Well shave my legs and call me a sinner. :ph34r:
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Well shave my legs and call me a sinner. :ph34r:
FatBastard
your reading comprehension seems pretty low or you haven't seen/used these words before, if you don't understand a word heres a good site http://www.m-w.com/home.htm please ask me any questions on what you don't understand, are you just being a troll?
Quote:
well..
First of all, the idea that downloading CDs is "theft" is complete BS. It is NOT theft. It is simply a violation of an arbitrary copyright law, nothing more nothing less. Theft requires the "victim" to be deprived of something. If I take your car, I am depriving you of your car. If I copy a song, I haven't deprived you of anything. The only thing you MAY have given up is the opportunity to sell me that song. If I would not have purchased the song in the first place, then you haven't even given up that. From an economics standpoint, copyrights and patents have absolutely NOTHING to do with "property" (the term intellectual property is a very recent one, frankly, the idea that you can own ideas is absurd); rather, copyrights and patents are simply a government granted monopoly to the holder of said copyright or patent.
Furthermore, over the past 100 years, copyright and patent law have been expanded WAY beyond their original intent. The ONLY justification for copyright and patent law is to encourage creativity and innovation. The moment that they begin to not have that effect (or to have the opposite effect, which is happening now), society needs to either repeal, dramatically weaken, or change those laws.
A good unbiased read on the history of "intellectual property" can be found here:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property99/history.html
as far as sinning thats between you and your god
That's OK Much, I'm used to you by now.Quote:
Originally posted by muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 20:29
Take no notice of me FB, I'm just being pedantic.
as I thought, you're just trolling for argument.
what bothers me is, you put up no reasoning behind your "stance". I clearly explain how copyright "infringement" and theft are too completely different things and yet you think otherwise, enlighten me on the differences, I clearly stated my reasoning, you put up none, its ok if you can't
I don't expect any rebuttal, mine as well just tell me to STFU :rolleyes:
otherwise explain yourself if you are serious.
I say downloading copyrighted material is theft, you say it isn't. You start with nothing, you end up with something you should have paid for, but you didn't. I also say it's illegal, do you dispute that too? Or has your pedantry no end?
didn't say it was legal, it isn't, but people have too want to vote & change the laws they deem inappropriate or unjust, all I'm saying is it only denies a person the right from selling it to me, so technically its not theft, not how the laws were intended.
as for a sin, between you and your god I don't believe downloading music can deny you the right in heaven, at least I hope not :/
YES IT IS!! [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by FatBastard+22 December 2003 - 00:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 22 December 2003 - 00:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 13:24
ITS NOT THEFT
no it's not cuz it's nothing more than man law what does'nt over see gods law :P
Hey, don't you remember the 11th commandment?
Quote:
Thou shalt not use Kazaa to download copyrighted material
hehe, i use bittorent! :PQuote:
Originally posted by Lamsey@22 December 2003 - 20:14
Hey, don't you remember the 11th commandment?
Quote:
Thou shalt not use Kazaa to download copyrighted material
Why are you entitled to movies, music, and games at no expense while those who create them, in hopes of making a living, get no compensation. (That is what you are taking, their potential income).
File sharing is wrong, no matter how you justify it.
If I spend 300 million to create a movie, people should not be allowed to transfer a single copy freely amongst each other and leave me without compensation.
If I am an independent adventure game company who releases a terrific game, why should people be able to play it for free as I file for bankrupcy?
What we are doing is morally and legally wrong, let us drop the pretense. Lie to yourselves if you can, but I cannot.
I find the convenience and variety of files available to be too good to pass up. P2P or any sort of internet distribution is the inevitable future and companies should learn to work with it rather than disrupt it.
Just like Blockbuster is allowed to rent any movie from any studio, similar franchises should be allowed online so that we can continue with the convenience and also reward those who have made the effort to create something enjoyable.
