Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.Quote:
Originally posted by evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?
ED
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Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.Quote:
Originally posted by evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?
ED
I have came of with a concept ina Jung-like conciousness that surrounds the planet...much like a force-field or the magnetic field of the earth...Quote:
Originally posted by gemby!@19 January 2004 - 22:33
if you believe in good karma and bad karma do you believe in reincarnatiion ?
and when you die..your escence get caught up in that....and time to time if the conditions are right you can influence the earth bound people..I dont think u necessarily remeber who you are or really have an identity seperate from this collective anymore..I guess the ones who wouldnt join could come back..the ones that stay (according to this theory) in the collective could say influence a child prodigy to playa piano if they were a great pianist in their former life....and i dont think u personally choose to do this...you dont remeber your mama or your friends nothing like that..In this concept you would just be another natural force..just like the weather and just as random...
Jung worked on this and A lab in England? has done experiments with mice and it seems that they are recieveing data from some outside force..( they took two groups of mice....ran one group thru a mace repeatedly...till they new it...killed said mice..took second group which were related to first group(litter mates) and THEY RAN IT FASTER then the first group evn tho they had never seen it! The second group hadnt died and been reborn so it wouldnt be reencarnation..closer to transmitted genetic memory) said mice were kept in seperated labs i believe more than a mile away))
We already know that elephants and other heard animals have GENETIC memory..thats passed down in the DNA
ED
nothing wrong with that...most people turn their religion into a personal belief system just that it's a totally seperate thing...well not seperate but different..Quote:
Originally posted by gemby!@19 January 2004 - 22:29
well then my religion is the * personal belief religion* <_<
Apparently so, otherwise there is no God. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik+19 January 2004 - 22:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 19 January 2004 - 22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?
ED
Let me go get my gun...then I'll shoot all the non-believers and pagans and heathens so that they too can appreciate what it feels like to get shot!! It will be a God-like lesson for them!!
I have always wanted a t-shirt that said
"I Kill For God..Don't worry as long as you truly believe your souls will go to Him"
ED
Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.
I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.
I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.
If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.
I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.
Forgive my memory Jpol, but does this God require one to follow a specific religion and what do you mean about the after-life. Is there a physical heavan (where one can experience pleasure and peace) and a physical hell (where you can experience pain) or do you see the "afterlife" as something you will figure out once you cross-over.
Are there repercussions for our actions and choice of faith. Our pagan forefathers who scarificed virgins to appease their Gods, are they all doomed for killing?
As I recall, your choice of Catholicism was not because it is the "correct" religion, but rather it provides a set of rules you feel encourages harmony. What God actually is or desires is not known to any man.
hobbes
Forgive me, I mean no offence.
I really do not wish to discuss this matter at any great length here and now. I simply wanted to give Jonno some concept of the basic underlying principals of what I believe in. The evolving minutiae can be for another day.
I think it is fair to say that you are aware I will give a reasonable shout at arguing most things, even if it gets fairly heated. However I have had enough Catholic bashing for the moment and really do not want to get involved in it just now.
Particularly as it is often no more than unsubtle trolling. (The bashing that is, not the Catholicism, tho' I see your point). It seems that the Catholic faith is fair game for abuse that would not be tolerated were it aimed at others. However that is probably just my natural Papist paranoia.
I will however say that, in my opinion choice of a specific flavour of Christianity probably boils down to how comfortable one is with the dogma. As long as the decision is one of good conscience, rather of convenience.
Ok, I was just curious what you envisioned the after life to be. You know, when you wake up at 4:00am and the wife is asleep next to you. As you watch her breathe, what do you envision awaiting you?
I see nothing.
As for Catholic bashing, I have an appreciation of your exhaustion, after all, I am American. I'm lucky to survive a few posts without a volley of cheap shots sent my way.
note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it's all I can do to make a coherent offering.
