Like i said, it's all so simple really :blink: ----->finally gets it :D It was a joke right ? :unsure:
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Like i said, it's all so simple really :blink: ----->finally gets it :D It was a joke right ? :unsure:
I dont know but I like pizza!
Peace brotherdoobie
Quantum Mechanics and Newtonian Physics aren't my strongest subjects, but, this paragraph from a book dedicated by Wheeler is brilliant .
"Behind it all is surely an idea so simple, so beautiful, so compelling, that when - in a decade, a century, or a millenium we grasp it, we will all say to each other, how could it be otherwise? How could we have been so stupid for so long? ..... to the still unknown person(s) who will further illuminate the magic of the strange and beautiful world of ours by discovering. How come the quantum? How come the existence?"
I just bumped this because I can't have the last post on Tuesday by Wednesday. It was confusing me. :unsure:
According to m-theory, the big bang may have been the result of two colliding universes in m-space. What set of the creation of those universes, or those that came before them or...is a bit more to think about.
I totally agree. I think when your time is over you will find yourself sitting at the side of a giant chess board. You can only hope that the queen does not go first.Quote:
Originally posted by h4mx0r@11 November 2003 - 05:29
somehow I think we dont exist at all. Life is some illusion that is somewhat a huge multiplayer game or something. No, Im not saying the matrix, but something like that. (without the robots and computers and stuff)
Aren't the aboriginals in Aussie-Land talking about "dream-time", you know, we are all in someone else's dream. :)
Come Snny! Get away to your Grandads. On your way back Book a ticket to come over here after Xmas. Mrs Bigboab and I are getting new ones, I can see problems arising. Her whole family can not see the point in algebra. :D
:lol: It would be a change of scenery at least, though I sometimes doubt people around these parts would be able to operate their tv's, videos, videogames, computers and cellphones without me :rolleyes:
We seem to have had a thread-shift here. :blink:Quote:
Originally posted by bigboab@11 November 2003 - 13:22
Come Snny! Get away to your Grandads. On your way back Book a ticket to come over here after Xmas. Mrs Bigboab and I are getting new ones, I can see problems arising. Her whole family can not see the point in algebra. :D
Is this a new slant on the super-string theory? Or just random thoughts materialising out of nowhere? :lol:
Greetings, lynx! :)Quote:
Originally posted by lynx@11 November 2003 - 13:28
We seem to have had a thread-shift here. :blink:
I tried to shift the thread earlier; it seems my efforts were premature.
Glad Snny & bigboab have finally succeeded. :D
J2k4-Your efforts were fine. I had thought of posting something along those lines, but glad I didn't. You pulled it off way better than I could have. Anyway, thanks for the laugh. :P
Why, thank you. :DQuote:
Originally posted by MediaSlayer@11 November 2003 - 14:12
J2k4-Your efforts were fine. I had thought of posting something along those lines, but glad I didn't. You pulled it off way better than I could have. Anyway, thanks for the laugh. :P
You know, it's odd:
When I was in my late teens or early twenties, I would have gotten on the original train and proceeded with much haste to the engine, just so I could be the "engineer". :(
These days I find it preferable to wave as the train leaves the station so I can get home to the important stuff.
So, if everyone will both excuse the expression and resist the urge to take it as a double entendre:
Big Bang, My Ass!!
HA! that's a sober imageQuote:
Originally posted by j2k4@11 November 2003 - 18:22
These days I find it preferable to wave as the train leaves the station
but to be honest, these days I tend to do the same thing myself :P
In a Primeaval form? Before the Big Bang Theory that is.Quote:
Originally posted by UKMan@10 November 2003 - 19:44
My own personal opinion is that the answer is so simple, it defies logic:
Space has allways been there and there was nothing before that because it has allways existed!
I believe that "God" is an explanation of something we can't explain.
In a Primeaval form? Before the Big Bang Theory that is.Quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday+12 November 2003 - 13:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wednesday @ 12 November 2003 - 13:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-UKMan@10 November 2003 - 19:44
My own personal opinion is that the answer is so simple, it defies logic:
Space has allways been there and there was nothing before that because it has allways existed!
I believe that "God" is an explanation of something we can't explain. [/b][/quote]
No, not in a primeaval form. I mean it has allways existed - there never was any beginning, only to our own galaxy of course, but not to the whole universe. The universe (IMHO) was allways there, so there has never been a beginning so therefore no primeaval form either.
There again, i suppose you could conclude that our own galaxy or part of it was formed by some big-bang - a creation of sorts. These big-bangs have been happening since who knows when - a continuous creation of galaxies through time.
