP .True story.:mellow:
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
OK you know that I'm basically against trading purely from the standpoint that one should leave up to their word but seriously forgive my ignorance and explain to me again, multiple accounts aside, exactly how a traded account is necessarily any more of a liability to a tracker than a "normal" one?
Or is it all about the multiple accounts and the selling or is it the fact that "bad" members ( are there other ways to be bad besides hit and running:unsure: )that have abused their privileges have ( by taking someone else's account but then it's not about invites:unsure: ) an easy way to gain access again?
See my reply on page 1. But as you've no doubt noticed I have a strong moral viewpoint on these sorts of things and an innate distaste for dishonesty. If some kid with a keyboard (i.e. me) can join all these sites without any trouble (with one or two exceptions), anyone else can do so as well without resorting to this bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
My Dad was big in the NDP .True story.:mellow:
So he's probably been in close proximity to Harper at some point? I dunno if I'd be able to resist giving him a square kick to the nuts if it was me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinephilia
Making invites more readily accessible only stops one type of trader, the type that actually wants to become a member and use the site. It won't do shit to prevent the rejoins from the banned, invite sellers, those that trade for sport, etc.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
If some kid with a keyboard (i.e. me) with lots of time on hands and lots of effort in socializing can join all these sites without any trouble (with one or two exceptions), anyone else can do so as well without resorting to this bullshit.
Corrected.
edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
I have a strong moral viewpoint on these sorts of things
You have no moral problems pirating stuff(?) but you have problems when people trade/cheat the system built around piracy.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
The thing is, I actually didn't put in effort at all. I could count on one hand the number of sites I've actually needed to "socialize" for. The truth is, pretty much everything you need can be found by hitting power user at a big tracker with an invite forum. Sites that people waste time trading for here could be obtained by putting in the effort to hit PU at a site like What. Most of my so called "rare" sites were given to me without asking and in some cases (FTN), barely knowing the person at all.
I've asked for three sites in my time with bittorrent: What.cd (my first tracker other than Demonoid), HDBits and E. Most of my other trackers were from unlimited invite offers, open signups, or occasionally a good friend.
The people who "socialize" for invites are easy to spot and don't necessarily succeed. Participate in a community because you want to, not because you're working an angle.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Most of my so called "rare" sites were given to me without asking and in some cases (FTN), barely knowing the person at all.
Yea,those are the side effects of socializing if you dint know.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Yea,those are the side effects of socializing if you dint know.
Lucky him .Usually all I get from it is a hangover and the occasional STD.:(
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
I have no moral problems pirating things. I haven't actually deprived anyone of anything except an imaginary sale. And oddly enough, I often discover something via piracy that actually encourages me to go out and buy the physical product. I had at last count ~350 CDs and 60 LPs, which is a hell of a lot more than most people I know who pirate less than I do. I pay for cable, but I'd rather not rely on syndication to dictate whether I can rewatch an episode or movie. I'd feel much worse taking a candy bar from the convenience store down the street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
Yea,those are the side effects of socializing if you dint know.
Maybe from a cynical viewpoint. I don't suck up to people for invites, which is what passes for socializing in the torrenting world these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
1) Gatorade
2) Condoms
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
1) Gatorade
2) Condoms
Please don't try to socialize with me as it will get you nowhere.:angry:
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
I have no moral problems pirating things.
So what is your moral stance on pirating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
I haven't actually deprived anyone of anything except an imaginary sale. And oddly enough, I often discover something via piracy that actually encourages me to go out and buy the physical product. I had at last count ~350 CDs and 60 LPs, which is a hell of a lot more than most people I know who pirate less than I do.I pay for cable, but I'd rather not rely on syndication to dictate whether I can rewatch an episode or movie. I'd feel much worse taking a candy bar from the convenience store down the street.
Irrelevant stuff.Stealing is stealing even if you own Disney for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Maybe from a cynical viewpoint. I don't suck up to people for invites, which is what passes for socializing in the torrenting world these days.