I will gladly switch over to a legit pay service, but at the moment this entity does not exist, and I continue to live in sin.
bullshit
you can get music online for 9.95 for the whole thing are 1.00 each, and soon you can rent full length movies, if not already, so spare me your high horse
don't buy in to the PSA's about downloading movies put people out of work, next you'll say it fund terrorism
Bullshit is not a counter argument, it is an emotional reaction.Quote:
Originally posted by muchspl2@22 December 2003 - 21:55
bullshit
you can get music online for 9.95 for the whole thing are 1.00 each, and soon you can rent full length movies, if not already, so spare me your high horse
don't buy in to the PSA's about downloading movies put people out of work, next you'll say it fund terrorism
Simply answer the question I posed. Why should you get it free? Why is that not stealing? Very simple, really.
Many independent video game companies have folded for exactly this reason. I encourage people to pay for their video games because they will only be hurting themselves longterm.
We all know that downloading that old song you heard from the 70's is not going to effect the financial outcome of that band. The real violation is when you exchange files before the creator has had a chance to collect his income (new releases).
High horse, hardly. I am just honest with myself and don't try to justify away my acts.
Prime example: Looking Glass Studios, creators of the Thief and System Shock series (some of the best games ever made). Folded.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 20:04
Many independent video game companies have folded for exactly this reason. I encourage people to pay for their video games because they will only be hurting themselves longterm.
Well, line one I could buy.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker+21 December 2003 - 20:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 21 December 2003 - 20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-uNz[i
,21 December 2003 - 12:05] Games, music and movies are all property.
All property is theft.
Theft is a sin.
So yes, you are a SINNER :o
You lost me at line two, though.
All games, music and movies are a sin?
Even Candyland? [/b][/quote]
Debbie does Iowa? :'(
yes your a sinner - but aint most of us here sinners anyway :P
as billy joel says - "i'd rather dance with the sinners than cry with the saints"
but what if you cry with the saints at a good sad movie
thats fun - crying is nice like that
In summary, it is both illegal and immoral. You will be roasting in hell, but take heart, all your forum buddies will be rotating on that spit of doom with you.
wow look who's talkin' ... a HYPOCRITE!!Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 11:48
Why are you entitled to movies, music, and games at no expense while those who create them, in hopes of making a living, get no compensation. (That is what you are taking, their potential income).
File sharing is wrong, no matter how you justify it.
If I spend 300 million to create a movie, people should not be allowed to transfer a single copy freely amongst each other and leave me without compensation.
If I am an independent adventure game company who releases a terrific game, why should people be able to play it for free as I file for bankrupcy?
What we are doing is morally and legally wrong, let us drop the pretense. Lie to yourselves if you can, but I cannot.
I find the convenience and variety of files available to be too good to pass up. P2P or any sort of internet distribution is the inevitable future and companies should learn to work with it rather than disrupt it.
Just like Blockbuster is allowed to rent any movie from any studio, similar franchises should be allowed online so that we can continue with the convenience and also reward those who have made the effort to create something enjoyable.
I will gladly switch over to a legit pay service, but at the moment this entity does not exist, and I continue to live in sin.
you condamn those who file share to burn in hell but u do it urself
hobbes that's the most pathetic statement i've seen coming from you. Not only have you disrespected members of this forum but you have dishonored and discredited yourself, what a shame.Quote:
In summary, it is both illegal and immoral. You will be roasting in hell, but take heart, all your forum buddies will be rotating on that spit of doom with you
yes, file sharing is illegal but the laws are only men made. The laws are only a set of rules that define the proper conduct of human being for being cruel to other human being in a civilized way.
the concept of copyright is really arbitrary. The idea of somebody owning a part of you eg bio companies owning rights to a part of human genome, or production company producing a really lame movie that doesn't deserve me spending 15 bucks in threater.
The p2p community is all about sharing, whether it be ideas or songs or movies or games or appz or whatever. It's kind of like the communist community only better. Illegal it may be but that's what defines us as a group. To deny that fact you deny yourself from this community and everything it stands for.
so fuck off with your hypocritical opinions <_<
I fully admitted that what I am doing is wrong, where is the hypocracy.