Apparently so, otherwise there is no God. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik+19 January 2004 - 22:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spindulik @ 19 January 2004 - 22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?
ED
where exactly did i say that?
95% of war was caused by Religion?
I disagree.
It is caused by Satan.
The Satan is involve in all wars and religions.
As for shooting your self in the foot, i would prefer it if you didn't but i don't know gods will, if you do the it was mean't to happen for some reason. I'm not saying that shooting yourself is good or that if there is a reason for you to do so that it is nice for you, i am just saying, how are we as humans supposed to understand what god intends.
evildon i mean't no offence i was just trying to explain that there is a lesson to be learnt or something to be gained for every situation.Quote:
I already know how prescious life is....
hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
I tend to agree with Lamsey and J'Pol.
Religion is often a cloak adopted to cover naked tribalism.
The twisted acts carried out in the name of religion are more often at a personal level such as the tortures and murders carried out in the name of witch hunts, pogroms and ideological struggles (common to most faiths). Individuals, often with serious personality problems, play on the fears of others to twist words to their own ends or sometimes their fanatically held insanities.
I have no problem with Faith. I have noted that those who are at peace with their God (whoever and whatever they may perceive he or she to be) rarely have problems sharing communion with those of a differing faith. Those who demand you believe exactly as they do are a vexation to the spirit. imho
I sincerely hope that you will return to your ironic, humourous best in the very near future.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 01:54
note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it's all I can do to make a coherent offering.
Can I suggest large quantities of fluids, ascorbic acid and rest may be just the ticket.
Or Lemsip Max Cold / Flu remedy, I always find that helps, paricularly with congestion problems.
Take Care of yourself, it doesn't make you a bad person.
Please stop being so bloody eloquent.Quote:
Originally posted by Biggles@20 January 2004 - 02:11
I tend to agree with Lamsey and J'Pol.
Religion is often a cloak adopted to cover naked tribalism.
The twisted acts carried out in the name of religion are more often at a personal level such as the tortures and murders carried out in the name of witch hunts, pogroms and ideological struggles (common to most faiths). Individuals, often with serious personality problems, play on the fears of others to twist words to their own ends or sometimes their fanatically held insanities.
I have no problem with Faith. I have noted that those who are at peace with their God (whoever and whatever they may perceive he or she to be) rarely have problems sharing communion with those of a differing faith. Those who demand you believe exactly as they do are a vexation to the spirit. imho
It is annoying to the mere mortals around you.
I sincerely hope that you will return to your ironic, humourous best in the very near future.Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol+20 January 2004 - 01:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J'Pol @ 20 January 2004 - 01:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 01:54
note: out of character there is no irony, humor, or double entendres above, with this damn cold, it's all I can do to make a coherent offering.
Can I suggest large quantities of fluids, ascorbic acid and rest may be just the ticket.
Or Lemsip Max Cold / Flu remedy, I always find that helps, paricularly with congestion problems.
Take Care of yourself, it doesn't make you a bad person. [/b][/quote]
Try boiling chopped ginger root to then drink it. It heats up your body so you can sweat the cold out.
I used to believe in re-incarnation, however that was in a previous life.Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 02:10
hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
I'll get me coat.
Sorry J'Pol
I will get me coat. Have to chase the kids to bed anyhoo so that will get my feet back on the ground.
Why are you both getting your coats, are they that nice, if so where did you buy them?
Any organised religion is an attempt by people to explain and rationalise the unknown, give hope and to provide an exclusive 'club' for its members.
If we can all agree that human beings exercise at least some modicum of free will (even allowing for brainwashing, indoctrination, brutalisation, fear...etc, etc) then the choice of religion whether it is one's own or an ancestors is just that...a choice.
If one believes that God
(please insert own deity here...........................................................................)
gave humans free will... then our choice of religion (or not) can be seen as an act of belief!
(But I guess that might be stretching things a little :D )
yer i would have said ...............................Quote:
Originally posted by sara5564@20 January 2004 - 01:31
...........................................................................)