I dint say you are socializing for invites but I said you got invited because you socialized.Oh and how was it in the old days of torrenting?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Irrelevant stuff.Stealing is stealing even if you own Disney for yourself.
Only irrelevant to those who have made up their minds on the matter already. You have your views, I have mine, neither of us will sway each other. You'll note that people aren't charged with theft, they're charged with copyright infringement.
Quote:
I dint say you are socializing for invites but I said you got invited because you socialized.Oh and how was it in the old days of torrenting?
As I said, not necessary for pretty much any site. The truth of the matter is, traders are too lazy to write anything more than a few words, too lazy to fill out an application or take an interview, and too lazy to give anything back to any site they join. Fucking over the people who're risking their asses so that you can download free stuff might be fine for you, that's your call.
If you want to fileshare without having to worry about others, stick to DDL or Usenet.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Only irrelevant to those who have made up their minds on the matter already. You have your views, I have mine, neither of us will sway each other.
Oh no.Dont escape the question please.You feel http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Copyright+infringement is okay but at the same time trading/cheating on a system built upon it is morally wrong.I say your sense of morality is whacked.And how can you even begin to justify downloading songs/movies/games without paying for the work done by the artists/company.Do you think they are slaves who work for you and deserve to be paid only if they excel from normal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
As I said, not necessary for pretty much any site
Made it bold :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
As I said, not necessary for pretty much any site. The truth of the matter is, traders are too lazy to write anything more than a few words, too lazy to fill out an application or take an interview, and too lazy to give anything back to any site they join.
So are collectors any good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Fucking over the people who're risking their asses so that you can download free stuff might be fine for you, that's your call.
How are traders fucking over people?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Oh no.Dont escape the question please.You feel
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Copyright+infringement is okay but at the same time trading/cheating on a system built upon it is morally wrong.I say your sense of morality is whacked.And how can you even begin to justify downloading songs/movies/games without paying for the work done by the artists/company.Do you think they are slaves who work for you and deserve to be paid only if they excel from normal?
I didn't escape anything, and I'm not depriving anyone of anything. And I think you're the one who could do with some googling of copyright infringement, since you seem to think it's the same thing as theft. It's not even a crime, it's a civil matter where the other person can sue you. And quite frankly, I really don't care what your thoughts are on my sense of morality, as you're clearly lacking one yourself (which of course is fine). If it makes you feel better to call yourself a thief, do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
As I said, not necessary for pretty much any site
Made it bold :)
Good, you agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
So are collectors any good?
Nope, but that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
How are traders fucking over people?
Read some of my earlier replies, I'm not here to constantly repeat myself.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Gatorade works?
It's something I've never thought trying. Usually a small and very cold beer solves the problem.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
It's because of the electrolyte's in Gatorade Cabalo, works great (especially on hangovers).
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
The headache is generally because you're dehydrated. And as the water leaves your body (in the obvious way) it filters through your kidneys, filtering out ions as well (mostly sodium and potassium). Really gatorade's the closest thing you'll get to a hangover cure, though it's definitely not some miracle thing that'll clear your symptoms instantly. Those simply don't exist.
The beer in the morning thing only works if you're still at least slightly drunk (in my experience anyway), in which case you're just prolonging the buzz and setting yourself up for the elusive 5pm hangover :P
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
deadalive1
It's because of the electrolyte's in Gatorade Cabalo, works great (especially on hangovers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
The headache is generally because you're dehydrated. And as the water leaves your body (in the obvious way) it filters through your kidneys, filtering out ions as well (mostly sodium and potassium). Really gatorade's the closest thing you'll get to a hangover cure, though it's definitely not some miracle thing that'll clear your symptoms instantly. Those simply don't exist.
The beer in the morning thing only works if you're still at least slightly drunk (in my experience anyway), in which case you're just prolonging the buzz and setting yourself up for the elusive 5pm hangover :P
Now that's something I had never considered before. Thanks guys! Soon enough I will have the chance to test that.
Attachment 48135
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
It helps if you drink some before passing out too. I generally chug a litre or so before doing so.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
And I think you're the one who could do with some googling of copyright infringement, since you seem to think it's the same thing as theft.