Your views about God are widely shared with many. Many think that we (the human race) have created him just to justify our existance and give us a meaning to life. The only thing that i cannot comprehend in that theori is that i cannot accept that life and nature and everything we see and feel and experience has no purpose. Its a common enough ego trip i suppose, but thats my thoughts anyway. Its too beautifull to be non-essential to something.
Peace
UKMan
Thats the same type of circular logic that "Proves" a bullet cant kill a man running away.Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced+10 November 2003 - 21:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 10 November 2003 - 21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-UKMan@10 November 2003 - 20:30
I once tried to understand the following theory:
Divide something in two indefinately - that must be possible, because you cant divide something into two nothings. That kinda explains our limitations.
It has to travel half the distance, by which time the target has moved...etc etc into infinity.
Think i'll stick to my knowledge that i'd die.... :huh:
[/b][/quote]
Yes, all based on the paradox of Zeno ( he used a turtle in his original text :lol: )
Modern maths solved that with limits, you know, that 8 on its side.
Yes, all based on the paradox of Zeno ( he used a turtle in his original text :lol: )Quote:
Originally posted by Skweeky+12 November 2003 - 16:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Skweeky @ 12 November 2003 - 16:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Faced@10 November 2003 - 21:35
<!--QuoteBegin-UKMan
Quote:
@10 November 2003 - 20:30
I once tried to understand the following theory:
Divide something in two indefinately - that must be possible, because you cant divide something into two nothings. That kinda explains our limitations.
Thats the same type of circular logic that "Proves" a bullet cant kill a man running away.
It has to travel half the distance, by which time the target has moved...etc etc into infinity.
Think i'll stick to my knowledge that i'd die.... :huh:
Modern maths solved that with limits, you know, that 8 on its side. [/b][/quote]
Ahh the good old Co-op :D
How far can you run from the co-op with something you've stolen before someone catches up with you - i'm beginning to understand :blink:
Peace
UKCo-opMan
Until you run out of breath? (and what is a co-op??? :huh: )
nice subject i think this comes in with my theory that things can always get bigger an things can always get smaller and within all that there will always be matter so there is no begining and no end so no start or no end :blink: :blink: mind mashingQuote:
Originally posted by UKMan@10 November 2003 - 19:44
If you believe in the Big Bang theory, then explain what came before that - and in that case, what came before that. If you dont, then what is your opinion or belief?
My own personal opinion is that the answer is so simple, it defies logic:
Space has allways been there and there was nothing before that because it has allways existed!
I also believe that (if there is a God/Creator/Thing/Entity/Whatever - whatever your definition is) - he is only OUR God/etc/etc and that other Gods/etc/etc exist in other universies or/and Galaxies.
Please keep this on a nice level with good deap discussions and no trashing please. Everyone has a right to their own opinion without being flamed - including lil'ol'me :D :lol:
Peace
UKSpaceMan
The sign for the co-op (a food store chain) is the 8 on its side - it is or was one of the first food stores in the UK that gave out stamps on every purchase and that you collected to save up and buy stuff with - ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Skweeky@12 November 2003 - 16:15
Until you run out of breath? (and what is a co-op??? :huh: )
Yeah. Most humans really don't like coming to terms with that one. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Lamsey+10 November 2003 - 19:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey @ 10 November 2003 - 19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MediaSlayer@10 November 2003 - 19:52
When I asked what happens when you die, he said we just "go into the dirt". In other words, nothing happens, your existance is over.
so do u think that being dead is like not being born yet coz i do
nice subject i think this comes in with my theory that things can always get bigger an things can always get smaller and within all that there will always be matter so there is no begining and no end so no start or no end :blink: :blink: mind mashing [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by creamer+12 November 2003 - 16:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (creamer @ 12 November 2003 - 16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-UKMan@10 November 2003 - 19:44
If you believe in the Big Bang theory, then explain what came before that - and in that case, what came before that. If you dont, then what is your opinion or belief?
My own personal opinion is that the answer is so simple, it defies logic:
Space has allways been there and there was nothing before that because it has allways existed!
I also believe that (if there is a God/Creator/Thing/Entity/Whatever - whatever your definition is) - he is only OUR God/etc/etc and that other Gods/etc/etc exist in other universies or/and Galaxies.
Please keep this on a nice level with good deap discussions and no trashing please. Everyone has a right to their own opinion without being flamed - including lil'ol'me :D :lol:
Peace
UKSpaceMan
Hello creamer - dont think we've met - thx for joining in :)
Peace
UKMan
THe black stuff is nothingness so how can they be an end to something that is not thereQuote:
Originally posted by Rotten_Apple@10 November 2003 - 22:33
OK, i got a Q?
Here we are - an imaginary fly in the universe. we are sitting on that singularity when it goes "POP" :rolleyes:
Now as we know the universe is expanding - so lets just flap our little flywings and fly off to the furthest most piece of matter from the epicenter of the "big Bang"
If you look away from this epicenter what would you see?
