Trump calls it quits

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

I seem to recall a comment from you when I suggested that American biker patriotism saved Harley Davidson.
Almost certainly I did...my disdain for HD runs deep.
While I find it odd that it would take us 10 years to produce a craft suitable for the task 4 decades after we did it with less computing power than found in a mid nineties automobile, I wholehearted believe that the private sector would never have achieved this, for the profit reason you pointed to.
The moon landing is a sterling example of the kind of project that only a government can pull off, mainly because of the lack of an immediately apparent profit path.
There certainly was a wealth of money to be made off the various technologies that the space effort produced however.

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Originally Posted by clocker

America morphed from making durable goods into making money and the further from the physical, the better.
Why make a widget when a credit default swap is so much easier and more profitable?

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Can't disagree much with that.

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It's the mantra of our times.
"Easy, cheap & profitable" defines the new American entrepreneur.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

I seem to recall a comment from you when I suggested that American biker patriotism saved Harley Davidson.
Almost certainly I did...my disdain for HD runs deep.

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I had a moment of boredom to fill, this was what I was trying to recall.

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Originally Posted by clocker

The whole concept of "Buy American" has always escaped me.
To knowingly and willfully invest in a substandard product seems like the very antithesis of being American.

Don't get me started on Harley Davidson...my hatred is deep and boundless.

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On a side note, re. the subject of that thread, it appears that the bailout worked. I make no comment as to the quality of the product, but at least one section of American manufacturing is still running today because of government emergency loans. I use loan instead of bailout because it is being payed back (apparently with interest, so the taxpayer is going to make on the deal).

Harley is a special case and I refrain from using them as an exemplar of American tech.
HD builds inferior crap because that's what their customers want, not because they can't do any better.

I'll bemoan the quality of american made products too.

Not everything. You've got as good small businesses and craftsmen as any, but some of the large production factory-made stuff is as bad as crap out of Hong Kong or mainland China (not saying crap is all they make either, mind you).

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Originally Posted by clocker

we basically invented mass production and were certainly the first society to really enjoy the fruits of said production.

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Err, no.

I wouldn't argue with the rest though, other than to say that putting profits above all else is getting all too common elsewhere, too, sometimes with american influences speeding that up.



But be all that as it may, the fact that Donald Trump gets taken seriously in the political arena by anyone reads like some kind of joke. He's a mentalist. But then again, so is Ron Paul, and half the internets loved him the last time around.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by clocker

we basically invented mass production and were certainly the first society to really enjoy the fruits of said production.

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Err, no.

I wouldn't argue with the rest though, other than to say that putting profits above all else is getting all too common elsewhere, too, sometimes with american influences speeding that up.

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So, we Americans shouldn't claim credit for ruining the entire planet, rather better to just suffer the blame for having done it?

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by clocker

we basically invented mass production and were certainly the first society to really enjoy the fruits of said production.

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Err, no.

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Explain, please.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by Snee

Err, no.

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Explain, please.

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The industrial revolution, my good man. When you say "mass production", and "first" I think of british canneries and the like. Not saying Henry Ford or his conveyor belts weren't brilliant, or owt, though.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

So, we Americans shouldn't claim credit for ruining the entire planet, rather better to just suffer the blame for having done it?

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Bit of a leap from one to the other, but if that's you want to take from that, why not?

On a slightly less vague note, I do think that America's influence on ways of doing business and financial policies around the world is huge. Not everywhere, but enough so it seems that it, as a nation, should take some of the blame for turning the world more towards a more callous kind of capitalism (or capitalism at all)*. Personally, I think that had gotten even more noticeable under Trump. But then again, maybe I'm overestimating what he could have done for or to America and in extension the rest of the world.

*Not that the EU isn't doing its part.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by clocker

Explain, please.

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The industrial revolution, my good man. When you say "mass production", and "first" I think of british canneries and the like. Not saying Henry Ford or his conveyor belts weren't brilliant, or owt, though.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

So, we Americans shouldn't claim credit for ruining the entire planet, rather better to just suffer the blame for having done it?

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Bit of a leap from one to the other, but if that's you want to take from that, why not?

On a slightly less vague note, I do think that America's influence on ways of doing business and financial policies around the world is huge. Not everywhere, but enough so it seems that it, as a nation, should take some of the blame for turning the world more towards a more callous kind of capitalism (or capitalism at all)*. Personally, I think that had gotten even more noticeable under Trump. But then again, maybe I'm overestimating what he could have done for or to America and in extension the rest of the world.