And the problem with you is that you think you arent stealing,how naive.The famous argument "Copying files is not theft" is horseshit really and everyone knows it as well.People are comparing two different systems on the same level.In real world copying may not be a big deal because there is no loss to the creator but when a digital file gets copied,it deprives the creators the money they deserve for the work they did.They are not "working" for free now are they?Its kinda lame read but since you are in denial phase,pondering on these things is really nice.Its for that reason copyright laws are enforced and it becomes a crime to break it.But unlike you here,I know very well of what I am doing instead of pretending that I am doing nothing wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
And quite frankly, I really don't care what your thoughts are on my sense of morality, as you're clearly lacking one yourself (which of course is fine).
Now who was the one saying trading/cheating is morally wrong,was it me?I never said I followed moral principles but I sure well understand the concept of morality.When you argue rules built around an "illegal" system is morally correct,it reeks of stupidity ain't it?But then again you think what you do is not illegal,like psychos think what they do is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
If it makes you feel better to call yourself a thief, do so.
So if a thief rationalizes himself into thinking that he is not a thief that makes a thief not a thief?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
I didn't escape anything
You have been escaping all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Good, you agree.
Yes I agree on the fact that there are sites out there that takes time,effort and socialization to get an invite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
So are collectors any good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Nope, but that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
How come it is irrelevant,When collectors who spend their time,effort and does write fucking long paragraphs are the same as a trader.You said this din't you "traders are too lazy to write anything more than a few words, too lazy to fill out an application or take an interview, and too lazy to give anything back to any site they join. Fucking over the people who're risking their asses so that you can download free stuff might be fine for you, that's your call."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Read some of my earlier replies, I'm not here to constantly repeat myself.
You constantly make no sense.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
If you don't understand the difference between copyright infringement and theft (which is a legal definition, not a made up one like your view on the matter), then I'm done with you. You clearly have no inclination to listen to anything but the incorrect bullshit you spew. Collectors are a problem for a whole different reason outside the entire scope of this thread, which has to do with trading, period.
You're the one who's escaping reality here. I'm quite aware that I'm breaking the law, but I'm not committing theft. Arguing that everyone who downloads something equates to a lost sale is quite simply retarded logic. I'd never have bought 90% of what I've pirated, and the other 10% has generally been bought after the fact.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ca_aok
Arguing that everyone who downloads something equates to a lost sale is quite simply retarded logic.
Well believe it or not, that is exactly a lost sale. Hehe, I just discovered gravity :D.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Actually no it isn't, I have downloaded CD's from the net and after listening to them decided I liked them and then went out and bought the CD (therefore showing my support for the artist). So no, not "exactly" a lost sale.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
"Yeah you're a beautiful consumer,
and I don't want to move back home.
So download all the songs we wrote
and hype it up with some bullshit quotes.
Yeah, we're on a roll." - Kristian Hallbert
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
If you don't understand the difference between copyright infringement and theft (which is a legal definition, not a made up one like your view on the matter)
Quote:
Copyright infringement (or copyright violation) is the unauthorized or prohibited use of works covered by copyright law, in a way that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights, such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works.
Quote:
Comparison to theft
Further information: Dowling v. United States (1985)
Copyright infringement is often equated with theft, for instance in the title of the No Electronic Theft Act of 1997, in Vice President Joe Biden's 2010 statement in an official speech showcasing the Obama-administration IP policy that "file-sharing is theft", and in the Digital Britain report which calls it "effectively a civil form of theft"[56]; but in fact it has major legal differences.
Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft, holding, for instance, in the United States Supreme Court case Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not (for the purpose of the case) constitute stolen property, and writing:
interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: ... 'an infringer of the copyright.' ...
The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over the copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use. While one may colloquially link infringement with some general notion of wrongful appropriation, infringement plainly implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
—Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207, pp. 217–218
The key distinction generally drawn, as indicated above, is that while copyright infringement may (or may not) cause economic loss to the copyright holder, as theft does, it does not appropriate a physical object, nor deprive the copyright holder of the use of the copyright. That information can be replicated without destroying an original is an old observation,[57] and a cornerstone of intellectual property law.
