FLAC vs MP3 - Which Has Better Quality

Wait, what would jitter have to do with the FLAC vs high-bitrate MP3 debate? Both are stored as bits on the drive, and therefore don't have to worry about rotational speeds as you read the CD. If you're talking about CD vs FLAC, that's a different discussion.

Also, to be able to say that a $500 system will make your music sound better and to say that a $500 system will help you discern the difference between FLAC and MP3 are totally different things. Yes, a $500 system will make your music sound better. But what a sound system cannot do is make you hear at impossible ranges, those high and low bits that get stripped out during a lossy encode. If you choose a low enough bitrate, and enough bits get stripped out, it will be easy to tell the difference with almost any sound system.

I can't say because I haven't actually observed you doing the tests but if you say you can hear the difference between FLAC and V0, I can only say one of 3 things:
1. You have exceptional (supernatural) ears.
2. You're not listening to V0, maybe 128 CBR.
3. You're not doing blind tests and therefore are experiencing the placebo effect.

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

I will be the first to admit, though, that there is no audible difference between 320kbps and V0, no matter whose system I've run ABX tests on.

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absolutely..........but still the difference is very visible in CBR 128 kbps and V2 or better, i think its the mode of encoding VBR/CBR which determines the quality later on,
some experts on mp3talks.ru told me that there should be a specific reason in opting for CBR instead of VBR,but there can be exceptions
it was the time when i use to download all my music from mp3sale all the music there is in V2 except for one album which i downloaded was in CBR320 when i asked why is this in CBR320 at mp3talks they told me the music of the album demanded the optimum quality if we had an option to go beyond that, we would have

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

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It was a joke about the jitter, Anarkial. Jitter doesn't even exist, it's a concept invented by monkeys that want to sound more technical about sound than they should. And no, a $500 system is more than adequate to bring out flaws in the music itself. For example, for the longest time ever I thought there was something wrong with my headphones "clicking" till one day I noticed that I only noticed the clicking on guitar solos. Upon further investigation, I realized the clicking I had been noticing for so long was the sound of the guitarists' pick strumming the strings. A better system directly means that you can not only decide the difference between a fantastic recording/mastering over a crappy one, but also the quality of a file. Miserably done encodes sound like the sea on my system. You can't hear the different waves. (I'll admit, that cheeky pun is not mine, it belongs to a friend).

Also, I never said I can tell the difference between FLAC and V0. There's about a handful of songs that I'd need to especially pick to notice the difference (cymbals are my way of telling, especially when drowned amongst guitars and screaming vocals). The only thing I have no problems determining are tracks up to V0. That includes V2 and V0. I think I did mention that with anything higher than V0 it's pointless for me to even try and figure out what quality it is, and for the V0/320kbps case especially, I have never passed an ABX test, no matter the system.

EDIT: Whatcdfan, it goes without saying that depending on the genre and the specific instruments involved, different qualities are preferred. If you listen to a lot of Opera or music that involves heavy vocal work and not much else (tropical music falls into this, as well), then you'd be hard pressed to require anything more than a 128kbps mp3. On the other end of the spectrum, if you enjoy a lot of metal (as I do), then that complicates things, but as I said, the difference between V0 and 320kbps has always been transparent to me, I see no reason you should pick one over the other, except for the reason that you like to keep tabs/control over your file size.

EDIT2: Also, my apologies to fidelity freaks, but at the end of the day, a Stradivarius sounds the exact same a side-street vendor who hand makes ten of them a day on any audio track that's been remastered to hell and back. Sure, you can tell there's a difference in violins, but the energy/vibrations are unfortunately lost in the digital conversion; perhaps it's just me, but I've never understood the "I want to hear it the way the artist intended" argument. Go see him/her/it live.

Another epic ringhunter post.

Ok, when you talked about jitter I was like you best be trolling mayne.

Although I completely agree with you that an expensive sound system will make you hear things you never heard before, I still don't think that a well done V0 encode will be all that much different from the CD. For the extreme highs and lows, maybe, as you pointed out. And bad encodes will sound like shit on any system (except for stock iPod earphones, those things are crap beyond crap). But I think we're generally in agreement here.