*Not that the EU isn't doing its part.

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That you would even think to say "turning the world more towards a more callous kind of capitalism...under Trump" is a pretty solid indication of the pervasive type of mis-perception that prevails in your neck of the woods, Snee.

That last part is the worst, though - "under Trump"?

Egad.

Snny Snee is correct Kev. You are looking at the U.S. from the inside. The rest of the world has the opposite view.(nothing like stating the obvious:) ). From my experience 'outsiders' percieve the U.S. the same as many Americans percieve Texans(sorry Skiz :)), loud, abrasive, intrusive and railroading at every opportunity. A statement I heard often in my sojourns to your part of the world was. 'You can always tell a Texan, Nothing'.

If you ever wonder why the U.S.(At the moment) is reviled by the rest of the world, the above statement will give you a rough idea.

p.s. I have some friends who are American(Not anymore!.:rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by bigboab

Snny Snee is correct Kev. You are looking at the U.S. from the inside. The rest of the world has the opposite view.(nothing like stating the obvious:) ). From my experience 'outsiders' percieve the U.S. the same as many Americans percieve Texans(sorry Skiz :)), loud, abrasive, intrusive and railroading at every opportunity. A statement I heard often in my sojourns to your part of the world was. 'You can always tell a Texan, Nothing'.

If you ever wonder why the U.S.(At the moment) is reviled by the rest of the world, the above statement will give you a rough idea.

p.s. I have some friends who are American(Not anymore!.:rolleyes:)

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Off-point, Robert.

What's this "Under Trump" deal?

Is he 'over' something?

Something I don't know about?

Is he being prosecuted, over there?

Sounds like he should be...if not, why not?

Can't you deal with Trump?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

What's this "Under Trump" deal?

Is he 'over' something?

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Besides overrated and overexposed?
Overtly racist?

Trump is a self-promoting caricature.

That is all.

Way to pee on 9's hope there, Kev, Trump was his dream candidate.
I'm guessing he moves to Santorum now.

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Originally Posted by clocker

Way to pee on 9's hope there, Kev, Trump was his dream candidate.
I'm guessing he moves to Santorum now.

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Only now is he "moving out to college". It might take him a year or two before he tries santorum

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Snee

The industrial revolution, my good man. When you say "mass production", and "first" I think of british canneries and the like. Not saying Henry Ford or his conveyor belts weren't brilliant, or owt, though.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

So, we Americans shouldn't claim credit for ruining the entire planet, rather better to just suffer the blame for having done it?

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Bit of a leap from one to the other, but if that's you want to take from that, why not?

On a slightly less vague note, I do think that America's influence on ways of doing business and financial policies around the world is huge. Not everywhere, but enough so it seems that it, as a nation, should take some of the blame for turning the world more towards a more callous kind of capitalism (or capitalism at all)*. Personally, I think that had gotten even more noticeable under Trump. But then again, maybe I'm overestimating what he could have done for or to America and in extension the rest of the world.

*Not that the EU isn't doing its part.

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That you would even think to say "turning the world more towards a more callous kind of capitalism...under Trump" is a pretty solid indication of the pervasive type of mis-perception that prevails in your neck of the woods, Snee.

That last part is the worst, though - "under Trump"?

Egad.

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:blink: Under. As in with with him somewhat in charge of the USA. Or, at least influencing your policies the same way other presidents have done.

As for the rest, to name an example of callous capitalism: Over here, the concept of being guilty until proven innocent was a largely uncommon idea, legally speaking. But thanks to primarily american owned companies pressuring and lobbying, an addendum to our copyright laws was made allowing companies to start sending out letters demanding huge and disproportional fines for file piracy, and suing people through civil court.

The proposal for what I'm talking about came through the EU (although also originally heavily influenced by american companies and willed into being by the same), but the implementation of it (to a harsher extent than asked for by the EU) had companies pouring money into lobbying our politicians into making the "correct" decision. It was also passed without being put to a vote, which is still strange to some of us (although understandable, as they'd never gotten it passed otherwise).

But that's really just an example, another one would be what Bob mentions about Trump in Scotland.

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential, and can get away with things I'm not comfortable with, just by pouring money at the right targets. This in turn probably means that other companies will band together and follow suit to stay competitive.

