Is it really true that all ratio cheaters eventually get caught?

SCC isn't too bad considering all the freeleech stuff. That's mainly what I consume there anyway. It's much easier to get 0-day stuff from a ratioless tracker or a large site like IPT if you have a slow connection.

Along those same likes, you could try BTN for ratioless TV, or a large site like freshon.tv or TvT.com where it's much easier to gain ratio.

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Originally Posted by kallieb

Getting all caught up in the game of trying to beat a torrent sites stat's system is right up there with stealing condoms from wal-mart.

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But the difference is Wal-Mart dosent steal those condoms.

Pirating apps/games/movies is what it is. I'm under no illusion about that nor is this the point being discussed in this thread. I'm talking about ratio cheats who seem to catch a thrill from what otherwise is easily available, not reliant upon invites and ratio free - namely DDL. That's where my stealing condoms analogy comes in.

What would serve as an interesting counter-point is to hear a rationalisation as to why those who do use cheat clients find it necessary to do so. If the over-whelming answer that floats out is that they just 'have' to be a member of xyz site and it's the only way they can do so because they have a crappy home connection.. well...that's even more lame than stealing condoms.

Its a matter of perspective.You find it justifiable(?) and ok(?) to pirate stuff and cheaters find it justifiable and ok for cheating/trading in a system created by Pirates.The margin is drawn by rules.Nothing more,Nothing less.Cheaters will do what they do,Trackers will do what they do.

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Originally Posted by Kallieb

If the over-whelming answer that floats out is that they just 'have' to be a member of xyz site and it's the only way they can do so because they have a crappy home connection.. well...that's even more lame than stealing condoms.

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Now thats interesting.Are you saying people who have crap home connection shouldnt join sites they cant maintain an "acceptable" ratio?

of course you shouldn't join a tracker/site/company/whatever if you cannot follow the rules. Maintaining certain ratio is one of basic rules.

Stupid thread. Off course not all of them get caught. But a large majority of them do get caught because of some mistake they make, for becoming to greedy, for being stupid ...

Why is this even discussed here?

@ Abybeats: People that do not have the means to get a decent ratio should not join at those places imo.
If you didn't have any money, you wouldn't stay in the Ritz/Hilton/Waldorf wouldn't you?

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Originally Posted by Disme

If you didn't have any money, you wouldn't stay in the Ritz/Hilton/Waldorf wouldn't you?

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Well, if all they could do was to kick me out with no jurisdiction, I most certainly would...

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Originally Posted by Disme

Stupid thread. Off course not all of them get caught.

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Well, since I don't know anything about cheating, I asked this question.

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Originally Posted by Disme

@ Abybeats: People that do not have the means to get a decent ratio should not join at those places imo.

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Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

They seed stuff for long periods of time.
I normally download some shows now and then for my wife which aren't really available on larger easier to seed sites.
I end up seeding them for about 3 weeks at a time before I reach 1:1.
Theres normally someone out there who looks for the show... its just a matter of waiting for them to come along.
Another thing that works on bmtv is uploading your own shows that they dont have yet... or even requests.

P.S. Is this post going to be deleted from this thread like my 4 posts last week were from other threads for no reason whatsoever?

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

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Seed season packs, especially if you can cross-seed.

I used to RSS stuff there on my home connection (40kB/s up) and I could often get a ratio of 1-2 after leaving a torrent seeding for a week or two. Seedboxes tend to drop off after the first few days.

But as I said a few posts up, there are plenty of viable alternatives to BitMeTV for those with slower connection speeds.

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

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Originally Posted by Disme

@ Abybeats: People that do not have the means to get a decent ratio should not join at those places imo.

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Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

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I have managed to get decent ratio's on every tracker (including BitmeTV and other harder to seed trackers). BUT I do know what to download and what not, and I also realise I could buffer 1TB easily with a seedbox, but I haven't used those for a very long time and don't intend to in the future.
Since I seed on a home-connection (upspeed about 130-140 KB/s) and got into HD-content (1080p rips, etc...) that are many GB's per movie, I have explored other download-methods, that don't require me to seed 24/7/365 and still struggling with my ratio.
I've been using http-boards, where you can find everything and more on RS/MU/HF/NL/MF, etc ... (JDownloader FTW).
Lately I've started to use newsgroups also as a source of download, and must say I'm more than pleased. Mind you ... I have no payserver, no subscription whatsoever, but when looking a bit on the net you always find ways to get what you want without paying.