Even surpassing technical details of certain genres, your preferences should be the first thing taken into account. It'll ease your mind to know that Yo Yo Ma is being played back bit for bit and you're not losing the slightest details, the clicking of the strings on the fingerboard, and OH YES, you can even hear him breathe without him sounding like a raspy accordion. You'll be happy knowing that the pop songs you don't care much about don't occupy much space on your drive but you get the general feeling and you can dance to it if you feel like it (and seriously, do you really need to hear Taio Cruz bit for bit? What's the difference? You can't make crap music better by encoding it better...)

As for your last comment - it's like the guys who post videos of their $2000 vinyl setups on YouTube and everyone comments like "Wow, it's like I'm hearing the music in my room - much better than my system." It's total facepalm.

And live trumps all, availability issues aside. Fuck perfection - music is an experience, not a fucking science. (Except don't watch Katy Perry live unless you're sure she's on AutoTune). (And don't listen to classical music on your computer unless you're trying to learn a piece - support those poor guys in your neighborhood trying to make a living off of pieces of wood and metal.)

This has nothing to do with bittorrent. Over 99% of people think mp3 sounds fine, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

Spoiler: Show

If this was asked on a music forum, I might consider taking the OP seriously, but come on.

@Anarkial:
well said mate so i think it come tunneling down to one common factor that is hardware, to be able to notice the difference between V0/320kbps and FLAC/APE/ALAC i mean lossy and lossless one must have lossless compatible hardware that can output all the input bitrate put into the playing file and for sure if one have the compatible hardware there will be notifiable difference between lossy and lossless, i have experienced it on both my 5.1 channel music system and my notepad speakers
on my music system lossless sounds are heart thriving and lossy sounds are not so especially when i have the taste of "as good as it gets"
on my notebook speakers lossy sounds perfect but lossless sounds are rend bcoz speakers arent compatible to deliver output of such high bitrate

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

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Originally Posted by bijoy

Looks like some 80 year old is speaking here.. :fst:

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I'm starting to regret that pact I made with myself about giving you room to breathe. Imbecile.

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who cares? :huh:

one thing for sure ... mp3 is good enough for normal users ... like those who has 2 speakers and users who listen at low volumes ...

FLAC is for users any thing other that above .. that's what i can tell about this debate

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Which Has Better Quality

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:lol::lol::lol: fake Title! Something like this can not comment.

Anyone of you who cant tell a difference between FLAC and a 320kbps probably

1)Dont have decent equipment
2)Are fortunate enough to have ears which are not sensitive

I'd love to know what your system is, Lea. I've tried systems with price tags North of $20,000, and I struggled (granted, they weren't mine, and it wasn't an extended session).

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

EDIT2: Also, my apologies to fidelity freaks, but at the end of the day, a Stradivarius sounds the exact same a side-street vendor who hand makes ten of them a day on any audio track that's been remastered to hell and back. Sure, you can tell there's a difference in violins, but the energy/vibrations are unfortunately lost in the digital conversion; perhaps it's just me, but I've never understood the "I want to hear it the way the artist intended" argument. Go see him/her/it live.

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/thread

If you're a real fidelity nut, see em acoustic. Unplugged even. There's absolutely no loss of aural quality due to silly things like cables and electiricity(not being sarcastic, just embracing the debate of real musical quality, and what the ear hears most purely), ports and cards, all those things rewriting the original, unique and individual harmonic qualities of the instruments you're listening to. Personally, if I want to hear music at it's most pure and real, it MUST be live, but that's an entirely different subject. I've been afforded the opportunity to see hundreds, if not several thousands, of sets, from most of the range of music, live over the course of my life, so I am spoiled rotten. But, nonetheless, those idiosyncrasies are the exciting thing about music, and the way we connect with the performers we adore/idolize/admire, and feel a shared humanity.

/hippy rant

For real though, studio vs. venue, venue wins hands down, out cold, no debate, end story.

/offtopic

@OP, fuck if I know, I'm half deaf. :stuart:

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

I'd love to know what your system is, Lea. I've tried systems with price tags North of $20,000, and I struggled (granted, they weren't mine, and it wasn't an extended session).

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I would have posted the pics of my sound system immediately but there is 1 person on this forum who doubts my integrity and claims that all I do is lie therefore give me a day or two and Ill post complete pics of my system with my nick written on a page of paper in all the pics.

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

But, nonetheless, those idiosyncrasies are the exciting thing about music, and the way we connect with the performers we adore/idolize/admire, and feel a shared humanity.