And speaking of banding together, I'm pretty sure we'd not have the EU, or the EU playing as big a part, in our lives without the US needing to be countered.

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Originally Posted by Snee

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential...

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You're referring to multinational corporations, they pledge allegiance to profit, not America.

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Originally Posted by Snee

:blink: Under. As in with with him somewhat in charge of the USA. Or, at least influencing your policies the same way other presidents have done.

As for the rest, to name an example of callous capitalism: Over here, the concept of being guilty until proven innocent was a largely uncommon idea, legally speaking. But thanks to primarily american owned companies pressuring and lobbying, an addendum to our copyright laws was made allowing companies to start sending out letters demanding huge and disproportional fines for file piracy, and suing people through civil court.

The proposal for what I'm talking about came through the EU (although also originally heavily influenced by american companies and willed into being by the same), but the implementation of it (to a harsher extent than asked for by the EU) had companies pouring money into lobbying our politicians into making the "correct" decision. It was also passed without being put to a vote, which is still strange to some of us (although understandable, as they'd never gotten it passed otherwise).

But that's really just an example, another one would be what Bob mentions about Trump in Scotland.

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential, and can get away with things I'm not comfortable with, just by pouring money at the right targets. This in turn probably means that other companies will band together and follow suit to stay competitive.

And speaking of banding together, I'm pretty sure we'd not have the EU, or the EU playing as big a part, in our lives without the US needing to be countered.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by Snee

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential...

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You're referring to multinational corporations, they pledge allegiance to profit, not America.

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Yeah, that ^.

Snee:

How do you feel about George Soros?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

How do you feel about George Soros?

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He is hated because of his political leanings. If it wasn't for them he would be a conservative hero of Reagan proportions.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by j2k4

How do you feel about George Soros?

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He is hated because of his political leanings. If it wasn't for them he would be a conservative hero of Reagan proportions.

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He is "hated"?

By whom?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

He is "hated"?

By whom?

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By Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers, for starters.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

He is "hated"?

By whom?

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By Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers, for starters.

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Were they who devilsadvocate was referring to?

No clue.
How do you feel about Soros?

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Originally Posted by clocker

Way to pee on 9's hope there, Kev, Trump was his dream candidate.
I'm guessing he moves to Santorum now.

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No. Ron Paul.

He doesn't stand a chance, either, but could you just imagine for a few seconds what it would be like it he did become president?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

He is hated because of his political leanings. If it wasn't for them he would be a conservative hero of Reagan proportions.

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He is "hated"?

By whom?

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Glenn Beck and Michael Savage hate him.

If what they say about him is correct, the word treason comes to mind.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

Glenn Beck and Michael Savage hate him.

If what they say about him is correct, the word treason comes to mind.

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Have you bothered to find out or is their word good enough for you?

If Glenn Beck liked me, I'd but a bullet in my abdomen, and let myself bleed out in a gutter.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

If Glenn Beck liked me, I'd but a bullet in my abdomen, and let myself bleed out in a gutter.

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And reduce the surplus population.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by 999969999

Glenn Beck and Michael Savage hate him.

If what they say about him is correct, the word treason comes to mind.

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Have you bothered to find out or is their word good enough for you?

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As far as I can tell, from everything I have read about him so far, they're right about him. And that's from two people who hate each other. Michael Savage and Glenn Beck don't get along with each other at all.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

As far as I can tell, from everything I have read about him so far, they're right about him. And that's from two people who hate each other. Michael Savage and Glenn Beck don't get along with each other at all.

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What have you read? Were they credible fact orientated sources or the usual kind we see you quote here? Remember there is a difference between accusation and guilt.

Next I'd love to read your explanation as to the significance of Beck and Savage not getting along giving factual weight to their opinions.


You've, by default, accused a man of treason, a capital crime. All you've offered as evidence is hearsay,without actually saying what was said, from two people of dubious mental stability who, publicly at least, appear divorced from reality.

I for one would like to know what you think he did that warrants this serious charge and what evidence you have as proof.


Make your case. Seeing as you are soon to be a student of higher learning I expect the accusation to actually fit the definition of the crime you have accused him of.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by Snee

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential...

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You're referring to multinational corporations, they pledge allegiance to profit, not America.