(But I guess that might be stretching things a little :D )
:lol:
Just to make this thread more relevant witch hunts were carred out only because the people in power didn't understand the witches, the were the 'unknown'.
Not really that relevant at all... oh well. :sadwalk:
I have found it interesting to research the way that certain religions have come about.
Example:
Nation Of Islam
I had some acquaintances in this so called "religion". Some things of note:
They believe Allah returned in America under the name Master Faraad Muhammed.
They believe all white people are devils.
They believe the devils name is Yacub. He created whites from deficient black genes and mixed it with animals. The rationale was that this is the reason that when whites sweat it smells of dog and they have very little backside (arse).
They believe the old white "tribes" started in the Caucus mountains hence the name Caucasian.
They believe whites, when they gained power, eliminated much of this "tribal" history. One asked me why are there African tribes and no history of Caucasian ones. :lol:
Elijah Muhammed (I forgot his original name) was converted when Master Faraad did some trick with his hair, splitting it water.
Master Faraard, oddly enough, wasn't even black. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
When you hear this sort of shit it makes you wonder how the hell anyone believes it.
Oddly enough there is no scripture in the Qu'ran that backs this up. :lol: :lol:
What a joke.
I have gone through their own writings of their religion. I have done this with many others like Catholism, White Christian Soldiers, Jehovah's Witness', etc. I've researched why, in certain religions, they wear the garb that they wear, use certain symbols and what they "really" stand for. I've researched why certain religions are "semi-controlled" en masse by smaller groups of individuals who are and always have been corrupt. I've researched the Christmas holiday and how it really came about.
Most people subscribe to a particular religion because it's all they've ever known.
It's comfortable.
Research some of the underpinnings of a given religion. It may open your eyes.
Or like many, close them. ;)
edit: Left one interesting note...in the Nation of Islam..Yacub was black :lol: :lol:
I was rude once, does that make me a "devil"?
My Saudi co-worker told me that true Islamic people have no relation to American black people calling themselves "the Nation of Islam".
Yes but that doesnt mean that the grass after being eaten by the cow and turned into energy and the deposited out remember that it was once grass...Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@19 January 2004 - 23:01
Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.
I could be a caniabal and eat someone thereby converting them to energy for my body...doesnt mean that said energy remains sentient..and some amount is transformed into a by-product....
ED
Exactly!!!Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:31
I was rude once, does that make me a "devil"?
My Saudi co-worker told me that true Islamic people have not relation to American black people from calling themselves "the Nation of Islam".
The "religion" is a joke. My uncle is a real Muslim and at the time that I studied Islam, he told me to stay clear of them.
Unfortunately, I know of similiar weirdness in other religions. Nation Of Islam was the easiest example to use due the probability of no one here being of that religion.
Yes but that doesnt mean that the grass after being eaten by the cow and turned into energy and the deposited out remember that it was once grass...Quote:
Originally posted by evildon+20 January 2004 - 06:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evildon @ 20 January 2004 - 06:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@19 January 2004 - 23:01
Remember energy is not created or destroyed; just transferred.
I could be a caniabal and eat someone thereby converting them to energy for my body...doesnt mean that said energy remains sentient..and some amount is transformed into a by-product....
ED [/b][/quote]
uh...no
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
It's because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY!!! :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
It's because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY!!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman+20 January 2004 - 06:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 20 January 2004 - 06:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
Well, that does make sense.
If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better?
Ever seen Minority Report?Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol@20 January 2004 - 00:04
I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.
I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.
If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.
I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.
Two main things keep us from having tru FREE WILL..
1.Emotions:They cloud our judgement...we even have phrases for it...Seeing red..flying off the handle.loosing control....we do things under the influence of our hind brain(it's where our instincts and most of our more primal stuff come from) then we would normally do...Thats how alchol works...The vulcans on ST know this...it's common sense...just like if I had jury duty and my girlfriend was on trial...there is no way that I could shut down enuf of my prima emotion brain to be impartial and make the "right" choice...