I just mean people should be realistic and realise some trackers aren't meant for people on a home-connection. Maybe it's not fair but that's the way it is. I just search for other ways to get what I want.

Yes,thats it.Majority of people who torrent are not hard core torrenters who keep their PC 24*7*365 days.They want "results" in quick succession.Thats the main reason why seedboxes sell like hotcakes and the reason why people tend to cheat if they have no money to shell out for a seedbox.Once people realize the vast diverse of content and quality that private trackers deliver,It is irresistible not to have a bite of it.When trackers make getting even the smallest bit of buffer(or downloading more) like hell under "realistic living" condition,I believe they themselves are the ones igniting the use of seedboxes/Cheats.When we put ourselfs in the shoes of a normal college student or a normal working man,what I say becomes clear.
The way I see it,only uploaders and the people who seed for long periods of time so that others get the files just as they did,deserves thanks.All else are just leechers.To top it all,its people who have slow net connections that seed for longer periods of time.Do you think a guy with seedbox or a fast connection will seed for longer periods of time?As I said before,there is no "good guy" or "bad guy" in BT and never ever can the character of a person be determined by their actions in net.Sucking up and rationalizing that a tracker is not meant for them is just not how "Humans" are,especially when its for free and has no consequences whatsoever for the actions they take in "net".Just Causality determined by the Rules of people who control the tracker.(How ever freakish the rules maybe)

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Originally Posted by OlegL

And you still cheat from time to time at what.cd?

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You're starting to sound like their staff. :fear:

Morality issues aside, is ratio cheating as much of an issue today as it was even just a couple of years ago?

Even just a few years ago home connections were pretty much the norm, and seedboxes were rare. With those conditions, if someone wasn't contributing their fair share, then the whole swarm suffered. Nowadays with the proliferation of 100mb seedboxes, and with Gbit boxes becoming more popular, if a small percentage of a swarm is only leeching and not contributing any upload to the swarm would it even make a difference in the overall swarm speed?

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if a small percentage of a swarm is only leeching and not contributing any upload to the swarm would it even make a difference in the overall swarm speed?

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No but at least they are being honest about it, and will seed for longer in order to upload something on it, rather than cheat and the torrent dieing afer a week or so.

You cant have your cake and eat it, most crave for fast speed, you get that with seed boxes, then they crave for retention of older stuff, just incase, but they dont want to seed what they download, they just cheat, so when torrents die quick, its not a very good tracker as it has no retention. you cant expect seedboxes to stay on torrents for months, and if they did, they would still get blamed for pinching all th bw from normal users for months, but then you get old torrents that are slow, because the SB members have jumped off, the cheaters have cheated their ratio so they can jump off, only ones that are left on are the slow stragglers, so the tracker has good retention but slow speed. trackers cant win, its a fine balancing act, and most of us fuck it up, because there is no way to have.

Fast new torrents
Fast old torrents
Great retention.
+ratio for everyone

without someone or other complaining about something or other.

all you have to do is leave your torrent seeding, its not hard, even a monkey could do it (after a human set it up for him).

PS no all cheaters do not get caught, they seed slowly, which i have never undertood, if you seed slowly cheating, you may as well upload properly.

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Originally Posted by stoi

PS no all cheaters do not get caught, they seed slowly, which i have never undertood, if you seed slowly cheating, you may as well upload properly.

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I would have to think most of those cheaters are the ones from countries with terrible bandwidth? If it was someone like that who was only "padding" his stats a bit in order to survive and to be able to maintain a 1.0 ratio, I wouldn't have much of an issue with that, as long as he was actually seeding the torrent as well. It's the cheaters who are only doing it to give themselves "impressive" stats, or to buffer accounts to make them more valuable to trade/sell that I have issue with.

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Originally Posted by stoi

PS no all cheaters do not get caught, they seed slowly, which i have never undertood, if you seed slowly cheating, you may as well upload properly.

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Often the first check I'll do when looking at a potential cheater is the maximum speed offered by their ISP. If they cheat slowly, it's much more likely to look reasonable in that respect.