If Rockstar games takes 2 years to produce Grand Theft Auto- Vice City to sell 1 copy which is disseminated to 3 million users via the internet, they earn a gross of 40 dollars. Why would they ever make another game?
I make it a point to download old music but I have downloaded newer stuff because I like the song, but don't want the album (my bad). As for video games, I purchase them all from legit outlets because that market is so vulnerable (see Lamsey's post). At a certain point laws do become abit arbitrary, but when we download stuff which prevents the creator from getting paid for his efforts, we are stealing, and stealing is a sin.
I am not religious, so I do not care about "sinning", but I understand that getting enjoyment from a program, song or video, which deprives the creator from getting his financial due is simple theft.
Point 1: How am I hypocritical?
Point 2: How is this not theft?
edit: removed an incorrect statement
The way I see it, the fact that I'm downloading doesn't make a dent in someone's income, seeing as how I buy all I can afford, and then download the rest. OR, I search everywhere else, and then I download when I can't find it elsewhere.
I end up having not much money at all at the end of each month, but dammit, my conscience is clear. :D
we as the file sharing group, do not consider file sharing "stealing". We use a better term "sharing", sounds better than stealing but means the same thing.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@22 December 2003 - 15:23
I fully admitted that what I am doing is wrong, where is the hypocracy.
If Rockstar games takes 2 years to produce Grand Theft Auto- Vice City to sell 1 copy which is disseminated to 3 million users via the internet, they earn a gross of 40 dollars. Why would they ever make another game?
I make it a point to download old music but I have downloaded newer stuff because I like the song, but don't want the album (my bad). As for video games, I purchase them all from legit outlets because that market is so vulnerable (see Lamsey's post). At a certain point laws do become abit arbitrary, but when we download stuff which prevents the creator from getting paid for his efforts, we are stealing, and stealing is a sin.
I am not religious, so I do not care about "sinning", but I understand that getting enjoyment from a program, song or video, which deprives the creator from getting his financial due is simple theft.
Point 1: How am I hypocritical?
Point 2: How is this not theft?
edit: removed an incorrect statement
The very fact that we are even discussion this topic proves we feel what we are doing is wrong. and yes it is illegal.
but as I said this is what file sharing is all about: it's about sharing (includes original ideas as well as pirated materials). And i dont care if you share "OLD" stuff or "NEW" stuff, it's all the same. You admit u do it, fine, but dont make it look like you are higher than the rest of us, this is hypocracy.
The fact that game companies are continually to make games means despite all these priacy they are still making money selling the games. if they dont make nuff they wont make games at all. and from what i've seen, they are making plenty.
Happy Holidays
gee i dont know hobbes just the way to deliver ur words sometime is nuff to wage flames from fellow poster
same advice u gave me a long time ago now you need to relearn again.
it's ok i'll support u all the way.
:lol:
I have no problems with you just dont approve some of ur posts and ur views
otherwise it's all good :lol:
Jimmy,Quote:
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@23 December 2003 - 03:59
gee i dont know hobbes just the way to deliver ur words sometime is nuff to wage flames from fellow poster
same advice u gave me a long time ago now you need to relearn again.
it's ok i'll support u all the way.
:lol:
I have no problems with you just dont approve some of ur posts and ur views
otherwise it's all good :lol:
I really respect your opinion. You are rather volatile, but tend to be reasonable as well. I try to be fair, but sometimes tough in how I post.
I am always open to the fact that I may be or appear to be an ass. That is not my intention. Please feel free to PM me about what you think I need to be more aware of.
I consider myself to be your friend, but I will always respect your right to tell me I am being a jackass. Seems that I might be unaware that how I say something may be outweighed by how I say it.
Have a good holiday season.
do u guys watch mad tv? there was a thing in there bout music piracy. god blew up the kid that dled, and his coach who watched boys shower. lol. that was funny