Source:Wikipedia with valid sources inline.
By the above even if copyright infringement is not exactly theft in black and white,It does have the same characteristics of theft.But since digital files have a different "physical property" than real world objects,it gives several loop holes to argue the topic theft vs copying when it comes to digital files.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
but I'm not committing theft.
yea you are getting files for free when you should have bought it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadalive1
Actually no it isn't, I have downloaded CD's from the net and after listening to them decided I liked them and then went out and bought the CD (therefore showing my support for the artist). So no, not "exactly" a lost sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Arguing that everyone who downloads something equates to a lost sale is quite simply retarded logic. I'd never have bought 90% of what I've pirated, and the other 10% has generally been bought after the fact.
We are not talking about business models here and proving if giving shit for free will inturn increase sales or not.We are not talking about what triggered you to pay/buy or about your collection.When a Music/Movie is out there,it is supposed to be bought.Not pirating it and then buying it if you liked it or some BS like that.
Every download is equal to a lost sale is bullshit.But they are not asking you to make copies either.They are stating,If you want something,pay for it.If you dont wanna listen/watch its fine.We dont give a rats ass.But if you wanna listen/watch then pay for it.They dont care if 90% of people dosent buy their product,they are just concerned about the 10% that pay for the product.Thats how they make it out to be.But we being pirates do what we want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
You're the one who's escaping reality here. I'm quite aware that I'm breaking the law,
That was hilarious.So you have no problem in breaking the law but you throw the moral bullshit at people who break the system of an illegally run tracker.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
lol n00bz0r I second your :frusty:
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Thanks for quoting an article that proves I was right and you were wrong, I appreciate it. Then you proceed to try and argue your failure of a point after the proof is quoted directly above. Just because you "feel" something is theft, doesn't make it so, whether in the eyes of the law or the general public.
And I have no idea what you're blabbering about with your RIAA style trolling, but there's never been any proof that a download is a lost sale. There's no way I'd buy everything I pirate, and that's the simple and indisputable truth for a huge portion of pirates out there.
We get it. You're a badass software pirate who's breaking all the rules and couldn't give a shit about it. No one cares.
Maybe a picture will help you understand.
http://www.vincentchow.net/wp-conten.../09/piracy.png
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ToroT
all traders should be banned . .
All FST trolls with 100+ accounts should be banned, also.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Thanks for quoting an article that proves I was right and you were wrong, I appreciate it. Then you proceed to try and argue your failure of a point after the proof is quoted directly above. Just because you "feel" something is theft, doesn't make it so, whether in the eyes of the law or the general public.
Just like your Moral BS,is it?Not everything can be perfectly explained in a clear black and white statement.Or do you think everything is as straightforward and can be put down and explained to the very minute of details?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
And I have no idea what you're blabbering about with your RIAA style trolling, but there's never been any proof that a download is a lost sale.
Good job on reading what I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
Every download is equal to a lost sale is bullshit.
Then again,you were not going to read or gonna listen.Not surprised.
And about that picture,I replied it in #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
The famous argument "Copying files is not theft" is horseshit really and everyone knows it as well.People are comparing two different systems on the same level.In real world copying may not be a big deal because there is no loss to the creator but when a digital file gets copied,it deprives the creators the money they deserve for the work they did.They are not "working" for free now are they?
Suppose if in the real world as well,If people had the means of replicating the exact copies of Books or the products they buy in large scale,what would have been the state?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
We get it. You're a badass software pirate who's breaking all the rules and couldn't give a shit about it. No one cares.
And you are someone who uses petty excuses to make yourself believe what you are doing is correct and also accepts you are breaking rules and at the same time throws tantrums about Morality at others.Another hypocrite(?)
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Just like your Moral BS,is it?Not everything can be perfectly explained in a clear black and white statement.Or do you think everything is as straightforward and can be put down and explained to the very minute of details?