Would there just be blackness? and if so where is its boundery?
Who cares about the "matter" of the universe... I wanna know about the BLACK stuff...
Hello creamer - dont think we've met - thx for joining in :)Quote:
Originally posted by UKMan+12 November 2003 - 15:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (UKMan @ 12 November 2003 - 15:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by creamer@12 November 2003 - 16:22
<!--QuoteBegin-UKMan
Quote:
@10 November 2003 - 19:44
If you believe in the Big Bang theory, then explain what came before that - and in that case, what came before that. If you dont, then what is your opinion or belief?
My own personal opinion is that the answer is so simple, it defies logic:
Space has allways been there and there was nothing before that because it has allways existed!
I also believe that (if there is a God/Creator/Thing/Entity/Whatever - whatever your definition is) - he is only OUR God/etc/etc and that other Gods/etc/etc exist in other universies or/and Galaxies.
Please keep this on a nice level with good deap discussions and no trashing please. Everyone has a right to their own opinion without being flamed - including lil'ol'me :D :lol:
Peace
UKSpaceMan
nice subject i think this comes in with my theory that things can always get bigger an things can always get smaller and within all that there will always be matter so there is no begining and no end so no start or no end :blink: :blink: mind mashing
Peace
UKMan [/b][/quote]
u allright dude, i dont know if this makes sense, but anyone who does come near to any of thses questions will end up in a metal instatute never 2 be heard
:blink: im sacred now :(
Greetings, lynx! :)Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+11 November 2003 - 19:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 11 November 2003 - 19:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@11 November 2003 - 13:28
We seem to have had a thread-shift here. :blink:
I tried to shift the thread earlier; it seems my efforts were premature.
Glad Snny & bigboab have finally succeeded. :D [/b][/quote]
One tries one's best. :)
EDit: Though I'm not sure whether the big bang theory is sound I believe that even though the universe may have been around before this hypothetical event, there may have been some form of transition phase in the nature of the universe at some point.
I believe I've read that there is evidence of an altering rate of vibration-frequencies within particles, the laws of physics are dependent of this, meaning that they are constantly changing, the change is of course so subtle as to not be noticable, but it is still there.
@stupidguy: you're sacred??? :blink:
It has been proposed that the big bang theory can be explained by superstring theory as a "theory of everything". What it does not seem to address is the different forces in the universe.
The known forces are:
gravity - a relatively weak force whose effect is detectable over vast distances;
electromagnetic forces - much stronger than gravity but with a relatively short range;
the weak nuclear force - much stronger again, but whose effect does not even reach beyond the nucleus;
the strong nuclear force - stronger again, but it's effect does not even escape from the prime nuclear building blocks of protons and neutrons.
Anyone see a pattern here?
The last two of these forces are so short ranged that we cannot even detect them directly, though we obviously see their effects and the energy which is unleashed when they are broken. We are unaware of what forces may be involved in combining quarks, mesons, etc to form nuclear particles, but following the pattern shown above it is reasonable to assume that such a force would be far greater than the strong nuclear force, but it's effective range would be so small as to be almost ineffectual. But such a force is almost certain to exist.
All these forces seem to have one thing in common - they are very successful at holding together the things they are supposed to hold together. But we seem to suggest that gravity is different and is not doing it's job, and that the universe is therefore expanding. Perhaps it is not gravity's job. But if we look at other things in the atomic world, we see one other common thing amongst all the particles. They all spin and vibrate.
What limits these vibrations? I certainly don't know, but it is not necessarily sensible to assume that the forces they are vibrating against cause the limitation, since that would require the assumption that the force increases with distance under certain circumstances. So perhaps it is logical to assume a model like a planetary body in an elliptical orbit. Indeed, could the elliptical orbits of planets, stars etc be taken as the vibration at gravitational level?
Perhaps the universe vibrates too. At the moment we may be seeing an outward phase of the vibration. If so, this will be followed by an inward vibrational phase. Following the conditions placed on smaller bodies, it would not be sensible to assume that gravity would be the limiting factor for such a vibration, but perhaps there is another force of which we are not aware. If it exists it's rate of change could be so small that we may not be able to detect it. We have not so far detected the force which holds sub-atomic particles together, perhaps this is another such force.
I like this idea far more as a "theory of everything".
lynx:
Ive seen somewhere a theori that the universe actually vibrates at a given frequency. What frequency that is, i cant remember.
I have a question for you. Where do we draw the line between examining under the surface and what we actually see. In other words, could the Old Testament have been written in another way? Is the Book Of Revelations in actual fact a Science Fact sheet?