The problem is most cheaters aren't doing it as just a slight padding, they're using their cheat client like a seedbox, except worse since they aren't even helping anyone's download speed. Just sit there, cheat your way to a huge ratio, and drop the torrent a few hours later.

but they seed slowly when there are leechers on, in fear of getting caught, and they dont upload and cheat, they just cheat, they dont need to upload, its not like they have to upload, so yes to the tracker he is seeding, to the leechers he is giving 0 at all.

and seed a few torrents at 150KBs for a week, and you have quite a large buffer to play with. and there is quite a few ways to cheat, its not just download, then cheat. but you will have to do the research on that one, i am not going to tell people what you can do and cant do with these programs.

i stated torrenting with 25 kB/s or less up speed. joined several sites...ended up deleting/quitting those where i had to plan how to "survive". i'll stick with ratio free sites and sites with huge 20k+ userbase...and avoid all the hassle that comes with hard to seed on tracker. downloading a freeleech torrent that i'll never use, downloading something from one tracker only to crossseed in another, carefully watching my ratio....those never been my thing anyway.

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

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Three words: Pay to leech Upload Credit Donations

Of course, if you don't want to pay money for a seedbox/fast connection or donation, you can pay with your time (IRC announce monitoring, partial leeching, cross-seeding, and other staff-approved shenanigans). Either way, you're gonna pay.

If you don't like the way they play the game you can always go up the road to one of the many other TV Trackers.

i'm sad to admit that i've gotten by most, if not all, of my private tracker memberships by donating money (pay2leech) or designing graphics for upload credit

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Originally Posted by tknaught

If you don't like the way they play the game you can always go up the road to one of the many other TV Trackers.

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Cheaters dont play by their rules.I thought it was obvious.And from a cheaters pov,why should he leave an organized and content rich site when he can get what he want.

No not all ratio cheaters get caught because some cheaters cheat with their "real" connection & then it´s not so risky ..

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

Cheaters dont play by their rules.I thought it was obvious.And from a cheaters pov,why should he leave an organized and content rich site when he can get what he want.

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If your hypothetical user takes this attitude toward cheating, then he would probably cheat regardless of whether it was easy or hard to keep ratio on BMTV. In the post I was replying to, you seemed to be asking whether the difficulty of keeping ratio on BMTV leaves home users with no alternative but to cheat. This is not the case. If you don't want to cheat, you have viable options. If want to cheat, then just do it and face the consequences. Don't try to dress it up and pretend that you were forced into cheating by BMTV.

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

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With responsible downloading, I've had no trouble on a home connection @ BitmeTV. Don't go hog wild with the packs, seed for resonable amounts of time, and you'll be fine. I've NEVER paid for upload credit there.

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Originally Posted by tknaught

If you don't want to cheat, you have viable options.

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Originally Posted by tknaught

Three words: Pay to leech Upload Credit Donations

Of course, if you don't want to pay money for a seedbox/fast connection or donation, you can pay with your time (IRC announce monitoring, partial leeching, cross-seeding, and other staff-approved shenanigans). Either way, you're gonna pay.

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Some very good viable options indeed ...

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Originally Posted by tknaught

If want to cheat, then just do it and face the consequences.

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Who said the contrary here? :unsure:

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Originally Posted by tknaught

Don't try to dress it up and pretend that you were forced into cheating by BMTV.

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Who tried to dress up here? :blink:

The reasons why cheaters cheat is discussed here and I did make a post about that above.

Abybeats
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/879/spacebarkey3.jpg

Globaly banned? Impossible if they are smart cheaters and on dynamic IPs.

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Originally Posted by aen

Abybeats
*image*

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It's better than that cafe PC where they ripped the Ctrl and Alt keys and filled the remaining void with glue so that people wouldn't "hack" the timer system Alt-Tabbing out of it.

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Originally Posted by Tokeman

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Originally Posted by AbyBeats

Now that brings me to the next argument.How do people maintain a good "acceptable" ratio in sites like BitmeTV from home connection?

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With responsible downloading, I've had no trouble on a home connection @ BitmeTV. Don't go hog wild with the packs, seed for resonable amounts of time, and you'll be fine. I've NEVER paid for upload credit there.