Oh, the world is not black and white eh? We'll come back to this at the end of what will be my last reply to your tired logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Then again,you were not going to read or gonna listen.Not surprised.
Actually I did read it, it's merely incorrect. You "claim" that you believe that every download isn't a lost sale, and then you contradict yourself immediately afterward by trying to tell me that creators are somehow losing money from these copies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
The famous argument "Copying files is not theft" is horseshit really and everyone knows it as well.People are comparing two different systems on the same level.In real world copying may not be a big deal because there is no loss to the creator but when a digital file gets copied,it deprives the creators the money they deserve for the work they did.They are not "working" for free now are they? Suppose if in the real world as well,If people had the means of replicating the exact copies of Books or the products they buy in large scale,what would have been the state?
Umm... "Everyone really knows it is" is not a valid argument to back up your failure of a claim. And actually, we're comparing systems on two different levels, not the least of which is criminal v.s. civil. Oh and pro tip: It's called photocopiers, and libraries. Or using a different example, the radio. Or antenna TV. Or tape recordings. Society didn't fall apart due to any of those, despite bleating from the media corporations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbyBeats
And you are someone who uses petty excuses to make yourself believe what you are doing is correct and also accepts you are breaking rules and at the same time throws tantrums about Morality at others.
I never said I was correct, I corrected your idiocy. There's a difference.
So to wrap things up, you prefaced your post with "the world is not black and white". Well neither is filesharing. Your terrible argument of "you're breaking one rule, therefore fuck all other rules" is ridiculous. I fully expect you to go out there and start murdering, raping, and pillaging since hey, you're "stealing", so saying we should follow any other rules is of course stupid!
Furthermore, the shades of gray in filesharing is exactly where morality comes into play. If you accepted the logic that just because you pirate, you can't just ignore every other rule on the planet, then perhaps you'd realize that pissing off the people who put themselves at risk so that you can pirate is immoral and childish. "Honour among thieves" is a misused term that's often thrown around, but it's got a ring of truth to it as well. If you don't want to play nicely, no one's forcing you to use private BT sites, and indeed, eventually you'll be forcefully ejected. And we won't miss you. If you want to just consume consume consume, I suggest a usenet subscription.
Enjoy being an e-thug.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Why does this always turn into a morality debate? Ffs, Pirating is not a MAJOR crime,maybe a big fine(at least where i am from). Does anyone think these artists/movie studios do not make their money,even if the product sucks.?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
Actually I did read it, it's merely incorrect. You "claim" that you believe that every download isn't a lost sale, and then you contradict yourself immediately afterward by trying to tell me that creators are somehow losing money from these copies.
Yes every download is not a sale.If people had to buy every Music CD/Movie DVD out there,many just wont buy at all and just buy the stuff they are interested in buying.But that dosent give you the license to go around making copies now does it?
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
Oh and pro tip: It's called photocopiers, and libraries. Or using a different example, the radio. Or antenna TV. Or tape recordings. Society didn't fall apart due to any of those, despite bleating from the media corporations.
oh and protip,you missed the word "large scale" in my reply.It makes a helleva lot of difference you know.and oh gawd having an exact copy of CD/DVD with you is the same as listening to or watching radio or TV?If you want I can give you the differences between the two.
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
Your terrible argument of "you're breaking one rule, therefore fuck all other rules" is ridiculous.
Incorrect.I dint say just because you are breaking one rule,fuck all other rules.This discussion was never ever about rules now,was it?It was about morality.You seem to have a twisted sense of morality when you feel OK to break law and then apply moral principles on the RULES BUILT ON the SAME immoral system.
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
Furthermore, the shades of gray in filesharing is exactly where morality comes into play. If you accepted the logic that just because you pirate, you can't just ignore every other rule on the planet, then perhaps you'd realize that pissing off the people who put themselves at risk so that you can pirate is immoral and childish. "Honour among thieves" is a misused term that's often thrown around, but it's got a ring of truth to it as well.