Thats what Bhudda (SP!) was all about..being at peace and as one with onesself..(sp!)
He was approached about the sin of lust and asked about seeing a naked girl that she shouldnt show her body and stay covered..he disagreed..he said that the sin is in letting your emotions exsist..that you should be able to look at the most desireous girl in the world and not become arroused..not fight it but be able to turn it off like a light switch..that was one of his tests to see if you were on the road to becoming enlightened..at one with the universe...also you were spose to be in such control of your body u could stop your heart..things like thatHe thought to have true free will you would have to have complete mastery over...well YOU...no part of you should be able to make you do what you dont want to do...I have yaken Pysche classes..and let me tell you..your subconcious and your ego and your Id..are really powerful and sneaky bastards....Hell Pyche proffessors have found out that something as simple as a color of an object can influence our mood...(hospitals studied this so they would know what color to paint their walls) or a buying impulse...Hell they lay out shopping centers and stores based on choices that you dont even know you are making..!We make choices on automatic all the time..subconsiously withour ANY true higher thinking...
2.This is where Minority report comes in
You would hafta know the true outcome of all the choices before you...If I go to bed now..and take some cold medicine will I sleep thru the fire that burns my house down...? since i dont know my house is gonna burn down then I cant really choose....Fate and Luck kills Free Will Everytime...Not enuf
data or control to override those two forces...
ED
Well, that does make sense.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes+20 January 2004 - 06:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 20 January 2004 - 06:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
Quote:
@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
It's because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY!!! :lol: :lol:
If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better? [/b][/quote]
Yeah but in the winter........back to evilness. ;)
I didnt know mormons were racist :lol: Do they think all black people are devils or something stupid like that?
Yeah but in the winter........back to evilness. ;)[/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman+20 January 2004 - 06:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 20 January 2004 - 06:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 06:53
Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
Quote:
Quote:
@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
It's because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY!!! :lol: :lol:
Well, that does make sense.
If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better?
Kind of interesting thought that tanning machines are here to conquer evil. Most people think that they are extensions of vanity, but I view them as a vehicle to keep my soul pure.
Interesting then.......what the hell is Michael Jackson? :lol: :lol:
What about those with leukoderma? They are in constant flux with themselves. :lol:
Cure illnesses whats the point?..well fine but he did at one time..according to the Bible he meddled like Hell...with angels and voices and burning bushes...and Jesus cured people left and right why? If they serve some higher purpose why didnt Jesus just say "Hey this is meant to test your strenght..God has truly blessed you with a way for you to show Him how strong your faith in Him is..."Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol@20 January 2004 - 00:04
I believe there is one God. I believe there is an after-life.
I believe that God does not interfere in our decisions because that is the deal, he gives individuals freedom to chose. He gives the whole of humanity freedom to chose what it does.
If he interfered to sort things out, or cure the illnesses, what would be the point. If you have children you let them learn how to deal with things themselves, by their own mistakes. You watch over them, but you must also allow the to grow.
I believe that wars fought over religion is merely an excuse. They would have been fought anyway, that was just a convenient reason.
makes no sense....
Umm....hate to say this but God told David(among others) to go to War in the Bible...So youd havta believe that some wars are because of gods will...which ones? Who knows...
just saying if we are God's kids..and he is our father..If we did our kids like he does us..we'd be arrested...
Human services to God:Hey Mister your kids..there out there killing each other..
God:yeah..I know..I keep telling them Not To..But they won't Listen...
HS:Can't you do more than that?
God:Well i sent my trly Begotten Son out there to tell them....but they killed him...Of course I raised him...so thats ok
Hs:You know that they are walking around and jsut making a mess everywhere to right?(pollution)
God:Yes...They can be a handful...but I believe that since I have also created cancer and flu and ebola and all kindsa other nasty things to kill and hurt them indescriminately that it should teach them a lesson....