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Completely agreed. You can't really "know" an artist or person till you're up and close to them. Some of my favorite artists turned out to be douches/business monkeys when seen live, even though their music wouldn't even given it away in over a decade, and yet, others feel completely down to Earth (the two names that I met/talked to and instantly pop into mind when I mention connecting/knowing what an artist is about are Leona Lewis and Brian Fair). I can't really explain it as well as you did, but there's always the personality judgment/connection factor shared between fan and performer in a live session, that can't be experienced through a pair of headphones and high fidelity files.

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Originally Posted by lea88

I would have posted the pics of my sound system immediately but there is 1 person on this forum who doubts my integrity and claims that all I do is lie therefore give me a day or two and Ill post complete pics of my system with my nick written on a page of paper in all the pics.

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I'm in no rush, but I didn't want you to prove anything. All I wanted to know was what your system was composed of, so I can hunt a friend or someone who has it, and find out if I can get it for myself, too, down the road. However, you're welcome to do things your way.

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

Completely agreed. You can't really "know" an artist or person till you're up and close to them. Some of my favorite artists turned out to be douches/business monkeys when seen live, even though their music wouldn't even given it away in over a decade, and yet, others feel completely down to Earth (the two names that I met/talked to and instantly pop into mind when I mention connecting/knowing what an artist is about are Leona Lewis and Brian Fair). I can't really explain it as well as you did, but there's always the personality judgment/connection factor shared between fan and performer in a live session, that can't be experienced through a pair of headphones and high fidelity files.

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Originally Posted by lea88

I would have posted the pics of my sound system immediately but there is 1 person on this forum who doubts my integrity and claims that all I do is lie therefore give me a day or two and Ill post complete pics of my system with my nick written on a page of paper in all the pics.

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I'm in no rush, but I didn't want you to prove anything. All I wanted to know was what your system was composed of, so I can hunt a friend or someone who has it, and find out if I can get it for myself, too, down the road. However, you're welcome to do things your way.

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At the moment I have 2 systems

System 1

Pioneer AVH-P6100DVD Head Unit
Pioneer P6600 Digital Sound Processor
Focal 165KRX2 6.5" Components
Focal Polyglass Rear Coaxials
Focal Power 4.75 Limited Edition Amplifier
Focal Power 1.800 Limited Edition Amplifier
Pioneer Reference Series W12PRS Sub in a Sealed enclosure
Dynamat Extreme Dampening in trunks and doors
Stinger Xpert Wiring

System 2

Pioneer AVH-P4100DVD Headunit
JBL MS-8 Digital Sound Processor
Morel Supremo 6.5" Components
Audison Lrx 4.1 Amplifier
Pioneer Reference Series W12PRS Sub in a Sealed enclosure
Dynamat Extreme Dampening in trunks and doors
Rockford Fosgate Dual Amplifier Wiring Kit

MP3 is more better then flac ,

Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) is better, because it is lossless, isn't it?
get proper hardware and then listen, sure you see the difference

Just ignore him, he's merely spamming his way to 20 posts.

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

Just ignore him, he's merely spamming his way to 20 posts.

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That's puzzling, given the fact full privileges require a mere 5 posts (plus the usual two weeks of membership, of course).

I guess he thinks it'll take less if he posts more. :mellow:

Recorded has better fidelity than live - Perlman playing Paganini sounds better on my laptop than my friends do in real life - this is real proof bring it!

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

Recorded has better fidelity than live - Perlman playing Paganini sounds better on my laptop than my friends do in real life - this is real proof bring it!

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Um...:unsure:

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8112/ronperlman.jpg ?

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

Recorded has better fidelity than live - Perlman playing Paganini sounds better on my laptop than my friends do in real life - this is real proof bring it!

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blieve me, you'd change your mind if you listened to Itzhak Perlman himself in a hall with great acoustics..

I actually agree with Anarkial. You hear Live through crappy speakers, wiring and associated equipment which isn't meant for SQ, quite the opposite of a recording studio environment

Gaiz no recorded iz battar I know that live is nothing that's why the word is longer

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

Gaiz no recorded iz battar I know that live is nothing that's why the word is longer

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:no: You could have had more fun toying around with people at a higher level than this. You didn't need to make it obvious. The fun could have gone on.

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Originally Posted by lea88

I actually agree with Anarkial. You hear Live through crappy speakers, wiring and associated equipment which isn't meant for SQ, quite the opposite of a recording studio environment

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Those PA systems aren't generally total pieces of crap, you know ;) Perhaps if you're at a small venue, but at a big show I wouldn't say this is true.