I lol'd when you said "that pissing off the people who put themselves at risk so that you can pirate is immoral and childish".aaah oh well.:lol:.lemme ask you something.The people who risk their lifes just so that normal lowly humans like me can download files are doing it voluntarily right?Is anyone pressuring them to do what they do?And what type of risk are you talking about?who are the ones getting copyright infringement letters,Members who expose their IPs while downloading or the Mods/Admins who are well secured by employing different kinds of security and privacy measures to hide themselves?
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
If you don't want to play nicely, no one's forcing you to use private BT sites
I wont break the rules but at the same time I know throwing moral crap is baseless and stupid as well.
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
and indeed, eventually you'll be forcefully ejected.
I dont see myself getting ejected until i decide to do so myself.
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
If you want to just consume consume consume, I suggest a usenet subscription.
Usenet and DDL communities are another way to share the files where PEOPLE SHARE FILES.What makes you think Usenet is all about "consume consume consume",because people dont have to put their PC online 24*7 and keep on seeding?Is that what you call giving back to the community?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
Thanks for totally hijacking my thread guys :dabs:
(to be honest I don't mind this angsty turn of events one bit )
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
I scratched my 'best of Michal Bolton' CD:dabs:. Why can't i just download it or is it morally correct to go buy another copy?
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Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Yes every download is not a sale.If people had to buy every Music CD/Movie DVD out there,many just wont buy at all and just buy the stuff they are interested in buying.But that dosent give you the license to go around making copies now does it?
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
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Originally Posted by
1000possibleclaws
Thanks for totally hijacking my thread guys :dabs:
(to be honest I don't mind this angsty turn of events one bit )
Unfortunately I'm done with our little buddy who loves contradicting his own arguments in each new reply :(
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Originally Posted by pone44
Depending on your country's law, that's actually legal. But of course, you're actually a thief for doing so. You should've clearly bought a backup copy at the time.
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
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Originally Posted by
pone44
I scratched my 'best of Michal Bolton' CD:dabs:. Why can't i just download it or is it morally correct to go buy another copy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AbyBeats
Yes every download is not a sale.If people had to buy every Music CD/Movie DVD out there,many just wont buy at all and just buy the stuff they are interested in buying.But that dosent give you the license to go around making copies now does it?
I scratched and destroyed my LCD monitor and is on the way to break in and take another LCD monitor from the vendors shop.And oh by the way if you have been reading this thread its not me who has moral conflicts here.You can do what you want just like me. :)
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Originally Posted by ca_aok
Unfortunately I'm done with our little buddy who loves contradicting his own arguments in each new reply
yea more like since you cant pull the moral card anymore,you dont have anything else to say except mock around to get some kick out of it.pathetic.
And since most of the stuff is as you mentioned is in "shades of gray".It is easy to dodge by saying one statement is contradicting the other when I have given explanation for each argument I have made.
Anyway I am off to sleep,its 1:17am here.GN
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Re: Is invite trading really that bad?
If you pirate you are breaking the law, whether that is civil or criminal prosecution, you are still breaking it. (actually cracking protection/being the very 1st uploader/source is criminal, downloading/uploading is civil)
trading/cheating, you are breaking a poxy tracker rule, there is no law involved at all, its what the staff think is best for their tracker, some trackers dont care about either, others do, but its still just a poxy rule, if you get caught you get banned, just deal with it.
but i still cant see just because the tracker hosts copywrite material, gives members the right, to break the tracker rules that the copywrite material is on (actually the tracker doesnt even host the stuff, the members do), never ever understood that one i am afraid.
all it is for is the good of the tracker, what if every member cheated, or hit and run, or limited their upload, the cheaters would be the first to complain that the tracker is shit, when its them that is making it shit, if everyone traded invites/accounts, everyone would be hiding away, no one would take part, no one would upload, and again the traders would be complaining that the tracker is shit.
then when we ban the above, they lie and say they done nothing wrong on other forums, shit is easy to throw, its a lot harder to wash off and get the smell away.
we are damned if we do and we are damned if we dont.