Hs:..
Ed
where exactly did i say that? [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+20 January 2004 - 00:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 20 January 2004 - 00:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@19 January 2004 - 22:40
<!--QuoteBegin-evildon
Quote:
@19 January 2004 - 18:31
...should we all shoot ourself in the foot so we can appreciate what it feels like to get shot? Is that Gods logic?
ED
Apparently so, otherwise there is no God.
When you said that 911 was a lesseon to teach us how prescious life is....I dont need to see 4000 people die on TV to kow how precious life is..I dont need my foot blown off(random over the top example) to know how presious my foot is...same logic progression..
ED
none taken...I just dont see how 911 could be some lesson..if its to tech me that Ishould escape the pain and suffeing of this world as in the post i responded to..the Christians should be killing themselves left and right..no thats a sin..so..a tru christian should become a serial killer and go around killind christians..and bear the sins of all that death knowing that he sent their souls on to heaven..thats logical..Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@20 January 2004 - 01:10
As for shooting your self in the foot, i would prefer it if you didn't but i don't know gods will, if you do the it was mean't to happen for some reason. I'm not saying that shooting yourself is good or that if there is a reason for you to do so that it is nice for you, i am just saying, how are we as humans supposed to understand what god intends.
evildon i mean't no offence i was just trying to explain that there is a lesson to be learnt or something to be gained for every situation.Quote:
I already know how prescious life is....
hobbes what aspect of reincarnation are you interested in, i can explain the buddhist persective if you like.
The Killer would stalk the people make sure they were christian...then subdue them..using some type of nerve drug..ask them if they have accepted Jesus as their tru lord and savior..have them ask for forgivness of all their sins.....then kill them humanely with an insulin overdose....They go to god...then in the end after all the christians are dead..The killer could beg for forgivness on his deathbed..it would be sincere not contrite if he ACTUALLY beleved that they were going to heaven...so hed go to heaven to...if god is real and thats how u get to heaven then it would work...no more pain...of course one couldnt do it..it take some cult..
so I dont think suffering teaches any kind of useful lesson...except there is random death and pain...no higher purpose to suffering...that i can see..
Amen me tooQuote:
Originally posted by hobbes@20 January 2004 - 05:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
Well, that does make sense.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes+20 January 2004 - 05:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 20 January 2004 - 05:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@20 January 2004 - 06:50
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
Quote:
@20 January 2004 - 06:45
God, whomever you are, please forgive me my typos this night, and make me well!
It's because you are evil hobbes..EVIL I SAY!!! :lol: :lol:
If I get a nice tan, will that purify my corrupted white soul and make me better? [/b][/quote]
Can I be an Evil Minion!!!!PLLLLEEEEASE!!!!
Not a lacky.....or a sidekick mind you..I am not worthy of that..just a minion...
ED
Brought up as a "christian" untill i was old enough to make my own mind up about what i wanted to think.
Then became a "child of god" (roflmfao) for about 1 year - brainwashers annonymous.
Was a member of the mormon church for over 6 years - became an elder even - brainwashers annonymous 2.
I guess some of these start out with good enough intentions, but then something/someone changes all that....
Don't give a flying fart anymore... i just live as i wish and TRY to be as good as i possibly can - difficult here though, so if there IS a hell, then i'm certainly gonna be there - if there IS a heaven, then it will remain on my list of places: "aint gotta rats ass chance of ever going there"
I'll listen to anyone who knocks on my door, up to the point when they tell me:
Only a certain number will go to heaven.
You cant drink coffe or tea.
I have to pay 10% of my income to the church.
I cant have sex outside of marriage.
I have to pray everynight for forgiveness.
I have to look east and bow down like a fool.
Push stupid beads through my fingers
etcetera etcetera...
Then i'll slam the door B)
Peace
UKMan