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

Gaiz no recorded iz battar I know that live is nothing that's why the word is longer

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:no: You could have had more fun toying around with people at a higher level than this. You didn't need to make it obvious. The fun could have gone on.

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Sorry I have an inferiority complex so when I act dumb and nobody catches it I feel like shit.

Also, to Lea - I don't like listening to live when it means that I have to listen to speakers/wiring. I'm a classical kind of guy, so I support the local quartets/quintets and small orchestras that play around where I live. Otherwise, if the music requires speakers, i.e. electronic or rock, then I'm still happier listening to it live than recorded, because for me, music is a social experience, and only occasional a personal one.

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

Sorry I have an inferiority complex so when I act dumb and nobody catches it I feel like shit.

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You mean a superiority complex. You are constantly reminded that even when you act dumb, people are even dumber; which is why you feel the need to stoop down further. There, I diagnosed you properly now. That'll be a few thousand dollars.

Sometimes I sit alone at night and think that I should become a psychiatrist.

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

Sometimes I sit alone at night and think that I should become a psychiatrist.

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Then I would suggest you sit down in front of a mirror, then ask yourself, "How does this make me feel?" If you find yourself annoyed by the question, you're probably doing it right. :P Pass go, collect $200(per 50 minute hour), and enjoy the benefits.

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

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Originally Posted by ringhunter

Sometimes I sit alone at night and think that I should become a psychiatrist.

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Then I would suggest you sit down in front of a mirror, then ask yourself, "How does this make me feel?" If you find yourself annoyed by the question, you're probably doing it right. :P Pass go, collect $200(per 50 minute hour), and enjoy the benefits.

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Do you sometimes sit at home at night and think that you should become Rich Uncle Pennybags?

And back on topic so this thread doesn't get Van Dammed - Why do we have this thread? Really, what's the point any more?

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

Then I would suggest you sit down in front of a mirror, then ask yourself, "How does this make me feel?" If you find yourself annoyed by the question, you're probably doing it right. :P Pass go, collect $200(per 50 minute hour), and enjoy the benefits.

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Do you sometimes sit at home at night and think that you should become Rich Uncle Pennybags?

And back on topic so this thread doesn't get Van Dammed - Why do we have this thread? Really, what's the point any more?

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It was a rhetorical topic. Rhetoripical... rhetopical...rhetoricopacal...rhetoricatopical thread, so, no harm, no foul?

Rhetoricatopical Shmetoricatopical quality is in the ears of the beer holder

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Originally Posted by lea88

I actually agree with Anarkial. You hear Live through crappy speakers, wiring and associated equipment which isn't meant for SQ, quite the opposite of a recording studio environment

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Live bootlegs capture elements you won't find in (over)produced studio-work. Also you'll be able to tell if the musicians can actually play their songs, and you might get improvisation (phish?) or just the band changing up songs from the time they were initially recorded. The point of live albums isn't to give a better quality recording than a studio recording, or else noone would ever record in studios/hire producers.

Then again you are obviously trolling, so this is entirely pointless to point out.

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Originally Posted by Anarkial

And back on topic so this thread doesn't get Van Dammed - Why do we have this thread? Really, what's the point any more?

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Flac convo's in the BITTORRENT section of a file-sharing board? Entirely pointless.

If anyone still doubts the advantages of live bootlegs or performances vs. recorded/mastered copies; just listen to the difference between a band's performance (like say Dream Theater in Metropolis 2) on album, and on tour (they actually released one of their high profile performances as a New York concert disc). The quality/emotion flowing of the music is significantly different.

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Originally Posted by 1000possibleclaws

Live bootlegs capture elements you won't find in (over)produced studio-work. Also you'll be able to tell if the musicians can actually play their songs, and you might get improvisation (phish?) or just the band changing up songs from the time they were initially recorded. The point of live albums isn't to give a better quality recording than a studio recording, or else noone would ever record in studios/hire producers.

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It'll sound silly, but watch the video of the live performance of Yoda, by Weird Al Yankovic, on youtube. It demonstrates how little of the artist we can see on an album, versus a live performance. Watch it through the "break" to see the essence of improvisation. That video actually gave me a lot more respect for W.A.Y., after seeing how full that performance is. A perennial showman who is a master of chemistry with his audience. And that chemistry will never be translated through the cheese grater of "mastering".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=810638fCvrQ