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Just checked (after a long time) and I got disabled there... My ratio was good there but it was a pain to keep the ratio. I don't know what kind of "home connection" you have or if you live in Japan but my home connection can't keep an account there without partial leech/seed or without grabbing things in other trackers to seed there to make some ratio.

when i had 10/10 line, it took me around 24 hours to become PU @ bitmetv. Yes, it took some effort and time, but after that i was pretty free to download what i want, and then seed it...

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Originally Posted by 7th

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Originally Posted by Tokeman

With responsible downloading, I've had no trouble on a home connection @ BitmeTV. Don't go hog wild with the packs, seed for resonable amounts of time, and you'll be fine. I've NEVER paid for upload credit there.

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Just checked (after a long time) and I got disabled there... My ratio was good there but it was a pain to keep the ratio. I don't know what kind of "home connection" you have or if you live in Japan but my home connection can't keep an account there without partial leech/seed or without grabbing things in other trackers to seed there to make some ratio.

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I have comcap, with their lowest package available. I get 1.5MB down, with ~240KB/s up. Although when I started on BitmeTV I only got ~50KB/s up. It was harder to maintain ratio then, but entirely possible, as I did it. If I jump on a new show with already 100+ seeders, it usually only takes ~24 hours or so to get 1/1 ratio, then a little longer for a small buffer. Not unreasonable IMO.

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Originally Posted by Tokeman

when I started on BitmeTV I only got ~50KB/s up. It was harder to maintain ratio then, but entirely possible, as I did it.

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If you check my post again you'll see I also had a good ratio there. It was just harder then it was supposed to be in my opinion. And no way I would grab every new show only because they had a 100+ "leechers". I would like to feel free to grab what I wanted to grab, including old tv shows and series and I couldn't handle that without MUCH effort.

The thing is... after being a user at trackers like IPT (with some great speeds) and BCG (with huge content) for some time, I don't see the point in being part of a tracker like Bitme.tv.
And I don't see why someone would decide to cheat and risk their accounts at trackers like BCG and IPT simply because you don't need to cheat to survive there. At the same time, someone could give you plenty of "good" motives to cheat in other hard-to-seed trackers.

I can't even see the point for spending more money with seedboxes =/
I think that only "professional" uploaders should use seedboxes and hence, those should also receive support from the trackers.

Ah, those are just newbie' ideas anyway so don't take it too serious... =/

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Originally Posted by 7th

And I don't see why someone would decide to cheat and risk their accounts at trackers like BCG and IPT simply because you don't need to cheat to survive there.

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I totally agree with that!

You don't even need to keep a ratio on BCG, because all you have to do is leave the torrent you've actually downloaded, the seedpoint system will do the rest!
Wait until it's 1:0 and that's it. If every torrent ratio is 1.0 ,than your global ratio is 1.0! Why do you need then buffer? For nothing! :)

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Originally Posted by anon-sbi

one year ago someone PMed me asking me if I wanted an invite. He said he didn't know anyone else to give it to.

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why am i not that lucky

Well, I know a few people that have mass cheated on many trackers. Both small and big. They never get caught in cheating and they never will! Just use your brain if you want to cheat and then you will never get caught even on the big trackers! :)

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Originally Posted by whatcdfan

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Originally Posted by anon-sbi

one year ago someone PMed me asking me if I wanted an invite. He said he didn't know anyone else to give it to.

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why am i not that lucky

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Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with luck.

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Originally Posted by P2PDog

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Originally Posted by whatcdfan

why am i not that lucky

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Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with luck.

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lol

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Originally Posted by RussianNinja

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Originally Posted by 7th

And I don't see why someone would decide to cheat and risk their accounts at trackers like BCG and IPT simply because you don't need to cheat to survive there.

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I totally agree with that!

You don't even need to keep a ratio on BCG, because all you have to do is leave the torrent you've actually downloaded, the seedpoint system will do the rest!
Wait until it's 1:0 and that's it. If every torrent ratio is 1.0 ,than your global ratio is 1.0! Why do you need then buffer? For nothing! :)

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Nice point.. But you should not stop seeding after reaching 1:1 ratio as it will violet the main principle of p2p which is sharing..