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Fair point. America has made it easy for them to become what they are, though, by (in my opinion) slack regulations, and sometimes direct support in what I'd deem unfair business practices. For instance I read some bit about stuff on wikileaks about representatives of the US helping Lockheed, I think it was, in that norwegian airplane deal (F35 vs JAS, google it if you're curious), by screwing with supply lines for componentry for the competitor and perhaps applying a bit of pressure elsewhere as well.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by Snee

Point is, american companies have grown a bit too huge and influential...

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You're referring to multinational corporations, they pledge allegiance to profit, not America.

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Yeah, that ^.

Snee:

How do you feel about George Soros?

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Not (been interested enough to) read much about him. Seems like he likes to meddle, has made money off the misfortunes of others, but has given a fair bit back. Bad guy or good guy I'm not quite sure. I don't think he'd really given away his fortune to get rid of Bush, but it sounded good.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

If Glenn Beck liked me, I'd but a bullet in my abdomen, and let myself bleed out in a gutter.

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And reduce the surplus population.

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Too early to tell, as I've already implanted my seeds into your mother. We'll learn soon if she was fertile.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by j2k4

How do you feel about George Soros?

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Not (been interested enough to) read much about him. Seems like he likes to meddle, has made money off the misfortunes of others, but has given a fair bit back. Bad guy or good guy I'm not quite sure. I don't think he'd really given away his fortune to get rid of Bush, but it sounded good.

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"Not been interested enough to read much about him"?

I have a vague recollection of your bowels being in an uproar over the activities of a fellow named Murdoch.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Not (been interested enough to) read much about him. Seems like he likes to meddle, has made money off the misfortunes of others, but has given a fair bit back. Bad guy or good guy I'm not quite sure. I don't think he'd really given away his fortune to get rid of Bush, but it sounded good.

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"Not been interested enough to read much about him"?

I have a vague recollection of your bowels being in an uproar over the activities of a fellow named Murdoch.

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You've got the quoting all backwards, it's a quickie mindfuck.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by j2k4

"Not been interested enough to read much about him"?

I have a vague recollection of your bowels being in an uproar over the activities of a fellow named Murdoch.

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You've got the quoting all backwards, it's a quickie mindfuck.

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Ah, thanks - let's see if I can fix that...

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Snee

Not (been interested enough to) read much about him. Seems like he likes to meddle, has made money off the misfortunes of others, but has given a fair bit back. Bad guy or good guy I'm not quite sure. I don't think he'd really given away his fortune to get rid of Bush, but it sounded good.

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"Not been interested enough to read much about him"?

I have a vague recollection of your bowels being in an uproar over the activities of a fellow named Murdoch.

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I can't actually recall. Was billy on the other side of the argument?

Sometimes I just argued to see if he'd explode.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by j2k4

"Not been interested enough to read much about him"?

I have a vague recollection of your bowels being in an uproar over the activities of a fellow named Murdoch.

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I can't actually recall. Was billy on the other side of the argument?

Sometimes I just argued to see if he'd explode.

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Can't recall any Soros mentions in BD's presence, but.

Me, too - how do we know he didn't, eventually?

It wouldn't have been very noisy; just a short-lived stain on the beach at Cairns.

Edging closer *






















*gratuitous post...this has to end sometime.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

I knew it was a long shot with Trump, but he was the only one I was actually enthused about voting for. He was the only one who would even dare mention the word TARIFF and the only one who wanted to stand up against China.

With him out of the way, I'm throwing all my support to Ron Paul. He's the only current candidate I can stomach. If he doesn't win the primay, and at this point it looks like a long shot, I may end up not even voting at all in 2012.

At this point, it looks almost certain that Obama will get in again for another 4 years. The economy is rebounding. The birther issue has been squashed.

I still wonder what he will do about the 14 trillion dollars of debt. Oh wait! I know! Why not raise taxes! That's what lies ahead. Massive tax increases.

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Hmmmm... seems like Trump ended up winning. How about that?

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Originally Posted by OlegL back in 2011

Trump is like a clown; if he changes his mind and decides to run for President, he won't get elected. I really hope that Obama will get re-elected.

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Damn right Oleg, there's more chance of you getting your end away that Trump becoming Pres... oh never mind :emo:

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Originally Posted by OlegL

Trump is like a clown; if he changes his mind and decides to run for President, he won't get elected. I really hope that Obama will get re-elected.

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I am against Obama now. I heard Obamacare sucks.