Peace
UKMan
so if the big bang does exist will it affect anything else in our lives or will it just be a theory 'proved right '
@lynxie: why the string-theory still?, I thought it was outdated/changed to m-theory.
(with the addition of one dimension from the supergravity-theory, the strings have become part of a membrane, floating among other membranes/universes in m-space.)
@UKman: I don't know about the science, but the bible certainly seems to contain instructions for building a society, the best way possible in those days.
Not a christian myself though, so i'm on uncertain ground here :unsure:
I wasn't proposing that the super-string theory (which is still popular depending on the academic circles) was any good, indeed I was pointing out one of it's shortfalls. I don't know much about m-theory, but if one of the propositions is a super-gravity that seems to partly fit in with what I was suggesting.
However, I was suggesting that we are currently seeing the expansionist part of a vibration, rather than an expansion from nothing, and will be followed by a contracting phase of the vibration. The resulting conclusion is that the universe has always existed.
Course it took you 5 years to save enough stamps for a tin of beans. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by UKMan@12 November 2003 - 15:22
The sign for the co-op (a food store chain) is the 8 on its side - it is or was one of the first food stores in the UK that gave out stamps on every purchase and that you collected to save up and buy stuff with - ;)
Course it took you 5 years to save enough stamps for a tin of beans. :lol: [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday+12 November 2003 - 23:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wednesday @ 12 November 2003 - 23:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-UKMan@12 November 2003 - 15:22
The sign for the co-op (a food store chain) is the 8 on its side - it is or was one of the first food stores in the UK that gave out stamps on every purchase and that you collected to save up and buy stuff with - ;)
Yeah - dont that just p*ss you off :(
Snny: Good point.
lynx: was Christ a space dude from the future warning us of our destiny? Just a question that i have often wondered about.
Peace
UKMan
What about temperature and stress? as per Kepler's universal harmony theoryQuote:
Originally posted by lynx@12 November 2003 - 20:09
What limits these vibrations? I certainly don't know, but it is not necessarily sensible to assume that the forces they are vibrating against cause the limitation, since that would require the assumption that the force increases with distance under certain circumstances. So perhaps it is logical to assume a model like a planetary body in an elliptical orbit. Indeed, could the elliptical orbits of planets, stars etc be taken as the vibration at gravitational level?
there is another force of which we are not aware. If it exists it's rate of change could be so small that we may not be able to detect it. We have not so far detected the force which holds sub-atomic particles together, perhaps this is another such force.
Exactly. What about it? :blink:Quote:
Originally posted by Wednesday@12 November 2003 - 22:48
What about temperature and stress? as per Kepler's universal harmony theory
Thats too funny :lol:
I should not have read this thread so late at night, i'm never going to get to sleep now with how my mind's sorting through all the info everyone's posted lol
@ UKMan - "lynx: was Christ a space dude from the future warning us of our destiny? Just a question that i have often wondered about" - Perhap's that might explaine the idea of his rebirth? Born in the future only to die in the past just to be born in the future and on and on, meaning there would be an infinite loop in space and time where everything has actually already happened and will happen again and again. I'm not going to even attempt to take that any further as i'll just end up confusing myself and probably everyone else along with me lol
Concerning the Big Bang, if space alway's existed then it must alway's have been occupied in one form or another (and I don't mean by life as such, not even by planets or atom's or partical's etc) for the Big Bang to have taken place, but if that's the case then where did space and the required elements for the Big Bang come from? .... trying to pull my mind back together here as I can feel it trying to escape out my ears thinking about this lol ..... If space did not exist though, then there must have been something else for it to come into existence, and if that is true then what came before space?
Was the Big Bang responsible for the existence of space and everything in it, or was space somehow responsible for the Big Bang?
I do not believe that anyone will ever find out how it all started, what was before and what will be after.
Now concerning the vibration's theory, just a little something that I wondered when I read that (i'd heard it before but didn't wonder about this) - what if someone discovered the exact frequency of the vibration's and was able to reproduce them and interupted them? Would space collapse in on itself, would the past, present and future all collapse into one single moment in time where everything and everyone from all those tenses exist at exactly the same moment in time, or would time actually be altered in anyway due to the ripples in the vibration's that would most likely happen causing the past, present and future to all be altered at exactly the same moment?
Ok, my head's totaly f'd now and soz if i've totaly screwed up my meaning's and fact's in my comment's and question's lol :-)
!Very! interesting thread UKMan, also very confusing and brain melting lol :-)
Sniper.
there is a very interesting NOVA episode on string theory, check it out. NOVA
Nice link - thx - next 3 hours of boredom are saved ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Wallace_Askew@13 November 2003 - 05:46
there is a very interesting NOVA episode on string theory, check it out. NOVA
Allthough i am more interested in what us laymen think, this is probably very good background stuff - i hope.
Peace
UKMan